The Official HP Pavilion 1080P DLP Owner's Thread - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 10891 Old 10-25-2005, 08:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by HaloBox View Post

I have reported posts and threads but have never received a reply.

I've done the same many times and the only ones I've seen disappear had obvious racist overtones.

In the moderators defense, there is a fine line that when crossed appears to be censorship.
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post #632 of 10891 Old 10-25-2005, 08:14 AM
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Besides the ones already mentioned, does anyone know if any major retailers will be carrying these sets? I don't live in an area near a Good Guys or Ken Cranes, and I'd really like to see it in person before I pull the trigger.
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post #633 of 10891 Old 10-25-2005, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by DarrellH View Post

Yeah, it was/is disappointing. I tried everything including 3 receivers and all kinds of settings yet nothing worked. When the DVD player was set to output DTS, absolutely nothing was passed on the coaxial digital output

As to ambiguity... can't you let me be non-confrontational if I want to be

Did you buy the cheap LG or the cheap Sony DVD player?



I got the even cheaper Toshiba at Costco...$79, for testing purposes...
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post #634 of 10891 Old 10-25-2005, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Shadow View Post

Just playing Devil's Advocate here to your post . I think the key is "HDMI sending 5.1 on HDMI should allow output of 5.1" From what I've read elsewhere in this thread, a LOT of manufacturers are not sending 5.1 over HDMI yet.

As I mentioned in previous post though, I'm digging around trying to get confirmation.

THanks, Shadow...that would be useful to confirm. As far as I can tell, the Tosh DVD player I'm futzing with does do 5.1 out via HDMI. It does state it is HDMI 1.1 compliant...not sure what the diff is between 1.1 and 1.2 (I believe you or someone said the set is 1.2 compliant).

On your other message you said it may be that it only does 5.1 on OTA or CableCard sources...seems wierd that it would be restricted to that and not at least include direct cable sources as well...

Looking forward to more clarity. (And an update of the manual is likely in order to communicate more clearly.)
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post #635 of 10891 Old 10-25-2005, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by DarrellH View Post

Or, just ask whatever questions you might hope to find in the manual and we will answer them

THere is some (limited) information here under setup and install, how to use, and product information...not the entire manual online, however.

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/p...&lang=en&cc=us
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post #636 of 10891 Old 10-25-2005, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by DarrellH View Post

I've done the same many times and the only ones I've seen disappear had obvious racist overtones.

In the moderators defense, there is a fine line that when crossed appears to be censorship.

Part of the problem is the way this site is organized. Since the normal mode of operation here is to have these HUGE threads on a particular series of devices, thread locking never happens.

If for instance there was a HP forum, we could have a bunch of fun threads. For instance, we could have a thread on HDMI passing of Dolby Digital. The thread could ebb and flow all it wants. If someone hoses the thread because they are a jerk, a moderator could edit their post(s) or lock the thread.

Facts born from the threads should be bubbled to a FAQ. For instance, a HTPC FAQ for the MDxx80n series would be good.

These types of actions require moderators that will devote time and good judgement. I see no shortage of moderator candidates here. I do however see a lack of organization and action.
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post #637 of 10891 Old 10-25-2005, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FabFla View Post

Why is it so ? does it mean the real resolution of the TV is closer to 18..x1044 than 1920x1080 ?

Does this problem only affect PCs ? Or are we likely to get overscan with X360 and PS3 as well ?

If it's only a PC problem... with Powerstrip, can you set a game's resolution to 1920x1080, then have powerstrip send it as 18..x1044 to the TV ? doesnt that create too much processing on one side, slowing the game down ?

You will get overscan with every source. You can read more about this issue at:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8&page=1&pp=30

With PC input, there is no need for PowerStrip anymore. The latest drivers from nVidia and ATI have practically rendered PowerStrip obsolete.
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post #638 of 10891 Old 10-25-2005, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danabw View Post

THanks, Shadow...that would be useful to confirm. As far as I can tell, the Tosh DVD player I'm futzing with does do 5.1 out via HDMI. It does state it is HDMI 1.1 compliant...not sure what the diff is between 1.1 and 1.2 (I believe you or someone said the set is 1.2 compliant).

