50" SXRD - Is the 'Green Blob' as common as its made out to be? - AVS Forum
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Old 06-01-2006, 05:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi everyone

I've been really looking into this set and plan to buy one tomorrow morning.

First off, I would like to apologize for not using one of the existing threads - I am just looking for a quick answer before I make the purchase. Feel free to delete this if its the wrong place - I did search (and put in several hours) but was unable to find an exact answer.

I was all set without any regrets until just now in reading the "Green Blob" issues.. After reading the thread about this, its really gotten me worried and giving me last minute thoughts about whether its the right purchase or not.

In judging the sets at Best Buy it was by far the most impressive - I know I couldn't get one of the lesser models as it would just be a disappointment (and I'd rather stick to my current CRT than go that route).

My biggest question is really just how big of an issue the "Green Blob" is. This is one of the things I hear all sorts of mixed thoughts on (another example would be the Plasmas which I was considering before this - after reading how "Burn in is almost entirely a thing of the past.. Plasma is almost as immune as CRT Nowadays" only to find hundreds of people discussing permanent burn in after watching 2 hours of the news on their set). The "Green Blob" had several people complaining of the problem.. but how bad is it really? Are we talking 90% of the sets have it, or is it overall a very small portion?

I do plan to get a warranty with it, but I would also like a set that lasts.

I'm far from a videophile and will most likely not have it professionally calibrated - I just want a picture that looks good that I can watch movies on, play games on, and watch TV from time to time. I'm not too worried about small issues that go unnoticable to "the average person".

EDIT: I also hear the newer models are not as prone to this problem as the original ones - is there any way to tell (by the packaging) when it was manufactured, or anything specific to look for to get a newer model?
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Old 06-01-2006, 06:08 AM
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The just released Samsung 2006 1080p input capable displays have better picture quality and are much less expensive.
Why take the chance of getting stuck with an LCOS panel known to be unreliable? Is it the Sony name?

If you insist on Sony then at least wait a bit for the 2006 models. Surely they have got to be better.
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Old 06-01-2006, 08:27 AM
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I don't know about "common," but I do believe that for some the issue is real, for others it is not. I have owned my 50" SXRD since early March (October build) and have not experienced any negative issues at all, at least that my untrained eyes can see. I am completely happy with my unit and would recommend it without hesitation.

If it sounds good, it is good.

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Old 06-01-2006, 09:00 AM
 
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Its not so much of a problem, as a systemic design fault that exists in all the SXRDs to some degree.
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Old 06-01-2006, 09:11 AM
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I wouldn't take the risk. Wait for the 2006 models to see if the problem has been corrected. While the PQ is stellar, the color uniformity issues just plain suck.

"Guns? Guns are easy."
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Old 06-01-2006, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maximum360 View Post

I wouldn't take the risk. Wait for the 2006 models to see if the problem has been corrected. While the PQ is stellar, the color uniformity issues just plain suck.

Some say color uniformity sucks. Most of them have said it many, many times. However, the majority of the owners, me included, have no problems. I consider the SXRD to be my best audio/video purchase and I've been buying top rated sets/componets for over forty years.

None of the reviewers have rated it as a significant fault.
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Old 06-01-2006, 09:58 AM
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I have the green blob, but disappears within a minute or less of warm up. I have looked at several rp tv's and find this still to be the best picture quality of them all. I am still totally satisfied.

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Old 06-01-2006, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sofdec7 View Post

Hi everyone

I've been really looking into this set and plan to buy one tomorrow morning.

First off, I would like to apologize for not using one of the existing threads - I am just looking for a quick answer before I make the purchase. Feel free to delete this if its the wrong place - I did search (and put in several hours) but was unable to find an exact answer.

I was all set without any regrets until just now in reading the "Green Blob" issues.. After reading the thread about this, its really gotten me worried and giving me last minute thoughts about whether its the right purchase or not.

In judging the sets at Best Buy it was by far the most impressive - I know I couldn't get one of the lesser models as it would just be a disappointment (and I'd rather stick to my current CRT than go that route).

My biggest question is really just how big of an issue the "Green Blob" is. This is one of the things I hear all sorts of mixed thoughts on (another example would be the Plasmas which I was considering before this - after reading how "Burn in is almost entirely a thing of the past.. Plasma is almost as immune as CRT Nowadays" only to find hundreds of people discussing permanent burn in after watching 2 hours of the news on their set). The "Green Blob" had several people complaining of the problem.. but how bad is it really? Are we talking 90% of the sets have it, or is it overall a very small portion?

I do plan to get a warranty with it, but I would also like a set that lasts.

