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post #361 of 3326 Old 08-14-2006, 08:12 AM
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I just picked up one of these sets (50E2000) on Friday. It has perfect geometry and no dead/stuck pixels. The picture quality is so much better than the toshiba 50h82 rpcrt set it replaced. HD looks amazing, DVDs via my panasonic xp30 look outstanding. Im very impressed with the black levels on this set as well.
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post #362 of 3326 Old 08-14-2006, 10:29 AM
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I had been shopping for a couple of weeks and had narrowed my decision down to the Sony KDF-46E2000 and Samsung HL-S4666W. After seeing these on display at the the local retailers, I thought the Sony had the slightly better picture and audio while the Samsung had a cable card slot was slightly less expensive (~$100 or so).

The Good
Well I was in my local Circuit City on Saturday talking with a salesman and I just mentioned the best internet pricing and whoa!!! they knocked $400 off the price of the Sony and were willing to give me the set me for $1299. I feel like I "stole" the TV for $1405 (including Tax).

The Bad
I get my TV service through E* and presently have a DVR receiver (522). I hooked up the TV via S-VHS to the 522 and have to say I am quite disappointed with SDTV quality on this set. I sit 10~12' away and the picture is definately not sharp/crisp as my 32" Sony CRT. In fact, it's a lot worse. a lot of blockiness and I do notice a little screen door effect. Some stations/programs are better than others (I believe the 522 output is 480i and E* varies the bitrate for each station). I also had my upsampling DVD player hooked up via HDMI. The picture was MUCH better, almost as good as the HD content demonstrated at the store but like the TV signal... some DVDs are better than others.

I will be upgrading to an E* vip622 HD DVR and connecting via HDMI. I've no doubt that the HD content will be excellent but since 75% of what I watch will be SD, I am a little uneasy... If the 622 is as bad as the 522, I may just put this HD thing off another year. Why should I spend $$$ for lower quality on 75% of what I watch. I really hope there is a right combination of HW and settings for SD programming that works.

The Ugly
I actually think my set is defective/not calibrated correctly. There is too much of a green overcast to everything. Skintones have too much green in them. With green skin/purple lips, everyone looks like they're ill/ready to throw up. I'm going to play with the display settings some more tonight but this set might be headed back if I'm not able to correct this. Does anyone here know how to access the service menu + calibrate?

Nothing is easy...
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post #363 of 3326 Old 08-14-2006, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eelhc View Post

The Ugly
I actually think my set is defective/not calibrated correctly. There is too much of a green overcast to everything. Skintones have too much green in them. With green skin/purple lips, everyone looks like they're ill/ready to throw up. I'm going to play with the display settings some more tonight but this set might be headed back if I'm not able to correct this. Does anyone here know how to access the service menu + calibrate?
Nothing is easy...

I have this same greenish problem. I tried every setting in the display menus to no avail. I have accessed the service menu and reduced the GGAN setting and slightly boosted the RGAN. The result is much better, but I am still calibrating.
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post #364 of 3326 Old 08-14-2006, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by ihatepincushion View Post

I have this same greenish problem. I tried every setting in the display menus to no avail. I have accessed the service menu and reduced the GGAN setting and slightly boosted the RGAN. The result is much better, but I am still calibrating.

How does one access the service menu and do this? I am borrowing the Digital Video Essentials Calibration DVD from a friend.

If I can eliminate the green bias I'll probably keep the TV. If not... no way I'm looking at Martians for the next 15 years... the TV goes back.

I have been readig up and it seems that the SD PQ from the E* vip622 DVR receiver may/may not be an improvement from the 522 that I have. The 622 upsamples the 480i to 720p and some folks feel that it does not does such a good job while others think it's the best PQ for SD they've seen.
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post #365 of 3326 Old 08-14-2006, 04:22 PM
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I would think that stretching the lower number of pixels present in an SD signal to a TV this big would HAVE to look worse than the same signal viewed on a 32", unless you had some intermediary device to upconvert the signal as you described, in which case the quality would depend on the quality of that device's algorithm. Am I totally off-base here?

_pete
- pretty happy with the SD PQ, especially with digital signals.

