Official 2005 Sony KDSR-50/60XBR1 SXRD Owner's Thread - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 23988 Old 09-28-2005, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by hadleyfarm View Post

I've ordered a 60" from CC (thought I was getting a real good deal until I saw recent post here that Sunshine is now at appx. $3900. - oh well!!!)

While I wait for 60" delivery - I'd like to identify some good recommendations for a "highly compatible" DVD player to marry with the 60". Does it make sense to invest heavily (<$1000.00) for DVD player today OR stay in the $300. or less range?

I would say get a decent DVD player -- you have all the old media of which you will want to enjoy (it's not exactly junk!), and High Definition DVD will take a few years to catch on (remember how long it took DVDs to catch on to the general public?).

Just my $.02...

My HT: 60" Pioneer Elite PRO-151FD (calibration soon), Krell electronics, B&W N802s.
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post #62 of 23988 Old 09-28-2005, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Bombthroat View Post

Alright, here are all the different resolutions I tested on the VGA port. These were all tested at 60Hz.

1360 x 768 - Worked - Filled most of the screen and appeared to be the best available resolution.

These are all the resolutions I was able to test and their results. I was not able to test hooking the PC up to the HDMI port because I do not have a DVI to HDMI cable at this time.

I did test 1360 x 768 at 85Hz and it worked an looked beautiful. The only difference between the 60Hz and 85Hz settings was that the 60Hz setting filled much more of the screen space. So from that standpoint, I felt it looked better at 60Hz (more screen real estate).

Just to be clear, NONE of the resolutions tested were able to fill the screen in it's entirety.

My system was using an ATi video card with the latest Catalyst drivers (5.9).

I hope this helps someone who is on the fence and answers the questions outright for others.

What I am curious to see is how the 1360x768 VGA compares to 1080i over component or DVI/HDMI? Do you have the ability to test via the ATI DVI to component adapter?
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post #63 of 23988 Old 09-28-2005, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by HomeGuy View Post

Matt: That is correct. But in all honesty I doubt you could tell the difference between a true 1080P signal and a 1080I signal that is scaled to progressive. Remember that you'll be sitting 9-12 feet away from this puppy and it's still 1:1 pixel mapping. I also want to know why it's important for the TV to do 1080P over VGA? It doesn't seem plausible that anyone would develop a HD box with VGA? Am I missing something.

I've got an HD box right now with VGA - my HTPC

I'm a heavy HTPC user, all DVD's and movies I own are stored on the HTPC and played back directly from it. Next to 1080p over HDMI which isn't possible on these, the best image you're going to get is via VGA.
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post #64 of 23988 Old 09-28-2005, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Bombthroat View Post

The best way I can answer this question is to say I watched the scene from "The Lord of the Rings: Two Towers" where they are in the woods and end up finding Gandalf the White. This scene has a lot of very dark areas as well as a ton of shadows. I watched this using my progressive scan DVD player hooked up through component. At my normal viewing distance (approx 10 - 12') the blacks appeared to be as black as the bezel surrounding the set and the shadow detail was excellent.

The only caveat I have with saying the shadow detail was absolute was I did not have my CRT right beside it as a reference for the scene. But as far as I could tell, the forest and all shadows were extremely detailed.

Hi Bombthroat,
many thanks for your excellent postings.
By the way do you have access to the DVD of Sin City? It is a good one for testing the black levels of your set.
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post #65 of 23988 Old 09-28-2005, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Bombthroat View Post

I wish I could answer that question for you. I'm not familiar with SSE. I'll say this, I haven't noticed any shimmering at all with the picture. At my normal viewing distance, it just looks like a constant picture.

Sorry I can't help with that. I'm sure others will receive their sets by the end of the week. Hopefully someone else will be able to answer the question for you.

SSE is their and very noticable on the SXRD's, the simmering effect on a bright section of the screen, made worse by motion. Not a cause of the resolution, but by the plastic front cover.

I seen both 50/60" sets at Sony store in Canada.
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post #66 of 23988 Old 09-28-2005, 01:22 PM
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Bombthroat,

When you tried all of those resolutions through the VGA port were you using Powerstrip? Also, what kind of video card are you using?

I'm curious.... Since "something" came on the screen when you input 1080p/60 maybe a little tweaking with Powerstrip could make it work. The door on 1080p from a PC isn't completely closed until we have pursued that route.

I am not at all confident that 1080p will work through HDMI.

