2007 Mitsubishi WD-XX73X and XX831 Owner's Thread - Page 101 - AVS Forum
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post #3001 of 9416 Old 09-10-2006, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by lipcrkr View Post

I've seen these 2 modes on a "Y' series and they are way too bright. I really don't think i'm making my point clear.

"Too bright" is relative to 2 things: personal preference, and ambient light (by "ambient," I simply mean "as found in the surrounding area or environment.") Based on my observations, most serious videophiles will want to use Natural mode, along with the indirect, dim lighting recommended by our forum's resident professional calibrators. On the other hand, the WAF will probably prefer Brilliant mode while watching daytime TV with the shades raised and the curtains open on a bright, sunny day.

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Anyways, since LA won't be getting the 831 series till 2009 i need to ask.....where are the owners manuals? The Mitsubishi site only has last years up. The only way i'll be able to answer these questions is thru the manual. This will give me an idea of how Mitsubishi utilizes the Iris. My viewing will primarily be in ambient light, i was hoping natural mode would be the best for movie (not DVD) viewing. I don't see how the "Bright" mode can attain a level of fine detail in a samurai uniform. If "bright" was too bright in the store it will look like the sun at home.

Yes, I'd like to get those manuals also.

To me, Bright-iris mode seemed the best in the Magnolia showroom, which has bright lights on racks hanging from the ceiling. I got extremely close to the same brightness on the A2000 (right next to the 732) by setting BlackCorrector=Low, contrast=88, brightness=56 and iris=Auto1 (which I preferred to the Auto2 setting I use at home, at least in the Magnolia showroom.) For the HL-S7187W, I set DNie=Off, Contrast=50 and Brightness=45 to match the other two as closely as possible.

For the WD-65732, if I remember correctly, I had Mode=Bright, Contrast=63 (max,) brightness=32, Deep-Field-Imager=on and color=25. I am quite sure that it would be easy to configure it to look very good indeed in total darkness, using Mode=Natural, and somewhat lower brightness. And you could easily do that, without affecting the WAF settings for Brilliant mode.

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post #3002 of 9416 Old 09-11-2006, 02:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sourcery View Post

SDE is "Screen Door Effect." It's caused by the separation between pixels on plasma and LCD screens. DLP and LCOS sets do not exhibit any SDE at all, period.

DLP and LCOS have fill factors of about 88-92% and can been seen if the displays optical system has the resolving power. However any slight misfocus (intentional or otherwise) will make it nearly invisible.
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post #3003 of 9416 Old 09-11-2006, 04:47 AM
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Originally Posted by unique123456 View Post

got my 57831 all setup and have been tinkering with it for a day now. Nothing really too bad to say. HD on this set is as good if not better than any plasma. SD isn't too bad either. PS2 looks good (can't wait till PS3 comes out though--that'll look even better). My only disappointment is that DVD's don't look better. I guess I thought that even though regular DVD's on a progressive scan DVD player are only 480p, I thought that the TV would make them look even better. Actually they look worse, less crisp--even less crisp than the 720p SD digital cable stations (what a difference HDMI connection makes vs. componet.) It's not a big enough deal to warrant taking it back or any thing, considering that I could get an upconverting DVD player or what for the PS3 and play my movies through that...anyway....this TV is great, easy to use--many functions that you probably won't use b/c your cable/sat. provider will already provide certain services, but outstanding PQ and the card reader/slide show function are really nice and makes my pictures (on a Sony Memory Stick) look awesome. I would thus far recommend the TV, which I think is partly great due to the high contrast screen. No real cons as far as the TV specifically to mention.

Hey unique....,
I have ordered the 65831 and have been wondering what to do about a DVD player. You mention getting an upconverting DVD player but won't the TV do the upconversion better than a DVD player since it is the latest and greatest technology? I want to be able to rent my DVDs from the video store and not have to order online.
Thanks in advance for your reply.
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post #3004 of 9416 Old 09-11-2006, 05:01 AM
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Originally Posted by cbm2006 View Post

Hey unique....,
I have ordered the 65831 and have been wondering what to do about a DVD player. You mention getting an upconverting DVD player but won't the TV do the upconversion better than a DVD player since it is the latest and greatest technology? I want to be able to rent my DVDs from the video store and not have to order online.
Thanks in advance for your reply.