I'm far from a videophile and will most likely not have it professionally calibrated - I just want a picture that looks good that I can watch movies on, play games on, and watch TV from time to time. I'm not too worried about small issues that go unnoticable to "the average person".

EDIT: I also hear the newer models are not as prone to this problem as the original ones - is there any way to tell (by the packaging) when it was manufactured, or anything specific to look for to get a newer model?

I can't tell to with exact certainly what the % of problematic SXRD sets there are, however I can tell you that I have had 4 for 4 with issues. Now each one had their own separate quality issues but the one common problem that each had was a form of the color non-uniformity issues (aka green blob). I say form because the precise location and color was different from set to set. For example, on one it was a green blob center of screen, the other had blush/purple corners, on another my most current SXRD I have a very green (actually its more of an aqua color) corner that extends to about 15%-20% of that part of the screen and only visible in dark or black scenes (quite aggravating). There have been other quality issues as well, i.e. convergence but the one common theme seems to be the color uniformity. If you read through the threads and apparently you have, this is the same theme that you will find if you can cut through all the BS and bickering. My line of work is QC and I can tell you in my expert opinion this light engine or the process in which it is assembled and produced is fatality flawed and Sony's QC process for whatever reason is not filtering it out. We are all hoping Sony will have this addressed with the new 2nd gen 2006 SXRD models. But there lack of support for the 2005 model has some of us wondering.....
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Old 06-01-2006, 10:13 AM
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I would say most is a case of the "snowball" forum effect...a few complain, and then all of a sudden its a severe problem that everyone has...ala rainbows in DLP.

From most accounts, the green blob that some see disappears after warm up anyhow...

The existing SXRD are the top rated sets in a dearth of magazines/websites...in addition, they received the highest rating on CNET of any RPTV to date...that speaks a lot...
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Old 06-01-2006, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GBFreek View Post

I would say most is a case of the "snowball" forum effect...a few complain, and then all of a sudden its a severe problem that everyone has...ala rainbows in DLP.

From most accounts, the green blob that some see disappears after warm up anyhow...

The existing SXRD are the top rated sets in a dearth of magazines/websites...in addition, they received the highest rating on CNET of any RPTV to date...that speaks a lot...

Well, I don't know about the snow ball effect. I went to visit BB and CC stors in my area and have spotted the 60" with the green blob in two of the stores. Now, these were huuuuuuge green blob, not just a corner of the screen etc.

To me, if Sony has resolved the green blob issue and make their screen a bit brighter, the sets would definitely be much better than the samsung's 87 2006 models. I've seen them both side by side and the Sony show much more details...look at the shrubs, dark areas...you won't believe the details that you might miss if you had purchase the sammy.

On the other hand, if the green blob is still there in the 2006 models.... Sammy wins hands down.
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Old 06-01-2006, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by RudyMeister View Post

Well, I don't know about the snow ball effect. I went to visit BB and CC stors in my area and have spotted the 60" with the green blob in two of the stores. Now, these were huuuuuuge green blob, not just a corner of the screen etc.

To me, if Sony has resolved the green blob issue and make their screen a bit brighter, the sets would definitely be much better than the samsung's 87 2006 models. I've seen them both side by side and the Sony show much more details...look at the shrubs, dark areas...you won't believe the details that you might miss if you had purchase the sammy.

On the other hand, if the green blob is still there in the 2006 models.... Sammy wins hands down.

As for the Samung, turn ON the DNie, set picture mode to normal and color to warm2. Now, all detail is restored.
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Old 06-01-2006, 12:53 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Desert Heat View Post

I can't tell to with exact certainly what the % of problematic SXRD sets there are, however I can tell you that I have had 4 for 4 with issues. Now each one had their own separate quality issues but the one common problem that each had was a form of the color non-uniformity issues (aka green blob). I say form because the precise location and color was different from set to set. For example, on one it was a green blob center of screen, the other had blush/purple corners, on another my most current SXRD I have a very green (actually its more of an aqua color) corner that extends to about 15%-20% of that part of the screen and only visible in dark or black scenes (quite aggravating). There have been other quality issues as well, i.e. convergence but the one common theme seems to be the color uniformity. If you read through the threads and apparently you have, this is the same theme that you will find if you can cut through all the BS and bickering. My line of work is QC and I can tell you in my expert opinion this light engine or the process in which it is assembled and produced is fatality flawed and Sony's QC process for whatever reason is not filtering it out. We are all hoping Sony will have this addressed with the new 2nd gen 2006 SXRD models. But there lack of support for the 2005 model has some of us wondering.....