Thanks for your posts and updates. I really appreciate the info.

Sean
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post #67 of 23988 Old 09-28-2005, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by HDVidGuy View Post

SSE is their and very noticable on the SXRD's, the simmering effect on a bright section of the screen, made worse by motion. Not a cause of the resolution, but by the plastic front cover.

I seen both 50/60" sets at Sony store in Canada.

Thanks for that info. I'm returning my 50A10 due to Screen Door Effect (SDE). This is related to the spacing between the pixels rather than SSE which is related to the coating on the inside of the plastic screen. I think these two effects interact (for example horizontal panning of a scene causes both to appear) and that SDE is by far the worse of the two. As I understand, SDE is supposed to be virtually non-existent on the SXRDs due to the close pixel spacing/small gaps between pixels. Can you comment on this? I was thinking about buying the 50" SXRD. I've seen SSE on DLPs but it appears to be much less than on LCDs possibly because they have smaller gap spacing between the mirrors and therefore almost no SDE to show up along with the SSE?
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post #68 of 23988 Old 09-28-2005, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AkaStp View Post

SDE is not significant unless you are within about 8' of the screen of the 50A10. Also, SDE is a static effect that does not change with motion or viewing angle because it originates from the pixel structure of the LCD panels and not the front screen and so is inherent in the projected picture.

Technically true, but brighter picture content will reveal SDE better than darker content. That means that it can become more noticeable as the brightness of the picture on the screen changes. And that means that the percepted SDE can in fact change due to on screen motion.
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post #69 of 23988 Old 09-28-2005, 05:22 PM
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I was replying to AkaStp who says SDE is "constant".
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post #70 of 23988 Old 09-28-2005, 05:25 PM
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anyone try any video games on this tv and if so is there any lag?
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post #71 of 23988 Old 09-28-2005, 05:31 PM
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Is there anyone with one of these sets now (preferably the 60") that has their old dvd player that would be worth $400 or less hooked up, and has played their old regular non-hd dvds on the new set?

I would love to know opinions on how they look on the SXRD. I have about 300 dvds and i want to be able to play them on this set and have them look good, and i am going to get a new dvd player, but i dont want to spend a fortune on it.

Also, how matte is the screen? Does it throw off no reflection at all, a little reflection, or what? Does it give the tv a deep nicer picture or does it soften the picture?

And congrats to all you guys who got your sets already, i envy you all.

never take life seriously
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post #72 of 23988 Old 09-28-2005, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post

I don't recall a single person that has seen and reviewed the 60" SXRD as reporting ANY SDE period. The nature of the 1080P display and pixel structure of this display will mirror the Qualia - it's not been built to be inferior and should not display any SDE - No one reported SDE from CEDIA and or people doing in store viewing haven't reported it either. The opposite has been reported repeatedly.

I could see no SDE even from three feet away...

 

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post #73 of 23988 Old 09-28-2005, 06:51 PM
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Poor Bombthroat - Must feel like the SXRD Lone Ranger and our only source to interrogate and ask a thousand questions. Thanks for being the guinea pig but your going through a feeding frenzy of starved potential customers that have had to discuss and rehash the SOS for all these months and now you have the Real Deal!

Take a break and enjoy and then give us a fresh perspective.

Samsung 65F8000, 60D8000, 40HU6350, Panasonic 50E60 LCD's
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post #74 of 23988 Old 09-28-2005, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yankeeman View Post

Is there anyone with one of these sets now (preferably the 60") that has their old dvd player that would be worth $400 or less hooked up, and has played their old regular non-hd dvds on the new set?

I would love to know opinions on how they look on the SXRD. I have about 300 dvds and i want to be able to play them on this set and have them look good, and i am going to get a new dvd player, but i dont want to spend a fortune on it.

Also, how matte is the screen? Does it throw off no reflection at all, a little reflection, or what? Does it give the tv a deep nicer picture or does it soften the picture?

And congrats to all you guys who got your sets already, i envy you all.

HD DVD's and AKA Blu-Ray aren't on the market just yet. What you may be thinking of is "Upscaling DVD Players" - Oppo is rated as one of the best as well as a best value and Sony model is good but they are not HD - HD DVD's should start appearing once Sony debuts Bluray around the Holidays (it's hoped) and Toshiba releases theirs next year.

