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post #181 of 2774 Old 10-23-2005, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeBloggz View Post

I'm not sure what type of "calibration" BB is offering but it can't be good. Proper calibration involves a certified ISF technician and expensive equipment, niether of which BB has. Most video savvy people on this forum are pretty good with AVIA and/or DVE. Your better off using the settings posted in this thread by other members and go from there. I willing to bet, its better than relying on BB to do it for you.

Thought calbritating the tV from inside is better from the menu! but man each equipment is diffenerent than the other. il take ur advice and see wat happens
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post #182 of 2774 Old 10-23-2005, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Kbadone View Post

Thought calbritating the tV from inside is better from the menu! but man each equipment is diffenerent than the other. il take ur advice and see wat happens

It is better. Calibration through the service menu by a certified ISF technician is the best you can get. I doubt BB has anyone who is an experienced ISF technician. Just make sure if anyone goes into the Service menu on your TV, that they are certified to do so(ISF). It is very easy to damage your TV in the service menu if you dont know what your doing(hit the wrong button, etc)

Denon AVR-X2000------>Def Tech PM1000's------>Def Tech PC2000------->Sub(TBD)
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post #183 of 2774 Old 10-23-2005, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Dark Rain View Post

0005 may be pushing green a bit. When I quickly tested it with DVE it appeared to be depressing green but I could have been wrong. Someone with AVIA should test it since it's a better tool at calibrating color. 0005 pushes red but not as bad as the default color decoding. For now 0002 seems optimum.

I think to get the A10 closer to perfect is to get the grayscale calibrated on it. It can be done by eye, but having a professional do it with proper equipment is the best and most accurate way.

Anyone using the 003b setting? I don't get any red or green push (or pull) when using the Avia color decoder check. The 0002 setting results in about -20% green on my set.
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post #184 of 2774 Old 10-24-2005, 01:13 AM
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Originally Posted by dopper View Post

Anyone using the 003b setting? I don't get any red or green push (or pull) when using the Avia color decoder check. The 0002 setting results in about -20% green on my set.

Interesting! I may have to give this a shot. I used the INHD tune-up for color comparison and 0002 did look the best to me. Of course that is sort of arbitrary as the naked eye is not always on point and vary from person to person. It's nice to have a number value on it(-20%). Is 003b quite a way back toward 0046? halfway? The variation between these values seems huge

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post #185 of 2774 Old 10-24-2005, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dopper View Post

Anyone using the 003b setting? I don't get any red or green push (or pull) when using the Avia color decoder check. The 0002 setting results in about -20% green on my set.

If 0002 is minus on green, why do face tones start looking greenish at times using it? Keep us posted on the 003b setting, particularly how flesh tones look. I am still using 0005 with decent results. When I go back to the untweaked vivid mode (with only the color dialed down to 35 or so) it looks pretty bad after getting used to seeing the red push dialed back.
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post #186 of 2774 Old 10-25-2005, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by scottsol View Post

Thinking I was being clever, I decided to do a grey scale calibration with the iris fully open to get faster and more accurate readings. The result was that in Warm 2 there was nothing worth calibrating. The set was very close to D65 through the entire brightness range.

After switching the iris to 1 the grey scale was noticably off- plus red and minus green. On the other hand Warm 1 was still too blue even with the "redder" iris setting. So the iris is is not just changing overall brightness level and you can't just open up the iris for bright room veiwing and expect great results.

I'm still a little new at this stuff so bear with me. If turning the iris open all the way gives you great grey scale then why not start there and then adjust brightness and contrast to get better blacks. ( I keep the advanced Iris on LOW). All I have to check the gray scale is a THX dvd and with the Iris on max and the brightness adjusted I think the PQ is pretty good. I still am having a hard time understanding this Iris thing on this TV. I say Why not let the light in and then turn down the brightness. For me It seams that the picture is really good . The blacks look good and the whites are as white as can be . The colors seam to be more true with the Iris at max. I think someone said that closing the Iris affected colors so why do it ? Maybe I'm way off base here but I'm just trying to figure this out and maybe someone can try this and see what they think.
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post #187 of 2774 Old 10-25-2005, 12:14 PM
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Me too, Postal! What you say makes sense - I'm going to try the iris open, because the only thing I don't like about the A10 is the blacks.
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post #188 of 2774 Old 10-25-2005, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by mcskid View Post

Me too, Postal! What you say makes sense - I'm going to try the iris open, because the only thing I don't like about the A10 is the blacks.