There is poll in this Rear Projection category and revealed something on the order of 50% of SXRDs had the green glob continuously. If you search you can probably find it. A % of that magnitude only mean its a design defect and becuase you dont see it, doesnt mean its not going to appears when the conditions are right.
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Old 06-01-2006, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by tranzixter View Post

There is poll in this Rear Projection category and revealed something on the order of 50% of SXRDs had the green glob continuously. If you search you can probably find it. A % of that magnitude only mean its a design defect and becuase you dont see it, doesnt mean its not going to appears when the conditions are right.

This comment proves one of three things. You never had a statistics course, you got an "F" if you did have one, or you forgot everything you learned once it was completed. The poll could not be more of an invalid sample and is worthless for projecting anything in terms of percentages about the total population of SXRDs.
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Old 06-01-2006, 02:30 PM
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I also went to BB (Columbia, Md) and Circuit City (Rockville, MD) and a high end B&M and saw the "green blob" on both 50" and 60" sets. The B&M had it on both size sets. That is not a coincidence.
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Old 06-01-2006, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by AEC View Post

I also went to BB (Columbia, Md) and Circuit City (Rockville, MD) and a high end B&M and saw the "green blob" on both 50" and 60" sets. The B&M had it on both size sets. That is not a coincidence.

Obviously not in your mind. But that small sample is statistically meaningless.

Might just mean the dealers in Maryland are idiots. Especially the "high end" store manager that is so stupid/incompetent he doesn't realize that his display units have the infamous green blob. I hope his customers don't expect "high end" guidance.
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Old 06-01-2006, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by AEC View Post

I also went to BB (Columbia, Md) and Circuit City (Rockville, MD) and a high end B&M and saw the "green blob" on both 50" and 60" sets. The B&M had it on both size sets. That is not a coincidence.


I saw the green blob on 3 out of 4 SXRDs at the Burbank CA Bestbuy and Burbank CA Circuit city. The Fry's 60" has a slight green halo- totally livable but their 50" looked perfect. The size of the blob really varies, but I think it is more common than not. I could live with the problem if it was in a small corner of the set, but some of the SXRDs, esp. the 50" at best buy looked truly awful.
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Old 06-01-2006, 03:08 PM
 
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This comment proves one of three things. You never had a statistics course, you got an "F" if you did have one, or you forgot everything you learned once it was completed. The poll could not be more of an invalid sample and is worthless for projecting anything in terms of percentages about the total population of SXRDs.

Your point on the poll being worthless is only if the reader wants it to be. Otherwise its an incredibly insightful survey for the open minded.
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Old 06-01-2006, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by tranzixter View Post

Your point on the poll being worthless is only if the reader wants it to be. Otherwise its an incredibly insightful survey for the open minded.

I said that it is statistically worthless and can't be used for projecting percentages against the entire population of SXRDs. It has nothing to do with what I want; it is a fact. If you disagree with that, you definitely don't make a living as an actuary or designing surveys/polls (or anything else which requires competence in statistics).

It is what it is. Input from readers (some at least once for each alias) of that particular AVS thread, which has SXRD Green Blob in the title. Now who do you think would most likely find the thread and who is even more likely to register their experience? There is nothing random or unbiased about that sample. As I said on that thread, it would be like going into a "free health clinic" in San Francisco, interviewing people in the waiting room, and postulating that a large percentage of males in the United States were gay and had aids.

If you find the comments insightful, that is great. But finding them statistically valid would be for the "empty minded" (as opposed to "open minded").
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Old 06-01-2006, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by tranzixter View Post

Your point on the poll being worthless is only if the reader wants it to be. Otherwise its an incredibly insightful survey for the open minded.

JJsmithin?
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Old 06-01-2006, 05:10 PM
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As has already been pointed out, no one can tell you how common the problem is. I've seen enough around these parts to know that purchasing an '05 XBR is not worth it to me personally. I fear the return-a-set treadmill that some of our well-respected forum members have ended up on.

And while the polls are statistically meaningless, anectdotal evidence is not without value. I have seen the blob myself at the local BB. My experience, combined with that of my fellow forum members, tells me that it's unlikely that the color discontinuity problems are a statistically insignificant anomaly. Having said that, I have no idea how prevalent the problem really is.
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Old 06-01-2006, 05:50 PM
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On the one hand, you have some posters reporting 2, 3 or even 4 sets in a row with significant problems. On the other, you have this thread, where the overwhelming response by SXRD owners was that they're happy with their sets and would buy again.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=641444

I don't know how to reconcile this apparent disparity. Maybe someone else does. All I know is that of the two SXRDs I have personal knowledge of--my own and the one a friend purchased at my suggestion--neither has significant issues, and we both love our tvs.
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Old 06-01-2006, 06:04 PM
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Maybe the poll needs to be repeated with only people who had sets for 3 mos. or longer allowed to vote. That would give us some idea of its reliability in a long run.

