DON'T BUY 1080p TVs! - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 389 Old 04-24-2006, 01:21 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David F
Hey, Auditor, if/when the mythical SED sets show up in late 2007, will you buy a 720p or a 1080p version (assuming both are offered)? I mean, if there's no benefit to 1080p, you should opt for the lower rez (and cheaper) 720p.

First of all I presently sit 9 feet away from my screen, if there are SED sets that become available in both resolutions, both being 50 inches, but the 1080p set cost 1-2k more than the 720p set, do to human vision limitations, I'm getting the 720p set because 1080p will be of no benefit to me at that size and viewing distance.

If both cost the same, I would get the 1080p set, just to keep up with the Joneses at no additional charge. :)
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post #92 of 389 Old 04-24-2006, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Auditor55
I care about resolution, that is noticeable picture quality improvement that I can prove is directly related to increased resolution. I look forward to SED based upon what that technology promises to bring us. I would take a 720p SED set over a 1080p SXRD, DLP, LCD any day.
Let's think a little smaller, shall we? :rolleyes:

Every generation of set has inherent improvements, resolution aside. This year's Mits DLPs look markedly better than last years, resolution being one reason, but with many more to add to that.

Do you think the SXRD sets look that good solely due to resolution? Is that where the black level comes from? How about color depth?

The First Clarke Law states, 'If an elderly but distinguished scientist says that something is possible he is almost certainly right, but if he says that it is impossible he is very probably wrong.'
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post #93 of 389 Old 04-24-2006, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Auditor55
"STOP!

Enough of this nonsense. It’s time to set the record straight, to clear up the air about what 1080p is and isn’t.

First off, there is no 1080p HDTV transmission format. There is a 1080p/24 production format in wide use for prime time TV shows and some feature films. But these programs must be converted to 1080i/30 (that’s interlaced, not progressive scan) before airing on any terrestrial, satellite, or cable TV network."
[ by Pete Putman, HDTV Expert]

In view of Mr. Putman's comment, which I completely agree with (along with his call to stop the nonsense), it's time for someone to set record straight. Someone said that Mr. Putman comments above are old news, that might be so, however they are still true, there is still no 1080p transmission format as of 4/20/2006.

So you can try to demonize that man call him all kinds of horrbile things but that won't do away with the facts that he has cited.
Reading comprehension must not have been something taught at your school.

He said that 1080i (interlaced) DEinterlaces nicely to 1080p. In other words, he did say that the signal into your home is 1080i, relying on the internal scaler to create a 1080p image.

The First Clarke Law states, 'If an elderly but distinguished scientist says that something is possible he is almost certainly right, but if he says that it is impossible he is very probably wrong.'
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post #94 of 389 Old 04-24-2006, 01:29 PM
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1080i is 1920 pixels X 1080 pixels


So having a display that is 1920 X 1080 is good IMO. :)
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post #95 of 389 Old 04-24-2006, 01:31 PM
 
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"You and I upgrade in Feet and Kilowatts, they upgrade in Inches and Joules"

You upgrade because you have what some call "Affluenza" or keeping up with the Joneses syndrome. You must consume to feel good and that is why big electronic companies and their marketeers have profiled you and sought you out so they can get you to buy their latest and greatest new fangled technology while offering no real benefit you.
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post #96 of 389 Old 04-24-2006, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by ogbuehi
So it sounds like we should wait until 1080p becomes more commonplace.
If you only listen to Auditor, then yes. :confused:

The First Clarke Law states, 'If an elderly but distinguished scientist says that something is possible he is almost certainly right, but if he says that it is impossible he is very probably wrong.'
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post #97 of 389 Old 04-24-2006, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55
"You and I upgrade in Feet and Kilowatts, they upgrade in Inches and Joules"

You upgrade because you have what some call "Affluenza" or keeping up with the Joneses syndrome. You must consume to feel good and that is why big electronic companies and their marketeers have profiled you and sought you out so they can get you to buy their latest and greatest new fangled technology while offering no real benefit you.
And the "Bitter Old Man in the Small Apartment Award" goes to...

