Samsung 2006 DLP HDTV Discussion --- HLSxxxxW Models - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 4534 Old 01-17-2006, 07:42 PM
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UCSB, I don't know if you have this link to Samusng's CES06 press releases. http://hwhpr.com/pr/samsung/ces06/ HWH Public Relations is Samsung's press representative. The link above has all of the zipped pictures of the products announced at CES06.

I was looking at the HLS-6187 picture and don't know if anyone else has noticed that the button position has been moved to right front in the "indented" area. Items included in this area are timer, lamp and temp lights and source, menu, volume +/-, channel +/- and the last button that I don't know what is (possibly timer). Don't see any front inputs, but they could be on the front right where they are now. Finally, on the bottom left of the bezel are the usual trademark items one of which appears to me to be DCD - I don't know what this is.
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post #182 of 4534 Old 01-17-2006, 07:59 PM
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Also noticed that the logo in the upper right of the bezel now says HDTV Progressive. The HLR6168 said HDTV 1080p.
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post #183 of 4534 Old 01-17-2006, 08:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schaffer970 View Post

UCSB, I don't know if you have this link to Samusng's CES06 press releases. http://hwhpr.com/pr/samsung/ces06/ HWH Public Relations is Samsung's press representative. The link above has all of the zipped pictures of the products announced at CES06.

I was looking at the HLS-6187 picture and don't know if anyone else has noticed that the button position has been moved to right front in the "indented" area. Items included in this area are timer, lamp and temp lights and source, menu, volume +/-, channel +/- and the last button that I don't know what is (possibly timer). Don't see any front inputs, but they could be on the front right where they are now. Finally, on the bottom left of the bezel are the usual trademark items one of which appears to me to be DCD - I don't know what this is.

Thanks, I did download and store on my computer all of the CES press kits. I think that the 2005 info can be easily updated to 2006 spec's. But, I just don't think that we have uncovered the full story. There seem to be some unannounced models. They may be HLS6178W and HLS6778W models. In addition, I still am wondering if the HLSxx78W line is going to be .95" non-wobulated.

> Bill
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post #184 of 4534 Old 01-17-2006, 08:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schaffer970 View Post

UCSB, I don't know if you have this link to Samusng's CES06 press releases. http://hwhpr.com/pr/samsung/ces06/ HWH Public Relations is Samsung's press representative. The link above has all of the zipped pictures of the products announced at CES06.

I was looking at the HLS-6187 picture and don't know if anyone else has noticed that the button position has been moved to right front in the "indented" area. Items included in this area are timer, lamp and temp lights and source, menu, volume +/-, channel +/- and the last button that I don't know what is (possibly timer). Don't see any front inputs, but they could be on the front right where they are now. Finally, on the bottom left of the bezel are the usual trademark items one of which appears to me to be DCD - I don't know what this is.

The DCD is actually DCDi. This means that the 2006 sets will be going back to Faroudja DCDi processing. I wonder what their 2006 chips look like. I hope they solved the macroblocking issues exhibited on their 2005 chips. (Note: I have the large 5.5 MB press release files and that is how I can read the logos).

> Bill
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post #185 of 4534 Old 01-17-2006, 09:13 PM
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I just think your eyes are better than mine Once I know what it says, it is obvious.

It would be nice if Samsung would let us know what they are going to do for this model year. I think you are right that there will be additional announcements.
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post #186 of 4534 Old 01-17-2006, 11:32 PM
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I am curious as to who makes these high-brightness LEDs? Lumileds?
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post #187 of 4534 Old 01-18-2006, 06:54 AM
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I'm curious about the 2006 DLP's.

Is the 87W series a LED DLP?

What is the difference between the Gen6 & Gen7?

Is the 79W the only LED DLP?

Will either / both accept 1080p via HDMI?
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post #188 of 4534 Old 01-18-2006, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by matchstickman View Post

I am curious as to who makes these high-brightness LEDs? Lumileds?