The only problem is I don't think you can get good blacks with the iris fully open. The reason they put the iris on the tv in the first place was to reduce the light output of the TV in order to improve black levels. I usually have the iris at MIN, or 1 for dark room viewing. It is way too bright for my taste set any higher than that for viewing in a darkened room.
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post #189 of 2774 Old 10-25-2005, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by AlanBuck View Post

The only problem is I don't think you can get good blacks with the iris fully open. The reason they put the iris on the tv in the first place was to reduce the light output of the TV in order to improve black levels. I usually have the iris at MIN, or 1 for dark room viewing. It is way too bright for my taste set any higher than that for viewing in a darkened room.

2 during the day, 1 at night. Anything higher is too bright IMO; if black letterbox bars aren't black, it's too damn bright.

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post #190 of 2774 Old 10-25-2005, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by aronparsons View Post

2 during the day, 1 at night. Anything higher is too bright IMO; if black letterbox bars aren't black, it's too damn bright.


I agree...and even with the iris at MIN, or 1 the black bars still are not true inky black. But they look a LOT better than the GWIII and IV did in a darkened room.
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post #191 of 2774 Old 10-25-2005, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by aronparsons View Post

2 during the day, 1 at night. Anything higher is too bright IMO; if black letterbox bars aren't black, it's too damn bright.

Can turning down the Brightness level get you black bars also ???
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post #192 of 2774 Old 10-25-2005, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by AlanBuck View Post

I agree...and even with the iris at MIN, or 1 the black bars still are not true inky black. But they look a LOT better than the GWIII and IV did in a darkened room.

True, they're not "ink" black, but pretty close. They're good enough though. I'm happy when the video fades out and it's indistinguishable between the black bars and the black video. That relies on the DVD player outputting "true black" as well (which my S70H does).

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post #193 of 2774 Old 10-25-2005, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Postal1 View Post

Can turning down the Brightness level get you black bars also ???

There might be multiple ways to accomplish the same black levels (between the iris and brightness). It's just like the dance you do adjusting all the settings while calibrating the TV.

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post #194 of 2774 Old 10-25-2005, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by aronparsons View Post

There might be multiple ways to accomplish the same black levels (between the iris and brightness). It's just like the dance you do adjusting all the settings while calibrating the TV.

I guess I just thought when Scottsol posted that closing the Iris affected the gray scale color wise, then why bother closing it at all ? I guess in my way of thinking it would be like getting new stained glass windows and then not letting all the sunlight thru by putting up tinted sunscreen glass on the outside. If closing the Iris affects color push or pull then I'll just open'r up and see how well I can get things to look. Theres almost to many things to adjust, something has to be constant. Maybe someone with the right setup dvds can try this and get back to us.
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post #195 of 2774 Old 10-25-2005, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Postal1 View Post

I guess I just thought when Scottsol posted that closing the Iris affected the gray scale color wise, then why bother closing it at all ? I guess in my way of thinking it would be like getting new stained glass windows and then not letting all the sunlight thru by putting up tinted sunscreen glass on the outside. If closing the Iris affects color push or pull then I'll just open'r up and see how well I can get things to look. Theres almost to many things to adjust, something has to be constant. Maybe someone with the right setup dvds can try this and get back to us.

Maybe someone who got a professional calibration could tell (or hint) at what changes were made. Or is there some sort of agreement not to share that information?

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post #196 of 2774 Old 10-25-2005, 02:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Postal1 View Post

Can turning down the Brightness level get you black bars also ???

No. Turning down the brightness has no affect on black bars, only the iris does.

- John
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post #197 of 2774 Old 10-26-2005, 06:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dopper View Post

Anyone using the 003b setting? I don't get any red or green push (or pull) when using the Avia color decoder check. The 0002 setting results in about -20% green on my set.

Thanks for the tip. I tried 003B last night, and was pretty impressed. It looks to have some mild red push at times (mainly when bright red objects are in the scene), but skin tones look better than any other setting I have tried, including the original factory setting. I think you are on to a good compromise here, and it seems your Avia test is backing this up. I certainly prefer this setting over any other that I have used so far. To MY eye on MY tv 0005 is the next best, followed by 0002 (not enough red in skin tones for my taste), and lastly the relatively dreadful 0046 orginal setting where everyone looks sunburned, and red objects are glowing unaturally. I also tried 003E and flipped back and forth to 003B. 003E tones the reds down a tad versus 003B, and people who are bothered by reds should try that setting also.
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post #198 of 2774 Old 10-27-2005, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Postal1 View Post

I'm still a little new at this stuff so bear with me. If turning the iris open all the way gives you great grey scale then why not start there and then adjust brightness and contrast to get better blacks. ( I keep the advanced Iris on LOW). All I have to check the gray scale is a THX dvd and with the Iris on max and the brightness adjusted I think the PQ is pretty good. I still am having a hard time understanding this Iris thing on this TV. I say Why not let the light in and then turn down the brightness. For me It seams that the picture is really good . The blacks look good and the whites are as white as can be . The colors seam to be more true with the Iris at max. I think someone said that closing the Iris affected colors so why do it ? Maybe I'm way off base here but I'm just trying to figure this out and maybe someone can try this and see what they think.

