Samsung 1080p Owner's Thread --- HLSxx87W/HLSxx88W DLP Models - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 21398 Old 05-08-2006, 05:38 PM
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This Samsung discussion brought to you by Toshiba..
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post #542 of 21398 Old 05-08-2006, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by domingos1965 View Post

slash007
are u aware that the 2 samsungs on our list are 1080p while the toshiba is 720p?
if i was you i would wait for the new 1080p toshibas coming out soon and then choose between the toshiba and the samsungs.
the toshina will have 12-bit processing (14-bit internally) vs samsung's 10-bit
just a thought


I am aware that the toshiba is 720p and that helps samsungs case even more, but I really want the qam tuner. Do you know if either of the sammys (87/88) have it? Also, when are the new toshibas expected? I thought that the 195 series just came out in Dec.
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post #543 of 21398 Old 05-08-2006, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by pwp View Post

This Samsung discussion brought to you by Toshiba..

Ha ha...funny stuff! Isn't it amazing how the "competition" is making inroads among us.

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post #544 of 21398 Old 05-08-2006, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by slash007 View Post

I am aware that the toshiba is 720p and that helps samsungs case even more, but I really want the qam tuner. Do you know if either of the sammys (87/88) have it? Also, when are the new toshibas expected? I thought that the 195 series just came out in Dec.

I also am waiting for a model with a qam tuner and hopefully cable card as well. I have come to understand that the '88 model has them (that's what I've heard and I hope it's true).
Alternatively, I am potentially interested in the 5679W (with the new LED light source), wondering if that model will have qam and cable card.

to each his own...
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post #545 of 21398 Old 05-08-2006, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by domingos1965 View Post

slash007

u can pre order the new toshibas
and yes they have qam tuner
.

Thanks, but this is a Samsung thread. Samsung is what I want with a qam tuner and cable card.

to each his own...
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post #546 of 21398 Old 05-08-2006, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by KCWolfPck View Post

Here are a few. I just got my HL-S6187W from Best Buy today.









Wow, those pics are nice, the detail looks phenomenal!!!!!

Any shots of non stretched SD?
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post #547 of 21398 Old 05-08-2006, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by domingos1965 View Post

slash007

u can pre order the new toshibas
and yes they have qam tuner

ATSC is the 8-level vestigial sideband modulation method adopted for the Advanced Television Systems Committee standard of digital television in the United States. Quadrature Amplitude Modulation (QAM) is a method of combining two amplitude-modulated (AM) signals into a single channel, thereby doubling the effective bandwidth. The two modulated carriers are combined at the source for transmission. At the destination, the carriers are separated, the data is extracted from each, and then the data is combined into the original modulating information.
Benefit: A Toshiba Integrated Television has both QAM and ATSC tuners included to enable the set to receive digital cable-in-the-clear signals, as well as digital terrestrial broadcasts.

I appreciate the info on the toshibas. Does anyone know anything about the samsungs having a QAM tuner or not? All of the specs that I can find on the 88 do not mention it, but I am not sure if those specs are final. As much as I like the samsungs based on the picture, looks and user reviews, I really need a qam tuner and not having one would probably be a deal breaker for me. Thanks.
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post #548 of 21398 Old 05-08-2006, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by djoberg View Post

Ha ha...funny stuff! Isn't it amazing how the "competition" is making inroads among us.

competition to whom? does anybody here work for samsung?

Plasma LCD or SED ?
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post #549 of 21398 Old 05-08-2006, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by domingos1965 View Post

Toshiba PixelPure Hi-Bit Digital Video Processing
Another development from Toshiba is the incorporation of the new PixelPure Hi-Bit Digital Video Processing. This next generation processing delivers the consistently high picture quality expected from Toshiba TVs. Using 12-bit picture processing (up to 14 bit internally!), Toshiba can create 4096 steps of gradation (steps between the whitest white, to the blackest black). That's an improvement of 16X from Toshiba's 2005 sets, and also incorporates improvements in areas such as: real speed progressive scanning, video noise reduction, sharpness, and gamma control to set a new standard for picture quality.

they may have 48 bit picture processing and an espresso machine but if in the end the PQ is not as good as the Samsungs just like every other year model, who cares about the specs. Let's just wait and see

Plasma LCD or SED ?
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post #550 of 21398 Old 05-08-2006, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by KCWolfPck View Post

Here are a few. I just got my HL-S6187W from Best Buy today.