Cree is a manufacturer of high brightness LED's, but there are also companies in Asia that make them. I suspect they would procure them locally.
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post #189 of 4534 Old 01-19-2006, 08:36 AM
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I, like some others here, are sweating out whether or not to buy a 2005 Panny DLP RPTV, or wait for the 2006 models. CC has a great sale with no interest/no financing for 24 mnths and that's very attractive, but everything I've read in the new 2006 press release says better TVs will be CHEAPER than current models in Mar/Apr. Better is relative and to decide if waiting is worth it, I tried to do a list of pros and cons. When I saw the contrast of the current 50" sets, they're all 2,500:1. The 2006 50" sets are 10,000:1. That's a huge jump and one worth waiting for if it's true. Is it possibly a typo? How can they increase it that much? From the PR:

The 50 HL-S5687W, 56 HL-S5687W, and the 61 HL-S6187W feature the latest Texas Instruments DLP chip for true HD 1920 x 1080p HDTV images. The 1080p DLPs offer the ultimate in picture performance with an ultra high contrast ratio of 10,000:1 with superb brightness.

Can this be true? Thanks! -Dan
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post #190 of 4534 Old 01-19-2006, 11:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dtilton View Post

I, like some others here, are sweating out whether or not to buy a 2005 Panny DLP RPTV, or wait for the 2006 models. CC has a great sale with no interest/no financing for 24 mnths and that's very attractive, but everything I've read in the new 2006 press release says better TVs will be CHEAPER than current models in Mar/Apr. Better is relative and to decide if waiting is worth it, I tried to do a list of pros and cons. When I saw the contrast of the current 50" sets, they're all 2,500:1. The 2006 50" sets are 10,000:1. That's a huge jump and one worth waiting for if it's true. Is it possibly a typo? How can they increase it that much? From the PR:

The 50 HL-S5687W, 56 HL-S5687W, and the 61 HL-S6187W feature the latest Texas Instruments DLP chip for true HD 1920 x 1080p HDTV images. The 1080p DLPs offer the ultimate in picture performance with an ultra high contrast ratio of 10,000:1 with superb brightness.

Can this be true? Thanks! -Dan

Dan ... I think you are getting a little confused. The 2005 720p sets have a contrast ratio of up to 2,500:1, the 2005 1080p sets have contrast ratio of up to 10,000:1. So as far as we know that spec will not change in 2006. But, having said that there is still room for improvement. The color wheels are being improved with 5 colors, the dynamic iris used in 2005 could be improved and of course another year of development in many other area (sync, gaming, etc.). We just do not know how the 2006 models will compare to the 2005 at this point in time.

> Bill
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post #191 of 4534 Old 01-19-2006, 02:54 PM
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Question on RBE: Will this be an issue if watching a decent amount of B&W content? Not sure if I want a 2006 DLP, a 2006 SXRD, or wait another year.
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post #192 of 4534 Old 01-19-2006, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian81 View Post

Question on RBE: Will this be an issue if watching a decent amount of B&W content? Not sure if I want a 2006 DLP, a 2006 SXRD, or wait another year.

It is for a small portion of people. Of course SXRD doesn't have that problem. If you select DLP then be sure to have a "no cost" return policy for thirty days in the deal. The show room is sometimes too bright for rainbows to be seen before the set gets into a darker home setup.
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post #193 of 4534 Old 01-19-2006, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by hozho View Post

It is for a small portion of people. Of course SXRD doesn't have that problem. If you select DLP then be sure to have a "no cost" return policy for thirty days in the deal. The show room is sometimes too bright for rainbows to be seen before the set gets into a darker home setup.

I'd likely be ordering online from a place like Vanns or Crutchfield, since the typical BB/CC around here seems to only carry previous year models. So maybe later in the year they will sell last year's 1080p.
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post #194 of 4534 Old 01-19-2006, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian81 View Post

Question on RBE: Will this be an issue if watching a decent amount of B&W content? Not sure if I want a 2006 DLP, a 2006 SXRD, or wait another year.

Seems like the contrast ratio and brightness of the scene has more possibilities of seeing RBE than anything else.

While the SXRD will not have any RBE, some users are reporting a problem with color purity.
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post #195 of 4534 Old 01-19-2006, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian81 View Post

I'd likely be ordering online from a place like Vanns or Crutchfield ...

Then it would be a good idea to learn about the viewing conditions that make rainbows easier or harder to see. If you are exceptionally sensitive to rainbows they will show up in a showroom, but many people see them for the first time when they get their set home.

Both DLP and SXRD have their own "special" problems.

As Videopark suggest, a high contrast scene can make it easier to see rainbows. In a dark room watching a dark movie with bright moving objects, or moving your eyes rapidly under those conditions makes it easier to see rainbows.

