HLR calibration made easy - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 42 Old 09-09-2005, 08:07 AM - Thread Starter
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I thought I would share some info that may help you calibrate your 1080P Samsung DLPs. After reading a number of posts, I decided to change the gamma to 0 from 2 and then set the picture to Standard and Warm2 which one poster reported was the closest to D65 based on the ISF who calibrated his display. However, with those settings, my display had a green tint to it. I then decided to enter the service menu and look at the CCA and CCA (on) menus. After a few minutes I figured out what the x, y, Y settings were for and, more importantly, where I could get the values for those settings.

I decided to downloaded a program from Babelcolor and proceeded to get the x, y, Y values for Red, Green, Blue, White, Cyan, Magenta, and Yellow for a number of different working spaces including CIF HD, NTSC, SMPTE 240M, SMPTE C, and sRGB. However, the Y values were very low compared to what the initial settings were in the Samsung, however, all Y factors seemed to be off by a factor of about 4. Then it dawned on me that Y is sampled 4 times, so I multiplied the Y by 4 to get the Y values for the CCA menu. The most important info here is that the CCA settings on the left are for STD color space and the ones in the middle with the D in front of them are for HD color space.

The person who got their TV calibrated professionally also mentioned that the Cyan setting was way off and the Magenta setting was also off by a good margin with yellow only being slightly off. When I looked at the values I got for Cyan, Magenta and Yellow from the software and compared them to the values in the Samsung that is exactly what I found.

I cant tell you that this will make your display 100% calibrated, but I can say that when I compare the colors on my HLR to the HLN that I had calibrated professionally they look nearly identical if not identical. I can now say that I am completly happy with my Samsung, at least until I have to call for service. I have attached an excel file with the x,y,Y coordinates for various work spaces. Hope this helps you DIY tweakers.

 

Color Settings.zip 3.4609375k . file
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post #2 of 42 Old 09-09-2005, 10:33 AM
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Hmmm . . . just to trying to understand this a bit better . . .

For example, in the SM, we have the following settings:

Red-x 639
Red-y 354
Red-Y 121
DRedX 640
DRedY 340

So based on your table, I would change these to

Red-x 640
Red-y 330
Red-Y 85
DRedX 640
DRedY 330

Does that sound right?
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post #3 of 42 Old 09-09-2005, 11:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes, that is correct. I used the 601 and 709 spaces for mine.
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post #4 of 42 Old 09-09-2005, 11:43 AM
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This is a good time to jump in to remind people to only go through your service menu if you are very comfortable with it, and to write down the original settings as a "just in case".
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post #5 of 42 Old 09-09-2005, 11:48 AM - Thread Starter
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That's a good point. If you don't know what a setting does or means leave it alone. Also, it may be easier to use a digital camera and take a picture of each screen so that you can see what the input is as well as the original setting values.
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post #6 of 42 Old 09-09-2005, 12:03 PM
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Acourvil how did you get the numbers from the worksheet?

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post #7 of 42 Old 09-09-2005, 01:55 PM
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Ignore the decimal points for x and y (i.e., x1000) and use the adjusted Y (Y Samsung)
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post #8 of 42 Old 09-09-2005, 02:25 PM
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would this be applicable to the HLP sets too?
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post #9 of 42 Old 09-09-2005, 03:31 PM
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Another improvement is the actuator gain setting. Mine was off by a lot. Use the #2 pattern with your face close to the screen to eliminate the jagged edges. Much better result then using pattern #1's 4 colored crosses. Could never get the blue one right. This really helped the sharpness.
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post #10 of 42 Old 09-09-2005, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AkaStp
Someone is bound to ask how to get into the SM. Here it is...

Here's how you get into the Service Menu (SM)
Starting with your TV turned off...
Press Mute, 1, 8, 2, Power on the remote
To exit the SM restart the TV (or try Power, Power)

You can also do it with your TV already turned on.
First make sure that Melody is turned off
Press Power, Mute, 1, 8, 2, Power on the remote
To exit the SM restart the TV (or try Power, Power)

WARNING: ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK!

WARNING: Don't change anything that you don't fully understand.

WARNING: There is NO undo feature and there is NO ability to reset back to original settings. So make note of the settings. Better still, take digital photos.

WARNING: Be careful which buttons you press while in the SM menus as the arrow keys can change the currently selected setting and you may not be aware of that happening.