KCWolfPck: thanks for the pics, but if you don't mind could you show us pics of HD and SD programming?

Plasma LCD or SED ?
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post #551 of 21398 Old 05-09-2006, 12:40 AM
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This is crazy, is there anyone here who can tell me if the hls6187w runs the 1080p at 24p, 30p, 60i, 50p, or 60p frames per second? And what's the maximum frames per second through the HDMI inputs? Any help here would be nice.
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post #552 of 21398 Old 05-09-2006, 01:29 AM
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Originally Posted by brezz View Post

i am just entering the market for a new TV, and was initially leaning towards the Sony sxrd but now thinking i might go for the Samsung HLS 87 after reading through this and some other threads. Would someone mind answering a couple of questions:

1. What is the issue with the optical out and 5.1 sound that i have been reading about? Is it that big of a deal?

2. It seems one of the biggest differences betweent the HLS 87 and 88 is the lack of a cable card. Based on people's experiences, does this really matter? For me it doesn't seem to be a big issue to have to use a cable box, but I'm very new to the HDTV market and maybe I'm missing something.

Thanks for the help.

Brian


Optical out is used for digital sound, you will need a digital receiver that has optical inputs. (usually the receiver will have a DTS label) The anolog audio going into your tv inputs will change over to digital, from there it will transfer through a optical cord and into your receiver. The sound has to transfer by laser, those the reason for the optical cord.

5.1 Dolby Digital is a source on your stereo receiver that allows 5 different sound sources through 5 different speakers. For instants if a voice comes for a person on your screen and that person walks off the screen to the right, his voice will transfer to the right speaker, and so on. So is optical out and dolby digital a big deal? Well not if you dont have a sound receiver that supports dolby or optical in.

The cable card IMO is not important, the biggest difference between any of the the samsung's right now is that the 87w series are supposed to be the first of the samsung's dlp's that actually except a "true" 1080p signal through the HDMI inputs. To me every thing else irrelevant.
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post #553 of 21398 Old 05-09-2006, 04:24 AM
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Originally Posted by brad1980 View Post

Optical out is used for digital sound, you will need a digital receiver that has optical inputs. (usually the receiver will have a DTS label) The anolog audio going into your tv inputs will change over to digital, from there it will transfer through a optical cord and into your receiver. The sound has to transfer by laser, those the reason for the optical cord.

5.1 Dolby Digital is a source on your stereo receiver that allows 5 different sound sources through 5 different speakers. For instants if a voice comes for a person on your screen and that person walks off the screen to the right, his voice will transfer to the right speaker, and so on. So is optical out and dolby digital a big deal? Well not if you dont have a sound receiver that supports dolby or optical in.

The cable card IMO is not important, the biggest difference between any of the the samsung's right now is that the 87w series are supposed to be the first of the samsung's dlp's that actually except a "true" 1080p signal through the HDMI inputs. To me every thing else irrelevant.

Thanks so much for the great reply.

I was reading that the 87w series has some kind of issue with the optical out feature. I can't remember if it was that it didn't support it, or something else. Is this true?

Thanks again for helping out a newbie!

Brian
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post #554 of 21398 Old 05-09-2006, 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by ISO Perfect HDTV View Post

competition to whom? does anybody here work for samsung?

SXRD and Toshiba lovers are COMPETING FOR OUR AFFECTIONS!

