Samsung 1080p Owner's Thread --- HLSxx87W/HLSxx88W DLP Models - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 21399 Old 05-13-2006, 04:02 AM
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I think it should be illegal for the sales people at CC/BB and the like to overhype and basically lie to people about cables.

I watched a guy Friday night when we were at CC buy a DTV system and the guy jacked him for nearly $200 in cables.

He needed, $30-40 in cables from monoprice or partsexpress. I shop partsexpress simply because they are in Ohio and I'm in Michigan, next day delivery with free ground shipping is hard to beat.

Digital is Digital, a 1 is a 1 and a 0 is a 0. Remember GOLD PLATED PRINTER cables, at those bit rates you could use sheets of tin foil

A buddy bought one of those $50 pieces of junk from BB with his printer. I bought him a $3.00 from the bargain bin at the local computer store. I've BB sales people tell people that gold plated USB/printer cables actually printer better and faster...

I just have to walk away sometimes.

When I pick up my 56" today I'll buy one of their overpriced HDMI cables, simply because I forgot to order one online, it'll get returned on Monday when mine comes in.

Analog cables are a different deal all together, but digital cables can be had on the cheap.
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post #722 of 21399 Old 05-13-2006, 04:43 AM
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I need to run 25' for my pc hookup (gforce 7800gtx) for the 6187. Is the 24 gauge cable from monoprice adequate. An earlier post stated that anything over 15' can be problematic. Anyone try this distance out with success? Also, do you guys think the new RCA hdmi dvd player (drc255n) from Walmart is any good (50 bucks). I need a new one and figure I can use the 6187 for the upconversion. Would the sammy 960 be a better choice. I don't want to invest alot because eventually I want to go with hddvd or blueray when the price comes down of course.
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post #723 of 21399 Old 05-13-2006, 05:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paesan View Post

I need to run 25' for my pc hookup for the 6187. Is the 24 gauge cable from monoprice adequate. An earlier post stated that anything over 15' can be problematic. Anyone try this distance out with success?

I thought the manual for the 6187 said that PC connections via HDMI don't work. Is that not true? I'm wondering because I have a newer Dell computer that only has DVI out an no VGA out on the graphics card.
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post #724 of 21399 Old 05-13-2006, 05:58 AM
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What about component output for HTPC?

My 7900GT card has a converter I plug in and it gives me component output.

I assume thats better than the VGA?
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post #725 of 21399 Old 05-13-2006, 06:37 AM
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I found the following BlueJeansCable web page to be very helpful regarding DVI/HDMI cables:
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/dvi/index.htm
I haven't bought anything from them, and haven't even tried to compare prices against monoprice.com or bettercables.com, so I can't personally recommend them. I've seen a few other people though post about how happy they were with bluejeanscable.com, and they're one of the Forum's sponsors.
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post #726 of 21399 Old 05-13-2006, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BHenning37 View Post

I thought the manual for the 6187 said that PC connections via HDMI don't work. Is that not true? I'm wondering because I have a newer Dell computer that only has DVI out an no VGA out on the graphics card.

Search around the owners thread and one of the other Samsung threads. Others with HLS sets have successfully hooked up via HDMI, VGA and Component i beleive.
You just have to make sure your HTPC's signal has the correct resolution and refresh rates as i understand it.
Heres a link to a recent post
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post #727 of 21399 Old 05-13-2006, 08:32 AM
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[quote=KCWolfPck]

Very nice pix, I'll have to show the wife.
SD doesn't look so bad to me as I've been hearing...

to each his own...
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post #728 of 21399 Old 05-13-2006, 09:10 AM
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I run a 25' hdmi-dvi hybrid cable (the 24 g. one) from monoprice from my Mits dlp to my mac laptop, and it works perfectly.
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post #729 of 21399 Old 05-13-2006, 10:01 AM
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Has anyone tried using Monoprice HDMI--DVI cables (22awg or 24awg, either one) for HTPC monitor purposes with these new Samsung sets? A previous poster stated that it might require a DVI-D cable but looks like the Monoprice HDMI--->DVI cables have DVI-D Single-Link connectors.