On your other message you said it may be that it only does 5.1 on OTA or CableCard sources...seems wierd that it would be restricted to that and not at least include direct cable sources as well...

Looking forward to more clarity. (And an update of the manual is likely in order to communicate more clearly.)

Okay, here's what I've been able to find out:
The Digital output will pass 5.1 audio only from CableCARD, Clear QAM cable, or OTA HDTV inputs (eg. Digital tuner inputs). It will only pass 2.0 audio from an HDMI input. Users that wish to obtain full 5.1 audio from a DVD player with HDMI should connect their DVD player 5.1 digital audio output directly to their audio receiver, bypassing the TV.

Hopefully this puts a rest to the 5.1 debate Now, onto more important debates: nachos or cheesypoofs for the football party!
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post #639 of 10891 Old 10-25-2005, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by lorelevitt View Post

I think the lack of 1080P on the HDMI/HDCP input along is enough to rule out the Samsung DLPs. I'm comforable relying in the PQ assessments of both professional reviewers such as the S&V review and the home users on this forum. All DLPs lack the electronics to do pixel-mapped adaptive motion deinterlacing of 1080i to 1080p. This requires extensive video processing of a GENNUM or REALTA parallel processor. The addition of this kind of external deinterlacing would be quite noticable in scenes with rapid motion-- sports, action movies, etc. While I agree that the current pricing of these external devices ($ 2899 for the Calibre Vantage-HD) is high for the average user, I expect the price will drop significantly in the next 24 months and that less expensive devices using these chips will appear. At that point, one could easily plug their source inputs into the external processor and let it feed the HP at 1080P.

Additionally the forthcoming Blu-Ray players will possibly output 1080P; certainly the Sony PSP3 containing a Blu-Ray player will.

With the availabilty for the end user to replace the bulb ($350) on these sets and their near 1920x1080 resolution, I would agree with HP's web site that a purchase of one of their sets is "future proofing" one's investment. I have strongly discouraged a number of my friends from investing in any high-end rear projector system that lacks 1080P input over HDMI/HDCP.

Samsung 1080p sets will accept 1080p over VGA just fine, and produce a stunning picture. I would argue that Samsung 1080p sets are ideal for those who want to have HTPC in their system and still have two additional HDMI inputs for other sources. And the bulb can be replaced by end users for $200.

For those who intend to connect only HTPC, HP 1080p sets are perfect because they allow an all digital connection from the source to the TV. HP sets are also perfect for those who do not want to connect HTPC at all because they have two excellent HDMI inputs. The only thing that is subpar on HP sets is the perfunctory VGA input.

Finally, your point is well taken for those who intend to spend additional chunk of money on external video processor. I will not argue here; HP sets will allow you to connect these devices via HDMI at 1080p, and you can then use external video processor not only to improve video quality but also to switch inputs. But, I suspect that the market for these devices is going to be very small given the needs and perceptions of average users. Hence, the price may remain high.

Feel free to rely on the assessment of professional reviewers or home users on this forum. However, if they make comparisons between two sets, make sure they have actually reviewed both. In the case of Samsung and HP sets, I have yet to see this happen.

Oh, BTW, don't hold your breath with respect to Blu-Ray support for 1080p. As for Sony PS3, it would be best to reserve judgement until they actually ship.
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post #640 of 10891 Old 10-25-2005, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by The Shadow View Post

Now, onto more important debates: nachos or cheesypoofs for the football party!

If you are watching the UT Longhorns, supreme nachos are appropriate. If watching the Dallas Cowboys, cheesypoofs.
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post #641 of 10891 Old 10-25-2005, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by sdv5 View Post

Samsung 1080p sets will accept 1080p over VGA just fine, and produce a stunning picture. I would argue that Samsung 1080p sets are ideal for those who want to have HTPC in their system and still have two additional HDMI inputs for other sources. And the bulb can be replaced by end users for $200.