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post #555 of 21398 Old 05-09-2006, 07:19 AM
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To those that have requested more pics, I will post some more pics tonight that include, SD not stretched, HD, and XBox 360. I tried to take some last night but I guess the room wasn't dark enough and they really didn't turn out too well. I'm not much of a photographer. Of course....any tips on getting good screen shots wouldn't hurt.
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post #556 of 21398 Old 05-09-2006, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KCWolfPck View Post

To those that have requested more pics, I will post some more pics tonight that include, SD not stretched, HD, and XBox 360. I tried to take some last night but I guess the room wasn't dark enough and they really didn't turn out too well. I'm not much of a photographer. Of course....any tips on getting good screen shots wouldn't hurt.

No flash, turn down room lights, use tripod or solid support. Try different shutter speeds if you can to not show the progressive lines on the screen.
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post #557 of 21398 Old 05-09-2006, 08:12 AM
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Yeah, I'll use a tripod and even use a delay timer so there is no possibility of movement from me pushing the button.
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post #558 of 21398 Old 05-09-2006, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by brad1980 View Post

This is crazy, is there anyone here who can tell me if the hls6187w runs the 1080p at 24p, 30p, 60i, 50p, or 60p frames per second? And what's the maximum frames per second through the HDMI inputs? Any help here would be nice.

I have askes a similar question here with no answers. The refresh rate of the TV is 60Hz. This tells me it scales everything to 1080p60.

I have heard/read that HDMI can NOT handle 1080p60.

I am interested if the set can handle 1080p24 and 1080p30. I would expect these outputs from HD-DVD and Blu-Ray.

PS

None of the HL-S's will have HDMI 1.3
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post #559 of 21398 Old 05-09-2006, 10:33 AM
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I'm waiting on delivery of my 5088. In the meantime I've got a custom cabinet maker working on a "built-in" for my home. Last night he asked if I'd like to have the area designated for the TV to be built to cover the entire bottom of the TV......all the way up to the area that says "Samsung" at the bottom. So, the bottom five or six inches would be covered. I'm assuming that the built-in speaker would then be covered.....(which I really don't need because of my surround sound system that is going in).....as well as the IR for the remote. I've just purchased the MX-850 universal remote as well as the RF Station. With that in mind........is it ok to cover the IR with wood molding? Any opinions? Thanks!

Mike
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post #560 of 21398 Old 05-09-2006, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Man View Post

I have askes a similar question here with no answers. The refresh rate of the TV is 60Hz. This tells me it scales everything to 1080p60.

I have heard/read that HDMI can NOT handle 1080p60.

I am interested if the set can handle 1080p24 and 1080p30. I would expect these outputs from HD-DVD and Blu-Ray.

PS

None of the HL-S's will have HDMI 1.3


I think the 232 (or so) mhz limitation of HDMi 1.3 cannot handle 1080p60 w/ 48 bit color, it can do 1080p24/48 bit color. I have heard that is enough MHZ to do 1080p60/36 bit color.
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post #561 of 21398 Old 05-09-2006, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Man View Post

I have askes a similar question here with no answers. The refresh rate of the TV is 60Hz. This tells me it scales everything to 1080p60.

This is correct. Everything that goes into the set is scaled (if need be) to 1080p60.

Quote:


I have heard/read that HDMI can NOT handle 1080p60.

Incorrect. The HDMI inputs accept up to 1920x1080p @ 60Hz and this has already been confirmed by several owners of the new HL-Sxx87 sets as they're connecting their HTPCs at 1080p60 with no problems.

Quote:


I am interested if the set can handle 1080p24 and 1080p30. I would expect these outputs from HD-DVD and Blu-Ray.

Yes, the inputs will accept 1080p @ 24, 30 and 60 fps. However, all are still displayed at 60fps.

Quote:


None of the HL-S's will have HDMI 1.3

True, but HDMI 1.3 doesn't offer anything that these sets can take advantage of. There's a lot of misinformation about HDMI 1.3 floating around. The key benefits of HDMI 1.3 over 1.1 is it now supports some extra modes for the digital audio and there are provisions for a type C and type D connector for dual-link implementations. That's it. The digital video within HDMI 1.3 is still based on the DVI 1.2 spec and has not changed from HDMI 1.1. HDMI 1.3 *DOES NOT* offer increased resolutions, more colors, etc... HDMI 1.1 / DVI 1.2 are capable of 16bpc RGB as is. Also capable of resolutions up to 1920x1200 @ 60Hz or 1920x1080 @ 72Hz as they are now. Anyone advertising HDMI 1.3 support within a TV is just trying to capitalize on marketing fluff and pointless numbers.
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post #562 of 21398 Old 05-09-2006, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by AVSPHR34K View Post

I think the 232 (or so) mhz limitation of HDMi 1.3 cannot handle 1080p60 w/ 48 bit color, it can do 1080p24/48 bit color. I have heard that is enough MHZ to do 1080p60/36 bit color.