My Samsung 5687 is in transit at the moment to me and I'm trying to wade through all the posts to decide which cable to use for the 5687 to act as a HTPC monitor...

1. Monoprice HDMI--DVI-D (Single-Link)?
2. SVGA M/M from Monoprice?
3. Find a HDMI--DVI-D Dual Link cable from another vendor (if one exists?)

If it makes any difference, the cable will have to be 25ft.

Edit: I've talked with ScarletGrayFire who is currently using his 5687 as a HTPC Monitor using a HDMI--DVI-D cable. I've seen the cable he is using and it seems as though it's a DVI-D Single Link cable, fortunately. If that's right, then that means that the Monoprice HDMI--DVI-D Single Link cable should work! I think that I'll order the Monoprice High Quality 22awg HDMI--DVI cable along with the 25ft. SVGA Cable just in case that HDMI--DVI cable doesn't work (the SVGA one is very inexpensive so why not?).
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post #730 of 21399 Old 05-13-2006, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GelatinousFury View Post

Has anyone tried using Monoprice HDMI--DVI cables (22awg or 24awg, either one) for HTPC monitor purposes with these new Samsung sets? A previous poster stated that it might require a DVI-D cable but looks like the Monoprice HDMI--->DVI cables have DVI-D Single-Link connectors.

I don't know of any reason that the 2006 HLS sets would require more than a single-link cable.

Sometimes "might" is used to cover an idle speculation rather than a high probability.

Here is a link to comments at Blue Jeans Cables about this topic. It sounds like there shouldn't be a problem unless your HTPC requires dual-link. Mine doesn't, and it doesn't sound like millerwill's does either.

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/dvi/index.htm

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post #731 of 21399 Old 05-13-2006, 10:43 AM
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Thanks for the comments htwaits. This backs up the thoughts I just edited into my previous post. It seems as though the Monoprice HDMI--DVI cables have a large chance of success for this purpose
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post #732 of 21399 Old 05-13-2006, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by GelatinousFury View Post

Thanks for the comments htwaits.

You're welcome. Good luck.

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post #733 of 21399 Old 05-13-2006, 12:29 PM
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Some thoughts on cables.....

My CD player has two audio outputs that run simultaneously, so I was able to play the same exact CD and send one feed through "high-end" cables and the other through the "included" cables. These are all analog. RCA-style cables. Both my wife and I noticed a significant difference in sound quality. She is a semi-professional mucisian, so I trust her ear even more than mine. The question is, of course, where in the "high-end" range do you hit the point of diminishing returns. For fun, I went to the Monster web site and noted that they have something like 12 different grades of audio analog cables. I'm guessing there is a sweet spot above which there is no difference in sound quality to most people, or other factors such as the equipment and the source have a larger impact. Is this "sweet spot" near the bottom or near the top of the range? I don' know.....

To those that state that "digital video" cables such as HDMI are all 1's and 0's, and therefore the quality of the cable doesn't make a difference - that is not entirely true. I haven't received my new 5087 yet (tomorrow, I hope!) so I haven't ran any experiments with HDMI cables. But based on my work (spacecraft) I can tell you that the quality of cables does matter for digital signals. As the line gets noisy, the decoder can start confusing 1s and 0s and "flipping" the bits. Does this matter? It depends on which bit flips (most significant, least significant), the data rate, the compression algorithm used, and any error correction techniques used in the signal. However, let me assure you that being a digital signal does not guarantee that the receiver will decode the same thing the transmitter encoded!

Having said all that, is a $100 HDMI cable better than a $50, better than a $20? I'm not a signal expert, and I don't know what the HDMI specs are. I'd say the only way to find out is to compare two cables in your setup. The individual characteristics of the component probably make a difference in the sensitivity to cable quality. Since faster rates are also more prone to signal noise (and flipping bits), I'm willing to bet that a 1080p signal will be more subceptible to noise problems than a 720p signal.


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post #734 of 21399 Old 05-13-2006, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by carlosn View Post

Having said all that, is a $100 HDMI cable better than a $50, better than a $20? I'm not a signal expert, and I don't know what the HDMI specs are.