Great post. I wonder if someone published a do-it-yourself heart surgery guide how many would feel an inclination to operate. Qualified calibrators spend many years perfecting their craft and not a one would ever say they still don't make mistakes :rolleyes:
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post #11 of 42 Old 09-09-2005, 03:55 PM
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I, for one, am very happy to just stick with the basic adjustments (contrast, brightness, etc) and have no desire to make changes in the service menu. It's too easy to really screw things up in there!
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post #12 of 42 Old 09-09-2005, 03:57 PM
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I would rather get the set professionally calibrated. Eliab did an excellent job yesterday.
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post #13 of 42 Old 09-09-2005, 04:27 PM
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Yeah, I would rathe rhave mine professionaly calibrated also, but it may not be so easy. i live in Central Illinois and there is nobody local that i can find that has any experience with this set. i contacted Lion Audio Video Consultants, and while they will be doing a midwest tour, it will cost me $500 for a calibration (with travel costs). that's more than I wanted to pay... However I do understand why it costs that much and believe it or not, I am still considerig it.
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post #14 of 42 Old 09-09-2005, 04:31 PM
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eruji,
There are threads on the service menu codes for the HLP models. You should be able to find them pretty easy with a search.
I stress, again, you really shouldn't attempt anything in the service menu unless you are very comfortable, or accustomed to service menu level changes. The service menu was designed for servicers, so it is not exactly user friendly. It assumes you know what you are doing, so there are no safety features. If you change something it is changed. Use extreme caution, and always copy the initial settings down. I liked the idea about the digi pics of the screen.

Pardon me for repeating myself. I just don't want to see anyone having trouble with their brand new DLP set, because they didn't know.
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post #15 of 42 Old 09-09-2005, 05:01 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't think that I said that you shouldn't get the TV professionally calibrated, I said that by doing a little leg work and using some of my knowledge of Samsungs product, I was able to calibrate my HLR using the various coordinates of 2 workspaces so close to my HLN that I spent $400 on getting professionally calibrated.

Also, if someone did get it calibrated why don't they post the values to see how close they are to the SMPTE C and sRGB values. Perhaps Samsung has found a way to calibrate the TV by using workspace values based on feedback from ISF people.

All I can tell you is what I did and how it compare to one that I spent the money to get calibrated. BTW, using the blue, green and red filters with Avia and DVE test patterns yields close to perfect decoding of primary colors.

Finally, has any one thought about the fact that all 6178 displays have the same chip, bulb, ballast, digital board, screen etc, but not the same color values because they are done by hand. And that perhaps, just perhaps the processor and software in the display can recreate the SMPTE C and sRGB colors when the coordinates are entered correctly and not by somebody in some factory randomly? I guess that would be too easy for some, but I don't care at this moment because my display looks great
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post #16 of 42 Old 09-09-2005, 06:56 PM
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Dumb question probably, but how do you save the values that are changed in the SM? I've made some changes but each time the tv is turned off and back on, it has reverted to the factory settings.
Thanks.
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post #17 of 42 Old 09-09-2005, 08:22 PM
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Datacolor has a calibration system, SpyderTV, for around $250 that I saw at CEDIA. One can use this system to calibrate their own TV, DLP, LCD, LCoS and CRT.
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post #18 of 42 Old 09-09-2005, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fedreams
Datacolor has a calibration system, SpyderTV, for around $250 that I saw at CEDIA. One can use this system to calibrate their own TV, DLP, LCD, LCoS and CRT.
I have experimented with that device and you get what you pay for. It is not very accurate on some displays and very slow.
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post #19 of 42 Old 09-10-2005, 06:38 AM
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umr; interesting. I was thinking about getting that because of the price. You say it is slow and not accurate. What displays is it inaccurate and when is it slow?

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Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way. If you like Wi-Fi so much, OTA fits right in. After all, it is wireless.
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post #20 of 42 Old 09-10-2005, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce
umr; interesting. I was thinking about getting that because of the price. You say it is slow and not accurate. What displays is it inaccurate and when is it slow?
It is slow on everything. It takes at least 4 seconds to read anything which is way slower than my Eye-One Pro at about 1 second. The accuracy is variable and not predictable. Some displays it will read D65 well like my B&W D65 CRT and others like my LCoS display it is way off. Primaries and secondaries are the same. Sometimes they are pretty close and other times not. You might get lucky and it would read your display pretty well and you might not. This is typical pod performance.

The light level measurement is not accurate when screen gain is present and its low light sensitivity seems no better than my Eye-One Pro. It is also not capable of reading illumination levels which is useful on front projectors.

Plastic filter based colorimeters usually drift pretty severly in less than a year because of water entering the filter. I have not had this one long enough though to see if it suffers this problem as well. I would assume this is a throw away device after about 6 months unless you have some way to check its accuracy. I use a new Sony PVM-96 B&W D65 monitor for this purpose along with a standard white tile for my Eye-One Pro.

A device like this might get you in the ballpark on color, but you may not be close enough to be able to get the full benefit of a properly calibrated display.
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post #21 of 42 Old 09-10-2005, 07:19 AM
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This just came out a month ago correct?
How much is this Eye-One Pro?

