Official 2005 Sony KDSR-50/60XBR1 SXRD Owner's Thread - Page 53 - AVS Forum
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post #1561 of 24004 Old 10-16-2005, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Dixie Flatline View Post

I love the set and want to marry it. (Fortunately, so does my wife. ) This discussion is inspired purely by academic interest in the display mechanism, not by any quixotic attempt to nitpick.

Hey Dixie, sounds like a perfect opportunity for that threesome you've always wanted to try.

Just kidding!

Dennis
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post #1562 of 24004 Old 10-16-2005, 04:10 PM
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Now that I've had a few days with mine I am quite happy with my purchase. The set setup at my tweeter did look very bad though. They must have had every "enhancement" turned on as there was a ton of motion smear and it was soft. I don't think I could get my set to do that if I wanted to. It is very sharp and has no motion problems.

It blows away my old 47" Panasonic CRT RPTV in every way. Black levels and shadow detail aren't even close.

The VGA port was very dissappointing though. I played around with it and power strip for about 1-2 hours and the high resolution that filled top to bottom, was only 1280x1024 but with huge bars on the side. Any higher and the screen shrank from there. 720p was very small too ( about or less real screen space as my old 47"). No amount over overscanning would fill the screen.

I tried dvi to hdmi with my pc and it looked wonderful, once I switched from vivid (yuck) to pro. 1080i had overscan, 1000i had some underscan but my computer was a bit laggy at that res. I had just reformatted and reinstalled my pc so I have not got it completely back up yet. I used to play at 1744x988i on my old crt. 720p looked great, though there was some overscan. I tried Doom 3 and it looked superb, blowing away my old tv. I need to get a 20-25' dvi cable as the 10' one I used to test with isn't long enough.

Right now I'm hooked up to my sa 8000hd via component via component since the dvi-hdmi hookup was very... cagey (though it did look much better when it worked). I have to try to swap out my box for an 8300hd from comcast this week.

Has anyone gotten rid of the red push yet? I setup my tv using umr's qualia observation and someone else sxrd recommendation as a starting point, but in warm this set has a noticable red push.

Also could someone explain to me how the drc palette needs to be setup? I saw one explanation but it didn't help me at all. What is the proper setting for the advanced iris option too?
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post #1563 of 24004 Old 10-16-2005, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overcast View Post

If Circuit City is carrying Dynaudio , I'll eat my shorts I would suggest if you have anything outside of a cheesy cube for your center channel, to not put it on top of your TV. That is just asking for something to happen.


Who Said anything about Circuit City carrying Dynaudio!!

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post #1564 of 24004 Old 10-16-2005, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drhill View Post

Now that I've had a few days with mine I am quite happy with my purchase. The set setup at my tweeter did look very bad though. They must have had every "enhancement" turned on as there was a ton of motion smear and it was soft. I don't think I could get my set to do that if I wanted to. It is very sharp and has no motion problems.

It blows away my old 47" Panasonic CRT RPTV in every way. Black levels and shadow detail aren't even close.

The VGA port was very dissappointing though. I played around with it and power strip for about 1-2 hours and the high resolution that filled top to bottom, was only 1280x1024 but with huge bars on the side. Any higher and the screen shrank from there. 720p was very small too ( about or less real screen space as my old 47"). No amount over overscanning would fill the screen.

I tried dvi to hdmi with my pc and it looked wonderful, once I switched from vivid (yuck) to pro. 1080i had overscan, 1000i had some underscan but my computer was a bit laggy at that res. I had just reformatted and reinstalled my pc so I have not got it completely back up yet. I used to play at 1744x988i on my old crt. 720p looked great, though there was some overscan. I tried Doom 3 and it looked superb, blowing away my old tv. I need to get a 20-25' dvi cable as the 10' one I used to test with isn't long enough.

Right now I'm hooked up to my sa 8000hd via component via component since the dvi-hdmi hookup was very... cagey (though it did look much better when it worked). I have to try to swap out my box for an 8300hd from comcast this week.

Has anyone gotten rid of the red push yet? I setup my tv using umr's qualia observation and someone else sxrd recommendation as a starting point, but in warm this set has a noticable red push.

