Best 2006 1080p ~60" TV for Console Video Games (SXRD and HL-S Game Modes Discussed) - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 413 Old 07-05-2006, 06:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vincent_momo View Post

if xbr1 s native resolution is 1080p does this mean that it will be able to recieve 1080p broadcasts whenever they release them? how come the tv cant do 1080p for games then?

This is NO 1080p HDMI input on a 2005 XBR1 SXRD. The XBR1 is still a great TV, but a 1080p signal would need to be interlaced by an external source, passed though HDMI, and then de-interlaced by the XBR1 SXRD for the best results. For still scenes, this would look fine. For motion scenes, this extra processing would likely introduce a few artifacts (though most people probably wouldn't notice them).

This same analysis applies to both game and non-game signals.

My A2000 Settings for the S3 TiVo, PS3, Xbox 360, and Nintendo Wii.
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post #92 of 413 Old 07-05-2006, 07:51 PM
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so with all this talk of DRC-MF v1 being in the A2000 series, will this affect lag in anyway? I would think that it would eliminate lag, since less processing will be going on (well at least for 1080i signals.)
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post #93 of 413 Old 07-06-2006, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psincubus View Post

so with all this talk of DRC-MF v1 being in the A2000 series, will this affect lag in anyway? I would think that it would eliminate lag, since less processing will be going on (well at least for 1080i signals.)

the a2000 game mode will work on 480i and 1080i signals, according to the service manual that someone posted in the sxrd thread
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post #94 of 413 Old 07-06-2006, 09:14 AM
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which one is the better though? The sony or the samsung?
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post #95 of 413 Old 07-06-2006, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psincubus View Post

so with all this talk of DRC-MF v1 being in the A2000 series, will this affect lag in anyway? I would think that it would eliminate lag, since less processing will be going on (well at least for 1080i signals.)

If you want to minimize lag then I think DRC doesn't matter, you'll just have it disabled.

If, with it enabled (so you get a better picture), v1 is faster than v2 (or v2.5), who knows. People are saying that v1 was only for 480i -> 720p (for 720p native sets), so we don't know what the A2000 series will do with 1080i stuff if it's really got DRC v1.

I haven't been thinking of using DRC for games, personally. I want things as responsive as can be, and from the reports here it sounds like with progressive mode stuff, or interlaced stuff in game mode, we've basically got a 2.5 ms response time display. Sounds sweet
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post #96 of 413 Old 07-06-2006, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Covak View Post

If you want to minimize lag then I think DRC doesn't matter, you'll just have it disabled.

If, with it enabled (so you get a better picture), v1 is faster than v2 (or v2.5), who knows. People are saying that v1 was only for 480i -> 720p (for 720p native sets), so we don't know what the A2000 series will do with 1080i stuff if it's really got DRC v1.

I haven't been thinking of using DRC for games, personally. I want things as responsive as can be, and from the reports here it sounds like with progressive mode stuff, or interlaced stuff in game mode, we've basically got a 2.5 ms response time display. Sounds sweet

doesn't game mode disable the DRC mode ?
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post #97 of 413 Old 07-10-2006, 07:42 AM
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I'll ask, point blank, a question that seems to be alluded to in this thread with varying responses:

Will someone with an hl-sxx87/88s please let us know how online play (xbox live) has been for them and if they notice any lag?

I know there are different variables that could effect the experience, but I just want to hear from people who have actually played online.

I'm not worried about offline play because the consensus appears to be that in game mode or especially through the VGA cables for the 360, there is no lag.

Thank you for your time.
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post #98 of 413 Old 07-10-2006, 01:57 PM
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I've noticed the SXRD's I've seen in stores look noticeably darker than other TVs, especially LCD's. I notice this with rear-projections sets in general - it's like you're watching TV with sungalsses on. I think games would look better on a brighter LCD. Any opinions and will the 180W bulb in the new SXRD's make much difference?
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post #99 of 413 Old 07-11-2006, 08:12 PM
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Great Thread, allow me to muddy the waters...

Much like the OP, this concerns me, I am going to be doing alot of DDR on my next set and I was hoping someone could post anything they know about the following...