I messed around some more last night, and discovered that the advanced iris is indeed messing with colors. I used Seabiscuit that I recorded on my DVR. When the camera pans to a new scene, I can catch facial tones starting out looking a bit red, then as the iris adjusts, the faces quickly take on a greenish cast. This is evidence that the iris is messing with the grey scale. I have a feeling that Sony dialed in a lot of red push to cover up this issue, and avoid greenish faces. I tried a few other tweaks last nite and this morning that seem to help the overall PQ. First I went back to the 0002 setting that a lot of people seem to like, to see what I can do with it. In a bright room, try turning advanced iris to OFF, put color at about 38-40, and then the face tones are more consistent, and avoid the greenish casts, even if you set the fixed iris to 2 or 3. In a dark room I feel we still need the advanced iris set to LOW to avoid glowing blacks. I found that setting live color to LOW (I keep it off for daytime viewing), and backing the color down to about 30 gives nice flesh tones, and avoids the greenish casts in them. It pushes red a bit doing this, but still looks a lot better than the original factory setup. There are endless combinations to try on these TV's for sure. The iris helps in some ways, but is adding other issues too. As others have said, the other problem is huge variablity in the source material also. With the right adjustments for room lighting, and source quality this TV can really look amazing though.
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post #199 of 2774 Old 10-27-2005, 08:40 PM
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I gave 003B a try for the CHAXIS setting tonight and I think it's a good choice. There is a bit more red but the green level is much better. I just tweaked with DVE on multiple sources (S70H, Xbox, PS2) and I was happy with the colors. I have my color setting around 47.

It's not a dramatic difference and I'll need to give some time (with some HD source, couldn't find anything I was familiar with). I never gave 0005 a try, but I think 003B might be the best for now. 003E put too much red/orange into the yellows.

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post #200 of 2774 Old 10-30-2005, 12:47 PM
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Just hooked up the direct tv hd dvr last nite, the hd channels are awesome, the regular channels look like pure trash, seems to be worse than my regular direct box from before. i set the the hd receiver to 1080i, i did read where u should set it to tv's native 720p, but the when in 720p still lines(like in direct tv menus) quiver like crazy... any suggestions
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post #201 of 2774 Old 10-31-2005, 07:20 AM
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Has anyone looked for a tweak that would allow PIP? I Don't know if the A10 series is capable through SM, but noticed that on some Sony's the "ID-3" setting enables/disables PIP.
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post #202 of 2774 Old 10-31-2005, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Jimmy Thrill View Post

Just hooked up the direct tv hd dvr last nite, the hd channels are awesome, the regular channels look like pure trash, seems to be worse than my regular direct box from before. i set the the hd receiver to 1080i, i did read where u should set it to tv's native 720p, but the when in 720p still lines(like in direct tv menus) quiver like crazy... any suggestions

I set mine to Pass through..so that the TV's DRC mode will kick in on 480i signals...
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post #203 of 2774 Old 10-31-2005, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Jimmy Thrill View Post

Just hooked up the direct tv hd dvr last nite, the hd channels are awesome, the regular channels look like pure trash, seems to be worse than my regular direct box from before. i set the the hd receiver to 1080i, i did read where u should set it to tv's native 720p, but the when in 720p still lines(like in direct tv menus) quiver like crazy... any suggestions

Jimmy,

As someone else mentioned, I set my cable bnox to PASS THROUGH, so the TV will display it how it was intended to be broadcast.

Only negative is that when going between resolutions, you will have a pause as the TV converts. Even on HD since some is 720p & some 1080i. Not a big deal, but worth noting.

Also, this will alow the DR mode to kick in. Otherwise, it's disabled because the TV thinks you are pumping a HD signal on standard channels.


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post #204 of 2774 Old 10-31-2005, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by KevinXbox360 View Post

Jimmy,

As someone else mentioned, I set my cable bnox to PASS THROUGH, so the TV will display it how it was intended to be broadcast.

Only negative is that when going between resolutions, you will have a pause as the TV converts. Even on HD since some is 720p & some 1080i. Not a big deal, but worth noting.

Also, this will alow the DR mode to kick in. Otherwise, it's disabled because the TV thinks you are pumping a HD signal on standard channels.