For those who intend to connect only HTPC, HP 1080p sets are perfect because they allow an all digital connection from the source to the TV. HP sets are also perfect for those who do not want to connect HTPC at all because they have two excellent HDMI inputs. The only thing that is subpar on HP sets is the perfunctory VGA input.

Finally, your point is well taken for those who intend to spend additional chunk of money on external video processor. I will not argue here; HP sets will allow you to connect these devices via HDMI at 1080p, and you can then use external video processor not only to improve video quality but also to switch inputs. But, I suspect that the market for these devices is going to be very small given the needs and perceptions of average users. Hence, the price may remain high.

Feel free to rely on the assessment of professional reviewers or home users on this forum. However, if they make comparisons between two sets, make sure they have actually reviewed both. In the case of Samsung and HP sets, I have yet to see this happen.

Oh, BTW, don't hold your breath with respect to Blu-Ray support for 1080p. As for Sony PS3, it would be best to reserve judgement until they actually ship.

Nice post, sdv5...clear, balanced, and easy to understand. Thanks.
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post #642 of 10891 Old 10-25-2005, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by HaloBox View Post

If you are watching the UT Longhorns, supreme nachos are appropriate. If watching the Dallas Cowboys, cheesypoofs.

I'm shocked that pork rinds didn't come up...I thought Texans practically lived on them.
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post #643 of 10891 Old 10-25-2005, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by AVIDAV View Post

Forget the Qualia for a moment(unquestionably best PQ especially if you take 70in screen into account). The 65" HP has a screen 80%+ bigger than SXRD and w/discounts can also be had for $4k. If you read full review you'll see that reviewer at least as enthusiastic about HP as SXRD(and in fact compares HP directly to Qualia PQ directly) Additionaly, anybody looking to future, the SXRD's minuses can be pretty large(and whats w/no strength meter).

If you compare the 60 SXRD to the 65 HP it is about 18% larger in area and to the 50 its 69% larger. This set is good without exaggerating its virtues and the 60in SXRD can be had for about $3900 with no rainbows.

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post #644 of 10891 Old 10-25-2005, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by RDO CA View Post

If you compare the 60 SXRD to the 65 HP it is about 18% larger in area and to the 50 its 69% larger. This set is good without exaggerating its virtues and the 60in SXRD can be had for about $3900 with no rainbows.

Roy

No rainbows here w/my set for my family...some see 'em, some don't, and some DLP sets may be less prone.

They are both good TVs, with respective strengths/weaknesses...gotta say, my subjective opinion is that the Sony's "ears" are pretty ugly, while the HP looks great. Others may dislike the black HP sets, of course.
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post #645 of 10891 Old 10-25-2005, 11:04 AM - Thread Starter
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I updated the first post with more info, etc. If I missed anything, please chime in
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post #646 of 10891 Old 10-25-2005, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdv5 View Post

You will get overscan with every source. You can read more about this issue at:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8&page=1&pp=30

With PC input, there is no need for PowerStrip anymore. The latest drivers from nVidia and ATI have practically rendered PowerStrip obsolete.

I have an ATI card so I can't speak for nVidia, but PowerStrip isn't as obsolete as you might think. ATI will let you create custom resolutions based off of 720p and 1080i, but it will not let you create one based off of 1080p. It includes 1080p in the HDTV support menu, but that's all you get - 1920 X 1080/60 Hz. You cannot get the perfectly sized 1856 X 1044/60 Hz through the catalyst control center.
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post #647 of 10891 Old 10-25-2005, 11:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danabw View Post



I got the even cheaper Toshiba at Costco...$79, for testing purposes...