I'm not a signal expert, either. However, from the experience of many people reporting on this forum, I'm convinced that the cables from Monoprice, Blue Jeans, and Best Deal cables are every bit as good as the Monster...at a fraction of the cost.

I believe the Monster cables, and other premium brands sold in the B&M stores are excellent quality. I also believe they are obscenely over priced.

Consumers are comparing prices for the big ticket items, like HDTVs, forcing retailers to discount the prices of these items. In order to make up for the lower profit margins, retailers agressively push overpriced extras...HDMI cables and extended warranties...on the consumer. Most of the customers simply don't realize that they can purchase equivalent warranties and cables at far more reasonable prices from other sources.
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post #735 of 21399 Old 05-13-2006, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by carlosn View Post

To those that state that "digital video" cables such as HDMI are all 1's and 0's, and therefore the quality of the cable doesn't make a difference - that is not entirely true.

I agree, but the possible degradation can't be compared to analog cables.

I'm too lazy (and cheap ) to do my own tests, but from my experience reading here, digital DVI/HDMI video cables that are having problems are easy to detect.

If the noise level causes mass confusion among the "0"s and "1"'s there is no image or there is massive blocking. I've never actually seen an example of this condition.

If the noise level causes some confusion among the "0"s and "1"'s there is a condition that others have called "sparkles" which is easy to see.

An increase in cable noise level can be caused by the length of cable being used and the environment of the installation.

Very few people have installations where they have had signal problems with short cable runs. I have a 10' DVI cable and a 6' HDMI/DVI cable. They are both "low cost" cables and seem to be passing a clean signal.

Many people report trouble free operation with "low cost" cables at 25'. At that distance some cable/environment combinations might require cables with better quality than the very cheapest cables provide.

My only Monster digital cable is an audio optical cable and it's the only cable I've ever had that failed. I keep it around to remind me about the powers of marketing.

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post #736 of 21399 Old 05-13-2006, 01:38 PM
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Most of the customers simply don't realize that they can purchase equivalent warranties and cables at far more reasonable prices from other sources.

I was asking earlier in this thread about what 3rd party warranty companies exist that we can obtian the extended warranty through.
I ordered my 5088 from tweeter last weekend and although they matched TVA's price on the set their 5 year warranty was $200 higher than the comparable one at TVA.
I can still cancel it if someone knows off a better deal through an authorized reputable company.
Feel free to PM me if need be.
Thanks
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post #737 of 21399 Old 05-13-2006, 02:07 PM
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The part that is important is the HDCP handshake.

If 1's and 0's get scrambled, so would the HDCP handshake and you'd get snow/video drop out either portions of the time, or completely.

I've run the $150 HDMI cable and back to back the $15 one from Parts Express no difference.

I believe if you get a picture, then the cable is good.

On the flip side I threw together my DVD-Audio setup together with some cheap analog cables I had while I waited for my $160 3' analog cables to show up and there was a world of difference in the sound.
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post #738 of 21399 Old 05-13-2006, 02:10 PM
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OK, now that my new 61" Sammy arrives tomorrow, I also need a HD upconverting DVD player. I've looked on the CC website, and have only found players that upconvert upto 1080i. Are there any DVD players that upconvert to 1080p that are not HD-DVD or Bluray players? If so, can I get it from Circuit City? I've heard interesting things about this "Oppo" player; what's all the fuss about that? I just want the best quality DVD player (that is NOT HD-DVD or Bluray) to show off my Sammy's awesome features!
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post #739 of 21399 Old 05-13-2006, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by tg2k View Post

Marketing is a funny thing. You charge enough and people will think a Ford is a Ferrari. Monster (the biggest cable marketing machine I know of) has been around for a long time, and they've expanded to cover nearly every kind of AV cable (I only noticed their speaker wire when I last bought speaker wire, over 10 years ago). You pick up the packaging and it spouts a bunch of nonsense about how the cable will eliminate interference, pass the signal perfectly, etc. Will you notice the difference with generic speaker wire of the same gauge, versus Monster or something similarly hyped?

