>>The Official Mitsubishi 1080p DLP Owners Thread<< - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 5412 Old 09-30-2005, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterRabbit View Post

All of the 73" mitzs will have 1080P.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by this, but if you mean that they all accept 1080p input, you are (sort of) wrong.

They are all 1080p displays, as are all of the xx627, xx628, xx727, xx827 and xx927 models. Everything you feed them is converted to 1080p60 for display. (The anti-wobulation faction will dispute whether or not they are really 1920x1080 displays.)

They can all accept 1080p24 via the OTA tuner, (presumably) the cable tuner or the 1394 input. I don't think any 1080p24 material is currently being broadcast or sent via cable. If you could find a 1080p24 transport stream, you could pipe it in via the 1394 input.

I don't think that 1080p30 is a valid ATSC format, so I doubt the sets could handle it even if you created such a transport stream and piped in in via 1394.

I know 1080p60 is not a valid ATSC format. See previous comment.

None of the sets will accept 1080p60 via component or HDMI (at least according to the spec sheets).

The xx927 models, and only the xx927 models, have a 1080p60 capable VGA input. This is the only way to get 1080p60 video, that is not MPEG2 encoded, into any of these sets.

The HDMI-2 input can be used for 1280x720p60 input from a PC. It is unclear whether or not it can be used for 1920x1080i input from a PC. As I said in an earlier post, 1080i from a PC via HDMI would seem to be more of an issue with the the display card or driver than the HDMI port, since other CE devices output 1080i via HDMI. The HDMI-2 port is not restricted to a PC, but if you want to hook-up a PC via HDMI, that's the port you are supposed to use.

Edit: I've been informed that 1080p30 is a valid ATSC format, so I would say there is a good chance that if you fed the TV a 1080p30 transport stream, it would be able to display it. (But, where are you going to get one.)
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post #182 of 5412 Old 09-30-2005, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by torid110 View Post

ugh, that sucks. I was under the impression that both HDMI inputs were basically the same (480i/p, 720p, 1080i) except that HDMI2 also allowed you to hook up a PC to it. I guess i'll hook up my STB to the component input since my DVD player won't output 720p/1080i on anything but the HDMI.

My impression is that you are CORRECT, i.e., there are two standard hdmi inputs, one of which can be used to input a pc.
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post #183 of 5412 Old 09-30-2005, 04:56 PM
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OK: I spent an hour at Magnolia this afternoon looking at the Mits 62628, sitting right next to a Sammy 6178, i.e., both the new 1080p units. First thing is that the Mits looked much better than when I first saw it 2 or 3 weeks ago (right after it came out); there was essentially none of the 'noise' in the picture that I saw the first time. [A high quality Mitsubishi HD loop was being run through both it and the Sammy.] Second, I thought both the Mits and the Sammy looked excellent; I would be hard pressed to choose a preference on what I saw. Third, I played with the video settings of the Mits, changing the 'mode' between Bright and Natural ; Bright of course was what it was set on, but I'm sure in my home I would set it to Natural. Also played with turning Sharp Edge ON and OFF; with this high quality feed it really didn't make much difference. Similarly with Dark Field Imager and Noise Reduction. My guess is that I would always keep Noise Reduction OFF, and have Sharp Edge ON with high quality signals, and OFF with SD signals. (Would be curious what owners are choosing to do in this regard.) I listened carefully for fan noise, but really couldn't hear anything over the background noise in the store (which was not great); did have the tv muted for this check.

I would really like to do this with a Mits 73" and Sammy 71", but these are not in Magnolia yet; and this is probably place that will get this first in this area.
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post #184 of 5412 Old 09-30-2005, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTAnderson View Post


The HDMI-2 input can be used for 1280x720p60 input from a PC. It is unclear whether or not it can be used for 1920x1080i input from a PC. As I said in an earlier post, 1080i from a PC via HDMI would seem to be more of an issue with the the display card or driver than the HDMI port, since other CE devices output 1080i via HDMI. The HDMI-2 port is not restricted to a PC, but if you want to hook-up a PC via HDMI, that's the port you are supposed to use.

I was refering to 1080P in the sense that Mitz uses it to describe these sets not the input signal. I have had a WD-62725 set for 11 months and Mitz describes it as a 720P set. I think they are describing the internal processing. My Mac G5 has two DVI outputs. I am using a DVI/VGA cable for the left monitor and displaying it on a Vizio L32 at 1024 X 768. I am using a DVI/HDMI cable for the right monitor and displaying it on a Vizio L32 at 1920 X 1080i. I hope the WD-73727 is capable of doing the same. I do not wish to spend more for the WD-73927 just to get a VGA input. The VGA input on my left Vizio is noticebly poorer than the HDMI input on my Right Vizio.