JVC - HD61G887
Toshiba - 621HMX95

Both are 1080i sets, no idea about any special game mode. I would like to know if I should really consider another set and/or 1080p capability. I want an SXRD, but it's out of range. I like the above 2 sets best from the side by sides I have seen in stores, both makers offer similar 1080p models.

I will be running all the consoles though a pelican switch box (GC, PS2, Xbox, 360, Wii, maybe a PS3) using component cables.

From reading the thread it seems only the Sammy's and Sony's offer a game mode, since gaming and DVD's are the primary use for this PC should I be reconsidering the above.

As usual, thank you all.

*edt* thought of some other things...

I don't see Rainbows, for gaming am I going to get any benefit out of LcOS vs. DLP?
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post #100 of 413 Old 07-11-2006, 08:24 PM
 
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GRX, if an SXRD looked dark to you, then you were seeing one w/ a terrible signal or that was not calibrated at all. When people come to my house, the almost always comment on how bright the picture is. With that being said, you can certainly find a brighter TV (or at least one w/ a brighter blaze mode) then the SXRD.
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post #101 of 413 Old 07-11-2006, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckFly View Post

I'll ask, point blank, a question that seems to be alluded to in this thread with varying responses:

Will someone with an hl-sxx87/88s please let us know how online play (xbox live) has been for them and if they notice any lag?

I know there are different variables that could effect the experience, but I just want to hear from people who have actually played online.

I'm not worried about offline play because the consensus appears to be that in game mode or especially through the VGA cables for the 360, there is no lag.

Thank you for your time.

I haven't played on live yet, but I have had a few small lan parties the last couple of weeks. We play GRAW. My X360 is run through component. I have the HLS6187w set on game mode. I have yet to notice any lag. The set seems lag free. If there is no lag in offline gaming then the only lag during online would be from your connection to live.

The Samsung has an awsome picture. Too bad it gives me headaches. The SXRD is scheduled for delivery on Thursday. I hope I get a good one.
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post #102 of 413 Old 07-18-2006, 08:51 PM
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how come the samsung gives you headaches? sitting too close?
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post #103 of 413 Old 07-18-2006, 10:06 PM
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I have the the Samsung 6187 and I dont \\have the game mode on, and I still dont notice any lag on the 360.
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post #104 of 413 Old 07-19-2006, 01:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vincent_momo View Post

how come the samsung gives you headaches? sitting too close?

I would imagine rainbows.
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post #105 of 413 Old 07-19-2006, 03:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVBill View Post

To my knowledge the Mits 731 series does not have a Game Mode (pbmpharmacist mentioned he couldn't find one in his Mits 731 thread). Sony and Sammy do. I'd be hard pressed to recommend a DLP that doesn't have a Game Mode (too much risk of lag, and no clear proof that Mits acknowledges this problem). I suspect the Mitz (with extra features turned off) might be fine for 1080p inputs. However, I am much less sure for 480i, 480p, and 1080i. The PS3 likely would be fine, but I'm less sure about the Xbox 360 and the Nintendo Wii.

If you have any evidence that the Mits is low on lag in all potential gaming scenarios (480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, and 1080p), please do share.

The new Mits have a DVI-I input which accepts both analog RGB and digital DVI PC level signals with 1:1 pixel mapping. Most delay signal processing circuitry is bypassed from what I hear. I will probably buy the 732 and report on it when it becomes available. I plan to connect my high end PC with ATI X1900XTX video card set to 1920*1080@60fps and play Oblivion and then take pictures to illustrate why 1:1 pixel mapping is superior.
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post #106 of 413 Old 07-19-2006, 05:33 AM
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I am comparing the A2000 SXRD to the Mits WD65731. Why is the game mode so important? The samsung is still 10 bit while the mits is 12bit. does that help? (I really have no idea)

I trust my eyes and think that both of them are the best on the market. (besides plasma)(comparing the XBR1 to the Mits, assuming the A2000 will look as good or better)

What's your choice today?
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post #107 of 413 Old 07-19-2006, 07:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reincarnate View Post

The new Mits have a DVI-I input which accepts both analog RGB and digital DVI PC level signals with 1:1 pixel mapping. Most delay signal processing circuitry is bypassed from what I hear. I will probably buy the 732 and report on it when it becomes available. I plan to connect my high end PC with ATI X1900XTX video card set to 1920*1080@60fps and play Oblivion and then take pictures to illustrate why 1:1 pixel mapping is superior.