Hey guys thanks for the input, but i cannot find a "pass thru" option on this hd receiver, i have the HR10-250, and it seems as if i read somewhere before where this receiver doesnt give that option, so when i tune to hd channels i have to manually put it to 1080i or 720p. any truth to the receiver not having that function or am i missing something
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post #205 of 2774 Old 10-31-2005, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Jimmy Thrill View Post

Hey guys thanks for the input, but i cannot find a "pass thru" option on this hd receiver, i have the HR10-250, and it seems as if i read somewhere before where this receiver doesnt give that option, so when i tune to hd channels i have to manually put it to 1080i or 720p. any truth to the receiver not having that function or am i missing something

I have an SA HDDVR 8000 myself. But you should be able to go into the settings and tell it how you want it displayed.

FIXED will display it in whatever mode you tell it and EVERYTHING will be converted to 1 resolution. PASS THROUGH lets the signal pass through the TV and lets the TV decide what to do with it.

The terminology will differ based on the manufacturer of the box though.

You shouldn't have to manually tell the TV to display HD content, there has to be something in the cable box settings. I know I had to tell the cable box when it was first installed to accept all the resolutions in a setup screen. But again each box differs.

If your cable provider can't help you, get a manual online from the manufacturer. I did that with mine just so I knew more about the DVR features, since the tech didn't explain anything to me.


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post #206 of 2774 Old 11-01-2005, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by KevinXbox360 View Post

I have an SA HDDVR 8000 myself. But you should be able to go into the settings and tell it how you want it displayed.

FIXED will display it in whatever mode you tell it and EVERYTHING will be converted to 1 resolution. PASS THROUGH lets the signal pass through the TV and lets the TV decide what to do with it.

I know with my HD DVR Box from Comcast (Motorola, can't remember the model # at work) I have the option of 480i or 480p for SD and 720p or 1080i for HD, but there's no passthrough option, so all SD will be in 480i or 480p and all HD will be in 720p or 1080i. Drive me nuts, because I would love to passthrough 720 content but let the tv convert 1080 content as its de-interlacer seems a lot better than the DVR box. So as its stands I'm forced to set the box to 1080i for all HD content, because the TV does a better job converting those to 720p than the cable box.

I need to call comcast again and see if there's another HD DVR box available to me yet.
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post #207 of 2774 Old 11-01-2005, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by smack518 View Post

I know with my HD DVR Box from Comcast (Motorola, can't remember the model # at work) I have the option of 480i or 480p for SD and 720p or 1080i for HD, but there's no passthrough option, so all SD will be in 480i or 480p and all HD will be in 720p or 1080i. Drive me nuts, because I would love to passthrough 720 content but let the tv convert 1080 content as its de-interlacer seems a lot better than the DVR box. So as its stands I'm forced to set the box to 1080i for all HD content, because the TV does a better job converting those to 720p than the cable box.

I need to call comcast again and see if there's another HD DVR box available to me yet.

One advantage to having a consitent output is that channel browsing doesn't require the TV to be flipping through different video modes. I found that annoying even with 480i content, it was just too slow. 1080i passthrough would be nice, but I'd still want the ability to pillarbox 4:3 480i content. By the way, I have the 6412 from Comcast too.

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post #208 of 2774 Old 11-01-2005, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by smack518 View Post

I need to call comcast again and see if there's another HD DVR box available to me yet.

I'm new to all these HD cable boxes myself so I don't know anything about them aside from the one I have. Good luck.

As Aaron mentioned, yeah you do have that pause when the resolutions changes, but it doesn't bother me. Mentally I like knowing that the station is being shown how it was intended to.

Actually when I upgraded/switched to HDMI last week, I still get the pause, but the screen stays black and you don't see all the crazy lines when it is changing over, so that is a plus of the HDMI on my box over the component.



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post #209 of 2774 Old 11-01-2005, 12:48 PM
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Actually when I upgraded/switched to HDMI last week, I still get the pause, but the screen stays black and you don't see all the crazy lines when it is changing over, so that is a plus of the HDMI on my box over the component.

Yeah, the pause doesn't bother me so much... a little annoying when I'm switching to something in a hurry, but I'd rather have the material being fed unconverted and deal with the pause.

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I have the 6412 from Comcast too.

Good to know, I'm not the only one. Hopefully then can offer me another option... I hear there's a SA box that's around and not so buggy.
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post #210 of 2774 Old 11-01-2005, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinXbox360 View Post

Actually when I upgraded/switched to HDMI last week, I still get the pause, but the screen stays black and you don't see all the crazy lines when it is changing over, so that is a plus of the HDMI on my box over the component.

If this is off-topic, apologies and feel free to delete, but correct me if I'm wrong, I believe the concensus was that if I'm only needing an 4-8ft cord, there's no need for me to buy a $100+ hdmi cable, that a $20-ish hdmi cable would be just as good, as its digital to digital? Obviously I'm currently using component.


(I would prefer a black screen to all that crazyness that happens now as I switch formats... all those line hurt my eyes)
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