Dave
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post #185 of 5412 Old 09-30-2005, 05:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Anyone use any DVDs to calibrate their DLP's, and would like to share your settings?

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post #186 of 5412 Old 09-30-2005, 06:24 PM
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I used AVIA and I believe I posted them earlier in this thread.

What 'format' does everyone use for SD? If I leave in standard, the pic is terrible. If I use stretch or stretch plus, I get a waving effect when there are objects moving horizontally across the screen...bottom line tickers, etc., but at least everything isn't short and fat. I've tried changing the sharpness and everything else, bu the PQ from the digital cable is horrible.

I cannot see how people are turning off the Sharp Edge feature. I think it makes the picture look blurry (SD input). Small text is almost unreadable with it off...read again>bottom line crawler/sports ticker. I also tried the 'natural' setting and whites look 'creamy' and not very white, so it remained on the bright setting. Maybe I just like my whites, white and my blacks, black.
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post #187 of 5412 Old 09-30-2005, 07:38 PM
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I got my 62927. I just hooked it all up, so not much of a review yet. But, I do have 1 piece of bad news. There is definitely lag playing Halo 2. It was unplayable for me. I have the xbox in 480p mode connected with component cables. I will report back later with more..................
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post #188 of 5412 Old 09-30-2005, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterRabbit View Post

I plan to get the 73727 and use a DVI/HDMI cable to connect it to my Mac G5. My understanding is that only the 73927 will have a VGA input. My Mac G5 is currently using two Vizio L32 LCDs as monitors. Thr right one is using a DVI/HDMI cable but I had to use the VGA input on the left one because overscan was causing the Menu Bar to be just above the viewing area when using HDMI. When I play a slideshow on both monitors at the same time the HDMI definetly has better picture quality. I hope to be able to play slideshows and iMovies on the 73" Mits.

Dave

Can't one do slide shows on one's DVD player? Is it necessary to use a PC to do this?
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post #189 of 5412 Old 09-30-2005, 08:20 PM
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Do the 73" DLPs use a wobulated chip?
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post #190 of 5412 Old 09-30-2005, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

Can't one do slide shows on one's DVD player? Is it necessary to use a PC to do this?

I have thousands of pictures in hundreds of folders on my Mac. Why would I want to burn them onto a DVD everytime I wanted to show them to guests?
Dave
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post #191 of 5412 Old 10-01-2005, 06:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowchip View Post

I used AVIA and I believe I posted them earlier in this thread.

What 'format' does everyone use for SD? If I leave in standard, the pic is terrible. If I use stretch or stretch plus, I get a waving effect when there are objects moving horizontally across the screen...bottom line tickers, etc., but at least everything isn't short and fat. I've tried changing the sharpness and everything else, bu the PQ from the digital cable is horrible.

I cannot see how people are turning off the Sharp Edge feature. I think it makes the picture look blurry (SD input). Small text is almost unreadable with it off...read again>bottom line crawler/sports ticker. I also tried the 'natural' setting and whites look 'creamy' and not very white, so it remained on the bright setting. Maybe I just like my whites, white and my blacks, black.


I like the 21-tint, 27-color settings, and I tried the bright vs. natural. And I definatlly like the bright better, but I still keep the color temp low. It gives the picture a more life like look. For SD I keep the picture mode normal (4x3) because I dont want to stretch poor quality. Plus haveing a 73" still gives me a great 50" screen for SD.

As far as "Sharp edge" goes, I still don't like It. I tried to use It, but all I get Is a thin white outline around objects, very unnatural. So my vote still remains "OFF".

Hope everyone Is enjoying their Mits I know I am

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post #192 of 5412 Old 10-01-2005, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad LS1 View Post

well I wanted to see for myself about this lag issue. But from your responces and ones like the quote below, I'm feeling more and more comfortable with the Mitsu's.

Man... TEST it! I am not saying anyone is a liar but I've been busting my butt testing TVs with my Xbox for a good while and the Mits definitely had latency issues. Maybe not quite as bad as the Sammy but pretty bad IMO. It felt worse than the previous Sammy model to me. I wouldn't buy without trying it if you are a gamer. The worst that can happen is you try it and like it so you have wasted some time testing it out. The best that can happen is you try it and find, as I did, that it has latency. Then you are feeling very lucky that you didn't have the TV shipped before you tested it.
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post #193 of 5412 Old 10-01-2005, 01:25 PM
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Ok, I have had a few people ask me how I have the WD-52628 set up. This would apply for the 62" and 73" as well. I'm a really old guy and have been around the block a few times, and that includes working with TV's for many many years.......as a teenager in the 60's I did "color set up" for the largest distributors in Dallas...........needless to say a lot has changed (and for the better - (most of the time)). These overall set up recommendations are very general in nature and ALL a matter of opinion, so please keep that in mind.

