2007 Mitsubishi WD-XX73X and XX831 Owner's Thread - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 9416 Old 06-21-2006, 07:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Amen to that
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post #272 of 9416 Old 06-21-2006, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtman View Post

You stated the Mits blows away the Sammy right out of the box. Unless you do a fair comparison - that is, have them calibrated properly - and that's not even taking into account the fact that the store could have been feeding a crappy signal - then your statements are purely subjective. And let's face it, the way you praise Mits goes over the top....remember, you've given no details as to how you made your comparison. Only to say the Mits is great and the Sammy sucks. Where's your data? What Sammy's did you look at? You still haven't answered that question.

Gadgtman, think about what you are asking. An ISF calibration isn't free. And unless you purchase both sets YOU ARE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO COMPARE THESE SETS ISF'ED ANYWHERE! Besides that fact, I've never understood people spending $500 on an ISF calibration anyway. It's just me but I'd rather sell my TV after a year and take that $500 and put it toward the next years model which are typically a big improvement. So the best that 99% of us are going to get is to compare the two in store in as many setups as possible.

And to comment on the noise, EVERY DLP last year showed more noise than the following year. I can attest that Mitsubishi's 1st year DLP did not have all the noise and I think the wobulated DLP chips brought extra noise to the table.

And yes, the Samsung's do exhibit noise in the picture. Why do you think the SXRDs are so popular? Mainly because they are the most noise free microdisplays out (secondly for detail in dark scenes).

And yes, you won't see noise on Xbox 360 games or good high def but you will with mediocre HD, SD, and so so DVDs.

Lastly, it really is bothersome when so many on this forum say to basically ignore what you see in the store. NOT TRUE. Yes, don't take what you see in one stores setup to heart. Look at as many stores and compare as much as you can and look for conistant issues to show. I can tell you personally the comparing my SXRD to others in the store before I had it home that I thought at times it looked soft. Guess what? When I got it home when it wasn't good quality HD or a video game it looked soft. If you make the extra effort when comparing TVs and pay close attention to details like setting each TVs menu setting as close to the other as possible to your liking, make sure one TV isn't at a disadvantage to the other because one television is getting hit with an overhead light, and you compare in numerous stores, YOU CAN get a DECENT idea of what to expect at home.
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post #273 of 9416 Old 06-21-2006, 08:10 PM
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Note to all:

Do yourself a favor, don't rely on pbmpharmacist's opinion on how he is affected by rainbows. The RBE affect is personal. And as mentioned on this forum many times, MOST people are not affected by it: some can see it and can live with it, others will see it and drive them insane. So why worry about how it bother's him when all that matters is how you will be affected. If you want the Mits, buy it from a local dealer with a 30 day return policy and if it bothers you then take it back. If not, all is hopefully good. Personally, I've had 3 DLPs and at least 10-15 different people over and NO ONE has seen a rainbow.

He's already given a great comparison from what he has seen picture quality-wise, and he's been fair too. After all, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and we may not all agree so if pbmpharmacist think's it's way better than the Sammy then that's his opinion. I haven't been blown away by the Sammy either, but that's just my opinion.
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post #274 of 9416 Old 06-21-2006, 08:44 PM
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1) gadgtman, I don't think anyone is flat out invalidating your comments, I think we just don't want the arguing, it makes us uncomforatable at the dinner table while you two fight

2) xb, good points on the ISF calib and instore-impressions.

3) anyone, how does returning a huge item like this work? Do you call Circuit City or whatever, and they send a truck BACK to your house with a box to pack it all back up and take it back? I've never bought anything OR returned anythng this big, so I have no idea. Everyone keeps saying "ohh 30 day return policy", but seriously... how does it work? The biggest car I own is an Accord, so if *I* have to get it back to the store, 30-day return policy means **** to me.

Best, Riyad
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post #275 of 9416 Old 06-21-2006, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtman View Post

I read all forums to learn about all TV's, just like everyone else including you (where you bash Sammy in pretty much every other thread as well by the way). We still don't know what Sammy you looked at. How can that be a fair and balanced review? That's like saying I test drove a porche and some car from Ford, and the porche blew it away. Not much to chew on there.