Let me tell you another story. I used to live in the south SF Bay. When Laserland (an audiophile AV store that also sold LDs/DVDs) there went out of business (couldn't compete with bigger stores) I got to see the speaker wire they themselves used--because they were selling it now. It wasn't any special brand. I think they did like a lot of people on avsforum and picked it up someplace like Home Depot, connected their own banana plugs/spades/pins/whatever, and used it. That's what they showed off their high-end speakers with. Obviously they weren't convinced by Monster.

With the various signal cables, a similar argument can be made. With digital cables it should either work or problems should be very noticeable. Get cheap digital optical audio cables, and if you notice anything on your cheap HDMI, only then seek something higher-end (I understand that if you go over 15 feet or so you need to go through hoops with HDMI, which won't be an issue for me). For your other analog cables (where necessary), I wouldn't sweat it too badly. There may be an advantage to better cables (probably in the shielding) but I wouldn't pay tons of money on them. Get the best you can at a place like www.monoprice.com (or one of the other places people have mentioned--I just mention monoprice because it's where I've shopped) and don't be taken in by the pretty packaging and reputation. Remember that a lot of very satisfied customers are on these forums, people who bought their cables cheaply. For me, the bragging rights of buying something expensive aren't worth the guilt from over-spending on a hyped-up marketing machine. You can spend that extra $500 on getting a better TV instead, right?

Thanks for the advice. Much appreciated.
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post #740 of 21399 Old 05-13-2006, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by KCWolfPck View Post

To those that have requested some pics, here are a few more. I have some from HDNet, one from an SD basketball game, and a couple of XBox 360.

The pictures really don't do this TV justice, but they are the best I could do for now.
















Nice pics, do you think you can take a few in complete darkness? Thanks!


PSN: J_Rodz2588
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post #741 of 21399 Old 05-13-2006, 06:19 PM
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Nice pics, do you think you can take a few in complete darkness? Thanks!

Please don't take this personally, but I need to point out the bandwidth load added to AVS from posts that leave pictures in quotes.

I enjoy seeing great pictures like the ones you quoted. Yours is the second post that "quoted" the entire original message, pictures and all to basically say, "Nice pictures".

If you ever find that AVS is slow or that messages you are looking for are archived, then you understand why quoting large amounts of data can be a drag one the whole system. It's also possible that the folks running AVS may feel that they need to restrict picture posting if the volume gets too high.

There is one member who is famous for quoting big messages just to say things like, "I agree." In his case, many attempts to get him to edit his "quotes" down to the exact portion that he is replying to have been in vain.

Keep the pictures (new ones) coming.

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post #742 of 21399 Old 05-13-2006, 07:18 PM
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I need to point out the bandwidth load added to AVS from posts that leave pictures in quotes.

OK, I edited my post to include my (one) fav of the eight pix.

to each his own...
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post #743 of 21399 Old 05-13-2006, 07:49 PM
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Please don't take this personally, but I need to point out the bandwidth load added to AVS from posts that leave pictures in quotes.

I enjoy seeing great pictures like the ones you quoted. Yours is the second post that "quoted" the entire original message, pictures and all to basically say, "Nice pictures".

If you ever find that AVS is slow or that messages you are looking for are archived, then you understand why quoting large amounts of data can be a drag one the whole system. It's also possible that the folks running AVS may feel that they need to restrict picture posting if the volume gets too high.

There is one member who is famous for quoting big messages just to say things like, "I agree." In his case, many attempts to get him to edit his "quotes" down to the exact portion that he is replying to have been in vain.

Keep the pictures (new ones) coming.

htwaits - Since I am hosting these photos through my internet service provider, how are they bogging down the AVS forums bandwidth? Wouldn't it be my ISPs bandwidth that would be getting bogged down? Just curious because I didn't upload these photos to any AVS forum server.


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post #744 of 21399 Old 05-13-2006, 09:38 PM
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While I tend to mostly lurk, I wanted to post a quick "report" as a small payback to the forums for all the knowledge/advice I've gleaned and to provide some more info for any who may still have doubts about these new sammies....

I just picked up my new 6187 a few hours ago from BB. I'm coming from a Mitsu WS-65613. After much research especially on this board, my choices lay between the Sony 60 SXRD and the 6187. I had doubts about losing the 4", and was wondering if my 'gain' was really worth the $$ by upgrading out of the Mitsu.