If you are looking for a cheap one that works well with our set, I'm very happy with the Sony DVP-NS70H. It doesn't seem to have the shift issue on the HP sets that it has on the Sony sets. Go figure
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post #648 of 10891 Old 10-25-2005, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reldan View Post

I have an ATI card so I can't speak for nVidia, but PowerStrip isn't as obsolete as you might think. ATI will let you create custom resolutions based off of 720p and 1080i, but it will not let you create one based off of 1080p. It includes 1080p in the HDTV support menu, but that's all you get - 1920 X 1080/60 Hz. You cannot get the perfectly sized 1856 X 1044/60 Hz through the catalyst control center.

I took ATI out and now have nVidia 6600GT in my HTPC. So, you are saying that the latest ATI driver does not have the option for automatic overscan correction at 1080p. Well, that is too bad because one then must fiddle with PowerStrip. I was surely thrilled to get rid of it.

Thanks for bringing up this important point for ATI users.
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post #649 of 10891 Old 10-25-2005, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdv5 View Post

Samsung 1080p sets will accept 1080p over VGA just fine, and produce a stunning picture. I would argue that Samsung 1080p sets are ideal for those who want to have HTPC in their system and still have two additional HDMI inputs for other sources. And the bulb can be replaced by end users for $200.

For those who intend to connect only HTPC, HP 1080p sets are perfect because they allow an all digital connection from the source to the TV. HP sets are also perfect for those who do not want to connect HTPC at all because they have two excellent HDMI inputs. The only thing that is subpar on HP sets is the perfunctory VGA input.

Finally, your point is well taken for those who intend to spend additional chunk of money on external video processor. I will not argue here; HP sets will allow you to connect these devices via HDMI at 1080p, and you can then use external video processor not only to improve video quality but also to switch inputs. But, I suspect that the market for these devices is going to be very small given the needs and perceptions of average users. Hence, the price may remain high.

Feel free to rely on the assessment of professional reviewers or home users on this forum. However, if they make comparisons between two sets, make sure they have actually reviewed both. In the case of Samsung and HP sets, I have yet to see this happen.

Oh, BTW, don't hold your breath with respect to Blu-Ray support for 1080p. As for Sony PS3, it would be best to reserve judgement until they actually ship.

Actually on Blu-Ray, the real issue being discussed is what will be the encoding format on the disc itself? Will it be 1080i, 1080p60, 1080p24, etc. If the disc is encoded at 1080i but the Blu-Ray player does the deinterlacing to 1080p for 1080p output, I would prefer the native 1080i output to feed into an external deinterlacer. I think this will remain an open question for awhile.

As to the Samsung accepting 1080p over their VGA inputs, VGA is an analog format not a digital format, developed 18 years ago in 1987 by IBM for cathode ray displays. That's why DVI inputs started appearing a few years ago for LCD computer displays-- so that the digital representation in the computer could be written to the exact pixel locations on the monitor. You will NEVER get the sharpness or accuracy from an A/D conversion of an analog signal to a digital represenation for painting a digital display. Even if you're only into gaming, you would still see sharper representions if the digital image is kept digital all the way from its generation to display. As for using HTPC's for displaying movies--forget about sticking a Blu-Ray player in your computer and displaying a HD-quality movie over a VGA line. Everything will be encrypted by HDCP and will ONLY pass over a DVI or HDMI link. If you only want to display current DVD's on your television-- I guess the Samsung would suffice-- its somewhat short-term focused though for alot of the readers to this forum.

As for the next version of Microsoft Windows -- VISTA--they are building in alot of DRM (digital rights management) stuff and that again will only pass over a DVI/HDMI connection. If fact you wont be able to view HD movies on VISTA unless you buy a NEW LCD monitor with HDMI/HDCP capability-- and I certainly don't want to see the pissed off looks when every finds that out!

I just don't understand why anyone would want to settle for 1080p over an analog VGA interface if you take the larger picture of what's happening in the industry over the next 18 months.