That would be very helpful.

What new rear projection displays do 1:1 pixel mapping other than Mits (Sony, JVC, Samsung)?

My A2000 Settings for the S3 TiVo, PS3, Xbox 360, and Nintendo Wii.
My A2000 Lag Test & A2000 Lag Timing Estimations.
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post #108 of 413 Old 07-19-2006, 07:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by preludejtstyle View Post

I am comparing the A2000 SXRD to the Mits WD65731. Why is the game mode so important? The samsung is still 10 bit while the mits is 12bit. does that help? (I really have no idea)

I trust my eyes and think that both of them are the best on the market. (besides plasma)(comparing the XBR1 to the Mits, assuming the A2000 will look as good or better)

I don't think that color depth (10bit vs 12bit) plays much of a role in scaler/deinterlacing lag.

My A2000 Settings for the S3 TiVo, PS3, Xbox 360, and Nintendo Wii.
My A2000 Lag Test & A2000 Lag Timing Estimations.
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post #109 of 413 Old 07-19-2006, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordrach View Post

Bingo!

That said, has anyone played World of Warcraft with this setup? How does it look? Any issues with the scrolling text?


OMG someone answer this question! I myself am an avid World of Warcraft player, and I salivate at the prospect of playing it on an SXRD. Since the R1 model is the only one out at 50 as of today, I'm really concerned it might not perform as well. I run the game at 1920x1080 on my PC.
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post #110 of 413 Old 07-20-2006, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RassilonZero View Post

How about some older game systems?
I dont care about ps3/xbox360. I want my Neo-Geo to look as good as possible. And NES, SNES, Genesis, Turbo-duo, etc. But Neo-geo is my top priority (i dont have room in my apartment for an arcade cabinet, so the TVs gotta do it all).

I'd like to know about this too. There probably aren't many people like us that still use these old school consoles, but I'd really be interested to hear from somebody that does regarding PQ and lag.

Read. Think. Post. In that order, preferably

"If the Playstation and Xbox are like the Bloods and the Crips, then the Wii is whatever gang Sha Na Na was in" - Christian Finnegan
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post #111 of 413 Old 07-20-2006, 05:58 PM
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Good wholesome gaming thread Mr. AVBill

Stepping back a bit from the bleeding edge, I suppose many of you would have valuable knowledge on 720p sets in the same line of questioning. Lag, game modes, PQ, and reliablity.

Being a smaller budgeted gamer, I have started to look at 720p sets for use with gaming.

Owning a 360 and an original xbox.
I started my search with the Sony 3LCD tvs, namely the kdfe50a10 and the newer e2000. Also looking at the JVC HD527BP7 DILA.

I am hoping there are members with prior experience on these sets that would give me a good start on my learning and shopping.


Thanks in advance.

The more questions you have the more knowledge you will recieve.
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post #112 of 413 Old 07-21-2006, 08:40 AM
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Hey guys, I ijust got my HLS5087 and i noticed that when using game mode, things look very fuzzy (using older systems). I noticed no difference when using it on my 360, but when I played my ps2 and my dreamcast and used game mode, the games looked very fuzzy. But with game mode off, they look perfect. Anyone else notice this?
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post #113 of 413 Old 07-21-2006, 09:46 AM - Thread Starter
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An interesting thing I noticed yesterday. I saw the SXRD 60" XBR1 sitting right next to a 2005 720p JVC at my local BestBuy. The employee there claimed they were both being fed the same 720p signal. I would have expected the JVC to have measurably less lag because 720p is the sets native resolution. However, I was surprised that it was noticeable to me that the JVC updated the screen a few frames earlier than the SXRD. When ever the scene would switch, the JVC screen switched first and the SXRD screen would then catch up (maybe a rough estimate of 30-40 milliseconds later). I turned off all the processing I could on the SXRD, and the untouched JVC was still faster at 720p.