Well, heck ya it was. I just watched a dvd fed by my Oppo @ 1080i and I have to say without a shadow of a doubt I have made a VAST improvement in PQ.

Tomorrow I plan to play around with my older Denon DVD-1600 (480p) and with the inputs of the Oppo and see if I notice any difference in PQ between the Oppo upscaling or the 6187's upscaler. If not I'm going to sell the Oppo to my buddy who bought the Mitsu as he will need it more than me as the Mitsu does not upscale. I'm considering the soon-to-be-released Samsung HD-960 mainly for the HDMI outputs and price.

I was concerned when viewing the sets in stores about how typically the SXRD looked better, and I often saw flaws with the HL-S PQ. But ultimately, the cost difference swayed my decision. I'm now confident that the BM stores are simply not doing the sets justice with their connections. Like others have stated the PQ is just awesome now that I have it home and in no way do I feel like I should have gone with the Sony. For me, considering the savings in $$, the 1080p inputs, and heck even the extra 1" I think its a no contest.

Fan noise: I can only hear it with the room dead silent while crouching immediately next to the set. Its simply not an issue for me.

RBE: Did not notice it, but wasn't trying either!

Sparkles: Non yet, but only watched 1 dvd.

I'm very excited and pleased with my purchase, and would glady recommend this set to anyone. Can't wait to watch Soppranos and Big Love in HD tommorrow night!

On another note, as of right now I do miss the 4" . But I'm going to play with my seating distance and maybe that will help. Besides, after a few weeks hopefully I'll forget.

Well, hope that helps anyone to make a wise decision as I feel I have. Now off to find a stand. Wife doesn't much care for the multiple tray tables I have it sitting on now
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post #745 of 21399 Old 05-13-2006, 09:47 PM
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htwaits - Since I am hosting these photos through my internet service provider, how are they bogging down the AVS forums bandwidth? Wouldn't it be my ISPs bandwidth that would be getting bogged down? Just curious because I didn't upload these photos to any AVS forum server.

I didn't check to see how you displayed your pictures, but I think you are right. I seemed to have posted a worthwhile message at exactly the wrong time.

Timing is everything.

By the way, the pictures you posted are very good.

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post #746 of 21399 Old 05-13-2006, 09:53 PM
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OK, I edited my post to include my (one) fav of the eight pix.

If you have read KCWolfPck's message and my reply you know that what I wrote didn't really apply to your message, or to the way you used the quote feature. I should have checked to see how KCWolfPck was displaying his pictures before I used your message as an example of "bandwidth bloat".

I apologize.

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post #747 of 21399 Old 05-13-2006, 11:03 PM
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Hi all, great stuff being written here! This is my first question so thought I join in on the act. My old CRT phillips/magnavox has no color so now I'm forced to get a new tv (darn, lol). I am thinking getting the S5087W (instead of last year's HLR5067) and had a question:

Since I decided to get a 50" for my living room, I'm really confused whether 1080p is really worth getting instead of a 720p. I've read from many posts that picture quality doesn't really matter if the set is less than 61", meaning, 1080p is only worth it for sets larger than 61" and that you should just get a 720p instead (hence the HLR5067).

Can someone please confirm this? How do you new S5087W owners think? I know ultimately I need to see some for myelf (went to BB so far) but what is the general consenus on this idea? Financially, it's not a concern but I really don't want to blow an extra $300-$400 for technology I really can't discern when watching.

I will use this TV for mostly DVD movies, and comcast cable. Sorry for the noob question! Thanks!
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post #748 of 21399 Old 05-13-2006, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by PipeHitter View Post

While I tend to mostly lurk, I wanted to post a quick "report" as a small payback to the forums for all the knowledge/advice I've gleaned and to provide some more info for any who may still have doubts about these new sammies....

I just picked up my new 6187 a few hours ago from BB. I'm coming from a Mitsu WS-65613. After much research especially on this board, my choices lay between the Sony 60 SXRD and the 6187. I had doubts about losing the 4", and was wondering if my 'gain' was really worth the $$ by upgrading out of the Mitsu.

Well, heck ya it was. I just watched a dvd fed by my Oppo @ 1080i and I have to say without a shadow of a doubt I have made a VAST improvement in PQ.