======
The Bad
I get my TV service through E* and presently have a DVR receiver (522). I hooked up the TV via S-VHS to the 522 and have to say I am quite disappointed with SDTV quality on this set. I sit 10~12' away and the picture is definately not sharp/crisp as my 32" Sony CRT. In fact, it's a lot worse. a lot of blockiness and I do notice a little screen door effect. Some stations/programs are better than others (I believe the 522 output is 480i and E* varies the bitrate for each station). I also had my upsampling DVD player hooked up via HDMI. The picture was MUCH better, almost as good as the HD content demonstrated at the store but like the TV signal... some DVDs are better than others.
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post #366 of 3326 Old 08-14-2006, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dahlheim View Post

I would think that stretching the lower number of pixels present in an SD signal to a TV this big would HAVE to look worse than the same signal viewed on a 32", unless you had some intermediary device to upconvert the signal as you described, in which case the quality would depend on the quality of that device's algorithm. Am I totally off-base here?

Yes and no... My DVD player is SD (480p) which looks fine on the TV.. better than on my old 32" CRT so I know that at least 480p SD can look good. The E* 522 DVR I presently have outputs 480i. Both these signals upsampled by the Sony. The 480i from my 522 looks MUCH worse than the DVD player.

There's also some talk that the digital cable/satellite providers use aggressive digital compression to squeeze more programming into the limited bandwidth so what we are left with is actually worse than broadcast quality 480i.

E*'s new HD DVR receiver (the 622) performs the upconverting (makes 720p or 1080i out of 480i SD) internally. I'm just wondering if the quality of this output is better than the 522 which for now is quite disappointing.
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post #367 of 3326 Old 08-14-2006, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eelhc View Post

How does one access the service menu and do this? I am borrowing the Digital Video Essentials Calibration DVD from a friend.

If I can eliminate the green bias I'll probably keep the TV. If not... no way I'm looking at Martians for the next 15 years... the TV goes back.

.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6258295

This thread describes how to enter the service menu. Once there, navigate using 5 and go to PAWN PIC, then use 1 and find RGAN, GGAN, and BGAN. I reduced GGAN to 102 and boosted RGAN to 130. Helps, but not ideal. My defaults for gain were all 128.

I haven't altered the RBIS, GBIS, and BBIS, which I assume are for bias. My defaults here are RBIS 6 GBIS 3 and BBIS 0. Please let me know if you can get rid of the greenish.
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post #368 of 3326 Old 08-14-2006, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by DrGregC View Post

So... I went to the Sony Style store in my area today to check out the new sets, both A2000 and E2000. Using the same signal, SD or HD, I could not see the large differences that I expected between the A200 and E2000 sets. It was not until we ran the BluRay demo, full 1080p, on the A2000 that I could see what the fuss was about.

What I'm saying is that I was very surprised to see what a great picture the 55" E2000 set produced. At my seating distance, about 10 feet, SDE should not be an issue. Both sets show a little SSE.

Bottom line: The 55" A2000 costs $1000 more than the 55" E2000. I am a pretty discriminating viewer but couldn't see $1000 difference. Since I've been spending my free time with the SXRD crowd -- green blobs & all their other concerns -- I need some E2000 owners to tell me why they opted for the E2000 and its "old technology." 720p on an LCD RPTV looked pretty good to me. Am I missing something?

I'm in the same boat, want a 55" A2000 but am having trouble justifying the the extra $900 @ street price.

Here is what I think the advantages of the A2000 are:
1. Brighter picture - uses higher wattage bulb.
2. Less SSE - It looks to me like the 1080p sets use a different type of screen that has less SSE, I'd like to know if this is true or just my imagination.
3. 1080p
4. Higher contrast - blacks seem deeper to me.

But I came to the same conclusion. At the viewing distance I'll have at home ( 12' - 13' )I could only see an improvement in pic. quality on the A2000 with the Sony demo (from a hard drive) & BluRay. On SD or broadcast HD (which is 720P or 1080i), I can't say the picture on the A2000 looked much different than the E2000 other than being brighter and deeper blacks.

I'm starting to think it's foolish to spend the extra $$ for the latest 1080p stuff because no matter what I buy, it's going to be obsolete inbetween the time I buy it and get it home. I also plan on sitting on the sidelines until the winner emerges from the BluRay vs HD-DVD battle so I won't have any real 1080p source material for a while.