A good place to check out your question would be the Qualia thread as they are pretty identical other than size and screen material. I own an upscalling unit and it does a great job but just falls short of HD PQ but close. Since Q006 folks have reviewed these since February there should be alot of recommendations.

Heere's some excellent reviews on 1080P Samsung w/DVD Players.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post5892463

Good Luck!

Samsung 65F8000, 60D8000, 40HU6350, Panasonic 50E60 LCD's
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post #75 of 23988 Old 09-28-2005, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by AkaStp View Post

Here we go again!
but will most likely exhibit the same amount of SSE as the A10s (and A20s etc) because they use the same type of screen.

Well i say BS....

Once again Dlp dont have nearly as bad as SSE as Lcds....I hope sxrd will be the same or better..
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post #76 of 23988 Old 09-28-2005, 08:13 PM
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Can we please keep the SSE debate confined to the other SXRD thread where it belongs?

I want to eat your brains and gain your knowledge.
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post #77 of 23988 Old 09-28-2005, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by empire_of_one View Post

Can we please keep the SSE debate confined to the other SXRD thread where it belongs?


There really is no SSE "debate". It just is on all RPTV's. That's the nature of the beast. What's to debate?
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post #78 of 23988 Old 09-28-2005, 08:56 PM
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There's one person here who thinks there's a debate, and I think we'd all rather not go through that again on another thread.

I want to eat your brains and gain your knowledge.
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post #79 of 23988 Old 09-28-2005, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by empire_of_one View Post

There's one person here who thinks there's a debate.


Its still wrong to say SSE will be the Same as the lcds... Cmon now.

Im not saying nothing more on this until i see one. If im wrong i will admit it.
However if im not wrong you guys still wont admit it Lol
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post #80 of 23988 Old 09-29-2005, 01:29 AM
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Originally Posted by jvrobert View Post

Hmm, not good. I know I refuse to buy any TV that can't do 1080p over at least _some_ input, even VGA would be fine. Probably others feel the same, primarily for HTPC use.

Somebody'll have to sit down and really mess with the timings to see if there's a way to get it to do 1920x1080p30 or 1920x1080p60 over VGA.

I was 100% sure on the SXRD until I read this, may be down to the JVC or the HP DLP if this won't work - it's a deal breaker.

quick question as to this statement jvrobert, the new PS3 will be putting out 1080i and 1080p , so this means that if a game of there's is capable of 1080p this tv will not be able to handle it?
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post #81 of 23988 Old 09-29-2005, 03:41 AM
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Originally Posted by mikeytmaxx View Post

quick question as to this statement jvrobert, the new PS3 will be putting out 1080i and 1080p , so this means that if a game of there's is capable of 1080p this tv will not be able to handle it?

Simply because capability may be present with PS3 or X360 to deliver to the max 1080P does not mean they will. The available space for features/programming dwarfs ps2 and xbox and as a result the development costs and costs for the games are predicted to be more also. We may not truly know until they and the games are here. Maxing out all those features/programming costs time/money that gets passed onto us. We may never see the capability maxed out on these new platforms as a result - but reports of Trade Show viewing asserts what we will get is pretty amazing. However, if a games sucks - it'll suck at 1080P also it's the content and then making it beautiful - sort of llike what will be the next "HALO", I would guess that Xbox may have failed without it's Halo flagship.

Based upon reviewing this debate the past year the set should display to 1080P even if it cannot take the true 1080P. The frame rates and a slight difference would be present but anyone already viewing 1080i HD knows it's pretty amazing (mine is anyways). I recently got HD cables for my Xbox and then switched my settings to it's max on some of my games 480P and the difference is significant it adds a smoothness and clarity so it'll be fantastic to take it to 720P and 1080i.

Even if the Holy Grail 1080P may be in the future 1080i on a video game should blow us away - especially if you have a 60" screen. PS2 fans especially should be excited because some of the graphics I've observed that came from PS2 games like GTA series onto Xbox is pretty pathetic looking compared to Xbox graphics and this isn't meant to be a put down of PS2 - just Sony lack of upgrading their player for so long. Video Games in HD should simply be amazing and then if they can get to true 1080P your talking Ultra HD as that is what your talking about at that level.

GAME ON MASTER CHIEF!