I have had a DLP set for 18 months and have yet to see a rainbow. My wife has seen one rainbow. We were watching "The Man Who Wasn't There" which is a modern black and white film with a lot of bright objects.

None of our visitors have ever ask me about flashing colors.

I wouldn't buy online unless I was sure I wouldn't see rainbows in DLP or that I wouldn't have some of the SXRD color problems that have been reported. I play poker but I don't gamble.
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post #196 of 4534 Old 01-19-2006, 08:56 PM
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I just have been reading that 'rainbows' are more noticeable during things like rolling credits (white text moving across black screen). Figured with a B&W movie this same contrast would possibly cause the whole film to be like this.

I have been to BB/CC obviously and have tried darting my eyes back and forth within the store - didn't see rainbows. Haven't tried slamming my whole head back and forth - would need to go during hours with less people in the store so I don't have a bunch of people staring LOL

I almost feel like looking into one of those Rent-A-Center type stores and seeing if I can rent a DLP for a few months just for testing to see if I will notice them. It's a goofy idea but I wonder how much those things cost per month.

Both of these stores are well-recognized authorized dealers. I'm not too concerned about problems with either. I'm just concerned that I'll buy a set and not be able to watch it (and be out $3K).
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post #197 of 4534 Old 01-19-2006, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AkaStp View Post

The word that has been used most is color "non-uniformity" (and green globs) rather than color purity. Purity to me suggests lack of color accuracy. Is that what you meant? Or something else? Do you consider uniformity and purity to be the same thing or different? Not trying to start an argument, just to get an understanding of what you mean as I respect you and your posts.

From CNET:

"Color Purity
Because CRT monitors use electromagnetism to control their electron guns, magnetic fields build up within the monitor and cause distortions that appear as colored patches on the screen. A monitor has good color purity if no such discolorations are visible (they are easiest to see on a white background). The magnetic fields that cause problems with color purity can sometimes be eliminated by degaussing."

Unfortunately, I can't help if posters use imprecise or non-scientific terms. The term "glob" is not one I use often!
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post #198 of 4534 Old 01-19-2006, 11:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian81 View Post

I just have been reading that 'rainbows' are more noticeable during things like rolling credits (white text moving across black screen). Figured with a B&W movie this same contrast would possibly cause the whole film to be like this.

I have been to BB/CC obviously and have tried darting my eyes back and forth within the store - didn't see rainbows. Haven't tried slamming my whole head back and forth - would need to go during hours with less people in the store so I don't have a bunch of people staring LOL

I almost feel like looking into one of those Rent-A-Center type stores and seeing if I can rent a DLP for a few months just for testing to see if I will notice them. It's a goofy idea but I wonder how much those things cost per month.

Both of these stores are well-recognized authorized dealers. I'm not too concerned about problems with either. I'm just concerned that I'll buy a set and not be able to watch it (and be out $3K).

Just buy the set from a location where it is easy to return and they have a 30 day return policy.

> Bill
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post #199 of 4534 Old 01-20-2006, 04:32 AM
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UCSB,

You are doing great work in getting a lot of the facts together in one place...........regarding the new screen sizes and Wobulated vs non-wobulated.........I generally thought or assumed that the wobulated sets would be released around April 2006.........and the non-wob, would be later in the year or possible not till 2007? Did I miss projected release dates for the non-wob sets?

Generally, wobulated DLP has not bothered me too much..........I have seen a few defects, like a line running verticle down the middle of the picture (and slight wrapped or curved picture at that point).......and have assumed that the "double duty" can slow down processing of "fast" pictures.

Also, would you clarify this for me: I had assumed the 720p's for 2005 were non-wob's...........but I am now under the impression that the 720p's for 2006 will be wobulated? I guess as a cost saving measure? I also, assume that if they have improved the processors (speed), for fast pictures that this becomes a non-issue anyway?

Thanks
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post #200 of 4534 Old 01-20-2006, 04:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Videopark View Post

From CNET:

"Color Purity
Because CRT monitors use electromagnetism to control their electron guns, magnetic fields build up within the monitor and cause distortions that appear as colored patches on the screen. A monitor has good color purity if no such discolorations are visible (they are easiest to see on a white background). The magnetic fields that cause problems with color purity can sometimes be eliminated by degaussing."