I'm thinking get an E2000 720P set now and save my $$ to get a >50" LCD flat panel in a few years when their prices come way down.
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post #369 of 3326 Old 08-14-2006, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ihatepincushion View Post

This thread describes how to enter the service menu. Once there, navigate using 5 and go to PAWN PIC, then use 1 and find RGAN, GGAN, and BGAN. I reduced GGAN to 102 and boosted RGAN to 130. Helps, but not ideal. My defaults for gain were all 128.

I haven't altered the RBIS, GBIS, and BBIS, which I assume are for bias. My defaults here are RBIS 6 GBIS 3 and BBIS 0. Please let me know if you can get rid of the greenish.

Thanks! I went ahead and did this and my factory settings are:

RGAN 133
GGAN 132
BGAN 128

Hey! It looks like they actually did something, otherwise yours and mine would be different. I can't help but think that their factory calibration is all out of wack! TO double check I asked my wife and she agreed that people are green. What a letdown... I could poke around in the service menu but first I'm going to call Sony and see what they suggest.

The date code on my TV is July 2006 so it's pretty recent. Too bad... Sony QC used to be MUCH better (and today Dell is recalling 4.1 Million exploding batteries built by Sony). Maybe I should have bought the extended warrantee.
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post #370 of 3326 Old 08-14-2006, 10:21 PM
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Ok, I finally purchased the 50E2000 a day ago and noticed that when I am watching tv or a dvd, the picture slightly bows out a the bottom, starting around the middle of the screen. The difference between the top of the picture and the bottom is just over 1/4 of an inch. What I am wondering is if that is something that is normal, or should I exchange it? I probably am going to take it back because of this as well as another screen issue, but don't want to end up with something worse.

Thoughts?
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post #371 of 3326 Old 08-15-2006, 12:57 AM
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I have been reading most of these post's. Is everybody saying more or less that the KDF -50E2000 is much more trouble then it's worth?
I am getting a 2 month old 50A10 replace in the next few days and was thinking of getting the E2000 , but now I'm not sure WHAT to get.

May the Force be with you.
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post #372 of 3326 Old 08-15-2006, 05:56 AM
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I don't think it is a lot of trouble, I think that some of us, myself included, want perfection. My problem may be due to the fact that the person who loaded it on my truck came out with the tv on its side and the box was creased right where the screen is. I did not think much of it at the time, but I realize now that that action may have caused my problem. I don't blame Sony, but rather the carrier and the store staff.
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post #373 of 3326 Old 08-15-2006, 07:58 AM
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HOLY #$@%! Return that thing!

To the original poster regarding this question: These forums can be a wealth of information, but you'll drive yourself crazy if you use them as a means to find problems with sets you are interested in, especially if the set is a new release. I can't say I'm as much a videophile as some on these forums, but I have been nothing but pleased with this set's picture quality and performance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by egdave View Post

I don't think it is a lot of trouble, I think that some of us, myself included, want perfection. My problem may be due to the fact that the person who loaded it on my truck came out with the tv on its side and the box was creased right where the screen is. I did not think much of it at the time, but I realize now that that action may have caused my problem. I don't blame Sony, but rather the carrier and the store staff.

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post #374 of 3326 Old 08-15-2006, 10:16 AM
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I am pretty sure this is the tv that I will be purchasing, just waiting on best buy or circuit city to do another 2 or 3 year no intrest finiancing option again. I would imagine it will be soon with football just right around the corner.

I am probably right around 7-8 feet away from my tv stand. I am just not sure if I should go with the 46 inch or pay the couple hundred extra for the 50 inch. All these people talking about the sse and sde in this thread has me reconsidering what size I should get.
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post #375 of 3326 Old 08-15-2006, 12:37 PM
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Does anyone have a PC hooked up to the E2000? If so, what resolution is your PC set to? When I have mine connected, it will not fit to the width of the tv. If I change the resolution, it streches it too much.

Ideas anyone?
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post #376 of 3326 Old 08-15-2006, 01:00 PM
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For anyone with the 55E2000 on the matching Sony stand (SU-RG12L) what is the total height?
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post #377 of 3326 Old 08-15-2006, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by rizzy View Post

I am pretty sure this is the tv that I will be purchasing, just waiting on best buy or circuit city to do another 2 or 3 year no intrest finiancing option again. I would imagine it will be soon with football just right around the corner.