Incorrect. The DVI-D 1.2 video specification which is what is incorporated into HDMI 1.1 AND HDMI 1.3 spec has plenty of bandwidth for 48bit color.

227.62MHz @ 32bits = 7,283,840,000 bits/second.

1920x1080x48bit @ 60Hz = 5,971,968,000 bits/second.
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post #563 of 21398 Old 05-09-2006, 11:03 AM
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I guess I should clarify my statement above about HDMI 1.3 not supporting new resolutions/colors/etc... Not entirely true. HDMI spec outlines specific standard resolutions that should be supported and there is a handful of new ones added to the spec since v1.1. While technically there is no underlying difference to the video interface, HDMI is designed with all the standard resolutions and their timings and rates as a defined set. This is to simplify support for display manufacturers rather than trying to cope with an open-ended DVI spec where timings from 1080p capable displays could differ from one manufacturer to the next as they do with PC monitors. While DVI/HDMI is plug-n-play in this respect, it all comes back to catering to manufacturers to increase support for the format.
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post #564 of 21398 Old 05-09-2006, 11:26 AM
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Bad news from Samsung regarding the HLS-88 series!

I just got off the phone with "Samsung Executive Customer Service" (800-522-7341) and was told that the "May 15th" date the retailers have been giving out is NOT ACCURATE. The customer service rep said that Samsung is "hoping" to have the "88's" in THEIR CA or IL warehouse on May 28th and that it would take at least a couple of weeks to get them out to retailers. The customer service rep told me they've been told to tell consumers "late June or early July".

This blows....I just bought my 88 last weekend!!
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post #565 of 21398 Old 05-09-2006, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brezz View Post

i am just entering the market for a new TV, and was initially leaning towards the Sony sxrd but now thinking i might go for the Samsung HLS 87 after reading through this and some other threads. Would someone mind answering a couple of questions:

1. What is the issue with the optical out and 5.1 sound that i have been reading about? Is it that big of a deal?

2. It seems one of the biggest differences betweent the HLS 87 and 88 is the lack of a cable card. Based on people's experiences, does this really matter? For me it doesn't seem to be a big issue to have to use a cable box, but I'm very new to the HDTV market and maybe I'm missing something.

Brian - The optical out issue that you've been reading about is whether or not the TV actually sends a 5.1 channel sound signal , or just a stereo signal, through its optical out jack. Some people like to route the sound through their TV before going to their audio receiver. This gives the option of using the TV's speakers, and could help with video lag issues (where audio going directly to a receiver gets played slightlly before the video gets displayed, causing sync problems). If the TV doesn't pass a 5.1 channel signal, then you lose a lot of the audio benefits of DVDs and HD. I have all of my audio connected directly between my sources and my receiver, and I don't notice any A/V synvc problems, so whether or not the TV passes 5.1 isn't a concern for me.

As for cable card, it's largely personal preference. The advantage of a CC is that you don't have an extra set top box that you have to put someplace, and you aren't paying the cable company to lease the box each month (although you probably have to lease a card). The disadvantage is the current cable cards don't support interactive features like on screen guides and movies on demand. The newest version of CC is suppose to support these features. I use a HD DVR box so lack of a CC slot isn't a problem for me either.
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post #566 of 21398 Old 05-09-2006, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AppliedVisual View Post

This is correct. Everything that goes into the set is scaled (if need be) to 1080p60.