IMO you really do not need to spend your money and set up disk or other equipment, there is really almost nothing serious to set up on the new 1080p Mit's sets. There is no color purity, no convergence, no scaling issues, no focus (not to be confused with sharpness), and no yoke rotation, almost "nothing" to adjust.

Obviously, MIT's (like all companies) puts their sets through a serious of test and adjustments at the factory...........most of you have already noticed that many of the models are shipped out with the contrast set full "on" (part of those test routines)...........basically they forgot to set it back to normal at the factory, don't worry about it.

As you begin to make your adjustments, it is preferable to have a 1080 HD picture (CSI on CBS is a good one) on the screen, but not absolutely necessary. Also, remember you can have different settings for each of your major input devices. For example on my old VHS tape machine, I have just a dash more brightness and contrast and color at 32 - to get as much video fidelity out of it as I can. The settings I have below are for 1080 HD OTA.

On video set up, you will notice the slider bar for many items (like "color" and others); 31" is the middle or neutral position; not "32".

Here are the settings: This should work for 95% of the population.........I will try to explain where you might consider over riding those settings.

Bright/Normal = Normal
For the highest percentage of residential settings "normal" is the way to go. Yes they are set up as bright in the store, and that is often a "selling" technique more than anything else. However if you have a lot of light in your room (sunlight or a lot of bright lights), then by all means use "bright"

Contrast = 39 (this is the end result you will begin at 31)
Brightness = 33 (this is the result, begin at 31)
Color = 31 (you might start at 0 if you use the B&W method)
Tint = 31
Sharpness = 35 (there can be a lot of debate on this one)
Color Temp = High
Perfect Color = Factory Default
Deep Field Imager = on
Sharp Edge = on
Video Noise = standard (assuming you get a good signal - and you should right? otherwise why are you bothering with digital anyway?)

Now here is the fast and best way to adjust your set in just a few minutes (seconds really).
1. Select = Natural
2. Set ALL the slider bars to "31" (that neutral position)
3. Set all the other settings as indicated above

The two most critical adjustments are first brightness and then contrast. There are TWO ways to do this..................you can leave the "color" setting at 31 OR set the color at "0" (setting to "0" is the preferred techie way - but I can bypass that step - try both ways, IF? your eyes are good enough you should have the same end result.

4. Ok, you now have your brightness at 31 (and your color setting is either "0" or "31").........now start increasing your brightness until it is correct for your room, AND then add 1, 2, or 3 numbers to it........don't worry if at this point it looks just a little washed out or pale. Depending on your screen size and the lighting conditions in your room you should land somewhere between a setting of 32 to 36. Example: Let's say you determine 32 is correct for your room, then add 2 and make it 34; before you go on to Contrast.

5. Now adjust the "contrast" to eliminate the washed out look. If you are still in B&W mode (color at "0"), then you have a near perfect B&W picture. Most of you should end up with a contrast setting 34 to 45.

Keep in mind Brightness and Contrast are the two most important settings to make on these sets AND it is the one that most people get way off. Also, remember it will normally take less brightness and less contrast then what you think it should...."less" is "better"

Yes you can go back and forth tweaking the brightness and contrast as many times as necessary until you have it set just the way you wantremember it is actually easier to adjust those at full B&W mode (color = 0)

6. If you have not done so, put your "color" setting back at 31.

7. Color Temp = High..........MIT's has actually combined two settings here, so it is not really what I would want, but it is so minor it is not important. High setting does two things; it increases the brightness a little bit AND changes the gray scale to the blue side a little. The Low setting reduces the brightness a little bit while moving the gray scale to "sepia" or warm as some people call it. Low is ok, I guess except if you are watching PBS HD with a lot old stuff already converted to sepia, then you are getting a "double" dose of sepia, and that is just way too much for me. So for 99% of the viewing "High" is the best compromise. I could write a book on Perfect Color and the things you can do with it.........and after you have it all screwed up, just set it back to factory default and you will be happy again.