Tomorrow I plan to play around with my older Denon DVD-1600 (480p) and with the inputs of the Oppo and see if I notice any difference in PQ between the Oppo upscaling or the 6187's upscaler. If not I'm going to sell the Oppo to my buddy who bought the Mitsu as he will need it more than me as the Mitsu does not upscale. I'm considering the soon-to-be-released Samsung HD-960 mainly for the HDMI outputs and price.

I was concerned when viewing the sets in stores about how typically the SXRD looked better, and I often saw flaws with the HL-S PQ. But ultimately, the cost difference swayed my decision. I'm now confident that the BM stores are simply not doing the sets justice with their connections. Like others have stated the PQ is just awesome now that I have it home and in no way do I feel like I should have gone with the Sony. For me, considering the savings in $$, the 1080p inputs, and heck even the extra 1" I think its a no contest.

Fan noise: I can only hear it with the room dead silent while crouching immediately next to the set. Its simply not an issue for me.

RBE: Did not notice it, but wasn't trying either!

Sparkles: Non yet, but only watched 1 dvd.

I'm very excited and pleased with my purchase, and would glady recommend this set to anyone. Can't wait to watch Soppranos and Big Love in HD tommorrow night!

On another note, as of right now I do miss the 4" . But I'm going to play with my seating distance and maybe that will help. Besides, after a few weeks hopefully I'll forget.

Well, hope that helps anyone to make a wise decision as I feel I have. Now off to find a stand. Wife doesn't much care for the multiple tray tables I have it sitting on now

Great to hear, thanks for the report! Make sure to check back in after you've watched some TV on it. I'd like to hear your thoughts on both the HD and SD. Glad to hear you're enjoying your new set.

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post #749 of 21399 Old 05-14-2006, 12:12 AM
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I can answer that for you. The black levels are equal if not deeper than that of the sony sxrd, I should know, I had 4 sxrd's in a five month period. That is in a totally dark room with only an ambilight behind the screen. I play my xbox360 games at night and they look awesome ( no lag whatsoever either). Blacks are black as black as I have seen on a microdisplay. Shadow detail equals the sxrd imho as well ( I think the 10 bit processing helps a lot).

Thanks for the response. I was actually hoping the blacks improved a bit over the current SXRD. And if the shadow detail is as good as the SXRD, I may go back to a DLP. The 70" SXRD is just going to be too much $ for someone who likes to upgrade. $5k for a 70" Sammy (and likely could get a discount) isn't bad at all. Microdisplays have come down a bit in price. I'm going to have to checkout the new Mits when in comes out too. At $4k for a 65" model is a great deal too. The 2005 Mits' by far had the best processing (although it lacked brightness) out of all the microdisplays that year. That went out the door last year. I'll likely be considering the 65" & 73" Mits and the 70" Samsung.
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post #750 of 21399 Old 05-14-2006, 12:33 AM
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Originally Posted by dmenace View Post

Hi all, great stuff being written here! This is my first question so thought I join in on the act. My old CRT phillips/magnavox has no color so now I'm forced to get a new tv (darn, lol). I am thinking getting the S5087W (instead of last year's HLR5067) and had a question:

Since I decided to get a 50" for my living room, I'm really confused whether 1080p is really worth getting instead of a 720p. I've read from many posts that picture quality doesn't really matter if the set is less than 61", meaning, 1080p is only worth it for sets larger than 61" and that you should just get a 720p instead (hence the HLR5067).

Can someone please confirm this? How do you new S5087W owners think? I know ultimately I need to see some for myelf (went to BB so far) but what is the general consenus on this idea? Financially, it's not a concern but I really don't want to blow an extra $300-$400 for technology I really can't discern when watching.

I will use this TV for mostly DVD movies, and comcast cable. Sorry for the noob question! Thanks!

In my opinion, and Samsung's, it makes a difference. Why would they offer a 50" 1080P set, but not one that is smaller in size. 50" is about the sweet spot where you start to notice the difference.
The best is still if you go and compare for yourself. Just go to a local store that carries both the 1080p and 720p models and start comparing.
Have fun!
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