The Official HP Pavilion 1080P DLP Owner's Thread - Page 31 - AVS Forum
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post #901 of 10890 Old 10-29-2005, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by lorelevitt View Post

I take it you were referring to this exchange:

"Gaming Illustrated: Should gamers be concerned about the so called "Rainbow Effect" on DLPs?

Dan Schinasi: Most users cannot perceive the rainbow effect thanks to the 7200 RPM color wheel. In 2006 we plan to debut a new DLP light engine that completely eliminates the requirement for a color wheel. Details and a preview of this new technology will be announced at CES and we anticipate shipping at least one new model with this technology in 2006"

It seems to me that they will only be able to eliminate the color wheel by using 3 DMD chips. Unless they've come up with some what to use a liquid crystal or other panel to act as a color filter and can change that filter elecronically to simulate what the color wheel is doing. Can't wait to see what they have. Wonder if we can find anything in a search of the patent office's pending patents.

Ok- I did some searching on the US Patent site this morning. Patents are not easy to read-- so some of you can chime in your interpretation of this as well. Samsung filed US Patent application in June 2005, Patent app #20050123239

http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.html&r=2&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PG01&S1=%28%28%28samsung+AND+color%29+AND+wheel%29+AND+dlp%29&OS=samsung+and+color+and+wheel+and+dlp&RS=(((samsung+AND+color)+AND+wheel)+AND+dlp)

I downloaded images of the patent and reassembled them into 2 PDF files (see attachments due to the 500KB limit)

As I read it, Samsung has invented a system using lasers and dichroic filters to replace the need for a color wheel and to significantly decrease the cabinet size of a rear projection system. Its a pretty neat idea but one that I suspect will be expensive in their first generation DLP sets based on this technology.
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post #902 of 10890 Old 10-29-2005, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lorelevitt View Post

As I read it, Samsung has invented a system using lasers and dichroic filters to replace the need for a color wheel and to significantly decrease the cabinet size of a rear projection system. Its a pretty neat idea but one that I suspect will be expensive in their first generation DLP sets based on this technology.

Wow that is neat. I too suspected they had re-worked the 3 chip setup they have for front projector systems right now.

Cost will indeed be interesting
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post #903 of 10890 Old 10-29-2005, 11:41 AM
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lorelevitt ,

I just did a quick read of your pdf files and it seemed to me that they were still using a wheel. Only this time, the wheel consisted of a clear aperture, rather than a set of filters. I suspect I may be over looking some aspect or some particular manifestation. but it struck me that if you use three lasers(R,G and B) and you select colors by alternately rotating the aperture to allow one beam at a time, that seems logically indentical to using a set of filters on a wheel.
I also found myself wondering why the chroma signals couldn't be used to modulate and mix the laser colors directly. This might be done with a pulse width modulation scheme similar to that used at the DMD. In other words, one has the three primaries in hand and the 8 bit digital data per primary, just create a pulse width modulated drive for each laser, then mix. Voila, 16 million colors! Perhaps Samsung was being a bit coy in their patent app.
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post #904 of 10890 Old 10-29-2005, 12:27 PM
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Ack! I just called TW to upgrade to the HD DVR, they said they currently only have the SA8000--not the SA8300. Doesn't that mean I have to hook up the DVR to the TV using component cables, not through the HDMI input? What will that do to the PQ on the HP? What are my other DVR options?

Just trying to get everything ready for when the HP 5880 arrives.

Thanks.
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post #905 of 10890 Old 10-29-2005, 01:26 PM
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I'm also using the SA8000 from TW because they were out of 8300's when I got set up last week. It is hooked up via component.

PQ is very good, HD looks excellent, but there is one general problem, a vertical banding issue that I haven't figured out (TW tech coming Wed so I'm ignoring it until then).

There are "ghostly" rolling bands crawling up the screen, green and red, that are usually visible in programming at night, particularly solid backgrounds. Not sure what's causing it, and like I said I'm going to wait to let the tech troubleshoot.

Other than that issue, the 8000 also has some stuttering once in a while (drop-outs of sound and video disruption) that the 8300 is evidently less prone to. But things work fine, records shows as advertised, guide is plenty responsive, no other issues.