Dude, what is your problem? Pharmacist is NOT the person to bring up. If you want to bash someone bash me. I've bashed Sammy before and i'll do it again. I saw it today HOOKED UP TO A BLUE RAY PLAYER and it SUCKED! The Sammy SUCKS, how do you like that?
If you took time to read the 2006 SXRD thread, the Sammy 87/88 thread, and now the Mitsubishi thread you would soon realize a lot of us are deciding between the A2000, Sammy 87/88 series, and more recently the new Mitsubishi's. I posted the Mits. press release a while back and some of us added it to consideration especially since it's 12 bit and has a DVI/PC connection. If you take time to read the Sammy 87/88 thread you will hear some complaints that Sammy has excess noise even from people who own them. The Sammy 87/88 series was my second choice to the A2000 but have since dropped it off the radar. It's a nice set but not for me. So now the Mitsubishi is and will be compared to the A2000 by me and appreciate pharmacist's impressions of the new Mitsubishi's. Maybe you should of read his initial reaction of the Mits by stating it didn't have as good of shadow detail as the SXRD.
As far as fair and balanced reviews, well, dream on. These forums will never satisfy everyone because if you love one brand you are a "fan boy", if you can't decide from the many brands you are considered stupid for waiting so long because better technology will always give you buyers remorse..that's the nature of electronics.
The bottom line is...and should be....that you take as much information as possible from these forums, do research on the internet from reputable sites, and then take all this knowledge with you to the retail stores while you do a hands on experience with the sets you are interested in. Your eyes will be the best judge.
As far as my opinion of the new 87 series Sammy, i have probably seen over a hundred of these and have made my decision to eliminate it from my consideration. I want to personally thank pharmacist for his thorough and honest opinions about the new Mitsubishi.
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post #276 of 9416 Old 06-21-2006, 09:13 PM
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My WD-57731 gets delivered tommorrow night. I WAS going to return the favor of pb and post my opinion and some pictures to help others but this forum has turned into a ridiculous pissing match between people taking this way too seriously.
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post #277 of 9416 Old 06-21-2006, 09:25 PM
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I am not a truck nor SUV lover.. hence I bougt a utility trailer.. for rainy days such as returning (or buying) a big screen or furnitures


Quote:
Originally Posted by rsk View Post

3) anyone, how does returning a huge item like this work? Do you call Circuit City or whatever, and they send a truck BACK to your house with a box to pack it all back up and take it back? I've never bought anything OR returned anythng this big, so I have no idea. Everyone keeps saying "ohh 30 day return policy", but seriously... how does it work? The biggest car I own is an Accord, so if *I* have to get it back to the store, 30-day return policy means **** to me.

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post #278 of 9416 Old 06-21-2006, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottjayhawk View Post

My WD-57731 gets delivered tommorrow night. I WAS going to return the favor of pb and post my opinion and some pictures to help others but this forum has turned into a ridiculous pissing match between people taking this way too seriously.

Scott there are a lot of people reading this thread that will find your posts valuable, and I am one of those people. I'm more than happy to host the picture for you if you need hosting. I understand you might be a bit discouraged, but your efforts will be appreciated and won't go unnoticed if you do decide to snaps some pics and do a quick review for folks here.

Just PM me if you need me to host anything and I'll kick you back an email to send them to.

Best, Riyad
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post #279 of 9416 Old 06-21-2006, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wagon Man View Post

I am not a truck nor SUV lover.. hence I bougt a utility trailer.. for rainy days such as returning (or buying) a big screen or furnitures

So you are telling me before I get my HDTV, I *have* to buy a half-ton quad cab dualie and there is nothing my wife can say to talk me out of it?

Alright then, I'll do it!

Seriously though, no one has answered me yet about this question... I think this is all a myth, I don't think anyone actually ever returns these TVs... this is like Loch Ness or something, everyone knows about it and talks about it, but no one has actually DONE it

Best, Riyad
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post #280 of 9416 Old 06-21-2006, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by tranzixter View Post

PBM did a good job. Im surprised he is the only one to have purchased as set though. I would guess anyone following this thread and just purchasing the TV would want to let their opinions known. Maybe these new models are hard to come by.

The reason for this is because the Mitsubishi 2006/2007 lineup is a relative newcomer to the fray. The new Sammy 1080p's have been out awhile and the new SXRD's have been talked about since 1998. The Mistubishi press release in April caught our attention and we started a thread not too long ago so it's not surprising a lot of people aren't talking about these....in fact, the model i'm considering isn't even on the site yet. Here's the original release from Mitsubishi:
http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_b/Mi...2006_HDTV.html
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post #281 of 9416 Old 06-21-2006, 11:23 PM
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lipcrkr,

Thank you for your fitting response to gadgtman. I was so surprised he had the nerve to attack pbmpharmacist, in his own thread, just for saying what anyone with two eyes and good vision can attest to: Sammys suck out of the box! Let me define, "suck": mosquito noise, background block noise, pixelation, crushed blacks, etc.