Vinod
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Old 06-01-2006, 06:19 PM
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I just purchased a 60" SXRD and for me it is the best set I've ever owned. I had the original Samsung 50" DLP (2002 model) and saw terrible rainbows and then owned a Sony 60" GW-II which had real color uniformity issues. I never saw a sky with clouds without green in it on my GW-II. My SXRD has very slight color uniformity issues and a dust spot on one panel, but the overall experience is absolutely incredible. I'm very picky and was nervous about the "green blob", "blue corners", misconvergence, etc on the SXRD. I went to all the stores stocking the SXRD in St. Louis and of 8 total sets (6 60", 2 50") only one had noticeable green issues on the right side during normal viewing. You'll see more on gray scales, but the overall picture was beautiful on 7 out of 8 sets.

No set is perfect (especially at < $4k), but for me the SXRD is clearly the best choice. However if you want absolute color uniformity, any 3 chip set (LCD or LCOS) should not be your first choice. It's all personal preference. For me, the total experience at viewing distance is the most important thing.
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Old 06-01-2006, 06:34 PM
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I just purchased a 60" SXRD and for me it is the best set I've ever owned. I had the original Samsung 50" DLP (2002 model) and saw terrible rainbows and then owned a Sony 60" GW-II which had real color uniformity issues. I never saw a sky with clouds without green in it on my GW-II. My SXRD has very slight color uniformity issues and a dust spot on one panel, but the overall experience is absolutely incredible. I'm very picky and was nervous about the "green blob", "blue corners", misconvergence, etc on the SXRD. I went to all the stores stocking the SXRD in St. Louis and of 8 total sets (6 60", 2 50") only one had noticeable green issues on the right side during normal viewing. You'll see more on gray scales, but the overall picture was beautiful on 7 out of 8 sets.

No set is perfect (especially at < $4k), but for me the SXRD is clearly the best choice. However if you want absolute color uniformity, any 3 chip set (LCD or LCOS) should not be your first choice. It's all personal preference. For me, the total experience at viewing distance is the most important thing.

My Advice: Watch the set in "pro" mode, "warm" setting, in COMPLETE darkness, put on an anamorphic B&W DVD and report back!

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Old 06-01-2006, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by audiomixer View Post

My Advice: Watch the set in "pro" mode, "warm" setting, in COMPLETE darkness, put on an anamorphic B&W DVD and report back!

Why do you watch movies in total darkness?
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Old 06-01-2006, 09:46 PM
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I almost bought one this weekend after seeing a demo unit at Frye's Electronics. I came back and did some research and then went shopping to check prices and to spend some more time looking at the picture quality.

I went to BestBuy next and noticed no "green blobs", but I did see darkness in all four corners of the screen that was sort of bluish-purple--on movie material, it was a little noticeable but not distracting, but when commercials would come on or if there was a solid colored screen (like a white screen with some graphics in the middle), the discoloration was very visible. Not good.

So then I went to CircuitCity and the corners looked fine but there were two "green blobs" that were very noticeable to the point that they discolored other dark colors on their HD channel demos. When the screen went to an all white background, I could clearly see the outline of one green blob the size of a small pizza in the upper right side of the screen and a smaller green blob in the lower middle of the screen.

Then I went back to Frye's and could find absolutely no flaws in the picture. No discoloration in the corners and no green blobs. So then I freaked out because 2 out of the 3 sets I looked at had problems and I decided not to buy one. I have seen a few references here about how they may have fixed the problems after a certain manufacturing date, but I think I'm going to wait just buy myself one of the new 2006 models for Christmas.

I found this article today on the new 2006 specs....

http://www.dvformat.com/articles/vie...e.jsp?id=44996
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Old 06-01-2006, 09:56 PM
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I saw the green blob after watching Ghostbusters.
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Old 06-01-2006, 10:03 PM
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I deliver and set up tv's for Magnolia A/V and have to say the reported fix after a manu date isnt so. I have seen the green blob many times in the past and currently. It does for the most part reduce or completely go away after up 10 30 minutes. Some people claim to still see it but to my mind they are projecting a memory of it from memory. If you dont mind a little warm up time they are fantastic tv's with 1 little flaw.
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Old 06-01-2006, 10:50 PM
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Why do you watch movies in total darkness?

Because it is like "going-to-the-movies"?

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Old 06-01-2006, 10:58 PM
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That "insightful" poll is about as valid as this one:

Do you still beat your wife?

A. Yes

B. No
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