All in all, the 8000 is OK for now, but I will upgrade to the 8300 in the near future...
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post #906 of 10890 Old 10-29-2005, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john stephens View Post

lorelevitt ,

I just did a quick read of your pdf files and it seemed to me that they were still using a wheel. Only this time, the wheel consisted of a clear aperture, rather than a set of filters. I suspect I may be over looking some aspect or some particular manifestation. but it struck me that if you use three lasers(R,G and B) and you select colors by alternately rotating the aperture to allow one beam at a time, that seems logically indentical to using a set of filters on a wheel.
I also found myself wondering why the chroma signals couldn't be used to modulate and mix the laser colors directly. This might be done with a pulse width modulation scheme similar to that used at the DMD. In other words, one has the three primaries in hand and the 8 bit digital data per primary, just create a pulse width modulated drive for each laser, then mix. Voila, 16 million colors! Perhaps Samsung was being a bit coy in their patent app.

John:

You're a better man than I...all I could come up with was "Cool, a set with laser beams!"
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post #907 of 10890 Old 10-29-2005, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Ding62 View Post

I game on a Dell 2405 LCD (1920 x 1200), so I know how that goes.

Of course, a dual core and a 7800 wouldn't be bad either.

I've read conflicting info. on value of dual core but that 7800 GT with support h.264 hardware decoding for HD compression for HTPC is great to limit demands on PC CPU.

I'm ordering HP 5880 next week when academic discount resumes. Seems like forever!!! Have 3.4 Ghz HTPC, 1 gig RAM, 550 gig hard drive, MyHD MDP-130 PCI, Creative Audigy 2 ZX Platinum PCI.

Besides 7800 GT, any other video card recommendations r.e. 1080p output to HP? Plan only to use HTPC to watch 1080p on HP, not for any gaming.

Thanks!
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post #908 of 10890 Old 10-29-2005, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TYBZ View Post

This TV looks great to me, I got one question though, I'm looking for a set that will serve both as a monitor and a TV. In order words, I'll be using that set as my main computer monitor, and I work from home, mainly on my computer, so I'm wondering about how DLP technology does as a computer monitor

1) I know that DLPs are not flickering like CRTs, which is good.
2) Brightness, when I work or browse the net on the computer, all the lights are open to be able to read paper and stuff, I know that direct view sets like LCDs and CRTs are perfect for this, but will I be able to enjoy a great PQ even with all lights opened with DLP (more specifically, this HP set)?
3) Eye fatigue, working or browsing 6-8 hours a day on a 58 DLP set, is it comfortable?

Any other experiences from people that heavily use this set as a computer monitor?

Any comments will be very welcome and appreciated.

Brightness will NOT be a problem with this set...it is very bright, even at the OOB 50% setting and on Normal picture mode. I have yet to have a situation in a very bright room where the set isn't bright enough.

I've never used a TV for a monitor like that on a daily basis...ergonomics will be very important. If your seating position, arm/mouse angle, TV/head angle, etc., are comfortable and not injury inducing, I would think it would be fine, and might even be "fun" (at least while it feels "new.") Plus, you can open a PIP window and watch ESPN, E!, or MTV (choose your poison) while you work.
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post #909 of 10890 Old 10-29-2005, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danabw View Post

PIP/Split screen pics...1-3 of 5

Danabw,
Thanks for pix!

Can HP 1080 do HDTV on one split screen and web search on the other. When my son watches Barney, I'd love to be able to watch something less purple.

Also, if 65" is too large but 58" is too small, can the 65" viewable area be downsized to smaller sizes such as 62"?

Thanks!
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post #910 of 10890 Old 10-29-2005, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharon's Lee View Post

Danabw,
Thanks for pix!

Can HP 1080 do HDTV on one split screen and web search on the other. When my son watches Barney, I'd love to be able to watch something less purple.

The short answer is probably not, but depends on how you're going to be hooked up. If you are connecting cable directly to the TV, then yes. If you are getting TV sig. via STB/DVR, then no, you can't.

There is a limitation to PIP that I didn't realize until just now...others likely noted it, but I missed it. Doh, as Homer would say...

Didn't notice it before, because I had initially played w/the PIP feature when I had cable running straight into the set on the Cable input. I haven't really played w/PIP since I had digital cable installed, w/the TV signal now on the Component 1 input.

Anyway, the limitation is that one of the PIP sources must be the Cable or Sat source, and the other source one of the remaining inputs (not Cable or Sat). So you can't have Cable and Antenna sources side-by-side (not a big deal), but you also can't have two of the remaining sources on-screen at the same time either:

Video 1-3, Component 1-2, HDMI 1-2, VGA/PC

Can't have Video 1 and Component 1, Component 1 and HDMI, VGA/PC and Component, Component 1 and Component 2, etc.