The First Clarke Law states, 'If an elderly but distinguished scientist says that something is possible he is almost certainly right, but if he says that it is impossible he is very probably wrong.'
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post #98 of 389 Old 04-24-2006, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55
Just kidding!! No, 1080P is not snake oil and Auditor55 is a tool.
Congratulations on the most accurate post from you to date. :p

The First Clarke Law states, 'If an elderly but distinguished scientist says that something is possible he is almost certainly right, but if he says that it is impossible he is very probably wrong.'
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post #99 of 389 Old 04-24-2006, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55
First of all I presently sit 9 feet away from my screen, if there are SED sets that become available in both resolutions, both being 50 inches, but the 1080p set cost 1-2k more than the 720p set, do to human vision limitations, I'm getting the 720p set because 1080p will be of no benefit to me at that size and viewing distance.

If both cost the same, I would get the 1080p set, just to keep up with the Joneses at no additional charge. :)
In the newest models on the market, price differential between 720p and 1080p is $500.00.
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post #100 of 389 Old 04-24-2006, 01:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55
I care about resolution, that is noticeable picture quality improvement that I can prove is directly related to increased resolution. I look forward to SED based upon what that technology promises to bring us. I would take a 720p SED set over a 1080p SXRD, DLP, LCD any day.
I'd take a 1080p SED over a 720p SED set any day. ;)
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post #101 of 389 Old 04-24-2006, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55
1) Why would the the global TV buying public want to spend over 3k for so-called 1080p set only to turn around and spend probably more for an external scaler just to take andvantage of 1080p inputs.
The Tvs scale to 1080p quite well, thanks.

Quote:
2) Why would the global TV set buying public want to spend over 3k on 1080p set if there isn't any 1080p native content 1080p/60 via, broadcast, cable of satellite. The masses of folks don't buy TV's for prerecorded conent i.e. Blu-Ray and HD-DVD, two formats that's not guaranteed to succeed.
That's not the point, for the 500th time. There are other benefits to 1080p, most notable fulfilling the promise of seeing 1080i not being dumbed down to 720p.

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3) As far as Playstation 3 goes, most people who buy those game console (young people) don't give a rats behind about 1080p, more than likely they will be connecting it up to a standard definition set. Just like Xbox 360, I doubt that most of the people that purchased them did so because they are capable of outputting a HD signal.
Average age of a gamer is 32. I'm sure your extensive research in Consumer Reports revealed that. I guarantee that bracket DOES care about the best they can get in this realm, especially on this forum.

Quote:
4) Most people in the know, that is HD Experts, will tell you that 1080p is of some benefit on screen sizes about 60 inches and above sitting at a certain distance. Who really wants to sit 9 feet from 60 inch set, with the exception of some AVS'ers, not most people. If you have big 60 inch TV in your living sitting at 9 feet more than likely its not going to fit in with the room decor, its going look to awkard and out of place. With a 50 inch set, unless you are sitting 6 to 7 feet away, you are not going to see the advantages of 1080p over 720p. Do you really want to sit that close to your set? Some do, but I would argue most do not.
Well, since you want a "HD Expert" you have me. Again, the step to 1080p is but one step and feature in this evolution. Take a set from last year, and implant a 1080p chipset, and I guarantee you (well, maybe not you) will see differences.

Most of us sans cataracts have no issues in this regard.

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5) How many people have been subjected to any type of controlled comparison test between 720p and 1080p set/content.
All one has to do is look at them side by side to see. I guarantee that happened while retailers were trying to move their older 720p sets, while trying to convince you there wasn't much difference. ;) Again, resolution is but one of 8-10 things involved in this evolutionary step.

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I would predict that at least for the next 10 years 90-95% of the content viewed on your TV, 720p, 1080i or 1080p sets will be 720p or 1080i based. You won't see any significant native 1080p/60 conent within that time if ever. External Scalers don't count because that's not native 1080p.
And I predict you won't be around in 10 years. So, I can see why you don't care about the evolution of this tech.

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DO TO THE IMPENDING FORMAT WAR, THERE IS NO GUARANTEE THAT BLU-RAY OR HD-DVD WILL SUCCEED!!
Format war? We'll see how that plays out with universal players due in the 4th quarter this year. Do not think the industry didn't learn from the DVD-A/SACD events.

Quote:
If you are going to get a 1080p set get one with a good deinterlacer and scaler because 90-95% of the content viewed will need to be scaled and properly deinterlaced.
I will agree that there A) Will be more sets that take a 1080p input, and B) More sources to drive those inputs. The lack of these today shouldn't stop the enthusiast from taking advantage of this.

The First Clarke Law states, 'If an elderly but distinguished scientist says that something is possible he is almost certainly right, but if he says that it is impossible he is very probably wrong.'
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post #102 of 389 Old 04-24-2006, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55
Show me some research that indicates a significant demand for Blu-Ray, HD-DVD, 1080 content or 1080p displays among the global set buying public.
Why don't you show me some research that indicates that there is not substantial benefit to 1080p. Have you been part of super-secret double blind probationary testing?