That is not to say that the Sammy HL-S series isn't great once you play around with them. UMR swears by his Sammy, and I feel he is a very reputable and qualified source. Once calibrated, the HL-S Sammy's are by all accounts AWESOME!!! If you don't mind the potential for rainbows, they may even top the SXRD sets (I can't confirm or deny that). I haven't moved them off my potential list yet (though they trail the Mits, SXRD, and JVCs for me right now).

I've seen an HL-S with the Sony Hawaii feed. It was very nice (though the SXRD still seemed to have much more natural color). I've never seen a professionally calibrated HL-S. I'll bet that is a sight to behold (just like a professionally calibrated SXRD, Mits, or JVC). Life is good with so many options (now if I could just pick out my set).

pbmpharmacist,

Thank you for all your great insightful posts. Let's all just ignore the fanboys who can't objectively see the pros and cons of their recently purchased sets.

Now back on topic:

Does anyone know when the 831 series is supposed to hit? Has anyone seen what the "Dark Detailer contrast enhancement" can do?

My A2000 Settings for the S3 TiVo, PS3, Xbox 360, and Nintendo Wii.
My A2000 Lag Test & A2000 Lag Timing Estimations.
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post #282 of 9416 Old 06-22-2006, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVBill View Post

lipcrkr,

Thank you for your fitting response to gadgtman. I was so surprised he had the nerve to attack pbmpharmacist, in his own thread, just for saying what anyone with two eyes and good vision can attest to: Sammys suck out of the box! Let me define, "suck": mosquito noise, background block noise, pixelation, crushed blacks, etc.

That is not to say that the Sammy HL-S series isn't great once you play around with them. UMR swears by his Sammy, and I feel he is a very reputable and qualified source. Once calibrated, the HL-S Sammy's are by all accounts AWESOME!!! If you don't mind the potential for rainbows, they may even top the SXRD sets (I can't confirm or deny that). I haven't moved them off my potential list yet (though they trail the Mits, SXRD, and JVCs for me right now).

I've seen an HL-S with the Sony Hawaii feed. It was very nice (though the SXRD still seemed to have much more natural color). I've never seen a professionally calibrated HL-S. I'll bet that is a sight to behold (just like a professionally calibrated SXRD, Mits, or JVC). Life is good with so many options (now if I could just pick out my set).

pbmpharmacist,

Thank you for all your great insightful posts. Let's all just ignore the fanboys who can't objectively see the pros and cons of their recently purchased sets.

Now back on topic:

Does anyone know when the 831 series is supposed to hit? Has anyone seen what the "Dark Detailer contrast enhancement" can do?

No problem. I embelished my "Sammy sux" to make a point. The Sammy 87 sets that i have seen, and i've seen many, are among the best out there. But i like the smoother look of the SXRD primarily because of movies. Not DVD's but HD cable movies on my premium channels. I think some people prefer a sharper image which i feel borders on noise, and some prefer a smoother look which could turn some people off. The reason i have considered the new Mitsubishi is i've heard it's sharp but exhibits less noise which sounds like a nice balance.
I think the "dark detailer" is an answer to Sony's Cinema Black Pro which should increase shadow detail by opening and closing the iris.
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post #283 of 9416 Old 06-22-2006, 12:49 AM
 
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PBM.....how quickly does the TV change channels when you channel surf?

Are you using a cable card, or cable box or Antenna input.

I know my cable box takes a long time to change channels and its not condusive to my surfing habit. With the digital stuff, I may need to kick the surfing habit.
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post #284 of 9416 Old 06-22-2006, 04:13 AM
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Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

Lastly, it really is bothersome when so many on this forum say to basically ignore what you see in the store. NOT TRUE. Yes, don't take what you see in one stores setup to heart. Look at as many stores and compare as much as you can and look for conistant issues to show. I can tell you personally the comparing my SXRD to others in the store before I had it home that I thought at times it looked soft. Guess what? When I got it home when it wasn't good quality HD or a video game it looked soft. If you make the extra effort when comparing TVs and pay close attention to details like setting each TVs menu setting as close to the other as possible to your liking, make sure one TV isn't at a disadvantage to the other because one television is getting hit with an overhead light, and you compare in numerous stores, YOU CAN get a DECENT idea of what to expect at home.

