Owners Tweaks & Settings Sony KDSR-50/60XBR1 - Page 46 - AVS Forum
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post #1351 of 1646 Old 07-17-2006, 11:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big J View Post

Detail Enhancer adds edge artifact (enhancement), but the DTE setting is different. I'm not sure quite how it works, but DTE adds texture and doesn't really effect the edges or give false contrast like the detail enhancer settings. I like DTE, and use it on low, but turn off detail enhancement.
J
J

On the effects of the DTE and Detail Enhancer controls:

These 2 controls are very different and if used properly can improve images quite a bit.
DTE: This is a texture enhancer -as you say. It's behavior is to control the LOW LEVEL very fine detail -or high frequency content in the image. Face detail and cloth texture are examples of very low amplitude high frequency video signals enhanced by this control. If an sharp edge of something comes along it is not enhanced because although the edge has high frequency content the amplitude of change from black to white or white to black is very high.--and is thus ignored by the circuits involved with this control.

I recommend that this control be typically set at the Low position with any good quality DVD or High definition sources. (Note that the amount of overall texture enhancement is finally set by the sharpness control).

Detail Enhancer: There is a significant difference between this control and the Sharpness control. The key difference is that this control operates on the image in the vertical as well as the horizontal direction. In other words it enhances vertical edges (horizontal enhancement) and horizontal edges (vertical enhancement). The sharpness control only enhances the vertical lines (Horizontal enhancement).
(This can be verified with the sharpness test pattern on the Avia disk).

It is normally good practice to enhance high quality images (if they need enhancement) in both the Horizontal and vertical direction equally, Therefore this control is a better choice than the use of only the sharpness control in most cases. But notice that the Sharpness adjustment controls the amount of effect the detail enhancer has on the image. So I recommend setting the Detail enhancer typically at Low and then dialing in the Sharpness control until the image looks right without edge outlining.

I hope this isn't too confusing but if one imagines that the fine small details are controlled by the DTE and H and V edge enhancement is controlled by the Detail Enhancement control and the amount of overall enhancement is finally set by the sharpness control perhaps it will make some sense. I believe the approach outlined here works well with both high quality DVD and 1080i sources.

Give these 3 controls a chance . They reall work well. From what I have seen no one else but Sony provides this kind of image detail control to the 1080p enthusiast.

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post #1352 of 1646 Old 07-18-2006, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KTTV Images View Post

On the effects of the DTE and Detail Enhancer controls:

These 2 controls are very different and if used properly can improve images quite a bit.
DTE: This is a texture enhancer -as you say. It's behavior is to control the LOW LEVEL very fine detail -or high frequency content in the image. Face detail and cloth texture are examples of very low amplitude high frequency video signals enhanced by this control. If an sharp edge of something comes along it is not enhanced because although the edge has high frequency content the amplitude of change from black to white or white to black is very high.--and is thus ignored by the circuits involved with this control.

I recommend that this control be typically set at the Low position with any good quality DVD or High definition sources. (Note that the amount of overall texture enhancement is finally set by the sharpness control).

Detail Enhancer: There is a significant difference between this control and the Sharpness control. The key difference is that this control operates on the image in the vertical as well as the horizontal direction. In other words it enhances vertical edges (horizontal enhancement) and horizontal edges (vertical enhancement). The sharpness control only enhances the vertical lines (Horizontal enhancement).
(This can be verified with the sharpness test pattern on the Avia disk).

It is normally good practice to enhance high quality images (if they need enhancement) in both the Horizontal and vertical direction equally, Therefore this control is a better choice than the use of only the sharpness control in most cases. But notice that the Sharpness adjustment controls the amount of effect the detail enhancer has on the image. So I recommend setting the Detail enhancer typically at Low and then dialing in the Sharpness control until the image looks right without edge outlining.

I hope this isn't too confusing but if one imagines that the fine small details are controlled by the DTE and H and V edge enhancement is controlled by the Detail Enhancement control and the amount of overall enhancement is finally set by the sharpness control perhaps it will make some sense. I believe the approach outlined here works well with both high quality DVD and 1080i sources.

Give these 3 controls a chance . They reall work well. From what I have seen no one else but Sony provides this kind of image detail control to the 1080p enthusiast.

KTTV Images

That's a great description!!

Thanks very much for the detail (ha ha).
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post #1353 of 1646 Old 07-18-2006, 06:05 AM
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KTTV - thanks for the input on DTE and Detail Enhancer. I think I had these both set to Off. I will try Low and try again.

The DVE disk has a "sharpness" image. Reminds me of an old test pattern from when the stations would go off the air. It is grey with black lines in almost a target patern. The lines going from the edge to the center have cross hatches. The example they use to illustrate shows a "halo" like effect when you have too much sharpness and it is fuzzy when it goes to low.