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post #82 of 23988 Old 09-29-2005, 05:03 AM
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Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post

Simply because capability may be present with PS3 or X360 to deliver to the max 1080P does not mean they will. The available space for features/programming dwarfs ps2 and xbox and as a result the development costs and costs for the games are predicted to be more also. We may not truly know until they and the games are here. Maxing out all those features/programming costs time/money that gets passed onto us. We may never see the capability maxed out on these new platforms as a result - but reports of Trade Show viewing asserts what we will get is pretty amazing. However, if a games sucks - it'll suck at 1080P also it's the content and then making it beautiful - sort of llike what will be the next "HALO", I would guess that Xbox may have failed without it's Halo flagship.

Based upon reviewing this debate the past year the set should display to 1080P even if it cannot take the true 1080P. The frame rates and a slight difference would be present but anyone already viewing 1080i HD knows it's pretty amazing (mine is anyways). I recently got HD cables for my Xbox and then switched my settings to it's max on some of my games 480P and the difference is significant it adds a smoothness and clarity so it'll be fantastic to take it to 720P and 1080i.

Even if the Holy Grail 1080P may be in the future 1080i on a video game should blow us away - especially if you have a 60" screen. PS2 fans especially should be excited because some of the graphics I've observed that came from PS2 games like GTA series onto Xbox is pretty pathetic looking compared to Xbox graphics and this isn't meant to be a put down of PS2 - just Sony lack of upgrading their player for so long. Video Games in HD should simply be amazing and then if they can get to true 1080P your talking Ultra HD as that is what your talking about at that level.

GAME ON MASTER CHIEF!

Thank you for your insight ^ above i appreciate it, i have one question for you since you said you purchased HD cables for your current XBOX, i would like to know which cables you purchased, i have a transparent audio cable which is worth 180 bucks, and i bought a intec adapter for the xbox which has the component connections as well as the s-video, wondering if this is ok or would you recommend something else, for the time being until the 360 comes out?
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post #83 of 23988 Old 09-29-2005, 05:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Ron Dabkowski View Post

As I understand, SDE is supposed to be virtually non-existent on the SXRDs due to the close pixel spacing/small gaps between pixels. Can you comment on this?

FYI: You will need to be very close to the TV e.g., 1-2 feet to even see the pixels! Even then, they're SO small. SDE will not be an issue unless you sit that close.
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post #84 of 23988 Old 09-29-2005, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Bombthroat View Post

My KDS-R60XBR1 has arrived...

I don't have a "report" perse for all of you, rather just the opinions of one darn happy consumer. I'm going to include a link to an HTML page with all the thumbnails of pics I've taken. Please no critiquing of the photography, I know I'm horrible at taking pictures, just try to realize if there is any apparent fault with the pictures it is with my skills as a lousy photographer not the set.

HDTV on this set is absolutely stunning as far as I'm concerned. I watched about an hour of "The Italian Job" and was amazed over and over again with how good the picture was. I watched part of "The Lord of the Rings: Two Towers" on a progressive scan DVD player and was surprised at how good a DVD can still look when given the proper equipment. I may have to go back and watch a lot of my DVD's over again just to see what I missed previously. Standard definition cable was very watchable but wasn't anything special by a long shot. There is only so much processing can do and you know what they say, Sh*t in sh*t out. That pretty much covers standard definition. I hooked up my PS2 briefly (don't have component cables for it only composite) and again it was very usable just nothing special. I'll bet Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 will look out of this world on this set though.

My cable box is hooked up through HDMI (HDMI to HDMI) for anyone who wants to know. Also the screen on this set is matte not shiny.

I'm a computer geek but not a TV geek so I don't know exactly what else to tell everyone else. The only other piece of information I can give is that I'm SO very happy I purchased this set. I have not seen a set to date (Qualia 006 excluded) that had a better picture, in my mind. Of course I would be bias towards this set as it's what I've chosen. My final verdict is that I'm 100% satisfied with it at the present time. If there was one thing I could change about the set, it would be to have removable side speakers. The speakers are a small price to pay for an otherwise outstanding set.

Here's the link I promised. I'll try to add more pics later on. Bombthroat's KDS-R60XBR1 Pics

I hope everyone enjoys. I'll try to answer questions in due time. But for now, back to the TV.