Also could someone explain to me how the drc palette needs to be setup? I saw one explanation but it didn't help me at all. What is the proper setting for the advanced iris option too?

What grafx card are you using?

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post #1565 of 24004 Old 10-16-2005, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Tomaskovic View Post

I know what you mean, but the 60" with the speakers would really take up my whole wall and would probably look overwhelming.

Buying a smaller set than you have space for is usually a mistake.

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post #1566 of 24004 Old 10-16-2005, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by maximum360 View Post

What grafx card are you using?

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post #1567 of 24004 Old 10-16-2005, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AkaStp View Post

There is a thread about fixing red push in the A10s using a setting the service menu. Have you seen it? Its possible it might work for the SXRDs if they have a similar SM as the A10s.


No I haven't. I'm not sure I want to break my warrenty by going in the SM menu though. Maybe I will have it ISF'd then.

I did a good job on my last set, but I didn't mind going into the SM for better convergence and a much cheaper set.
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post #1568 of 24004 Old 10-16-2005, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Gary_Kreie View Post

I got my KDS-R60XBR1 yesterday, and of course the picture is great. Today, I tried a few other features. I hooked up my Sony Digital Camcorder using the I.Link connection. The video looked good, and I can control my camcorder using the KDS remote to play, pause, rewind, etc. -- all through the i.link connector.

Then I tried the memory stick picture viewer. Pretty cool. It shows your pictures in thumbnail form and then lets you start a slideshow. One of the options for the slideshow is background piano music -- already built into the TV. Several options for picture transitions are built-in, besides fade.

When the slideshow gets to an mpeg movie, it fades out the piano and plays the mpeg with sound, then it resumes the still photos and fades the piano back in again. Well thought out.

The twin-view works well, although I with they would have let you step through channels on the muted image while the unmuted image is frozen. It appears that only the picture with the sound on can step through channels.

Monday I get the cablecard installed, so this weekend has been 480i only.

I hooked up an old rabbit ears with UHF loop antenna to the TV, and was delighted to see that it found all the HDTV channels in St. Louis. I watched the baseball game this afternoon (St. Louis vs. Houston). There's always tomorrow.

The Pittsburg game looked fantastic. I did twin view with HDVT picture on one side from the antenna, and the cable channel w/o HDTV on the other side and compared. Difference is dramatic. I liked the endzone football shot where you actually get the wide receivers in the view with HDTV, but not with standard side.

Favorite Channels does some of what I said above I had hoped twin-view would do -- preview other channels while you watched one channel.
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post #1569 of 24004 Old 10-16-2005, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djwilso View Post

Hey Dixie, sounds like a perfect opportunity for that threesome you've always wanted to try.

Just kidding!

Dennis

I'll never look at an HDMI port the same way again.

Now, before we get any further into this discussion and this terribly useful thread gets locked -- how about that nonexistent SDE, eh?
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post #1570 of 24004 Old 10-16-2005, 07:19 PM
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I was just at BB and saw the 60 sony xbr it looks very nice. With that said I dont think it is worth the money for the same price there was a 72 toshiba that had the same if not better picture. They were both playing the hd playoff game between astros and cardinals. Dont get me wrong the picture looked great but it should have a more competitive price with tvs the same size as it. By the way I have a sony crt so dont think I am bias.
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post #1571 of 24004 Old 10-16-2005, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by john19 View Post

I was just at BB and saw the 60 sony xbr it looks very nice. With that said I dont think it is worth the money for the same price there was a 72 toshiba that had the same if not better picture. They were both playing the hd playoff game between astros and cardinals. Dont get me wrong the picture looked great but it should have a more competitive price with tvs the same size as it. By the way I have a sony crt so dont think I am bias.

I don't think you're bias. I think you were looking at a SXRD that was improperly calibrated. That's my guess..... Did you check the video settings?