Oh--BTW-- I know of nothing in the microelectronics industry that doesn't take a big price cut every 2 years-- I do believe that external scalers will become common place by early 2008 or be incorporated into set top boxes. Now if you plan to replace your set in only 24-36 months-- this "future proofing" that HP refers to is irrelevant.
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post #650 of 10891 Old 10-25-2005, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reldan View Post

The good news is that I downloaded powerstrip and created a custom resolution of 1856 X 1044. Then I set the HP Aspect Ratio to "Studio" Now I guarantee that this is 1:1 Pixel Mapping. See the two new shots for what it looks like. The first is my entire desktop - it fits perfectly on the screen at 1856 X 1044, the second is a close-up where you can see the test pattern clearly.

From what site did you download powerstrip?

THANK YOU!!!
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post #651 of 10891 Old 10-25-2005, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lorelevitt View Post


As for the next version of Microsoft Windows -- VISTA--they are building in alot of DRM (digital rights management) stuff and that again will only pass over a DVI/HDMI connection. If fact you wont be able to view HD movies on VISTA unless you buy a NEW LCD monitor with HDMI/HDCP capability-- and I certainly don't want to see the pissed off looks when every finds that out!

There is a lot more to this particular discussion. Suffice it to say that this issue is not limited to Vista. Apple will have to support HDCP policies which are set by the content owners, not Microsoft or Apple. The content owner chooses to display the content or not for devices that don't support HDCP.
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post #652 of 10891 Old 10-25-2005, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HaloBox View Post

There is a lot more to this particular discussion. Suffice it to say that this issue is not limited to Vista. Apple will have to support HDCP policies which are set by the content owners, not Microsoft or Apple. The content owner chooses to display the content or not for devices that don't support HDCP.

For the techies out there, they might like to read the following:

http://www.drmwatch.com/special/article.php/3529586

And download the following PPT presentations

http://download.microsoft.com/downlo...1_WinHEC05.ppt

http://download.microsoft.com/downlo...2_WinHEC05.ppt

http://download.microsoft.com/downlo...4_WinHEC05.ppt

http://download.microsoft.com/downlo...6_WinHEC05.ppt
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post #653 of 10891 Old 10-25-2005, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lexx View Post

Sharon

Be very careful before you ever think of buying this machine.

There are numerous discussions going on in various forums about the HVD2085. Here's a sample discussion on AVS If you can get a couple of months usage out of this DVD player, you're doing well.

You get what you pay for has never been truer.

Thanks, Lexx.

I was just trying to contribute info.. Sorry, didn't know of problems w. this player. After learning from more senior members I plan to set up HTPC and use internal DVD player with software to upgrade signal;

Zoomplayer is shareware which costs $20 for a full license. DScaler is a free DVD decoder which is considered by many to have the best quality of any out there, free or not. FFDShow is a magical program which is also free and allows users to do amazing amounts of real-time post-processing on video - such as upscaling, sharpening, and noise reduction.

This was posted in this thread and I've not yet had time to read HTPC threads to find where I can download software.

Any help would be MUCH appreciated!
THANKS!!!
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post #654 of 10891 Old 10-25-2005, 12:38 PM
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Now that we seem to know the skinny on HDMI and 5.1, I'm hoping one of you owners can tell us how the set seems to be performing w/ respect to lip sync.

The number one thing I would use this set for would be watching DVDs. If I connect an upconverting DVD player w/ HDMI to the TV, and run digital coaxial cable to my receiver, what kind of synch issues should I expect?

For anyone who says that they are seeing no issues, what DVD player and receiver are you using?

Thanks.
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post #655 of 10891 Old 10-25-2005, 12:42 PM
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post #656 of 10891 Old 10-25-2005, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdv5 View Post

Again, where are those comparisons that show HP blowing away Sammy in PQ? The word Samsung isn't even mentioned in the above post. To the best of my knowledge, Sound & Vision has never tested Samsung 1080p set (someone please correct me if I am wrong).

Here's what to do:

1) Set up both HP and Samsung to show their maximum potential, which means both sets professionally calibrated.

2) Feed both sets the exact same signal.

3) Draw conclusions.

Until this is done, I would suggest that all comparisons be taken with a grain of salt. Please don't walk into a store, take a quick look at these sets, and draw conclusions. All 1080p sets are capable of producing remarkable picture quality especially when set up properly at home.