8. Sharpness.........ok, you are starting at 31........start sliding it up until it gets too grainy for you. This is a compromise thing, and a very very personal thing..............but if you want to see the eyeglasses and watches on the 10,000 people in the foot ball stands, or if you want to know that Dr. Phil puts powder on his head (and he is not even HD) then you get the idea. These 1080p set are already very very sharp, but I want to squeeze out every last drop without getting too "grainy". You notice "Deep Field", "Sharp Edge" are "on" and video noise = standard......I suggest if you think those need changing that you first try tweaking the slider bar on "Sharpness" first; that might get desired result you are looking for. For the largest 73" screen Sharp Edge = on might too much with a normal or above sharpness setting.............you may want to try it with Sharp Edge = on AND a slightly lower sharpness setting........say "28". Between "Sharp Edge" and "Sharpness", you are trying to get the highest detail possible with lowest grain, and clear defined edges. It will really does not take much adjustment either way to get what you want.



Ok, so how long does this take? (Remember I am very old and slow)

Brightness: 3 seconds
Contrast: 4 seconds

There is really nothing else to do, so go through it again: 7 seconds


Sit back = enjoy.
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post #194 of 5412 Old 10-01-2005, 02:25 PM
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Well i must say this tv is much better than the 52725 that I just returned due to the bright spot issue. I'm currently watching the Alabama/UF game in HD and it's awesome. Also played a round of Halo 2 with no lag what so ever. Question how many hours did you tv come with? Mine was 200 hours out of the box. I'm not concerned just surprised by that quantity. I'll probably wait until dark to set it up with avia. Thanks to everyone for their input in this thread.

James

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Toshiba HD-A20
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post #195 of 5412 Old 10-01-2005, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bopfer View Post

I got my 62927. I just hooked it all up, so not much of a review yet. But, I do have 1 piece of bad news. There is definitely lag playing Halo 2. It was unplayable for me. I have the xbox in 480p mode connected with component cables. I will report back later with more..................

Hey Bopfer,
When did you get delivery on the 62927? What area are you located? I have been calling and searching for a ship date here in Texas (DFw). I am ready to buy on the first one that comes in but my dealer doesn't know for sure--just sometime in October. How about some details on availabilty in your area.
Thanx Big Frog
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post #196 of 5412 Old 10-01-2005, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Big Frog View Post

Hey Bopfer,
When did you get delivery on the 62927? What area are you located?

I am in the Los Angeles area. I ordered mine from Electroline, www.electroline4u.com and they are also in LA. So, I just went over and picked it up myself. I got it for about $4300, which looks like a pretty awesome price to me.

I have had it about 24 hours and overall I love it and I don't even have an HD feed running to it yet. So far I have only watched high resolution XVID files using my Xbox. They look amazing. I am sure I will be even more amazed when I get HD going.

The only issue I have had so far is with lag when playing Halo 2 over a component connection. It was pretty bad. But, once I hooked the Xbox to the VGA port it was fine. So, I won't worry about that lag over component for now.

The built in PVR is pretty lame if you are used to Tivo. It is harder to use and when I pause it says "Pausing TV, please wait". The video keeps going, then, after about 20 second it pauses back to the location where I hit pause. I don't think I will be using this anyway, since I have an HD Tivo coming on Friday.

I haven't really done much with the picture settings except change it to Natural mode. The picture quality on Bright mode was horrible to me.

I have SD hooked up via S-video right now in Stretch Plus mode. It looks pretty much how I expected. I am sure it will look a little better when I get the HD Tivo hooked up via HDMI.

-Bryan
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post #197 of 5412 Old 10-01-2005, 04:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bopfer View Post

The only issue I have had so far is with lag when playing Halo 2 over a component connection. It was pretty bad. But, once I hooked the Xbox to the VGA port it was fine. So, I won't worry about that lag over component for now.

Bryan

Could you explain what kind of lag your experiening on Halo 2, because I've played Halo 2 thru component on my TV and I have no lag at all.

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post #198 of 5412 Old 10-01-2005, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by bopfer View Post

The only issue I have had so far is with lag when playing Halo 2 over a component connection. It was pretty bad. But, once I hooked the Xbox to the VGA port it was fine. So, I won't worry about that lag over component for now.

Were you playing single player campaign, system link or xbox Live?
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post #199 of 5412 Old 10-01-2005, 08:52 PM
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For all the owners out there, what DON'T you like about the 1080? Or to put it another way, what would you liked changed/added/taken away or improved?

Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way.
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post #200 of 5412 Old 10-01-2005, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyabusha View Post

Could you explain what kind of lag your experiening on Halo 2, because I've played Halo 2 thru component on my TV and I have no lag at all.

The main thing I notice is changing direction. When I move the thumbstick it takes a split second for anything to happen on the screen. I have tried it in Split Screen mode and on Live. In close up fights I always lose becuase I am that split second behind. I tried it in 480i and 480p with the same results in both.