Unfortunately, I can't help if posters use imprecise or non-scientific terms. The term "glob" is not one I use often!

For fun you can also De-Mag your color CRT with a Hoover......lol.....oh the things we use to do!
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post #201 of 4534 Old 01-20-2006, 07:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian81 View Post

I just have been reading that 'rainbows' are more noticeable during things like rolling credits (white text moving across black screen). Figured with a B&W movie this same contrast would possibly cause the whole film to be like this.

I have been to BB/CC obviously and have tried darting my eyes back and forth within the store - didn't see rainbows. Haven't tried slamming my whole head back and forth - would need to go during hours with less people in the store so I don't have a bunch of people staring LOL

I almost feel like looking into one of those Rent-A-Center type stores and seeing if I can rent a DLP for a few months just for testing to see if I will notice them. It's a goofy idea but I wonder how much those things cost per month.

Both of these stores are well-recognized authorized dealers. I'm not too concerned about problems with either. I'm just concerned that I'll buy a set and not be able to watch it (and be out $3K).

those who've seen RBE say that Sin City is a good movie to play to display RBE
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post #202 of 4534 Old 01-20-2006, 11:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonPerson View Post

UCSB,

You are doing great work in getting a lot of the facts together in one place...........regarding the new screen sizes and Wobulated vs non-wobulated.........I generally thought or assumed that the wobulated sets would be released around April 2006.........and the non-wob, would be later in the year or possible not till 2007? Did I miss projected release dates for the non-wob sets?

Generally, wobulated DLP has not bothered me too much..........I have seen a few defects, like a line running verticle down the middle of the picture (and slight wrapped or curved picture at that point).......and have assumed that the "double duty" can slow down processing of "fast" pictures.

Also, would you clarify this for me: I had assumed the 720p's for 2005 were non-wob's...........but I am now under the impression that the 720p's for 2006 will be wobulated? I guess as a cost saving measure? I also, assume that if they have improved the processors (speed), for fast pictures that this becomes a non-issue anyway?

Thanks

In 2005, the HLRxx67W models were wobulated. The HLR5087w was not. In 2006, the HLSxx86W models and HLSxx66W models, which looks like all of the 2006 720p models, will be wobulated.

All of the confirmed 2006 sets will be wobulated, but we have a few hints that some models may contain the .95" non-wobulated chip. This is speculation at this point ... but, we are just starting to gather information for the year.

> Bill
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post #203 of 4534 Old 01-20-2006, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UCSB View Post

Dan ... I think you are getting a little confused. The 2005 720p sets have a contrast ratio of up to 2,500:1, the 2005 1080p sets have contrast ratio of up to 10,000:1. So as far as we know that spec will not change in 2006. But, having said that there is still room for improvement. The color wheels are being improved with 5 colors, the dynamic iris used in 2005 could be improved and of course another year of development in many other area (sync, gaming, etc.). We just do not know how the 2006 models will compare to the 2005 at this point in time.

I think that Sync is definatly a huge issue that needs to be fixed if i am going to buy, as well as HDMI with 5.1surround and video pass through the same cable. Its a pain to have to set up each source individually to deal with audio Sync problems. You would think that synced audio and video from a DVD player to TV, could then be kept in sync internally while the video is upconverted from 1080i to 1080P, or whatever it may be. I mean thats exactly what a upconverting DVD player is doing already....keeping the audio and video in sync on the outputs!
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post #204 of 4534 Old 01-20-2006, 01:22 PM
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I think there may be more differences between the 86 series(720P) and the 87 series(1080P) than some people may think.

86 series.
"5 segment color wheel with Brilliant Color. "Cinema Smooth Gen 6 Light Engine"

87 series.
"Cinema Smooth Gen 7 Exclusive Light Engine"

My take on this is that the 87 series doe NOT have the new 5 segment color wheel but does get a new light engine. While the 86 series get the new color wheel but NOT the new Light Engine. There is no mention in the press release for the 87 series about a 5 segment color wheel.