Incorrect. The HDMI inputs accept up to 1920x1080p @ 60Hz and this has already been confirmed by several owners of the new HL-Sxx87 sets as they're connecting their HTPCs at 1080p60 with no problems.



Yes, the inputs will accept 1080p @ 24, 30 and 60 fps. However, all are still displayed at 60fps.



True, but HDMI 1.3 doesn't offer anything that these sets can take advantage of. There's a lot of misinformation about HDMI 1.3 floating around. The key benefits of HDMI 1.3 over 1.1 is it now supports some extra modes for the digital audio and there are provisions for a type C and type D connector for dual-link implementations. That's it. The digital video within HDMI 1.3 is still based on the DVI 1.2 spec and has not changed from HDMI 1.1. HDMI 1.3 *DOES NOT* offer increased resolutions, more colors, etc... HDMI 1.1 / DVI 1.2 are capable of 16bpc RGB as is. Also capable of resolutions up to 1920x1200 @ 60Hz or 1920x1080 @ 72Hz as they are now. Anyone advertising HDMI 1.3 support within a TV is just trying to capitalize on marketing fluff and pointless numbers.



Thanks, and great post. I've been searching for this information for some time now, and you have been of great help. The only other question I have is if the HLSxx87w series which will upconvert to 1080p at every input, be capable of upconverting 1080p @ 60 frames per second? Rumors also have it, that the HP technology "wobilation" is apllied in the 87w series. Can anyone clarify weather this is true or false?
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post #567 of 21398 Old 05-09-2006, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by brad1980 View Post

The only other question I have is if the HLSxx87w series which will upconvert to 1080p at every input, be capable of upconverting 1080p @ 60 frames per second?

It's hard to figure out your question. I'll flip out an answer and if it applies, use it.

All inputs (see above) are converted to 1080p@60fps. If the input signal is through HDMI and it is already 1080p@60fps then no conversion is needed.

Quote:


Rumors also have it, that the HP technology "wobilation" is apllied in the 87w series. Can anyone clarify weather this is true or false?

There is no such rumor. What is fact is that "all" 1080p DLP RPTV sets that have ever existed or have been announced use the Texas Instruments wobulated chips which are based on work done by HP in their printer division. The HP RPTV sets also use the same wobulated DLP chip from TI.
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post #568 of 21398 Old 05-09-2006, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by KCWolfPck View Post

To those that have requested more pics, I will post some more pics tonight that include, SD not stretched, HD, and XBox 360. I tried to take some last night but I guess the room wasn't dark enough and they really didn't turn out too well. I'm not much of a photographer. Of course....any tips on getting good screen shots wouldn't hurt.

cant wait for the new pics
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post #569 of 21398 Old 05-09-2006, 01:51 PM
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My 5087 from the powerbuy showed up today. It looks great! I turned off dnie and switched from dynamic, but did not have time to do any more tweaking. I'm sitting about 9 ft from the TV and honestly feel like the 50 was the right size for me. I watched discovery hd for about 30 mins, no sparkles, immaculate picture. Oblivion on xbox 360 was staggering. There was no sound lag and I wasn't even using game mode (optical from xbox 360 to NAD T763 receiver w/ component straight to the TV). The TV looks great next to my NHT SB3's, the finishes match almost perfectly. If I have more time tonight I'll take some pics if anyone is interested in seeing what the 5087 looks like.
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post #570 of 21398 Old 05-09-2006, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by josecuervo View Post

My 5087 from the powerbuy showed up today. It looks great! I turned off dnie and switched from dynamic, but did not have time to do any more tweaking. I'm sitting about 9 ft from the TV and honestly feel like the 50 was the right size for me. I watched discovery hd for about 30 mins, no sparkles, immaculate picture. Oblivion on xbox 360 was staggering. There was no sound lag and I wasn't even using game mode (optical from xbox 360 to NAD T763 receiver w/ component straight to the TV). The TV looks great next to my NHT SB3's, the finishes match almost perfectly. If I have more time tonight I'll take some pics if anyone is interested in seeing what the 5087 looks like.

Yes, pics please We are all picture whores (well at least I am)
GBFreek is offline  
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