My Dad thought the same thing until I had him go back to The Big Screen TV store in VA and change the settings to the ones recommended on this forum. He was leaning towards the new 62" Mits before changing these settings. The only thing that prevented him from a purchase was the idiot sales people would not budge from $4999.
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post #1572 of 24004 Old 10-16-2005, 10:37 PM
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I have the SXRD and it's easy to get a soft picture with the wrong settings. Tonight I experimented and found settings that give me a razor sharp picture.
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post #1573 of 24004 Old 10-16-2005, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by HomeGuy View Post

I have the SXRD and it's easy to get a soft picture with the wrong settings. Tonight I experimented and found settings that give me a razor sharp picture.

Care to share what settings you came up with?
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post #1574 of 24004 Old 10-17-2005, 04:46 AM
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I'll be posting them in the tweaks thread today.
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post #1575 of 24004 Old 10-17-2005, 05:48 AM
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I've had the 60'' for about 5 days, and It's incredible. But the SSE is really aggravating me. The set is like the second coming 90% of the time. But whenever a very bright scene, a flash of white, or a very white shirt comes. I see the SSE. And it just bothers the hell out of me. When I see this its just like the screen has very tiny specs of dust/dirt everywhere. And I'm sure it's not the feed but the screen because when I move my head I can see them shift.

Am I being too much of a stickler? Is my eyesight too damn good? (20/15) Or is it possible *gasp* that I might have a defective set?

Also is there anything I can do to minimize this SSE? Or perhaps somesort of a class or seminar that would teach me to cope and deal with it?

I'm going to go to the local good guys and see if their set is the same way... Is SSE bothering you guys?

55' HX800
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post #1576 of 24004 Old 10-17-2005, 06:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Heat View Post

XB1032,

I will try to answer your question as best i can. First off, I owned a Panasonic LCD 60' screen for about 4 months. At first I hated the panny because the blacks were sooooo washed out looking, it was unwatchable. After installing a ND filter to this set along with a good calibration, It was good enough to watch again, but still not perfect. After another member here suggested I consider the new Sony LCOS display for better black performance I did some research and then after seeing it in person I immediatly took back the Panny set and ordered the SXRD. I have since received the SXRD and all i can tell you is WOW!!! What an improvment. Blacks are black black and PQ is signifigantly better than the Panny. Overall this display is very CRT like and with a good HD feed the screen literally looks like a window that you could step through. All this and i have yet to change one setting, this is straight out of the box so imagine how much better with a little tweaking!!!
If you are still on the fence on these..... I know these sets are expensive but after you experience the awesome PQ and how deep the blacks are you won't be dissapointed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by manktank View Post

I may need to tweak my settings properly ( im hoping someone posts a good calibration setup for a totally dark room ). but my blacks are pretty black, but still don't disappear into the blackness of the room if you know what I mean, I can still tell where the edge of the screen is even if there is something that should be totally black displayed there. its very very very slight, and if anything blue (i turned down the blue bias in the white balance settings in pro, neutral color mode) but I don't know if its just screen gain or what.

Thanks for the responses! This is a question that just cannot be answered in the typical store.
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post #1577 of 24004 Old 10-17-2005, 06:02 AM
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Curt,

One of the other posters mentioned that after calibration , SSE was virtually non existant.

Have you calibrated your set? Also needs mentioning that you should calibrate your set in the same lighting that you normally view your set in.

Samsung 64F8500, Panasonic 65VT50, Oppo 95, Tivo Roamio for OTA, Dish VIP722, Marantz AV8801 preamp, Rotel Amps, Atlantic Tech 8200 speakers, Seaton Submersive HP, Calman 5, Chromapure, Accupel DVG-5000, VideoForge HDMI II, i1Display3pro, i1pro2, eecolor colorbox.
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post #1578 of 24004 Old 10-17-2005, 08:11 AM
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Thanks to this thread and this forum I was able to decide on a 50" SXRD on Saturday. Picked it up from the store, and after setting it up I barely moved all weekend.

I love this TV. SD looks decent (I'm very picky), and HD looks fantastic.
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post #1579 of 24004 Old 10-17-2005, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt Anderson View Post

I've had the 60'' for about 5 days, and It's incredible. But the SSE is really aggravating me. The set is like the second coming 90% of the time. But whenever a very bright scene, a flash of white, or a very white shirt comes. I see the SSE. And it just bothers the hell out of me. When I see this its just like the screen has very tiny specs of dust/dirt everywhere. And I'm sure it's not the feed but the screen because when I move my head I can see them shift.