Agreed - the problem is that PBM never saw an HLS - he stated that in one of his original posts. That's simply what I was trying to get across.
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post #285 of 9416 Old 06-22-2006, 04:20 AM
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Originally Posted by rsk View Post

1) gadgtman, I don't think anyone is flat out invalidating your comments, I think we just don't want the arguing, it makes us uncomforatable at the dinner table while you two fight

I think this is the first time I've objected so fiercly on a forum. Maybe I was the only one to catch PBM with his pants down - didn't anybody else pick up on the fact that he never did see an HLS? And that he never mentioned the HSL6188 until his last post?

I can't post his PM to me last night - it would make even a drunken sailor blush.
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post #286 of 9416 Old 06-22-2006, 04:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lipcrkr View Post

...Here's the original release from Mitsubishi:
http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_b/Mi...2006_HDTV.html

I don't think that's an official release from Mits is it? I still don't understand why they haven't put out an official press release with all prices. The 57731 is already out and i still haven't seen an official release other than the link you posted . I guess we won't get the actual true MSRP prices until they hit the stores.
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post #287 of 9416 Old 06-22-2006, 05:32 AM
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Originally Posted by rsk View Post

3) anyone, how does returning a huge item like this work? Do you call Circuit City or whatever, and they send a truck BACK to your house with a box to pack it all back up and take it back? I've never bought anything OR returned anythng this big, so I have no idea. Everyone keeps saying "ohh 30 day return policy", but seriously... how does it work? The biggest car I own is an Accord, so if *I* have to get it back to the store, 30-day return policy means **** to me.

I've never returned a set but I've exchanged 3 JVCs, the most recent has been junked out for a WD-65731 that should be here on July 7th. Since I paid for delivery the first time BB always sends out a truck to do the exchange and has never asked me to pay for any additional delivery.

Not trying to pick sides but I had my heart set on getting one of the new Samsung sets but couldn't get past the noise. Even had the wife convinced. I have Comcast HDTV, HD-DVD, HTPC all that good stuff that puts out a nice strong HD feed and reduce the amount of noticeable noise but I also watch a lot of SD Tivo recordings and felt that the Samsung wasn't the best choice for my individual needs. That said, I purchased the Mits without seeing it and I'll have no problem returning it if I don't think I got a set worth the amount of $$$ I spent and the trouble I've had to go through to get that POS JVC replaced. I hope to be posting pictures July 7th.
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post #288 of 9416 Old 06-22-2006, 06:08 AM
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I saw the WD-57731 a big box store last week. It was priced around the same price as the 61" HLS 87 series powerbuy. Hopefully that gives you a rough estimate. Typically these stores do not discount too far below retail.
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post #289 of 9416 Old 06-22-2006, 06:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

Do yourself a favor, don't rely on pbmpharmacist's opinion on how he is affected by rainbows. The RBE affect is personal. And as mentioned on this forum many times, MOST people are not affected by it: some can see it and can live with it, others will see it and drive them insane. So why worry about how it bother's him when all that matters is how you will be affected. If you want the Mits, buy it from a local dealer with a 30 day return policy and if it bothers you then take it back. If not, all is hopefully good. Personally, I've had 3 DLPs and at least 10-15 different people over and NO ONE has seen a rainbow.

I agree 100%. Don't ignore DLPs because I see RBE. If you don't see them then that's all that matters. My wife has watched TV along side with me the whole time and has NEVER seen them even when I re-wound a scene and pointed it out. Get a 30 day return policy without a penalty and try one out if you are thus inclined
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post #290 of 9416 Old 06-22-2006, 06:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottjayhawk View Post

My WD-57731 gets delivered tommorrow night. I WAS going to return the favor of pb and post my opinion and some pictures to help others but this forum has turned into a ridiculous pissing match between people taking this way too seriously.

You should post your opinion. The more opinions posted, the better the thread. I encourage anyone to comment on the set, even if it's just in-store discussion.
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post #291 of 9416 Old 06-22-2006, 06:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsk View Post

So you are telling me before I get my HDTV, I *have* to buy a half-ton quad cab dualie and there is nothing my wife can say to talk me out of it?

Alright then, I'll do it!

Seriously though, no one has answered me yet about this question... I think this is all a myth, I don't think anyone actually ever returns these TVs... this is like Loch Ness or something, everyone knows about it and talks about it, but no one has actually DONE it

If you don't own an SUV or a truck, you can probably rent a cargo van/truck from U-haul for about 20 bucks. I have a friend that did that. He bought a lousy HDTV b/c of salesman hype and he dragged in back in there for a full refund.
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post #292 of 9416 Old 06-22-2006, 06:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Too all: thanks for the support and for pointing out the noise on the Samsung sets. I'm NOT a Samsung hater, I have several of their products in my home right now.
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post #293 of 9416 Old 06-22-2006, 06:36 AM
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This bickering will stop now or the thread will close.