-Bryan
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post #201 of 5412 Old 10-01-2005, 11:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sooner22 View Post

Well i must say this tv is much better than the 52725 that I just returned due to the bright spot issue. ...

How's the new set compare to your old set as far as brightness and black levels go? Also, how much darker are black levels with the lights off?
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post #202 of 5412 Old 10-02-2005, 12:31 AM
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I ordered my 62827 from Electroline also. It should arrive here in MN tuesday or Wednesday. I will post reviews as soon as I get it.
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post #203 of 5412 Old 10-02-2005, 03:25 AM
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Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

For all the owners out there, what DON'T you like about the 1080? Or to put it another way, what would you liked changed/added/taken away or improved?

The short story, the TV Guide system does not work. When TV Guide is turned "on" the software in it, conflicts with the MIT's turner software. Seriously possessed. Within 2 or 3 days, the TV becomes completely non-operational, you can not dial to any channel. It appears to me TV Guide does not work with about 70% of the new products on the market....both Toshiba and Sony are having big problems as well (the Sony problems are very similar to Mit's).........apparently LG is not having problems.

I did my last system reset almost 2 weeks ago and have left the TV Guide system "off"........the set has worked perfect ever since.
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post #204 of 5412 Old 10-02-2005, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by HoustonPerson View Post

The short story, the TV Guide system does not work. When TV Guide is turned "on" the software in it, conflicts with the MIT's turner software. Seriously possessed. Within 2 or 3 days, the TV becomes completely non-operational, you can not dial to any channel. It appears to me TV Guide does not work with about 70% of the new products on the market....both Toshiba and Sony are having big problems as well (the Sony problems are very similar to Mit's).........apparently LG is not having problems.

I did my last system reset almost 2 weeks ago and have left the TV Guide system "off"........the set has worked perfect ever since.

Does one have this problem from the TV Guide that comes via the cable (COMCAST for me) stb?
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post #205 of 5412 Old 10-02-2005, 09:00 AM
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I've just bought the DVE disc but I think I may wait until I get a new DVD player. My old one is a really cheap one and the picture just doesn't look good enough to bother calibrating with. Skimming through DVE, I've found it complicated and don't want to have to calibrate my set with my crappy player and then do it again when I get my new one.
That being said, I've set my TV by eye and think the picture I get is great. I use the Natural and Low settings. Bright is too bright and High is too blue (for me anyway). One exception is live sports. Even though it does look a bit unnatural, I use the bright mode for football games (in HD) because the colors pop so much more and it's enjoyable that way.
For SD watching, I use narrow view. No need to distort the pic since it looks pretty good to me in 4:3. If I do stretch it, I use stretch plus. People aren't as short and fat that way.
I don't use noise reduction or sharp edge with HD but do with SD. Deep field is on all the time.
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post #206 of 5412 Old 10-02-2005, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snuba View Post

I've just bought the DVE disc but I think I may wait until I get a new DVD player. My old one is a really cheap one and the picture just doesn't look good enough to bother calibrating with. Skimming through DVE, I've found it complicated and don't want to have to calibrate my set with my crappy player and then do it again when I get my new one.

On the other hand, you can start 'playing with' DVE on your current dvd player; it does take a bit of playing with it to use it effectively. But it's fun, and when you get used to it, it is extremely efficient and useful.
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post #207 of 5412 Old 10-02-2005, 10:45 AM
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anyone done any gaming with the new mits sets and noticed any of the lag others are complaining about from the sammys?
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post #208 of 5412 Old 10-02-2005, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

How's the new set compare to your old set as far as brightness and black levels go? Also, how much darker are black levels with the lights off?

I'm not much of a videophile but from what i can tell the black levels are much better and i think the brightness is a little bitter as well. Overall i'm much happier with this set compared to the other one. Hope that helped.

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post #209 of 5412 Old 10-02-2005, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by jestyr40 View Post

anyone done any gaming with the new mits sets and noticed any of the lag others are complaining about from the sammys?

30 minutes after opening the set a buddy and I played Halo 2 for an hour against each other. There was no lag at all. The picture was also outstanding.

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post #210 of 5412 Old 10-02-2005, 11:46 AM
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I figured out my Halo lag problem. I had my component cables running through my Harmon Kardon, which was doing the video switching. When I connected the Xbox directly to the TV the lag was gone. I am not sure why, but I am happy it's gone.

Now if Halo 2 only did widescreen. It is a little of an adjustment to play with it stretched.

-Bryan
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