Its going to depend on which upconvert DVD player you are comparing to the scaler/deinterlacer in the Mits.

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post #3005 of 9416 Old 09-11-2006, 05:52 AM
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Here are my latest settings after using Avia's test patterns.

Picture Mode - Natural (it is not too dim, especially not for movies)
Color Temp -High (did not like the yellow look of Low setting)
Deep Field Imager - off
Sharp Edge - off
Video noise - low (didn't notice a big difference on what setting it was at)
Sharpness - 0 (anywhere from 0 to 10 was just fine when using Avia)
Contrast - 50 (anywhere from 45-63 was about the same when using Avia but does affect how the brightness test pattern looks)
Brightness - 18 (anywhere from 16-20 was about the same when using Avia but does affect how contrast test pattern looks)
Color - 40 (Perfect setting when using Avia thru a blue filter)
Tint - 32 (Perfect setting when using Avia thru a blue filter)
Perfect Color and Perfect Tint - I have not played with this yet so it is still at factory settings default.

Contrast and Brightness play off of each other. So I did several back and forth tweaking between the two when using Avia test patterns.

Keep in mind if you change the Picture Mode or Color Temp, these will dramatically affect how the Brightness, Contrast, Color, and Tint will need to be changed.

If you change Sharp Edge and Video Noise settings then Sharpness may need to change also.

Dark Detailer must always be on. Don't remember seeing this anywhere in the TV settings.

I forgot what the overscan was (I think somewhere around 3%-5%)

A little pin cushioning when viewing 4:3 material.

I will also be using DVE to see if any differences with Avia, but after watching several movies and watching HD tennis and a few other programming yesterday, I think I like the way it is for now. Some of the features Mits has (dark detailer, deep field imager and sharp edge) are hard too tell if I will use them or not and may depend on the video source.

A lot of playing yet to do.
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post #3006 of 9416 Old 09-11-2006, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lipcrkr View Post

When i said torch mode i meant the 831. Some people have said natural mode may look dim on the 831, so if i have to use Bright or Brilliant to attain an acceptable shadow detail level then that to me is torch mode. I've seen these 2 modes on a "Y' series and they are way too bright. I really don't think i'm making my point clear. Anyways, since LA won't be getting the 831 series till 2009 i need to ask.....where are the owners manuals? The Mitsubishi site only has last years up. The only way i'll be able to answer these questions is thru the manual. This will give me an idea of how Mitsubishi utilizes the Iris. My viewing will primarily be in ambient light, i was hoping natural mode would be the best for movie (not DVD) viewing. I don't see how the "Bright" mode can attain a level of fine detail in a samurai uniform. If "bright" was too bright in the store it will look like the sun at home.

That was my initail impression. However I had all day yesterday to tweak this set and the picture is most pleasing in Natural with Color temp of high. The pregame show on NBC last night was the most transparent HD I've ever seen. I have a Panny 50" Plasma in the bedroom. I kept going back and fourth between the two sets and the Mits was more "looking through a window".

You do not need Brilliant or Bright to bring out shadow detail. I'm just in awe of this set. Even my wife who could care less about this stuff has said several times "Wow, look at that picture".

John McAdams
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post #3007 of 9416 Old 09-11-2006, 06:28 AM
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I know that everyone is all geeked up about the 831 but some of us have the 731. Anyone have settings for the 731? I have played around a little but I'm not very good at it. Let me know if anyone has perfected the settings.
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post #3008 of 9416 Old 09-11-2006, 06:51 AM
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"My only disappointment is that DVD's don't look better. I guess I thought that even though regular DVD's on a progressive scan DVD player are only 480p, I thought that the TV would make them look even better. Actually they look worse, less crisp--even less crisp than the 720p SD digital cable stations (what a difference HDMI connection makes vs. componet.) It's not a big enough deal to warrant taking it back or any thing, considering that I could get an upconverting DVD player "

Get an HD DVD player and you wiill see the beauty and sing the praises of your new tv, instead of being disappointed how your upscaled 480 DVDs look. I guarantee it.
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post #3009 of 9416 Old 09-11-2006, 07:08 AM
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This concerns me some. I have a rather large library of DVD's that I don't want to give up. We're going to watch them quite often. I don't really want to jump on the HDDVD band wagon until prices come down and everything is sorted out.