Why don't you show me proof that African cats are both African and cats?

P.S.


This post is an example of Auditor's "obfuscate and argue" posting tactic. He's much better at it than I am.
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post #103 of 389 Old 04-24-2006, 02:13 PM
 
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Honestly people here can't help somebody see a difference if they have phycical limitations or abnormalitys. Just like trying to teach somebody who is tone def.. If somebody has limited vision abitities and can't tell an improvement in over twice the resolution that isn't something I can teach them.
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post #104 of 389 Old 04-24-2006, 02:17 PM
 
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Originally Posted by schticker
Reading comprehension must not have been something taught at your school.

He said that 1080i (interlaced) DEinterlaces nicely to 1080p. In other words, he did say that the signal into your home is 1080i, relying on the internal scaler to create a 1080p image.
I completely understand what he was saying. Having owned both JVC 1080P and Sony SXRD sets I can truly agree, both sets deinterlaced 1080i sources nicely.
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post #105 of 389 Old 04-24-2006, 02:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by briankmonkey
Honestly people here can't help somebody see a difference if they have phycical limitations or abnormalitys. Just like trying to teach somebody who is tone def.. If somebody has limited vision abitities and can't tell an improvement in over twice the resolution that isn't something I can teach them.
Unfortunately most of us human beings are afflicted with vision limitations. :(
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post #106 of 389 Old 04-24-2006, 02:30 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dropKickMurphy
In the newest models on the market, price differential between 720p and 1080p is $500.00.

Were talking about SED here. Anyway, you can buy a 50 inch LCD set for 1,799.00 a 50 inch SXRD is going run you 3-3.5k.
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post #107 of 389 Old 04-24-2006, 02:38 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Auditor55
Unfortunately most of us human beings are afflicted with vision limitations. :(
yes, but sadly some are much more limited than others. Somebody like my sister who needs very thick glasses to read normally wouldn't be able see the difference from 720p and 1080p without them. Of course with glasses and most people with vision capable enough to legally drive can easily discern the difference ;)
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post #108 of 389 Old 04-24-2006, 02:39 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55
I completely understand what he was saying. Having owned both JVC 1080P and Sony SXRD sets I can truly agree, both sets deinterlaced 1080i sources nicely.
So why are you still posting?
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post #109 of 389 Old 04-24-2006, 02:45 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ChrisWiggles
So why are you still posting?
Go back and read post 90 and please respond to the questions and comments I made.
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post #110 of 389 Old 04-24-2006, 02:48 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gremmy
Why don't you show me some research that indicates that there is not substantial benefit to 1080p. Have you been part of super-secret double blind probationary testing?

Why don't you show me proof that African cats are both African and cats?

P.S.


This post is an example of Auditor's "obfuscate and argue" posting tactic. He's much better at it than I am.

I think I cited David Ranada's "Maxing out Resolution" article as a point of authority.

Here's and excerpt from that article.

"If your room layout restricts either your viewing distance or the screen size, you actually have more choices. Say you're limited to a seating distance of around 10 feet and a screen width of 50 inches. In this case buying a 1080i/p set won't get you better resolution than a 50-inch 720p set (the 10-foot/50-inch point lies above the 1080i/p trace). You might be able to save some money by choosing a 720p model. Then again, all screen sizes seem to be switching over to 1080i/p pixel counts, and eventually 720p sets may be hard to find." [by David Ranada, S&V Magazine]
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post #111 of 389 Old 04-24-2006, 02:52 PM
 
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"
Well, since you want a "HD Expert" you have me. "


Please explain what qualifies you as an expert, please cite your credentials.

Thank you.
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post #112 of 389 Old 04-24-2006, 02:54 PM
 
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"In this case buying a 1080i/p set won't get you better resolution than a 50-inch 720p set"

actually it will get you over twice the resolution.
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post #113 of 389 Old 04-24-2006, 02:54 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schticker
Let's think a little smaller, shall we? :rolleyes:

Every generation of set has inherent improvements, resolution aside. This year's Mits DLPs look markedly better than last years, resolution being one reason, but with many more to add to that.