Lets get back to owner discussions please.

Quick Reference of Forum Rules
1) Do Not post pricing you found on-line or at a local dealer UNLESS IN A DEALS THREAD.
2) Do Not ask for, or offer, a receipt so people can price match.
3) Do Not say to "Call John Smith at ..." (you know what I mean)
4) Do Not put down someone else's choice in...

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post #294 of 9416 Old 06-22-2006, 07:22 AM
 
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Originally Posted by scottjayhawk View Post

My WD-57731 gets delivered tommorrow night. I WAS going to return the favor of pb and post my opinion and some pictures to help others but this forum has turned into a ridiculous pissing match between people taking this way too seriously.

Scottjay: Looking forward to your opinions after you have fired up the set. For me its easy to ignore the crap....or even use the threads ignore feature once you figure out they are a troll, which usually can be done in 1 or 2 posts.
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post #295 of 9416 Old 06-22-2006, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tranzixter View Post

Scottjay: Looking forward to your opinions after you have fired up the set. For me its easy to ignore the crap....or even use the threads ignore feature once you figure out they are a troll, which usually can be done in 1 or 2 posts.

I second that! Please post anything relevant to these TVs. I personally would love to see more pictures and any information on tweaks/settings changes, best content to show off the new TV with, HDMI experiences, etc.

I think the more factual information we post the easier it will be for people to make their own comparisons. So far I know to watch out for RBE. I've only ever seen RBE on cheap front projectors. Especially when you pick them up and shake them back an forth.

Without great forums I would have never known that there was a name for the "neon purple spot" I am seeing on my old JVC and that I am not really just going crazy. A fact that would have prevented me from purchasing it in the first place.

July 7th can't get here soon enough.
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post #296 of 9416 Old 06-22-2006, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by pbmpharmacist View Post

I'm not sure you'd need to calibrate the Mits

I agree with this statement.
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post #297 of 9416 Old 06-22-2006, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by gadgtman View Post

Your observations are clearly biased towards the Mits. To say the Samsung looks like garbage out of the box is irresponsible without telling us more detail - not to mention this contradicts what many others believe. It's OK to like the Mits, but you are clearly biased against anything non-Mits, and you don't supply the appropriate detail to back up your claims. Do you work for Mits?


I looked at all the sets on the floor. Checked analog and HD with each comparison set to factory default. I thought the Mits had the best detail and color reproduction. Samsung's skintones were pinkish and not as detailed. I also thought their screen "sparkled" and was too distracting. Sony's SXRD was oversaturated - grass on a soccer field shouldn't glow or radiate. Their reds were the same way. And I'll be honest - I'm biased on the Mits cosmetics.

So I agree with the thread's "Pharmacist." However, I don't see the rainbows and I intentionally didn't explain it to my wife. I think once you see them, you'll go looking for them.

Again my personal opinion. Your eyes are the best judge.
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post #298 of 9416 Old 06-22-2006, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by rsk View Post

Seriously though, no one has answered me yet about this question... I think this is all a myth, I don't think anyone actually ever returns these TVs... this is like Loch Ness or something, everyone knows about it and talks about it, but no one has actually DONE it

maybe this is not an answer to your exact question, but I exchanged my first Mits set. The store came with a big truck to deliver my new set and took my old one away. No problems (or lifting for me either!).
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post #299 of 9416 Old 06-22-2006, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by snuba View Post

maybe this is not an answer to your exact question, but I exchanged my first Mits set. The store came with a big truck to deliver my new set and took my old one away. No problems (or lifting for me either!).

That does help, thank you.

Out of curiosity, which mits did you exchange, and why?

Best, Riyad
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post #300 of 9416 Old 06-22-2006, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Soundboy View Post

I looked at all the sets on the floor. Checked analog and HD with each comparison set to factory default. I thought the Mits had the best detail and color reproduction. Samsung's skintones were pinkish and not as detailed. I also thought their screen "sparkled" and was too distracting. Sony's SXRD was oversaturated - grass on a soccer field shouldn't glow or radiate. Their reds were the same way. And I'll be honest - I'm biased on the Mits cosmetics.

So I agree with the thread's "Pharmacist." However, I don't see the rainbows and I intentionally didn't explain it to my wife. I think once you see them, you'll go looking for them.

Again my personal opinion. Your eyes are the best judge.

Soundboy,

can you please tell us which Mitsu & Sammy models did you see and compare in store?

Plasma LCD or SED ?
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