I am probably right around 7-8 feet away from my tv stand. I am just not sure if I should go with the 46 inch or pay the couple hundred extra for the 50 inch. All these people talking about the sse and sde in this thread has me reconsidering what size I should get.

Im 7.5 ft from my 50E2000 and dont really notice SSE/SDE. If i try to look for it i can see it, but after 3 days of owning the set i dont see it, just enjoy the great picture this set puts out
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post #378 of 3326 Old 08-15-2006, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by jamesgf View Post

Im 7.5 ft from my 50E2000 and dont really notice SSE/SDE. If i try to look for it i can see it, but after 3 days of owning the set i dont see it, just enjoy the great picture this set puts out

I don't noticed it either, but I have been sitting in from of LCD monitors for years and may be immune to the SDE.
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post #379 of 3326 Old 08-15-2006, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by jamesgf View Post

Im 7.5 ft from my 50E2000 and dont really notice SSE/SDE. If i try to look for it i can see it, but after 3 days of owning the set i dont see it, just enjoy the great picture this set puts out

If I don't notice any of this in the store, is it safe to say that I won't have any issues with it at home?
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post #380 of 3326 Old 08-15-2006, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by rizzy View Post

If I don't notice any of this in the store, is it safe to say that I won't have any issues with it at home?

I saw it more in the store than at home. The stores (CCity) dont do these sets justice. Once you get it home and tweak the settings, the PQ is amazing. This set is miles above the toshiba 50H82 it replaced.
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post #381 of 3326 Old 08-15-2006, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by egdave View Post

Does anyone have a PC hooked up to the E2000? If so, what resolution is your PC set to? When I have mine connected, it will not fit to the width of the tv. If I change the resolution, it streches it too much.

Ideas anyone?


I have an Nvidia 6600gt hooked up dvi->hdmi

I just chose 720p, and used their overscan adjustment to bring it down a little.

I think the set resolution was 1216x680. Give or take a few px.
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post #382 of 3326 Old 08-15-2006, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p.tirebiter View Post

For anyone with the 55E2000 on the matching Sony stand (SU-RG12L) what is the total height?


Mine is 54" high
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post #383 of 3326 Old 08-15-2006, 06:17 PM
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For anyone who has one of the new E2000s, how long is the warm up time?
That is from when you turn it on until you have a picture.

What about fan noise?
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post #384 of 3326 Old 08-15-2006, 06:18 PM
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So I just got the set home today. It looks amazing. I calibrated with avia and tweaked it a little and I love it. No green no dead pixels and no geometry issues. One big problem though. The stand we have is too low for my wife. We just bought the stand so I need to think of a way to raise it like 4" or so. Any thoughts?

Xbox 360 gamertag: Cdub998
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post #385 of 3326 Old 08-15-2006, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 351CJ View Post

For anyone who has one of the new E2000s, how long is the warm up time?
That is from when you turn it on until you have a picture.

What about fan noise?

Mine takes a couple of minutes to reach full brightness (turn it on, grab something to eat/drink and its warmed up) and the fan is very quiet. I only notice it if im right next to the tv. I sit 7.5 ft from it, I can just barely hear the fan when the set is muted.
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post #386 of 3326 Old 08-15-2006, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by egdave View Post

Ok, I finally purchased the 50E2000 a day ago and noticed that when I am watching tv or a dvd, the picture slightly bows out a the bottom, starting around the middle of the screen. The difference between the top of the picture and the bottom is just over 1/4 of an inch. What I am wondering is if that is something that is normal, or should I exchange it? I probably am going to take it back because of this as well as another screen issue, but don't want to end up with something worse.

Thoughts?

Just got my third 46e2000 yesterday, and it has the same problem with the picture as yours. Which was the same on my first one. The second, had something inside blocking the screen, kind of looked like a rubik's cube. Now, I'm going to go back for a fourth. I love the PQ/$, and for me, the lack of SSE and SDE. I know that we're not talking about thousands of dollars, but it cost more than I paid for my first car , so I'll keep trying to get it perfect.
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post #387 of 3326 Old 08-16-2006, 01:09 AM
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Originally Posted by 3l3phant! View Post

Just got my third 46e2000 yesterday, and it has the same problem with the picture as yours. Which was the same on my first one. The second, had something inside blocking the screen, kind of looked like a rubik's cube. Now, I'm going to go back for a fourth. I love the PQ/$, and for me, the lack of SSE and SDE. I know that we're not talking about thousands of dollars, but it cost more than I paid for my first car , so I'll keep trying to get it perfect.

