Owners Tweaks & Settings Sony KDSR-50/60XBR1 - Page 55 - AVS Forum
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post #1621 of 1646 Old 12-18-2012, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiophyle View Post

does anybody think that the adjustments in Pro mode affect what is seen in the service menu? I've tweaked almost everything in there, to my satisfaction, but I wonder if the service menu values reflect what you set the user-accesible settings to.

service menu changes are global changes, user menu (e.g. Pro mode) changes are (additional) local changes for that input...

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post #1622 of 1646 Old 12-19-2012, 06:54 PM
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Oh ok so it's the other way around, kind of. Makes sense. I guess since each input can have it's own set of values it would have to work like that.
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post #1623 of 1646 Old 12-19-2012, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiophyle View Post

Oh ok so it's the other way around, kind of. Makes sense. I guess since each input can have it's own set of values it would have to work like that.

yeah. also the service menu can make adjustments the user menu (for each input) cannot and they affect every input.

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post #1624 of 1646 Old 12-26-2012, 10:12 AM
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Yeah makes sense. All this makes really want to get mine calibrated but it looks so good now I can't imagine it looking much better.
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post #1625 of 1646 Old 12-26-2012, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiophyle View Post

Yeah makes sense. All this makes really want to get mine calibrated but it looks so good now I can't imagine it looking much better.

I punched in yours and cinemaquoa service menu values into my XBR1... both horrible, at least on my set... yours were usable as a starting point for a new calibration, but just as is, horrible picture... now given every set is different (I had my optical block replaced twice in '06), but if you'd see the difference I have with your service menu values and mine now (manual greyscale / 6 point CMS calibration + 125-point Autocal with Lumagen Mini), u would not believe it... the picture is SO FANTASTIC, and due to the projection technology, all Blu-Rays look so like film... a dream...

since this model has limited CMS calibration tools, the Mini is desperately needed to get a better calibration as this set has huge blue issues...

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post #1626 of 1646 Old 12-27-2012, 07:19 AM
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Hi Iron Mike, here is my service menu adjustments that I got when using the HCFR program and a eye one lt meter

red gain 193
green gain 128
blue gain 128
red bias 125
green bias 128
blue bias 109
sub con 98
sub brt 125
adv iris medium
iris 3

in the 9 DRV section

bias_r 122
gain_b 100
bias_b 77
in order for me to get anything close to a linear grayscale I had to change these.

In another subject
recently my 60xbr1 has really dropped in brightness. the bulb has been in about a year and a half and was really bright at first then a couple of months ago
it dropped about half in brightness then a few weeks ago it dropped about another half. I had another bulb that I had in only about a few months and I put it in
and it was only measuring about 12 foot lamberts on my meter just like the other bulb. Is there something else possible with the tv other than the bulbs which
would cause the brightness to decrease so rapidly. I have the bulb setting to standard, not reduced.

thanks
Kevin.
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post #1627 of 1646 Old 12-27-2012, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cinquemano View Post

Hi Iron Mike, here is my service menu adjustments that I got when using the HCFR program and a eye one lt meter
red gain 193
green gain 128
blue gain 128
red bias 125
green bias 128
blue bias 109
sub con 98
sub brt 125
adv iris medium
iris 3
in the 9 DRV section
bias_r 122
gain_b 100
bias_b 77
in order for me to get anything close to a linear grayscale I had to change these.
In another subject
recently my 60xbr1 has really dropped in brightness. the bulb has been in about a year and a half and was really bright at first then a couple of months ago
it dropped about half in brightness then a few weeks ago it dropped about another half. I had another bulb that I had in only about a few months and I put it in
and it was only measuring about 12 foot lamberts on my meter just like the other bulb. Is there something else possible with the tv other than the bulbs which
would cause the brightness to decrease so rapidly. I have the bulb setting to standard, not reduced.
thanks
Kevin.

Hi cinquemano,

these values look very weird compared to mine after a traditional greyscale & 6-point calibration. Naturally there might be differences between our TV sets, but your RED GAIN at 193 (?!?) is way too high, also contrast at 98 is way too low, that's why ur screen has no brightness...

my contrast is usually between 136 - 144 depending on how old my lamp is, and then u have to check for clipping and make sure u don't set contrast too high and do not clip any of the channels (R/G/B)...

Which meter are you using ? An Eye One LT ?