With DTE and Detail Enhance turned off anyway on my set...nothing changed. There appears to be almost a very light grey like halo around the black lines sort of like when the demo disk has too much sharpness. I will turn both DTE and Detail Enhance to Low tonight and try again. Someone earlier also recommended moving the DRC to 20,20 or higher.

On a positive note...I think I've got my audio part of my system (Outlaw Audio 990/7125 and NHT Evolution Speakers) closer to dialed in...just want the picture to look as good as it sounds.
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post #1354 of 1646 Old 07-19-2006, 06:04 AM
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OK, I set the DRC to 20,20, the DTE and Detail Enhancer to low. I think I can see some sharpness change but it is very very subtle. I'm starting to doubt my own expectations of this set. I've seen so many in the stores, read reviews/comments since last October, and really expected a bigger wow factor. Now that I've had some time with it directly, I'll go back to the AV store I got it from and use my own software for comparison. I'm thinking that is my next step.
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post #1355 of 1646 Old 07-19-2006, 06:57 AM
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heprat, now that you actually did see a change in sharpness by increasing the DRC to 20,20, try increasing it to 50,50 which should bring the dot directly in the middle of the square. Try the sharpness now.
When you go to the dealers I suggest bringing along your DVD player and test disc to verify on their set.
Every set out of the factory will be adjusted slightly different according to the tech making the adjustments, we all perceive things differently according to our eyes and likes/dislikes. Someone's set adjustments might be right for him and his tastes but not for the next guy/gal. Set the adjustments where the picture looks good to you.
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post #1356 of 1646 Old 07-21-2006, 05:54 PM
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I took my Oppo and DVE disk to the place I purchased my TV. Of course, like a dork I forgot the remote for the Oppo. I tried the DVE in the player they had fed to the TV. The sharpness image was very adjustable on their TV. (previously I reported that I could see a noticible change when adjusting the sharpness). I set their TV up the same way mine is.

Their DVD source was a new Samsung Blue Ray hooked up via component. The component hook up was a distribution network throughout the store...split to about 20 displays. I will take the Oppo back tomorrow, with the remote, to check the player on their TV.

If the sharpness can be adjusted on their TV with my Oppo...then there is a problem with my TV and they will send a tech to look at it. If it doesn't adjust I'm assuming the player is the culprit and will work towards replacing that.
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post #1357 of 1646 Old 07-21-2006, 07:01 PM
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another issue....I've been so "focused" on my lack of sharpness adjustability issue that I didn't notice that the image is not centered. Not horribly off but noticable. I can't find anything in the user servicable menus to modify this. big deal? fix?
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post #1358 of 1646 Old 07-22-2006, 07:10 AM
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found the Bchad centering fix...but I'm not ready to jump into a 3 week old TV to start doing that stuff....I'll let a pro handle that.
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post #1359 of 1646 Old 07-22-2006, 10:24 AM
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Chad B (and others),

I tried to send you a PM, but your PM box is full. Have you found the vertical and horizontal size adjustments? The starting VPOS and HPOS are fine, I just want to tone down the overscan.

Thanks in advance,

Jeff
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post #1360 of 1646 Old 07-22-2006, 12:04 PM
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I tried my Oppo on the stores display TV. No sharpness adjustment. Salesperson then told me that the SXRD via HDMI will not allow sharpness adjustment????
Sure enough. I go home, hook the Oppo up via component and have plenty of sharpness adjustment. Anyone else see this?

Should I consider a different DVD? Stick it out with the Oppo and upgrade to HD DVD or Blue Ray next year? Any thoughts would be appreciated.
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post #1361 of 1646 Old 07-24-2006, 05:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heprat View Post

I tried my Oppo on the stores display TV. No sharpness adjustment. Salesperson then told me that the SXRD via HDMI will not allow sharpness adjustment????
Sure enough. I go home, hook the Oppo up via component and have plenty of sharpness adjustment. Anyone else see this?

Don't believe this is correct. If so, Sony would have "grayed out" the sharpness adjustment for the HDMI inputs. My ISF tech adjusted sharpness and reset defaults for my HDMI inputs. HD Tivo set at "35" and DVD (upconverts to 1080i)set at "16".
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post #1362 of 1646 Old 07-24-2006, 06:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlb View Post

Don't believe this is correct. If so, Sony would have "grayed out" the sharpness adjustment for the HDMI inputs. My ISF tech adjusted sharpness and reset defaults for my HDMI inputs. HD Tivo set at "35" and DVD (upconverts to 1080i)set at "16".

rlb...what player are you using? when the tech set sharpness...did you see a change in the pattern? What I'm experiencing is that even though you can "adjust" the sharpness setting...I'm not seeing a change in the pattern.
Anyone else with a Oppo971/SXRD combo?
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post #1363 of 1646 Old 07-24-2006, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heprat View Post

rlb...what player are you using? when the tech set sharpness...did you see a change in the pattern? What I'm experiencing is that even though you can "adjust" the sharpness setting...I'm not seeing a change in the pattern.
Anyone else with a Oppo971/SXRD combo?