Am I being too much of a stickler? Is my eyesight too damn good? (20/15) Or is it possible *gasp* that I might have a defective set?

Also is there anything I can do to minimize this SSE? Or perhaps somesort of a class or seminar that would teach me to cope and deal with it?

I'm going to go to the local good guys and see if their set is the same way... Is SSE bothering you guys?


It's not just you. SSE is the only reason that I will not by the SXRD this year -- I will wait and see if the SSE can be minimized in the next generation. Of all the microdisplays on the floor at UE, two things were clear:

1) The overall PQ on the SXRD sets was the most pleasing to my eye
2) The SSE effect on these sets was among the worst on the floor

I tweaked the SXRD setting for over two hours trying to minimize the effect in a fairly dark viewing environment. Nothing that I did lowered the SSE to a level that I found acceptable.

SSE is the only flaw that is distracting enough to prevent my purchase. I think maybe some people are just more sensitive to the effect than others. I, for one, am very sensitive to it. There's always next year.
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post #1580 of 24004 Old 10-17-2005, 09:27 AM
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So I got my 50" on Saturday and so far I'm loving it. HD is just insane on it and good DVD's via my Denon 1920 look near HD quality.

However, I do have a concern that I haven't seen anybody else mention yet. When an all black screen is up (either on an input with no feed or say a transition feed on DVD) or even a mostly black screen such as a black background with a title in the middle I see a difference in the blacks across the screen. In other words, it isn't a uniform black when it should be. I'll try to describe it and if possible get pictures of it tonight although I doubt I can really get any decent pictures of it b/c I'd be trying to capture a pretty much fully black screen.

What I'm seeing is that in the lower left corner and upper right corner the black is darker then anywhere else. They are kinda like a darker black "blob" that is maybe 1/5 or 1/6 of the screen size. It isn't a *huge* difference but it IS noticeable. Now soon as a there is an image there I can't notice a difference in the color. I tried throwing up some of test patterns from Avia such as the mostly all grey background and didn't notice any real difference in the color. Also when watching a 2.35 source with the narrow black bars it either isn't there or isn't really noticeable.

Has anybody else seen this on their sets? Is it just something to do with the design and I shouldn't worry about it? Or could I possibly have a defective set? I have adjusted the settings according to what some other folks have found to be good - but I haven't done a full run through Avia myself yet. Also, I thought at first maybe it was just an issue with viewing off the "ideal" angle. But if you look straight at it the "blobs" are still there - so I don't think that's the problem.

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post #1581 of 24004 Old 10-17-2005, 09:27 AM
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Those that are sitting on the fence thinking about waiting "til next year" might not be so lucky. What makes you so sure they're gonna do anything to change the SXRD? If these things sell like hot cakes do you think they're going to screw with it unless they are being seriously challenged by a competitor? Heck no. What do they care about SSE if every TV maker has this problem to some degree and for the most part the owners of the SXRD won't complain about it? You'll probably see incremental enhancements to keep up with the standard feature set found on TVs, for example, now that 1080p is becoming standard I'm sure every big TV next year will have the 1080p inputs (it probably costs nothing to do anyway). If they've got the best picture of any TV out there, I wouldn't be so quick to think they'll pour all their time and money into fixing a problem that obviously isn't slowing the sales down and impacts a small percentage of people negatively. Same goes for the speakers. Yeah these things seem like big problems, but look at the company you're in. We'd find anything to complain about. Things like the SSE or speaker "problems" aren't going to make a whole lot of difference to Joe Smith average consumer which is the target audience anyway. Why should Sony care as long as the demand for these TVs continues to outstrip the supply?
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post #1582 of 24004 Old 10-17-2005, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hstahl View Post

So I got my 50" on Saturday and so far I'm loving it. HD is just insane on it and good DVD's via my Denon 1920 look near HD quality.