Also, u have to turn EVERYTHING OFF (all enhancements, all color processing) in the user menu that u can access with the remote when u press the MENU button.... here's what I have setup in teh user menu PRIOR TO CALIBRATION:

Power Saving Mode: Standard
General Video
Picture Mode: Pro
Iris: 2
Picture: 58
Brightness: 31
Color: 31
Hue: 0
Sharpness: 0
Color Temperature: Warm
Noise Reduction: Off
Direct Mode: Off
Game Mode: Off
Advanced Video
DRC Mode: CineMotion
DRC Palette: Custom - 1 / 1
BN Smoother: Off
Advanced Iris: Off
Color Corrector: Off
DTE: Off
Clear White: Off
Detail Enhancer: Off
Black Corrector: Off
Gamma Corrector: Off
White Balance
all: 0

u could then decide to AFTER calibration to turn the Advanced Iris back on, but that will change ur calibration and nowadays I leave it off...

- M

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post #1628 of 1646 Old 12-27-2012, 03:56 PM
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Thanks Mike,

I have all my user menus just like yours except for the iris which i have at 3 and the advanced iris at medium.
I have my user menu for picture at 58 but when I use the spears and muncil disc to test for clipping if I go above 105 in the service menu for the sub_con setting it clips red and if I go above 110 it starts to bloom white.
I am using the eye one lt meter.
I have calibrated with the advanced iris off and the iris at 2 and I would get a great grayscale but the best gamma I could achieve was 1.95, the only way I could get a gamma near 2.22 was with the advanced iris on.
I have tried before to turn the contrast to near where you have yours and the brightness increased nicely but according to the test disc it was clipping really bad.
Yours doesn't clip any r/g/b channels at those levels?
thanks for you input
Kevin.
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post #1629 of 1646 Old 12-27-2012, 03:59 PM
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Mike, when you calibrated your set did you have to change any of the settings in the service menu section 9 DRV. I had to really adjust the blue otherwise I couldn't get any good grayscale.
Kevin.
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post #1630 of 1646 Old 12-27-2012, 04:24 PM
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Kevin.

what is the Eye One LT meter ? is that an old D2 ? if this is an old colorimeter, then it will have drifted by now and that will also mess up ur calibration a little bit...

you red clips b/c your red gain is way too high...

anyways, here's what I would do, turn off ADVANCED IRIS for calibrating (that u must do), u can turn it back on AFTER calibration.

then start off with audiophyles service menu values, and set contrast and brightness using contrast / brightness patterns and they will be around 140 (contrast) and 128 (brightness)... plus / minus 5-10

and yes, absolutely I changed A LOT in the 9 DRV menu to get a 2.2 gamma - the 9 DRV are GAMMA adjustments, so I worked a lot in there as well...

as a general point, your gain values in menu (2 WB) should never go above 130...

btw, here's are my values after a greyscale / 6 point calibration - they bring the set in a decent shape for what is possible with the limited CMS adjustment tools u have in the service menus. All other adjustments that are needed and can't be achieved in with the limited service menu tools are achieved with the Radiance Mini which is an external video processor:

(III.) WEM VERSION
(070) gamma fgap_gam. Spf
(008) UG_OFST0: 128
(009) UG_OFST1: 128
(010) UG_OFST2: 128
(011) UG_OFST3: 128
(012) UG_OFST4: 128
(013) UG_OFST5: 128
(014) UG_OFST6: 128
(015) UG_OFST7: 128
(016) UG_OFST8: 128
(017) UG_OFST9: 128
(018) UG_OFSTA: 128
(IV.) PANEL NVM OK
(2) WB
(3) R_GAIN: 107
(4) G_GAIN: 104
(5) B_GAIN: 96
(6) R_BIAS: 110
(7) G_BIAS: 93
(8) B_BIAS: 30
(9) SUB_CON: 144
(10) SUB_BRT: 126
(9) DRV
(3) DGAIN_R: 80
(4) BIAS_R: 106
(9) DGAIN_G: 81
(10) BIAS_G: 108
(15) DGAIN_B: 114
(16) BIAS_B: 40

these may not work for u, but on my set, everything (before the Mini is involved) looks really good, just 0-20% greyscale is slightly contaminated with yellow and there is no way to get rid of that with the CMS tool in the Sony (if u raise blue it will contaminate the upper greyscale with blue)... but that's why I got the Mini which solves that problem for me...

Btw, if u don't have a Mini, u could definitely up the blue a little but to get rid of the yellow contamination in the lower greyscale, as your eyes will less perceive / notice the slight blue contamination u have now caused in the middle / upper greyscale... I brought it in as close as possible for 80% of the greyscale, knowing I could fix the yellow issue with my Mini...