This doesn't prove that the SXRD is unplayable, but to me it shows that the SXRD does have more lag than a 720p JVC (at least at 720p). I'm wondering how the SXRD would compare to a JVC 1080p set.

Soundboy, in the Mits 73X thread, stated that he believes that "you'll notice the Mitsubishi syncs up better and faster than Samsung and Sony" when looking at a Best Buy feed.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post8014320

I wish I could of these sets side-by-side to confirm this. My interest is rising in the Mits 57732, but it hasn't completely left the SXRD yet.

My A2000 Settings for the S3 TiVo, PS3, Xbox 360, and Nintendo Wii.
My A2000 Lag Test & A2000 Lag Timing Estimations.
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post #114 of 413 Old 07-21-2006, 10:49 AM
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I have a Samsung HL-S6187W. With my Xbox360 I do Not use game mode on component, and have not noticed any lag. My PS2 and xbox are going through the other component input and I only use game mode sometimes for them. From what I understand, the lag comes from the scaling and de-interlacing processing time that the TV has to do. So if you are inputting your games at and HD resolution or even 480P, you will probably not need a game mode. I have tested serveral games on my PS2 and Xbox, and it was only the games that only support 480i that I really noticed any lag.

On a side note, one of my favorite games is Guitar Hero on PS2. It has to run in 480i since it doesn't support 480p. There is a slightly noticeable lag without game mode turnded on. However, both my roommate and I prefer playing with the lag.

It all comes down to personal preferance. But I would definately say that game mode is NOT necessary on the XBox360.
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post #115 of 413 Old 07-21-2006, 10:53 AM
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I own a Samsung HL-S6187 and put it through some PS2 games last night, online and off. Games I thought would lag, but they didn't. Even with Game Mode OFF.

Madden 2005 defaulted to widescreen and played like a dream online.

Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit 2 defaulted to widescreen (perhaps it auto-zoomed in a fake 16:9?) and ran perfectly.

Tekken 5 gave me no lag in either interlaced or progressive mode. The throw-back Tekken 3 on the same disc, which obviously isn't progressive, was also responsive as can be.

Finally, I pulled out that Gottlieb pinball collection and it too defaulted to widescreen and reacted promptly to inputs.

Only game I've gotten to lag so far is Guitar Hero, but once you turn on Game Mode, it plays like usual.

Conclusion: The new Samsung DLPs are great for playing games.
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post #116 of 413 Old 07-21-2006, 11:58 AM
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I dont know how much this will apply to the 1080p sets, but i compared the sony 50" A10 3LCD and the samsung HLS 5086 DLP 720p sets side by side in circuit city the other weekend so heres my 2 yen:
I brought my Neo-geo, Sega Genesis and PS2 in to test. I played Samurai Shodown 5 special on the neo-geo; sonic, revenge of shinobi and star control on the genesis; virtua fighter 4: evolution and shadow hearts (an RPG that has a hit wheel in combat that requires good timing) on the ps2.
I connected the neo-geo with component and s-video and composite (its modified), the genesis with composite, and the ps2 with component and s-video.

The sony looked the best with the older systems, by a huge margin. Even with game mode off on the samsung, and on for the sony, the sony looked much better.

The samsung had noticeable lag with game mode turned off, and looked TERRIBLE with game mode on. the colors were bad, it was blocky/blurry and the picture was jittery.
It wasnt as bad with the PS2, but not as nice as the sony.