I've wondered myself why they didn't test a Sammy 1080P. The only thing I can think of is that when Samsung introduced the first DLP RPTV they pretty much had the market to themselves for a year and S&V may be burned out on them especially because they became the biggest player in DLP but didn't introduce a model that would accept 1080P over DLP. This is my fourth year of having a Sammy and have put over 10000 hours on bulb, so obviously i don't hate Sammys. I think what your seeing on an HP thread is consumers responding to the whole package the HP has provided.
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post #657 of 10891 Old 10-25-2005, 12:57 PM
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As of 4:00pm EST HPshopping is still out of stock of both the MD5880N and the MD6580N. ETA: 1st week of November.
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post #658 of 10891 Old 10-25-2005, 12:59 PM
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sdv5,

Does the nVidia 6600GT have component out?

If so, would you do some testing to determine the capabilities of the HP's component inputs?

Are there any differences between the HTPC's DVI=>HDMI connection, and the straight Component-to-Component connection?

Thanks,

J.T.
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post #659 of 10891 Old 10-25-2005, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lorelevitt View Post


[...]

As to the Samsung accepting 1080p over their VGA inputs, VGA is an analog format not a digital format, developed 18 years ago in 1987 by IBM for cathode ray displays. That's why DVI inputs started appearing a few years ago for LCD computer displays-- so that the digital representation in the computer could be written to the exact pixel locations on the monitor. You will NEVER get the sharpness or accuracy from an A/D conversion of an analog signal to a digital represenation for painting a digital display. Even if you're only into gaming, you would still see sharper representions if the digital image is kept digital all the way from its generation to display. As for using HTPC's for displaying movies--forget about sticking a Blu-Ray player in your computer and displaying a HD-quality movie over a VGA line. Everything will be encrypted by HDCP and will ONLY pass over a DVI or HDMI link. If you only want to display current DVD's on your television-- I guess the Samsung would suffice-- its somewhat short-term focused though for alot of the readers to this forum.

[...]

Sure, keeping the signal in digital format all the way is the ideal solution. However, DAC and ADC have been done for a very long time, and are very simple to accomplish with great fidelity. It appears that you have never seen a Samsung 1080p set connected to HTPC via VGA. It is simply stunning.

Also, it will be a very, very long time before I will be able to put a Blu-Ray player into my computer at all. At the time being, Microsoft and Intel are planning to support HD-DVD, having declared Blu-Ray computer unfriendly.

As I mentioned before, the VGA input at 1080p is truly excellent for HTPC, and Samsung sets will be perfect for those folks who want to connect a computer and still have two free HDMI inputs. For the foreseeable future, 1080i into HDMI will be the norm for external sources, e.g., DVD players and set-top boxes. HD-DVD will output at 1080i (confirmed), and I believe that Blu-Ray will do the same once the dust settles.

The commercial success of new DVD formats is by no means guaranteed, and the format war is only making things worse. The majority of consumers may conclude that upconverted 480i DVDs look just great especially when they are produced well. In the audio realm, SACD and DVD-Audio ended up in limbo. To add insult to injury, compressed CD music (MP3) is gaining momentum big time. It remains to be seen just how successful the new DVD format will be (whatever format ends up being chosen).

Best of luck with your forthcoming purchase of external scaler. I am sure it will provide you with outstanding picture.
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post #660 of 10891 Old 10-25-2005, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaveCanem View Post

sdv5,

Does the nVidia 6600GT have component out?

If so, would you do some testing to determine the capabilities of the HP's component inputs?

Are there any differences between the HTPC's DVI=>HDMI connection, and the straight Component-to-Component connection?

Thanks,

J.T.

Yes, nVidia 6600GT (at least my MSI brand) has a dongle with Component output. Sorry, I cannot help you with the test because I own Samsung 6168 set, which works really well with 1080p signals over VGA. I suspect that Component will work well with HTPC, but someone on this forum who owns HP set would have to confirm.
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