The nightmare scenario. I've been trying to decide between a plasma or LCD and the RP sets, particularly this one, the 46E2000, and then I read this thread. Time after time people are having trouble. Then I got kicked to some thread elsewhere that I can't even find that discussed something called the "roadmap" probalem, complete with pictures of various sony 46e and 50e2000 sets with some kind of broken LCD projection that puts a roadmap-looking set of pixels on the screen and leaves it there.

And now, you're heading for your 4th 46e2000!

I think I'll just go back to the plasmas, or, better yet, stick with my three or four year old Sony 34xbr800.

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post #388 of 3326 Old 08-16-2006, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoppy View Post

The nightmare scenario. I've been trying to decide between a plasma or LCD and the RP sets, particularly this one, the 46E2000, and then I read this thread. Time after time people are having trouble. Then I got kicked to some thread elsewhere that I can't even find that discussed something called the "roadmap" probalem, complete with pictures of various sony 46e and 50e2000 sets with some kind of broken LCD projection that puts a roadmap-looking set of pixels on the screen and leaves it there.

And now, you're heading for your 4th 46e2000!

I think I'll just go back to the plasmas, or, better yet, stick with my three or four year old Sony 34xbr800.


I have been lurking these forums for some time now, but haven't posted much. I just picked up one of the 46 in. sets last night and all I can say is "Wow". I previously had my heart set on a flat panel lcd, but when I went to the showroom and was really looking at the displays, I really think that the rear projectors just seem to carry a much better, clearer picture than the flat panels (at least from what I have looked at with Sony lcd's). I am a bit biased to Sony because some years back when my panny hit the fan, I hemmed and hawed to try a new mark. The moment I brought that thing home and set it up (Sony Wega 27" tube) I couldn't believe my eyes. I had never noticed the dust particles in "Finding Nemo" before.

Taking into consideration that the footprint on these sets is still quite small (although you need a 4" (inch) rear clearance from the wall for the fan), but obviously not as nice as an lcd in that respect. So I dunno, for the price I honestly feel these sets are incredible. Using the HDMI, I popped in the Matrix (got half way through before I fell asleep) and I mean you could see the friggin hairs on Trinity's face for crying out loud. (actually as an aside, the picture can at times almost seem too perfect, to the degree that you lose some immersion in the media because the blending of the digital and real world effects in films seems to reveal itself a bit). I noticed no image distortion, the reviewers above could have gotten a bad lot of them or something (maybe a truck full of them got jostled too hard? *shrug* not questioning the reviewer, just thinking about how a bunch of sets would get messed up). Although, I have only had the set for less than a day, so hopefully I won't notice any wierdness.

But from my experience with Sony, it is hard to go wrong. I played around with the settings a bit, but need some time to really dig in. I'll hopefully follow up with my n00b review, hehe. One thing I really want to try, which I will post about when I do is hook up the dvi to hdmi input to my pc and give it a whirl. I didn't (obviously) buy the set for pc primarily, but would like to get additional functionality. Our main reason for the set is widescreen dvd's.
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post #389 of 3326 Old 08-16-2006, 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by cdub998 View Post

So I just got the set home today. It looks amazing. I calibrated with avia and tweaked it a little and I love it. No green no dead pixels and no geometry issues. One big problem though. The stand we have is too low for my wife. We just bought the stand so I need to think of a way to raise it like 4" or so. Any thoughts?


What kind of stand? If it is not a glass (or see through) you could always just build a small riser out of 2x4's stacked on their side and then cover it with plywood. Paint it flat black (or to match the surroundings) and just make the dimensions a little under the size of the stand. I am thinking along the lines of a 'floating' effect. You could probably even get away with two cube shapes vs. a rectangle.
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post #390 of 3326 Old 08-16-2006, 06:44 AM
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Mine takes a couple of minutes to reach full brightness (turn it on, grab something to eat/drink and its warmed up) and the fan is very quiet. I only notice it if im right next to the tv. I sit 7.5 ft from it, I can just barely hear the fan when the set is muted.


Yar, ditto. It seems to really whirl when you first turn it on. At first I was like "oh no...", but then it drops in rpm when the set gets up and running.
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