Does any one know what the difference(s) is between a GEN 6 and a GEN 7 light engine?
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post #205 of 4534 Old 01-20-2006, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivallt View Post

I think that Sync is definatly a huge issue that needs to be fixed if i am going to buy, as well as HDMI with 5.1surround and video pass through the same cable. Its a pain to have to set up each source individually to deal with audio Sync problems. You would think that synced audio and video from a DVD player to TV, could then be kept in sync internally while the video is upconverted from 1080i to 1080P, or whatever it may be. I mean thats exactly what a upconverting DVD player is doing already....keeping the audio and video in sync on the outputs!

The problem is that most people (me included) send the video from the dvd player directly to the tv, and the audio directly to the AV receiver (and thus the 5.1 or 7.1 surround system). So the audio and video don't 'talk' to one another after they leave the dvd player, so there's no way to sync them. Probably the simplest procedure is if one has an AVR that allows one to adjust the audio delay to sync the dvd (and also the cable box or satellite input also). If your AVR doesn't have that delay feature, you need to add a separate delay box (e.g., the Felston) between the sources and the AVR; this is what I do.
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post #206 of 4534 Old 01-20-2006, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scJohn View Post

I think there may be more differences between the 86 series(720P) and the 87 series(1080P) than some people may think.

86 series.
"5 segment color wheel with Brilliant Color. "Cinema Smooth Gen 6 Light Engine"

87 series.
"Cinema Smooth Gen 7 Exclusive Light Engine"

My take on this is that the 87 series doe NOT have the new 5 segment color wheel but does get a new light engine. While the 86 series get the new color wheel but NOT the new Light Engine. There is no mention in the press release for the 87 series about a 5 segment color wheel.

Does any one know what the difference(s) is between a GEN 6 and a GEN 7 light engine?

I think the Samsung CES press release simply failed to mention the 87 series is also, Brilliant Color with the 5 segment wheel...............did someone take pictures of that series at CES, with the display card in front of the TV, that stated that????
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post #207 of 4534 Old 01-20-2006, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

The problem is that most people (me included) send the video from the dvd player directly to the tv, and the audio directly to the AV receiver (and thus the 5.1 or 7.1 surround system). So the audio and video don't 'talk' to one another after they leave the dvd player, so there's no way to sync them. Probably the simplest procedure is if one has an AVR that allows one to adjust the audio delay to sync the dvd (and also the cable box or satellite input also). If your AVR doesn't have that delay feature, you need to add a separate delay box (e.g., the Felston) between the sources and the AVR; this is what I do.

Or will doing it this way fix the situation with the 2006 models:
Since HDMI will be 1080p and 5.1 can you link your DVD to your AVR (via HDMI), and from there to the TV? That would hopefully keep everything in sync.
Of course you have to fork out money to buy a new AVR with HDMI in- and outputs.

Or could you go DVD to TV (via HDMI) and then from there to your AVR via optical for 5.1 surround? Would that keep everyting in sync?
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post #208 of 4534 Old 01-20-2006, 02:31 PM
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Or will doing it this way fix the situation with the 2006 models:
Since HDMI will be 1080p and 5.1 can you link your DVD to your AVR (via HDMI), and from there to the TV? That would hopefully keep everything in sync.
Of course you have to fork out money to buy a new AVR with HDMI in- and outputs.

Or could you go DVD to TV (via HDMI) and then from there to your AVR via optical for 5.1 surround? Would that keep everyting in sync?

The latter procedure should in principle be able to do the job. The 2005 sets couldn't do this 5.1 pass-through to an AVR, but your point is well made that maybe the 2006 sets can.
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post #209 of 4534 Old 01-20-2006, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by uwsc11 View Post

Or will doing it this way fix the situation with the 2006 models:
Since HDMI will be 1080p and 5.1 can you link your DVD to your AVR (via HDMI), and from there to the TV? That would hopefully keep everything in sync.
Of course you have to fork out money to buy a new AVR with HDMI in- and outputs.

Or could you go DVD to TV (via HDMI) and then from there to your AVR via optical for 5.1 surround? Would that keep everyting in sync?

The current HDMI will not pass true 5.1 surround to a surround receiver. I have read that future versions of HDMI (1.3?) will pass true 5.1 through.

As it is now, it's either true 5.1 with lip synch problems or non-5.1 passing through. I have noticed that my 2 rear speakers broadcast the same sounds.
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post #210 of 4534 Old 01-20-2006, 05:31 PM
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those who've seen RBE say that Sin City is a good movie to play to display RBE


I'm saving this movie (?) title to a text document for future reference. Thanks
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