That's more of a big deal/disappointing. :-(

So you can't have a DVD or video tape playing on one side on component 1 or SVIDEO, and see what's on your TV on the other (if it's input via Component or HDMI), can't have VCR playing on one side and computer on the other, etc. Bummer...this is something I used to do off and on w/my old Panny 60".

This, now that I understand it, makes the HP TV PIP pretty much useless for me.

(I should note, my PIP pics above were done w/a setup that I had connected for troubleshooting direct cable input vs. SA8000 feed over component 1...had split the cable line coming out of the wall and run one line directly into the TV's Cable input, and the other line into the SA8000 HDDVR, which feeds the TV sig to the HP on Component 1.)

I didn't understand your other question.
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post #911 of 10890 Old 10-29-2005, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danabw View Post

Brightness will NOT be a problem with this set...it is very bright, even at the OOB 50% setting and on Normal picture mode. I have yet to have a situation in a very bright room where the set isn't bright enough.

I've never used a TV for a monitor like that on a daily basis...ergonomics will be very important. If your seating position, arm/mouse angle, TV/head angle, etc., are comfortable and not injury inducing, I would think it would be fine, and might even be "fun" (at least while it feels "new.") Plus, you can open a PIP window and watch ESPN, E!, or MTV (choose your poison) while you work.

Alright, that's good to know!

Does anybody use this set (or have experience with DLP) for reading text, say broswing the Internet? Does the text is stable like an LCD or fuzzy like a CRT?
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post #912 of 10890 Old 10-29-2005, 04:01 PM
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Playing w/it at low res (1024x768) from an old laptop connected via the VGA port, the text is very clear and sharp, can even read from 15' away on my couch.
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post #913 of 10890 Old 10-29-2005, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danabw View Post


That's more of a big deal/disappointing.

Thanks!!!
I agree w. PIP source disappointment.
Still, 1080p great PQ so I'll still get the set and enjoy immensely.

Best wishes for those who get future HP models w. this significant problem corrected.
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post #914 of 10890 Old 10-29-2005, 04:28 PM
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I am using the 5880n as a montor as I write. I too use this as a monitor as well as for TV vieing. Games, surfing the internet etc. I am ~11' from the set. Only thing I had to do was set the desktop and IE to use large fonts. This may be partly due to my age and the eyes ain't what they used to be.

Over extended periods of time there is NO fatique.

GL.
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post #915 of 10890 Old 10-29-2005, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomic_Rooster View Post

I am using the 5880n as a montor as I write. I too use this as a monitor as well as for TV vieing. Games, surfing the internet etc. I am ~11' from the set. Only thing I had to do was set the desktop and IE to use large fonts. This may be partly due to my age and the eyes ain't what they used to be.

Over extended periods of time there is NO fatique.

GL.

Hmm, it's becoming more and more interesting, I'll reconsider DLP as a viable technology then, so far I was down to direct view LCD only, with very little choice.

I'll be using my TV as follows:
Computer work / Internet browsing / emails: 70%
Movies: 15%
Games: 15%

Since we're there anybody as a reason NOT to use this HP set for computer work and internet browsing?

Another question, having a DLP set opened about 8 hours a day, will it shows up on my electricity bill compared to a standard CRT 19" monitor?

Also, how many hours do the bulb of this set is suppose to last?
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post #916 of 10890 Old 10-29-2005, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomic_Rooster View Post

I am using the 5880n as a montor as I write. I too use this as a monitor as well as for TV vieing. Games, surfing the internet etc. I am ~11' from the set. Only thing I had to do was set the desktop and IE to use large fonts. This may be partly due to my age and the eyes ain't what they used to be.

I'm doing the same thing. I have Windows XP Media Center Edition (MCE) 2005 font size set to 120% DPI. Another benefit to using MCE is that I can open up a TV window since my PC has a tuner card. The TV window size is much more controllable in MCE.
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post #917 of 10890 Old 10-29-2005, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TYBZ View Post

This TV looks great to me, I got one question though, I'm looking for a set that will serve both as a monitor and a TV. In order words, I'll be using that set as my main computer monitor, and I work from home, mainly on my computer, so I'm wondering about how DLP technology does as a computer monitor

1) I know that DLPs are not flickering like CRTs, which is good.
2) Brightness, when I work or browse the net on the computer, all the lights are open to be able to read paper and stuff, I know that direct view sets like LCDs and CRTs are perfect for this, but will I be able to enjoy a great PQ even with all lights opened with DLP (more specifically, this HP set)?
3) Eye fatigue, working or browsing 6-8 hours a day on a 58 DLP set, is it comfortable?

Any other experiences from people that heavily use this set as a computer monitor?