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post #22 of 42 Old 09-10-2005, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce
This just came out a month ago correct?
How much is this Eye-One Pro?
I don't know the exact release date, but a month sounds correct.

AVS does not like us discussing prices here. I will PM you this info.
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post #23 of 42 Old 09-11-2005, 11:12 AM
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bearcatmba, I'm trying to understand you spreadsheet and the relationship to the SM items in CCA and Cinema CCA. I tweaked my HLN a couple of years ago to near perfection and recently purchased a HLR but these menus are a bit different.

I am fully aware of the trouble you can create in in SM and have full backups of the system's defaults... so no warnings please.

When I open the CCA menu I see the various values and like you said, the values for Cyan and Magenta appear to be WAY off from the spreadsheet.

My question is which of the 4 tables in the spreadsheet are you using to tweak the Main CCA menu for standard and HD and/or Cinema CCA (all HD maybe?) and why? Seems you could apply two different graphs to either one - I mean you've got HDTV, NTSC and CCIR 601 and 709. I can't say I understand the exact differences in the color plots but I can definately see the differencs in the table and know they will push the colors in different spaces.

I also got tired of the system switching back into WARM 1.. so i swapped the WARM 1 and WARM 2 values in CCA...

So which tables are you applying to which CCA menus and why would be helpful.
Thanks, Vincent
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post #24 of 42 Old 09-11-2005, 03:10 PM - Thread Starter
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went over my settings again last night and used the SMPTE C setting for all of the cca's.

So for Red X and DRed X I have the same value as well as the valuei n the CCA (on) menu. It seems as if the Samsung automatically converts the SD to HD because my HD signals look perfect. If you look at the initial settings in the Samsung, they are also the same value for Red X and D Red X. I also used Avia and it's color saturation test to adjusted Cyan, Magenta and Yellow to get the patterns to be perfect. For the most part, the only one that change significantly was Magenta which I now have at about half the distant between my original samsung value and the SMPTE C value (like 330 for X and 170 for Y). Yellow was ok and Cyan was a little off. I got perfect tint an hue based on the test and the filters.

Hope this helps.
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post #25 of 42 Old 09-11-2005, 07:14 PM
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Hmm.. my initial settings for Red-x and DRedx are not the same.. as are none of the others... For instance, Red-x = 636, DRedX=640, Red-y = 355, DRedY=340. See attached file for the defaults on my HLR. I'll compare the settings to the SMPTE C values and see how it looks. Thanks! Vincent
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post #26 of 42 Old 09-12-2005, 09:22 AM - Thread Starter
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That's wierd. My setting were the same on the X and the D. I have heard that they are calibrated at the factory by sight and if true could mean that people are simply not going to have the same settings.

I will say this. I have already had my DMD and digital board replaced (worked for 3 hours before the blinking lights) and Samsung had to get the replacement boards from Korea so nobody had touched the settings until I went in
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post #27 of 42 Old 09-12-2005, 09:35 AM
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I posted this in another thread and thought you guys may find it useful. I think this is the easiest way to calibrate colors on our sets. i have an HLP, you guys have an HLR-the SM should be almost the same setup though.

Grab your favorite dvd with a THX Optimizer on it or your favorite calibration disk. Go to screen where it has the color bar at the top and the sharpness bar at the bottom (in the THX tester, i believe its the 4th or 5th test). Leave this on the screen and enter the service menu. go to option 2. GM1601 (This is what it is on my HLP, may be different on yours). There is an option at the top that says AutoColor. Press right and then hit SET (if not satisfied, you can hit reset in the same menu and it will restore the defaults). The tv will automatically set the colors and tones. I did this this morning and i've sampled 4-6 dvds and the colors and all were perfect. give it a shot and see what you think. the only thing i had to do was turn the color down a tad in the regular menu.

Here are my current Component1 settings for my HLP after doing the auto color.
Mode: Standard
Color Tone: Normal
DNR and DNIe: Off

Contrast: 90
Brightness: 47
Sharpness: 0
Color: 35
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post #28 of 42 Old 09-12-2005, 11:00 AM
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The top of my hlr6168w samsung has interference about 1 inch down from the top of the screen..this is only in regular broadcasts,not HD..I thought if I could get it into the PC mode I could adjust the screen,but I don't know if this would help the other input..Do You know any way to correct this problem?..Thanks Tom Peck
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post #29 of 42 Old 09-12-2005, 11:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Try playing with the vertical setting in the first menu. The red box should be centered so that top and bootm and left and right are the same distance from the edge
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post #30 of 42 Old 09-12-2005, 06:25 PM - Thread Starter
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To anyone who wants to shut off the DNIE processing (i.e the artificial enhancements) All you have to do is turn off all of the items on the left side of that start with SNI_

After I turned them all off, shut off the TV, powered it back up and turned on the DNIE Demo and there was no difference between the two sides
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