- M

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post #1631 of 1646 Old 12-27-2012, 04:54 PM
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Thanks Mike, I will try this.
The eye one lt may be an old d2, I calibrate it each time in the HCFR program though.
Looking at your numbers that must be why i can't get the sub con above 105 without clipping, with your lower drv and gain/bias numbers then i should be able to increase the contrast.
btw, what is the ug_ofs section in the service menu, where is that?
Also, what is the "mini"

Thanks
Kevin.
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post #1632 of 1646 Old 12-27-2012, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cinquemano View Post

Thanks Mike, I will try this.
The eye one lt may be an old d2, I calibrate it each time in the HCFR program though.
Looking at your numbers that must be why i can't get the sub con above 105 without clipping, with your lower drv and gain/bias numbers then i should be able to increase the contrast.
btw, what is the ug_ofs section in the service menu, where is that?
Also, what is the "mini"
Thanks
Kevin.

The Radiance Mini is an external video processor from Lumagen, which you would hook up to your TV and all other devices are hooked up to the Mini. The Mini offers a full calibration interface with all kind of tools (much much more than the Sony has) so u can adjust and tweak further... lots of calibration solution such as Calman and Chromapure now have a 125-point Auto calibration in combination with the Mini which dramatically improves things...

as stated in my last post, the UG_OFST are in the WEM VERSION service menu, which is the 3rd menu once u get into service menu and press the JUMP button... then u go to sub menu 70 and look at these numbers.... make sure all of these are 128... these are additional 10-point gamma adjustments, don't mess with these unless u know exactly what u're doing...

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post #1633 of 1646 Old 12-27-2012, 05:23 PM
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Thanks Mike, do you remember what your gamma reading was?
I like calibrating with the advanced iris off better than with it on and it would give a level gamma reading instead of the ragged one with it on. The problem I kept having was the screen when it was black would seem to have a bluish cast to it with the adv iris off but with the lower drive numbers I hope I can get that to go away and get a better gamma.

The white balance section is section 2 in the service menu so is the og_ofst section the section 3 right after section 2?

Sorry for the confusion.
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post #1634 of 1646 Old 12-27-2012, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cinquemano View Post

Thanks Mike, do you remember what your gamma reading was?
I like calibrating with the advanced iris off better than with it on and it would give a level gamma reading instead of the ragged one with it on. The problem I kept having was the screen when it was black would seem to have a bluish cast to it with the adv iris off but with the lower drive numbers I hope I can get that to go away and get a better gamma.
The white balance section is section 2 in the service menu so is the og_ofst section the section 3 right after section 2?
Sorry for the confusion.

u need to turn the advanced iris off when calibrating, and then u see the true issues of ur set... and yes, blue is the main issue with this set...

WB is the 2nd sub section of the FOURTH MAIN SECTION in the service menu (u press JUMP three times to get there)... the gamma offsets are in the THIRD MAIN SECTION in the service menu (so us press JUMP two times to get there)...

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post #1635 of 1646 Old 12-27-2012, 08:29 PM
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Mike,

I checked my ug_of numbers and they were all at 128.

I then changed the 9 DRV numbers to what you had and I was able to get the contrast to 136 before clipping and I lowered the bias and gain numbers to yours as a starting point.

The problem I am having is with the DVE blu ray disc on the 100% white screen my meter was only measuring a little over 6 foot lamberts.

I am really curious as to why it would be so low. I am wondering if there is something else wrong with my tv because I have tried 3 different bulbs and I can't get any brightness anymore.
Have you heard of this from anyone else?

Thanks
Kevin.
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post #1636 of 1646 Old 12-27-2012, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cinquemano View Post

Mike,
I checked my ug_of numbers and they were all at 128.
I then changed the 9 DRV numbers to what you had and I was able to get the contrast to 136 before clipping and I lowered the bias and gain numbers to yours as a starting point.
The problem I am having is with the DVE blu ray disc on the 100% white screen my meter was only measuring a little over 6 foot lamberts.
I am really curious as to why it would be so low. I am wondering if there is something else wrong with my tv because I have tried 3 different bulbs and I can't get any brightness anymore.
Have you heard of this from anyone else?
Thanks
Kevin.

no never heard that, but I know that over time, with the lamp getting older, the brightness does drop significantly....

One things is for sure, if u test out my settings, you have to use ALL of my settings (2 WB & 9 DRV) as they work in conjunction with each other, u cannot use just some of it...