I use a Denon 2910 (HDMI to HDMI and upconverting to 1080i). I just tried with the Avia sharpness screen and I can see a change. Also tried with my HD Tivo (previously recorded HDTV adjustment screens) and I can see changes in the sharpness while adjusting. The changes are not large; but I can definitely create "white bands/shadows" if I adjust the sharpness too high. I normally adjust to where I can see the bands, then decrease sharpness to the point where they go away.
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post #1364 of 1646 Old 07-24-2006, 11:41 AM
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thanks rlb..."white bands/shadows" describes what I'm seeing all the time.
so...is this possibly an issue with the player?
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post #1365 of 1646 Old 07-24-2006, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlb View Post

I use a Denon 2910 (HDMI to HDMI and upconverting to 1080i). I just tried with the Avia sharpness screen and I can see a change. Also tried with my HD Tivo (previously recorded HDTV adjustment screens) and I can see changes in the sharpness while adjusting. The changes are not large; but I can definitely create "white bands/shadows" if I adjust the sharpness too high. I normally adjust to where I can see the bands, then decrease sharpness to the point where they go away.

Would you please tell me what Avia product you bought? I googled Avia and got several items. Thanks.
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post #1366 of 1646 Old 07-26-2006, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abredt View Post

Would you please tell me what Avia product you bought? I googled Avia and got several items. Thanks.

I use the Avia "Guide to Home Theater". However, I also have the Digital Video Essentials (DVE) "Optimize your Home Entertainment System". Each has various strong/weak points. If I had to choose between them, I would probably pick the DVE disc.
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post #1367 of 1646 Old 07-26-2006, 08:28 AM
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DVE is harder to navigate, but has good patterns when you get there.

Samsung 64F8500, Panasonic 65VT50, Oppo 95, Tivo Roamio for OTA, Dish VIP722, Marantz AV8801 preamp, Rotel Amps, Atlantic Tech 8200 speakers, Seaton Submersive HP, Calman 5, Chromapure, Accupel DVG-5000, i1Display3pro, i1pro2, eecolor colorbox.
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post #1368 of 1646 Old 07-26-2006, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

DVE is harder to navigate, but has good patterns when you get there.

I thought DVE was VERY confusing.

It was not easy to get where I wanted to go. Once I was there, I couldn't figure out how to get back there without going through all the previous stuff.

Maybe I'm just an idiot, but it seemed poorly designed from a useability standpoint. Not intuitive at all.
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post #1369 of 1646 Old 08-04-2006, 08:48 AM
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Did anyone ever figure out how to adjust vertical convergence? My green is off by the two pixels (if not slightly more) so finding that control would be great. I was able to fix the blue horizontal convergence with Chad B's instructions.

Thanks!
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post #1370 of 1646 Old 08-17-2006, 09:24 AM
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Hi guys,
I have had my SXRD for awhile now and know that my PQ just isn't as good as it should be. I have a HD TIVO, I just bought a Sony Home Theater System, and we have XBOX 360 so I really want it to look stellar. SD looks grainy and the HD look pretty darn good, but I'd like to get the latest and greatest settings. If you just want to paste a link to a previous post that would even be great, I've just been doing searches and get so confused. Sorry if this post is a repeat of many, but I really would appreciate your help.
Thanks! Michelle
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post #1371 of 1646 Old 08-17-2006, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KTTV Images View Post

Heprat
On your sharpness control problem:

There are 4 different Sharpness adjustments on the SXRD sets. In my experience this degree of control is outanding and unlike any other brand of 1080p dispaly I have seen.

1. Sharpness
2. DRC settings. Note that you must be inputting an interlaced signal because the DRC control is not accessible if the input is progressive.
3. DTE (Texture enhancement)
4. Detail Enhancer (Edge enhancement)

The amount of sharpness you setup on the last 3 controls is modified by the 1st control. In other words if you use lots of texture or/and Detail enhancement and some DRC and then set the Sharpness control to 0 there will be no sharpness enhancement at all. This leads to the point that to see if your sharpness control works you must increase the sharpness--only for test purposes - to maximum -and see if you see any differences

These sharpness controls have a very significant effect on the image. if you see no effect I worry that your set is defective. It is important to use a test image that easily can show the effect of sharpnesss. I am not aware of any specific sharpness test image on the DVE test disk.

What test image are you looking at when you try to adjust sharpness?

I think the best test image on DVE is the test with a large round circle a small cross in the middle. Look at the effect of sharpness on the edges of the cross in both the horizontal and vertical directions. Excess sharpness will produce a white outline around the lines. If your controls (set at maximum) do not produce this effect at all there has to be something wrong with the set. I hope this is not the case.