However, I do have a concern that I haven't seen anybody else mention yet. When an all black screen is up (either on an input with no feed or say a transition feed on DVD) or even a mostly black screen such as a black background with a title in the middle I see a difference in the blacks across the screen. In other words, it isn't a uniform black when it should be. I'll try to describe it and if possible get pictures of it tonight although I doubt I can really get any decent pictures of it b/c I'd be trying to capture a pretty much fully black screen.

What I'm seeing is that in the lower left corner and upper right corner the black is darker then anywhere else. They are kinda like a darker black "blob" that is maybe 1/5 or 1/6 of the screen size. It isn't a *huge* difference but it IS noticeable. Now soon as a there is an image there I can't notice a difference in the color. I tried throwing up some of test patterns from Avia such as the mostly all grey background and didn't notice any real difference in the color. Also when watching a 2.35 source with the narrow black bars it either isn't there or isn't really noticeable.

Has anybody else seen this on their sets? Is it just something to do with the design and I shouldn't worry about it? Or could I possibly have a defective set? I have adjusted the settings according to what some other folks have found to be good - but I haven't done a full run through Avia myself yet. Also, I thought at first maybe it was just an issue with viewing off the "ideal" angle. But if you look straight at it the "blobs" are still there - so I don't think that's the problem.


I am getting the same thing on my set too. There are blue blobs in the lower right and upper left corner of the screens where it should be black. It kind of looks like there is a blue streak that also connects these blobs. Everyone can check on their own sites - when you power off the TV (before it shuts off completely) look at the blackness of the screen. It isn't uniform. It is noticeable when watching a very dark scene. Any ideas? I posted about this in the Tweaks thread as well.
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post #1583 of 24004 Old 10-17-2005, 10:44 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt Anderson View Post

I've had the 60'' for about 5 days, and It's incredible. But the SSE is really aggravating me. The set is like the second coming 90% of the time. But whenever a very bright scene, a flash of white, or a very white shirt comes. I see the SSE. And it just bothers the hell out of me. When I see this its just like the screen has very tiny specs of dust/dirt everywhere. And I'm sure it's not the feed but the screen because when I move my head I can see them shift.

Am I being too much of a stickler? Is my eyesight too damn good? (20/15) Or is it possible *gasp* that I might have a defective set?

Also is there anything I can do to minimize this SSE? Or perhaps somesort of a class or seminar that would teach me to cope and deal with it?

I'm going to go to the local good guys and see if their set is the same way... Is SSE bothering you guys?

What is your Brightness set at? At first I had mine from 25-31 but I noticed the whites would bloom sometimes and I would also notice the SSE on sky backgrounds but it was not bad. I have since lowered the brightness to 15 and I no longer get blooming whites and I have no SSE. These sets are super bright! For the ESPN sunday night game I turned my brightness to MIN and the SXRD looked like a big CRT tube. Brightness setting with the SXRD is a enemy. I also watched Alien vs Preadator on HBOHD and with the brightness setting at 15 I lost no shadow detail and the picture was great.
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post #1584 of 24004 Old 10-17-2005, 10:57 AM
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Need Help!- Sony KDSR-50XBR1 and RCA DTC100

I have a problem. There is a vga output on my RCA directv receiver, but when I plugged it into the VGA input on the SXRD, the picture was very small (literally 16x9 inches) and centered in the middle of the screen. Is this input for PCs only or can I make this work. Currently I have an adaptor that converts the VGA into component, but the picture is still not filling the screen. It has about 4 inches on either side. I have tried using the overscan option +2 to fix the problem, but i still have a bout 1/4" of a black bar on the right side. Any suggestions?
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post #1585 of 24004 Old 10-17-2005, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Curt,

One of the other posters mentioned that after calibration , SSE was virtually non existant.

Have you calibrated your set? Also needs mentioning that you should calibrate your set in the same lighting that you normally view your set in.

Which poster was that? I'd like to try his settings.

I've calibrated it with DVE, and some of the settings in the tweaks thread.

If there is a certain way to tweak it that would minimize it as much as possible... I'd love that.