The sony had little to no lag even with game mode off, and still looks just as good with the game mode on.

conclusion from my test: the samsung DLPs are awful for gaming if you play anything older than PS2.
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post #117 of 413 Old 07-21-2006, 12:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RassilonZero View Post

I dont know how much this will apply to the 1080p sets, but i compared the sony 50" A10 3LCD and the samsung HLS 5086 DLP 720p sets side by side in circuit city the other weekend so heres my 2 yen:
I brought my Neo-geo, Sega Genesis and PS2 in to test. I played Samurai Shodown 5 special on the neo-geo; sonic, revenge of shinobi and star control on the genesis; virtua fighter 4: evolution and shadow hearts (an RPG that has a hit wheel in combat that requires good timing) on the ps2.
I connected the neo-geo with component and s-video and composite (its modified), the genesis with composite, and the ps2 with component and s-video.

The sony looked the best with the older systems, by a huge margin. Even with game mode off on the samsung, and on for the sony, the sony looked much better.

The samsung had noticeable lag with game mode turned off, and looked TERRIBLE with game mode on. the colors were bad, it was blocky/blurry and the picture was jittery.
It wasnt as bad with the PS2, but not as nice as the sony.

The sony had little to no lag even with game mode off, and still looks just as good with the game mode on.

conclusion from my test: the samsung DLPs are awful for gaming if you play anything older than PS2.


Thanks for your feedback. As much as I love the Sammy's styling, it has been slipping lower and lower on my list as of late. I thoroughly believe umr (a professional calibrator in these forums) that the Sammy shines with calibration, but no matter what user set able settings I use (with the instore feeds and even BluRay) I just can't get it to look as nice (for my eyes) as the SXRD with similar material. It is definitely brighter than the SXRD, but that's the most positive difference I notice about it (other than the nice thin cabinet). For those who love your Sammy, more power to you. I'm sure it is great in its own way. There is no single HDTV that is for everyone. It sounds like it is a decent gamer TV in its own right.

Now I just want to see the Mitsubishi 57731 (for a clue at the quality of the upcoming 57732 and 57831). JVC still sounds interesting, but there is a serious lack of information on the JVC sets in my area (I'm not sure stores will stock the 1080p JVC around me). Over in the official a2000 owners thread, Mr. Foo has promised to test out the a2000's deinterlacing of 1080i using fade23's HD-DVD iso image.

My A2000 Settings for the S3 TiVo, PS3, Xbox 360, and Nintendo Wii.
My A2000 Lag Test & A2000 Lag Timing Estimations.
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post #118 of 413 Old 07-21-2006, 12:36 PM
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Finally had a chance to go through a few things on my Toshiba 56MX195 - As far as I can tell, no lag on anything. In case anyone is looking into a Toshiba I thought I would post my thoughts. I avoided the Samsungs entirely while shopping due to this and similar threads, discarded the Sony due to price (loved it in the shop though) and took my 360 in for a showdown between this, the JVC 1080p models, and a few Mitsis.

For what it is worth, in the store I didn't notice any lag with the 360 (component in) any any of the 3 models I looked at. The Toshiba got purchased due to it's brighter picture, smoother display (compared imho to the mits) and a slight price advantage. The mits was too dark, but the JVC vs. Toshiba was a tough decision.

I have run a PS2 via component through a pelican switch box and tried DDR Extreme and Guitar Hero and did not notice any significant lag at all. It may be there, but it is miniscule at best. I actually pulled a better score on a few songs (on medium difficulty, and without having played in several months).

For the 360 I have run it through component into the pelican, component direct into the TV, and VGA direct into the TV. Played Geometry Wars, DOA 4, CoD2, and Burnout Revenge. GW and DOA4 are the 2 I would suspect lag on, and apart from just looking stunning, I didn't notice any serious issues.

If anyone has any advice on how to measure something like this let me know and I will see if I can detect any lag, but so far I am happy.
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post #119 of 413 Old 07-21-2006, 01:38 PM
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I'm sorry that this is a bit off topic, but I have been considering the sony and samsung 1080p models and am also very interested in gaming performance. I have read elsewhere that some of the older samsung 1080p models are not truly 1080p. They use a method of downgrading the signal and doubling the lines with some sort of wobble chip. Are the new samsung and sony models now true 1080p?
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post #120 of 413 Old 07-21-2006, 01:57 PM
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Will PS3 games be in 1080p or is it only the Blu-Ray movies on the PS3 that will be in 1080p?
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