Will those that have the 65831 let us know exactly how DVD looks and what player you have?

Right now I have a Sony Progressive Scan DVD player but will move it and get an OPPO for upconverting.

I can gaurantee that most of my viewing will be DVD's for quite some time.

I'm now Neutral
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post #3010 of 9416 Old 09-11-2006, 07:55 AM
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Standard DVD's look great being upconverted on my Toshiba HD XA1. Prior to hooking up the Toshiba I had the 65731 and an Arcam DV 79. Like most DVD's some looked great, some not. I don't agree with the poster that said this set makes dvd's look worse.

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post #3011 of 9416 Old 09-11-2006, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sourcery View Post

I've never seen a rear-projection set with SDE, altough I haven't seen a Mitsu 62531.

Of course, nothing prevents a rear-projection set from being so designed that it would show SDE. It's so easy to keep SDE out of the design, that I've always assumed that any self-respecting TV manufacturer would do so. Could be wrong, I guess.

I see it on the toshiba 56hm66, the mits 62531, and a couple older sony's. Its mostly noticable within 3 feet, like say looking at the screen while walking by...but its easy for me to see, without treying. and as soon as I point it out, its noticable to anyone. The new 62531 is the worst I have EVER seen. Its horrible.

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post #3012 of 9416 Old 09-11-2006, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by btherndon View Post

I know that everyone is all geeked up about the 831 but some of us have the 731. Anyone have settings for the 731? I have played around a little but I'm not very good at it. Let me know if anyone has perfected the settings.

I feel the same way. I would love to see some tweaks and settings for the WD-XX731.

I think this thread needs to be divided.

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post #3013 of 9416 Old 09-11-2006, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by preludejtstyle View Post

I see it on the toshiba 56hm66, the mits 62531, and a couple older sony's. Its mostly noticable within 3 feet, like say looking at the screen while walking by...but its easy for me to see, without treying. and as soon as I point it out, its noticable to anyone. The new 62531 is the worst I have EVER seen. Its horrible.

Who watches tv from 3 feet? At 1.5 x screen width it is just not an issue.

John McAdams
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post #3014 of 9416 Old 09-11-2006, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by longshot View Post

Standard DVD's look great being upconverted on my Toshiba HD XA1. Prior to hooking up the Toshiba I had the 65731 and an Arcam DV 79. Like most DVD's some looked great, some not. I don't agree with the poster that said this set makes dvd's look worse.

But are we saying that feeding a non-upconverted 480p dvd signal into the component inputs of a 732/831 may be a little disappointing quality-wise compared to some other HD tv's? This could be significant for anybody who has much 480p material and for whatever reason can't or don't want to upconvert externally.
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post #3015 of 9416 Old 09-11-2006, 09:06 AM
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That's what I"m concerned with. I'm afraid if we do this and then I have to go tell my wife we need a $500 HD DVD player for DVD to look good I'm as good as dead

I'm now Neutral
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post #3016 of 9416 Old 09-11-2006, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenking View Post

But are we saying that feeding a non-upconverted 480p dvd signal into the component inputs of a 732/831 may be a little disappointing quality-wise compared to some other HD tv's?

A "non-up-converted" 480p signal using a component connection has been de-interlaced and converted from digital to analog by any DVD player in order to output 480p from the 480i digital data stored on a DVD. How each individual DVD player does that conversion will effect the PQ of the final result. So will the quality of the TV's conversion from analog back to digital.

Many people who are still using component connections with a progressive DVD player turn progressive mode off and output the native 480i signal.

DVD players with HDMI or DVI output avoid the two "analog" conversions if the TV has an all digital path for HDMI/DVI inputs. I assume that the new Mitsubishi sets have an all digital path for their HDMI/DVI inputs.

All DVD players using an analog component connection are not created equal.
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post #3017 of 9416 Old 09-11-2006, 09:16 AM
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I have one of the CC Y57's (basically a 57731) and have done a bit of experimenting with regular DVDs. My player is a Panasonic RP56 on component and also used an LG511A up-converting player on HDMI. I found that brightness and contrast adjustments made the world of difference. Now using 41 contrast and 30 bright on Natural setting with color temp High. Tint at 31 and color ranging from 28 to 38 (I tend to like a bit less saturation so usually am at 28).