Do you think the SXRD sets look that good solely due to resolution? Is that where the black level comes from? How about color depth?
Don't you mean purple-tinted black level :)
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post #114 of 389 Old 04-24-2006, 03:38 PM
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I can't believe you people spent 4 pages and 112 posts arguing with this guy, just do what I did and put him on your ignore list and be Auditor-free for life! :p
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post #115 of 389 Old 04-24-2006, 03:42 PM
 
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Originally Posted by TwinTurboZX
I can't believe you people spent 4 pages and 112 posts arguing with this guy, just do what I did and put him on your ignore list and be Auditor-free for life! :p
Don't be foolish enough to believe you could escape me!! :D
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post #116 of 389 Old 04-24-2006, 03:46 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by briankmonkey
"In this case buying a 1080i/p set won't get you better resolution than a 50-inch 720p set"

actually it will get you over twice the resolution.
So I take it with your Clark Kent/Superman vision you would notice that 2 times better resolution on a 50 inch set sitting 9 feet away
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post #117 of 389 Old 04-24-2006, 03:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55
So I take it with your Clark Kent/Superman vision you would notice that 2 times better resolution on a 50 inch set sitting 9 feet away
I suggest you go back and reread slowly. If that doesn't work, I don't have any other suggestions as I don't have the ability to teach you better comprehension skills.
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post #118 of 389 Old 04-24-2006, 04:06 PM
 
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Pete Putman's creditials:


PETER H. PUTMAN — BIOGRAPHY




Pete Putman is president of ROAM Consulting, Inc; based in Doylestown, PA. His company provides training, marketing communications, and product testing/development services to manufacturers of projectors, monitors, integrated TVs, and display interfaces.

Peter is a senior editor for Access Intelligence magazines, including AV Video and Film and Video. Over the past two decades, he has authored hundreds of technical articles, reviews, and columns for magazines including Video Systems, Sound & Video Contractor, Millimeter, Best Stuff, eTown.com, The Perfect Vision, Emedia, Electronic House, Connected, Stereophile Guide to Home Theater, and Home Theater magazines.

His articles have covered a wide range of topics including front and rear projection technology, flat panel technology (LCD, plasma, OLEDs), video format converters, electronic cinema, digital television and HDTV reception and display, LED displays, and networked AV installations.

Pete was well-known for his unique in-depth reviews of the Projection Shoot-Out at InfoComm. He's been a featured speaker at numerous trade shows including CES and NAB, and has taught courses on flat screen display technology and digital television at InfoComm since 1997. Pete has also presented on a variety of topics during manufacturer events for FSR, Mitsubishi, Sony, Barco, Panasonic, Barco, Barco Events, and Sharp.

Pete holds a BA degree in Communications from Seton Hall University and an MS degree in Television and Film from Syracuse University. He’s an adjunct faculty member for the International Communications Industries Association (ICIA), as well as a member of the Society of Motion Picture and Television Engineers (SMPTE) and Society for Information Display (SID). He also holds certifications from the ICIA (Certified Technology Specialist) and the Imaging Science Foundation (ISF).

Pete has held Extra Class amateur radio license KT2B since 1982. He was active in the design, construction, and operation of transmitters, receivers, and antennas for VHF, UHF, and microwave operation from the early 1970s through 1995. Pete also wrote a regular column on VHF/UHF/microwave operation for 73 Amateur Radio from 1985 until 1989, and has also contributed to QST, the official publication of the American Radio Relay League.
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post #120 of 389 Old 04-24-2006, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55
I think I cited David Ranada's "Maxing out Resolution" article as a point of authority.

Here's and excerpt from that article.

"If your room layout restricts either your viewing distance or the screen size, you actually have more choices. Say you're limited to a seating distance of around 10 feet and a screen width of 50 inches. In this case buying a 1080i/p set won't get you better resolution than a 50-inch 720p set (the 10-foot/50-inch point lies above the 1080i/p trace). You might be able to save some money by choosing a 720p model. Then again, all screen sizes seem to be switching over to 1080i/p pixel counts, and eventually 720p sets may be hard to find." [by David Ranada, S&V Magazine]
I am convinced that you and Zues are the same person. Can we get an IP check here?

It's kind of like you and your alter ego have a Smart cop, Dumb cop thing going on. Only you're both playing the same part.

P.S.

Don't bother replying to this, Auditor. Not that I expect you to care, but you are officially on ignore. You spew facts, cite sources, and regurgitate information that doesn't directly contradict anything that anyone is saying, and yet you use this information as grounds for dispute and disagreement. It doesn't make any sense, and I'm tired of reading your garbage.

P.P.S.

Don't pretend like you won't miss me. You never did get that kiss.
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