Any comments will be very welcome and appreciated.

My God--- you want to be Captain Picard in front of the Enterprise viewscreen....
Either that or you secretly work for NORAD (say where is the Whopper these days....)
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post #918 of 10890 Old 10-29-2005, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TYBZ View Post

Hmm, it's becoming more and more interesting, I'll reconsider DLP as a viable technology then, so far I was down to direct view LCD only, with very little choice.

I'll be using my TV as follows:
Computer work / Internet browsing / emails: 70%
Movies: 15%
Games: 15%

Since we're there anybody as a reason NOT to use this HP set for computer work and internet browsing?

Another question, having a DLP set opened about 8 hours a day, will it shows up on my electricity bill compared to a standard CRT 19" monitor?

Also, how many hours do the bulb of this set is suppose to last?

Bulb is estimated to last 6000 hours -- but I would expect dropoff and lumins decrease to begin being noticable at the 1/2 life.
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post #919 of 10890 Old 10-29-2005, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by lorelevitt View Post

Bulb is estimated to last 6000 hours -- but I would expect dropoff and lumins decrease to begin being noticable at the 1/2 life.

But...this thing is so bright at "normal" that even as drop-off begins I expect it will be very usable for quite a while.
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post #920 of 10890 Old 10-29-2005, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharon's Lee View Post

Besides 7800 GT, any other video card recommendations r.e. 1080p output to HP? Plan only to use HTPC to watch 1080p on HP, not for any gaming.

You'll probably want to go ask on the HTPC forum, but I think a 7800 would be severe overkill, if you're not planning to do any gaming. Virtually any ATI or nVidia card that has a DVI output would probably do the trick. I've never researched hardware-assisted HD decoding, so again, you probably should check with the gurus over in the HTPC sub-forum.
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post #921 of 10890 Old 10-29-2005, 09:04 PM
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If you mean 1080P from QUicktime or WMVHD you will need a fast processor for that, my old Geforce 4 card has no problems displaying the 1080P.

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post #922 of 10890 Old 10-29-2005, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lorelevitt View Post

Bulb is estimated to last 6000 hours -- but I would expect dropoff and lumins decrease to begin being noticable at the 1/2 life.

The 6,000 hours is the expected time to a reduction of 1/2 the lumens. It won't be dead then, ju st half as bright on average.
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post #923 of 10890 Old 10-29-2005, 09:14 PM
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TYBZ,

These TVs make very good monitors and if you use an RF keyboard and mouse like the Gyration Ultra, say, you can lay back and do serious PC work/browsing etc.
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post #924 of 10890 Old 10-29-2005, 10:17 PM
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Watched "The Third Man" tonight (1949 B&W, restored print) on my MD6580n...just gorgeous on this set...best blacks in town, shadows and dark scenes are enjoyable once again...
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post #925 of 10890 Old 10-29-2005, 10:23 PM
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6000 hours... haha that's good, it should last at least 4 years then, good news, just out of curiosity how much a replacement bulb cost?

Now, I can wait for these sets to cross the border into Canada to see them in person

Quick DLP Q: Why can't we find a brightness ratings (in 550 cd/m²) for DLP sets?
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post #926 of 10890 Old 10-29-2005, 10:32 PM
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$300, I think, on the HP Shopping site...last time I checked they were listed as not in stock.
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post #927 of 10890 Old 10-30-2005, 05:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomic_Rooster View Post

I am using the 5880n as a montor as I write. I too use this as a monitor as well as for TV vieing. Games, surfing the internet etc. I am ~11' from the set. Only thing I had to do was set the desktop and IE to use large fonts. This may be partly due to my age and the eyes ain't what they used to be.

Over extended periods of time there is NO fatique.

GL.

For couch potatoes: hold the CTRL key down then rotate the mouse key to change the screen font size. Everyone try this RIGHT NOW (from any windows computer) and realize that the distance from your seat to any display is now unimportant!
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post #928 of 10890 Old 10-30-2005, 06:23 AM
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That only affects the window I have open.

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post #929 of 10890 Old 10-30-2005, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john stephens View Post

The 6,000 hours is the expected time to a reduction of 1/2 the lumens. It won't be dead then, ju st half as bright on average.

I expect that brightness settings are part of the ISF calibration. Once the bulb brightness begins to change-- it may be worth it for the "picky" owners to replace the bulb rather than wait until full failure. I guess it depends on how much $ you have sitting around at the time.
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post #930 of 10890 Old 10-30-2005, 08:18 AM
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Replacing the bulb will also affect the calibration. The question is how much will it affect it.

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