By the way the best sharpness test image is the Sharpness test image on the Avia test disk. The issue here is the amount of excessive ringing that appears on the vertical lines. This is a function of the DVD player with the best players showing very little ringing (perhaps 1 white outline) and with most players showing 3 rings on each side of the vertical lines.

Good luck

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KTTV - how do you have these four settings set on your television?
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post #1372 of 1646 Old 08-20-2006, 10:49 AM
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Any answers for the recent questions?
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post #1373 of 1646 Old 09-14-2006, 06:54 AM
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I am having a hard time deciding between the warm and neutral color settings, I'm in Pro mode. The warm sometimes looks good, but often looks bland with not enough contrast. The neutral get you enough contrast, but often looks too noisey. I know almost all of you reccomend the warm setting. Any ideas/reccomendations?
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post #1374 of 1646 Old 09-14-2006, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sl@cker View Post

I am having a hard time deciding between the warm and neutral color settings, I'm in Pro mode. The warm sometimes looks good, but often looks bland with not enough contrast. The neutral get you enough contrast, but often looks too noisey. I know almost all of you reccomend the warm setting. Any ideas/reccomendations?

anyone have an opinion?
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post #1375 of 1646 Old 09-14-2006, 01:22 PM
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Question regarding cleaning the SXRD screen. I purchased the Monster Screen Cleaning Kit, and was about to use it, but read this little orange piece of paper hidden in the packaging. It concerned me, so I didn't use the product. The Sony SXRD manual says warm water and soft cloth, but will that do the trick?

What is everyone doing to clean this screen??

Thanks!
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post #1376 of 1646 Old 09-14-2006, 02:35 PM
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Slacker,
Try setting to warm and go down on the R gain to -4 to -6 and the R bias to -2 to -4 and see if this helps (I hope I have those in the right order). I had my set ISF calibrated and, of course, it is set to warm. To get the greyscale right, he set gain and bias in the service menu after setting color temp to warm. The ISF settings took some getting used to as I preferred the neutral setting which introduces more blue. Now that I'm used to a properly calibrated greyscale and resulting colors, I wouldn't change it. It really makes a difference. I have tried neutral, but find I now prefer the proper settings. However, you are the one that needs to be satisfied with your picture and if you prefer the neutral setting, by all means use it.

To all of those that believe the SXRDs shouldn't need professional calibration, I assure you it is a significant improvement. One may be able to improve the picture with the DVDs for this purpose (as did I), but you can not get it exactly right without the proper analyzing equipment utilized by an experienced ISF person. I really see the difference. And if I want to change any of the user settings, I can. All I have to do is hit the reset on the remote and everything reverts back to the ISF settings he did in the service menu.
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post #1377 of 1646 Old 10-13-2006, 10:04 PM
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Has anyone quantified the effect of Clear White with any measurements?

Yes, calibration is important...every user should be calibrated.

Need electronics repair? A great place to start looking for a shop in your area:
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post #1378 of 1646 Old 10-29-2006, 05:11 PM
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interesting find today.

I got out my simple calibration disc...nothing fancy but store bought.
Its one i used to love but since coming here got dve.

anyway i decided to try it out because it has the best hue and color setup ever with color film piece to look thru. (nice and easy to use)

I did this because i have been disturbed by how something has been off with world of warcraft and i never could seem to get it right.

anyway the point of this is the hue is off on the set. 2 clicks towards red fixes her right up. funny thing is once i did this i actually was able to jack the color up!
The setting according to this disc was 34 which is crazy to me as my settigns were pretty much where all of you guys were.

so anyway i turned on the football games with these adjustments moved to the hdmi hd cable and with color knocked back to 33 WOWOWOWOWOWOW! what punch what richness.

I tried hjacking color up a bit before but it never was right because people didnt look right. now they do!

So i throw in a couple of dvds and they were just mindblowing just a hair off color for so long.

And most important World of Warcraft has exactly the rich color and richness now identical to every lcd monitor i ever played on.!

man i love this set . now i hop they dont screw up the ob repair when the part comes in...dam green color in the lower right such a small blemish on a georgous product.

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post #1379 of 1646 Old 10-31-2006, 06:14 AM
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What input are you using/adjusting?
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post #1380 of 1646 Old 10-31-2006, 08:04 AM
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disc for hdmi and component.

It seems that at least judging on my set that it is off as per sony. because it is extremly uniform over all the inputs.

I also now have played with that seeign while actually watching tv going between center and 2 clicks to red. and there is noooooo doubt that the faces turn greener and more unfleshlike at center. i also went to a friends house with another sxrd and the same setting was true to his set.

so imo it is off as per sony's default and not just my set.

my goodness man its 2 clicks, try it or dont. it doesnt have to be so techinical all the time lol.

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