In short, I found that the Panny outputting 480P on component was everybit as good as the LG outputting 1080i on HDMI. For my money, I don't think an upconverting player is necessary for this set, it scales excellently on it's own.

By the way, I use High color temp because I could not get a pleasing flesh tone on Low. I believe that these sets have their defaults for color and tint setup based on High.
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post #3018 of 9416 Old 09-11-2006, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sourcery View Post

There are three auto-iris settings: Natural, Bright and Brilliant. Each lets you independently set the contrast, brightness, color intensity and color temperature (if I remember correctly--could someone who owns a 732 or 831 verify that list?) I believe all the other options are global across the three auto-iris settings. This makes it easy to configure Brilliant for bright sunlight, Bright for bright room lighting, and Natural for dim or no light situations, since all three iris modes are equally configurable (unlike the Sony Vivid/Standard/Custom triad.)

this is true. each of the picture modes have their own independent settings. brilliant is insanely bright. it's way too much and probably the setting you'll be seeing in stores. bright is perfect for daytime viewing which is why i originally chose it on saturday afternoon after receiving the tv. but in ambient, low light settings, natural just takes on a life of its own. it's also great for daytime viewing so i'm just going to leave it on natural for the time being.
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post #3019 of 9416 Old 09-11-2006, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by rlu929s View Post

That's what I"m concerned with. I'm afraid if we do this and then I have to go tell my wife we need a $500 HD DVD player for DVD to look good I'm as good as dead

If you buy a digital TV then it stands to reason that you will get better PQ from a DVD player that outputs a digital signal.

The Toshiba A1 HD-DVD player does a good job converting SD 480i DVD data to 1080i, but so do several SD players in the $150-$200 range.
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post #3020 of 9416 Old 09-11-2006, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by longshot View Post

The pregame show on NBC last night was the most transparent HD I've ever seen. I have a Panny 50" Plasma in the bedroom. I kept going back and fourth between the two sets and the Mits was more "looking through a window".

You do not need Brilliant or Bright to bring out shadow detail. I'm just in awe of this set. Even my wife who could care less about this stuff has said several times "Wow, look at that picture".

i felt the same way... the pregame show and the entire sunday night game on this television, well, at times it was almost overwhelming. too bad the lighting at giants stadium sucks. but it was by far the best HD football coverage i've ever seen.
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post #3021 of 9416 Old 09-11-2006, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by rcglider View Post

In short, I found that the Panny outputting 480P on component was everybit as good as the LG outputting 1080i on HDMI. For my money, I don't think an upconverting player is necessary for this set, it scales excellently on it's own.

Soo (assuming no difference between the Y57/731's and the 732/831's upconverting of 480), maybe that post about the slightly poor dvd quality was an individual problem, or hopefully much ado about nothing... Nevertheless, think i'm going to take one of my favorite dvds with me to the showroom, just to make sure.
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post #3022 of 9416 Old 09-11-2006, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmach View Post

Some 831 questions

1. The settings of natural, bright, or brilliant control the iris and not the output of the lamp wattage wise, from what I understand. So the lamp is always running a full 180 watts and there are no controls available to have it run at a lower wattage, as there is on the A2000.
Can someone verify this??

the only user adjustments that i've found related to power consumption deals with how fast the tv powers up. in energy mode you can chose low power or fast power on. but the settings claim to only affect power consumption while the tv is off.

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2. Also what is the minimum distance form the rear of the set to the wall for proper ventilation?

at least 4" of space on all sides

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3. Are the operators manuals posted anywhere yet, I did not see them on the Mits. web site yet.

not yet. if you have a specific question, ask away.
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post #3023 of 9416 Old 09-11-2006, 10:16 AM
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Any word on overscan for the xx831?
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post #3024 of 9416 Old 09-11-2006, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbm2006 View Post

Hey unique....,
I have ordered the 65831 and have been wondering what to do about a DVD player. You mention getting an upconverting DVD player but won't the TV do the upconversion better than a DVD player since it is the latest and greatest technology? I want to be able to rent my DVDs from the video store and not have to order online.
Thanks in advance for your reply.