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post #1637 of 1646 Old 12-28-2012, 05:18 AM
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Mike, I used your 2 WB and 9 DRV numbers. When you were adjusting white balance did you adjust green gain/bias as well as red/blue or just red and blue gain/bias. I have read that one should only adjust red/blue and leave green alone as adjusting green only affects contrast and brightness. When I used your WB settings my red/blue gain/bias numbers were not nearly as high.
thanks
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post #1638 of 1646 Old 12-28-2012, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cinquemano View Post

When I used your WB settings my red/blue gain/bias numbers were not nearly as high.
thanks

What do u mean by that ? red and blue is undersaturated ?

I did use all controls (including green), otherwise there was no way to get this under control...

- M

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post #1639 of 1646 Old 12-28-2012, 06:11 PM
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Sorry for the confusing statement Mike, what I meant to say is that by me not adjusting green gain/bias I would have to raise red a lot to get green down to a manageable level. But by adjusting green as you did
I was able to keep red down.
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post #1640 of 1646 Old 12-28-2012, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cinquemano View Post

Sorry for the confusing statement Mike, what I meant to say is that by me not adjusting green gain/bias I would have to raise red a lot to get green down to a manageable level. But by adjusting green as you did
I was able to keep red down.

yeah cool, just keep in mind if the Eye One LT is an older colorimeter, it will have drifted by now, so ur calibration is only as accurate as your meter... u could profile it against a spectro to gain accuracy...

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post #1641 of 1646 Old 12-29-2012, 06:08 AM
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Mike, I put in a brand new bulb in my tv yesterday even if I put the tv in vivid mode the highest footlamberts I could get was around 20 whereas last year when I put a new bulb in I was getting over 40 easy. For an experiment I increased the contrast to well over 200 the most it would go to was 25. I checked my meter on my panasonic plasma and it was measuring around 35.

Is it possible there is something wrong with the tv's light output? Or are there settings in the service menu to check to see if the lamp settings are the way they should be?

You mentioned the spectro meter, does it drift over time?

Thanks
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post #1642 of 1646 Old 12-29-2012, 06:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cinquemano View Post

Mike, I put in a brand new bulb in my tv yesterday even if I put the tv in vivid mode the highest footlamberts I could get was around 20 whereas last year when I put a new bulb in I was getting over 40 easy. For an experiment I increased the contrast to well over 200 the most it would go to was 25. I checked my meter on my panasonic plasma and it was measuring around 35.
Is it possible there is something wrong with the tv's light output? Or are there settings in the service menu to check to see if the lamp settings are the way they should be?
You mentioned the spectro meter, does it drift over time?
Thanks

I don't know of any lamp settings in the service menu that would reduce the 'light output', but it appears you do have a problem... spectros drift too, but usually less than colorimeter... Maybe try contacting Sony...

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post #1643 of 1646 Old 12-29-2012, 07:50 AM
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Yea, the optical block was changed in 2008 and it has performed very well, do you think the optical block affects light output?
Thanks
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post #1644 of 1646 Old 12-29-2012, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cinquemano View Post

Yea, the optical block was changed in 2008 and it has performed very well, do you think the optical block affects light output?
Thanks

I'm not the right person to ask about that, but I would guess it does affect light output... mine was replaced twice in 2006... all good still but there are some (very light) small contamination areas on the sides of the screen area...

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post #1645 of 1646 Old 07-05-2013, 07:02 PM
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Kind of a dead thread but I though I'd try a question. I delayed putting in my TriState OB in my 60-XBR1 so I can't return it now. So, I finally install it and have NO yellow, green is off, blue is also way off but red is ok. I had the yellow stain really bad and may have ran it too long with the bad OB. First question could I have burned out something else? The "new" OB should have given me better results.
They must of sent me the newer/redesigned OB because the circuit board compared to the original is way different. The panels were 1-red and 2-green. I read they were inter-changeable (no blue), is this true?
I've messed around in the Service Menu but I cant seem to get the colors correct. I wonder if changing the OB circuit board with the original would work. Any ideas? TIA.

All stuff working
and talking to each other............
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post #1646 of 1646 Old 07-06-2013, 11:43 AM
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I'll reply to myself.
Those SOBs at Tri-State put the WRONG board on the OB!! I wasted nearly 3-days taking apart this set can't believe it! Put the old board in and voila colors are back. Now my Service Menu is probably all messed up but I wrote down the defaults and the good folk here have some good settings info..

So for anyone that has their "remanufactured" OBs and is having trouble with the colors its the board. I don't understand how QC can be so awful at a company whose main business is to produce this stuff. Not that is going to matter but I'm sending a strongly worded email to them so maybe they won't do this to someone else. I say stay away from this company but when your almost the sole-source for this stuff how can we?

All stuff working
and talking to each other............
vegasmach1 is offline  
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