55' HX800
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post #1586 of 24004 Old 10-17-2005, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by jkv4 View Post

What is your Brightness set at? At first I had mine from 25-31 but I noticed the whites would bloom sometimes and I would also notice the SSE on sky backgrounds but it was not bad. I have since lowered the brightness to 15 and I no longer get blooming whites and I have no SSE. These sets are super bright! For the ESPN sunday night game I turned my brightness to MIN and the SXRD looked like a big CRT tube. Brightness setting with the SXRD is a enemy. I also watched Alien vs Preadator on HBOHD and with the brightness setting at 15 I lost no shadow detail and the picture was great.

My brightness is pretty high, around the sony notch. I'll see if the brightness setting decreases my SSE, i'll start with 15.

Thanks

55' HX800
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post #1587 of 24004 Old 10-17-2005, 11:22 AM
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Those that are sitting on the fence thinking about waiting "til next year" might not be so lucky. What makes you so sure they're gonna do anything to change the SXRD?

Maybe they won't. Either way, it's no skin off my nose. If I never see any television that satisfies my high standards, I may never buy another one. I should probably stop watching so much television anyway.

But my thoughts are these: The newer display technologies are improving rapidly, and we're getting closer and closer to CRT caliber gray-scale tracking and better blacks (although we're not quite there yet) with none of the convergence and tunnel-vision issues. I'm waiting for a display device -- of any technology -- to satisfy my sense of cost/benefit. Not a perfect set, mind you, but one that does not have a flaw that smacks me in the face. The first monitor to do this may not be an SXRD at all. In a few years, maybe the "very large" plasmas will be more affordable, or maybe there will be some other technology that finally does it for me.

It's my decision to wait. If I wait for the rest of my life, that's my problem. I'm certainly not asking anyone else to wait with me.
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post #1588 of 24004 Old 10-17-2005, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt Anderson View Post

My brightness is pretty high, around the sony notch. I'll see if the brightness setting decreases my SSE, i'll start with 15.

Thanks

Let us know how it goes. I am very interested in whether or not you can get the SSE to go away and what your opinion is of the overall PQ once you have done this.
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post #1589 of 24004 Old 10-17-2005, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Bombthroat View Post

Alright, here are all the different resolutions I tested on the VGA port. These were all tested at 60Hz.

640 x 480 - Did not work at all
720 x 480 - Did work but reported as "Out of Range"
848 x 480 - Did not work at all
800 x 600 - Worked
1024 x 768 - Worked
1152 x 864 - Did not work, reported as "Out of Range"
1280 x 720 - Worked
1280 x 768 - Worked
1280 x 960 - Worked
1280 x 1024 - Worked
1360 x 768 - Worked - Filled most of the screen and appeared to be the best available resolution.
1360 x 1024 - Worked
1600 x 1200 - Did not fit properly on screen
1792 x 1344 - Did not fit properly on screen
1800 x 1440 - Did not fit properly on screen
1920 x 1080i - Came up but looked like total crap and reported as "Out of Range"
1920 x 1080p - Came up but looked like total crap and reported as "Out of Range"
1896 x 1392 - Did not fit properly on screen
1920 x 1200 - Did not fit properly on screen
1920 x 1440 - Did not fit properly on screen
2048 x 1536 - Did not fit properly on screen

These are all the resolutions I was able to test and their results. I was not able to test hooking the PC up to the HDMI port because I do not have a DVI to HDMI cable at this time.

I did test 1360 x 768 at 85Hz and it worked an looked beautiful. The only difference between the 60Hz and 85Hz settings was that the 60Hz setting filled much more of the screen space. So from that standpoint, I felt it looked better at 60Hz (more screen real estate).

Just to be clear, NONE of the resolutions tested were able to fill the screen in it's entirety.

My system was using an ATi video card with the latest Catalyst drivers (5.9).

I hope this helps someone who is on the fence and answers the questions outright for others.

I too noticed the same results, I then hooked up my DVI to HDMI cable and WAS able to fill the screen. However, when switching something on the PC to full screen mode, the entire picture was left of center. Anybody else see the same thing?

-Arv
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post #1590 of 24004 Old 10-17-2005, 12:09 PM
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I'm thinking about getting this set and currently sit at a 9' viewing distance. Which size set would be optimal for this viewing distance, 50 or 60?
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