BOMBTHROAT!!!!! I know you are busy with that thing called LIFE!!! , but can you pleaseeeeeeeeee post some pics of this set in HD, as i stated in the other thread, i think all of the forum members who are purchasing this set would LOVE to see some pics of what this tv can do with HD material..... thank you.......
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post #85 of 23988 Old 09-29-2005, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AkaStp View Post

Here we go again!
SDE is not significant unless you are within about 8' of the screen of the 50A10. Also, SDE is a static effect that does not change with motion or viewing angle because it originates from the pixel structure of the LCD panels and not the front screen and so is inherent in the projected picture. That leaves the sparkly screen which is referred to hereabouts as SSE and can be confused with noise or grain in the picture, especially during motion. SSE is inherent in all RP HDTVs, including DLP and RP-LCDs and D-ILAs and is pretty much the same on each type of TV because they all use much the same type of screen. The SXRDs will not have any noticeable SDE but will most likely exhibit the same amount of SSE as the A10s (and A20s etc) because they use the same type of screen.

I agree that SDE is significant only within about 8' of the 50A10 screen. I was just pointing out that you can indeed see it to some extent in certain material beyond 8 feet. I think for most this will be a non-issue, for some people it will be a bigger issue. Once again this is only on some material, on a majority of material you would be hard pressed to find this fault. I agree with what you say about SDE being a static effect, however I still stand by my assumption that under certain video conditions, I.E. slow panning of large bright areas or slow panning of a screen that is dimly lit that SDE becomes more noticeable. For example when an image is static SDE tends to blend in. However when the image is moving slowly then SDE starts starts to stand out as a stationary image pattern against a moving background. Of course, this is also exactly the same type of condition under which SSE occurs, but SSE shows up as a scintillating or shimmering bright effect. I can tell the difference between the two. I'm basing this on 4 weeks of close observation of the 50A10 where my viewing distance is exactly 9 feet away. I may move to the Sony 42A10 which may be a better choice for my viewing conditions. I had a chance to view this against Plasmas including the Panasonic 42" HD Plasma with the same HD video feed. The Sony was slightly better in my opinion biased or unbiased as it may be. All in all, the Sony's A10's are impressive with a good signal.
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post #86 of 23988 Old 09-29-2005, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Bombthroat View Post

My KDS-R60XBR1 has arrived...

I hooked up my PS2 briefly (don't have component cables for it only composite) and again it was very usable just nothing special. I'll bet Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 will look out of this world on this set though.


Have you spent any more time with your PS2? And i f so - did you notice any lag while playing games? I play on XBOX Live and I can imagine this being a big problem if it exists.

Thanks for all of the good info so far.
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post #87 of 23988 Old 09-29-2005, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeytmaxx View Post

BOMBTHROAT!!!!! I know you are busy with that thing called LIFE!!! , but can you pleaseeeeeeeeee post some pics of this set in HD, as i stated in the other thread, i think all of the forum members who are purchasing this set would LOVE to see some pics of what this tv can do with HD material..... thank you.......

I'm nearly positive he said at one point he watched the Italian Job in hd and loved it...which is what those photos portray, no?
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post #88 of 23988 Old 09-29-2005, 12:05 PM
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CC now has the 50" listed on their site...

http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Sony-...oductDetail.do

Although they incorrectly list it as a LCD rear-projection HDTV. Weird they only have the 50" listed so far.

George C.

OB replaced on 9-27-2007
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post #89 of 23988 Old 09-29-2005, 12:30 PM
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CC currently has the weight listed at 13.8 lbs. I think they need to investigate who took the guts out of their SXRD.
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post #90 of 23988 Old 09-29-2005, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattburk View Post

so forgive me for stating the obvious, but this tv does not accept 1080p over any of the inputs except OTA transmissions, but it does upconvert all signals sent to it to 1080p.
Right?

I've read the KDS-R60XBR1 manual cover to cover... and there is no reference to 1080p what so ever!

There isn't even a reference that this TV is supposed to up-convert incoming signals to 1080p.

Sony's Website doesn't even suggest the KDS-R60XBR1 has anything to do with 1080p.

The only place that I've seen that this TV supports 1080p on any level, is the Crutchfield Website, and this forum.

I've seen the Qualia .006, and I agree that the picture quality was one of the best I've ever seen from a RPTV, so I expect the picture quality of the KDS-R60XBR1 will be as good since according to Sony, they use the same LCoS design.

I'm so glad you are happy with your set. I can't wait to finally see one of these TV's... there sure has been a lot of hype!

But, 1080p?... where are people getting their info?

"New" Isn't always better, but you'll never know unless you give it a try!
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Reply Rear Projection Units

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Sony , Sony Kds R5oxbr1 Kdsr5oxbr1 Lamp With Housing Xl5100
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