I believe that the upconversion is only through the HDMI connection. We purchased a LG RC199H DVD/VCR and to get the unit to up convert you have to go through the HDMI port. I do see that the Mit's will take a 1080i signal through the component input's to the TV. Now whether the Set itself will up convert using those component jacks that would be something to ask Mitshubishi technical.

Just to satisfy MY wanting to know the answer I called Mitshubishi this morning. I have the 57831 on pre-order. I called and asked if the component inputs which support a 1080i signal would up convert to 1080P.

The Technical support at first said that the manual does not mention that the TV will up convert to 1080P at all, even though the on line information states this fact. He is moving this question up to the next level to find out the answer for me. Would take 24-48 hours for a reply.

Apparently some of the Mit's will not up convert only be able to accept the 1080P signal and is model dependant.
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post #3025 of 9416 Old 09-11-2006, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astro777 View Post

Has anyone compared the viewable angles of the 831 to the A2000?

the only advantage that i see the xbr1 and a2000 possibly having over the 831 is the viewing angles. but what i realized yesterday is that the viewing angles for the 831 really open up at 10 feet. originally we had our couch in the middle of the room, 8' from the screen. at that distance, looking up (like from a kneeling position) or down (like standing on a chair) at the screen from that distance would slightly affect the brightness, which was a minor annoyance. again it seems to me that the viewing angles on the 831 are more of an issue on the vertical axis than the horizontal. moving the couch back to 10 feet was a great improvement, and crouching, standing and walking back and forth across the back of the room from 12'-14', the viewing angle seemed to be wide open and greatly improved. someone with a larger room will have to comment on this but i'd highly suggest having a seating distance of least 10'.

but i will say from 10', every seat on our 8 foot couch was in the sweet spot, and in this sweet spot, neither of the currently available sxrd models can touch it's picture quality.
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post #3026 of 9416 Old 09-11-2006, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smeeg View Post

i felt the same way... the pregame show and the entire sunday night game on this television, well, at times it was almost overwhelming. too bad the lighting at giants stadium sucks. but it was by far the best HD football coverage i've ever seen.

Seriously considering the 73831. My wife loves movies and I love football. My experience says motion is where most TV's have trouble. Would love as much detail as possible on how HD football looked. Thanks in advance.
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post #3027 of 9416 Old 09-11-2006, 10:26 AM
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73732 In California

Lipcrkr,

There is a 73732 here is Santa Barbara for viewing at the local Mits dealer.
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post #3028 of 9416 Old 09-11-2006, 10:34 AM
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One last question. When I recently viewed the Sammy I had to move way back before the SSE went away. Did not seem to be nearly as much of an issue when looking at the 73732. Would appreciate comments on SSE on the 831's. I'll be sitting about 13' but off angle guest seating will be closer.
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post #3029 of 9416 Old 09-11-2006, 10:40 AM
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So has anyone found any 65831's in stock ready to purchase? Please PM if you know.

Thanks!
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post #3030 of 9416 Old 09-11-2006, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

If you buy a digital TV then it stands to reason that you will get better PQ from a DVD player that outputs a digital signal.

The Toshiba A1 HD-DVD player does a good job converting SD 480i DVD data to 1080i, but so do several SD players in the $150-$200 range.

I agree they do a Good Job but HD DVD slightly better with Standard DVD's - but the difference as you may know is what the HD DVD can do what the other players can NEVER DO - HD DVD content and sound just simply is at another level over any upconvert player and sure if you want to settle for less than - by all means go ahead or perhaps buy my Oppo 971 or Samsung upconvert as they no longer get used in my home - even though the Tosh can be buggy with some HDMI Audio - it's simply head and shoulders above the OPPO for what it does with an HD Disk - the Oppo simply cannot equal it so you save $300 for a less than experience on a $4K TV - doesn't make sense to me.

Ask anyone that's popped in their first HD Disk at the clarity and sound presentation - it's definitely a difference maker no Oppo can replicate and HD DVD rentals don't cost any more money through Netflix than standard - you just register and any HD Disks are defaulted as your choice and I had the same concerns of SD DVD's which with most they also look better.

Samsung 65F8000, 60D8000, 40HU6350, Panasonic 50E60 LCD's
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