2007 Mitsubishi WD-XX73X and XX831 Owner's Thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 9416 Old 06-17-2006, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by pbmpharmacist View Post

Ok, I finished watching Gladiator. I'll be sending the pics to RSK after some dinner to post.

Impressions are positive but I did see a lot of rainbows (wife saw none). I would recommend checking out the 2007 Mits as they seem a LOT better than the Samsungs that I saw.... more later

pbm, I didn't quite follow. You saw a lot of rainbows but said "check out the 2007 mits", isn't that what you got, was one of the 2007s?

Sorry to hear about the rainbows. Did you not see them at all in the store, or thought some tweaking would fix it? I don't know much about rainbowing so I don't know if only certain scenarios (movies like Gladiator) bring out the property while the feed in the store didn't?

Just look at the bright side, if you take it back, you'll just have to get a 60" XBR2 instead

Quick question, how do returns work with B&M like that, you call them and they send out a truck to pick it up and repackage it, no charge?

Best, Riyad
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post #92 of 9416 Old 06-17-2006, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by pbmpharmacist View Post

Now we're rolling along! Glad that someone else has confirmed these sets are lookin' good. May I ask why you want the 732? I had the store bring up the Internet so I could review the differences in the models (I really wasn't prepared for this purchase, just kind of happened). I didn't see a good reason to wait and pay more for the 732 series. Anyway, just curious.

The 732 has a card reader for pictures, and I prefer the black cabinet to the dark grey.
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post #93 of 9416 Old 06-17-2006, 06:48 PM
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Initial thoughts... need to watch a few movies and tweak some more before I comment too much

The Good so far

- form factor (did you see the picture of me holding a quarter next to the bezel?). Amazing.
- no weird HDMI issues, it just works
- quiet as heck
- specs indicate the set accepts 1080p in 24hz, 30 hz, and 60 hz over HDMI

The Bad so far

- no optical out is irritating to me (!)

It has Digital Audio out....same thing. Use this only if you use the cablecard. Otherwise use the digital audio out/in of the STB and A/V receiver.
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post #94 of 9416 Old 06-17-2006, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by pbmpharmacist View Post

Ok, I finished watching Gladiator. I'll be sending the pics to RSK after some dinner to post.

Impressions are positive but I did see a lot of rainbows (wife saw none). I would recommend checking out the 2007 Mits as they seem a LOT better than the Samsungs that I saw.... more later

The rainbow thing is unfortunate. It's just one of those things were some people can see it, and others can't. I can't even see it on the early samsung models. Your set looks very nice though. It's going to be very rough waiting until September for the 732.
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post #95 of 9416 Old 06-17-2006, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmpharmacist View Post

Ok, I finished watching Gladiator. I'll be sending the pics to RSK after some dinner to post.

Impressions are positive but I did see a lot of rainbows (wife saw none). I would recommend checking out the 2007 Mits as they seem a LOT better than the Samsungs that I saw.... more later

Rainbows in Gladiator.

Were they just visible to you during the high contrast scenes, or were they visible all the time? I think rainbows would bug me (and that eventually I'd see them even if I don't initially). I'm still probably leaning towards the SXRD as a result (though I like the better viewing angle, greater brightness, and smaller cabinet depths of the Sammy and Mits DLPs. Oh well, we can't have everything (though we should still count ourselves as fortunate if we can afford ANY of these new great 1080p TVs).

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post #96 of 9416 Old 06-17-2006, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmpharmacist View Post

Ok, I finished watching Gladiator. I'll be sending the pics to RSK after some dinner to post.

Impressions are positive but I did see a lot of rainbows (wife saw none). I would recommend checking out the 2007 Mits as they seem a LOT better than the Samsungs that I saw.... more later

Can you look in the manual and see what the rpm of the color wheel is? I believe it's still 10 +.
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post #97 of 9416 Old 06-17-2006, 08:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, I'm back. I'm going to go take screen shots of Gladiator and then will post a review. Check back in around an hour :-)
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post #98 of 9416 Old 06-17-2006, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by pbmpharmacist View Post

Ok, I'm back. I'm going to go take screen shots of Gladiator and then will post a review. Check back in around an hour :-)

Sorry about the rainbow thing man. I guess we might see you in Sonyland with an A2000 after all. (unless you decide the rainbows don't bother you enough.)

"Guns? Guns are easy."
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post #99 of 9416 Old 06-17-2006, 09:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rsk View Post

pbm, I didn't quite follow. You saw a lot of rainbows but said "check out the 2007 mits", isn't that what you got, was one of the 2007s?

Sorry to hear about the rainbows. Did you not see them at all in the store, or thought some tweaking would fix it? I don't know much about rainbowing so I don't know if only certain scenarios (movies like Gladiator) bring out the property while the feed in the store didn't?

Just look at the bright side, if you take it back, you'll just have to get a 60" XBR2 instead

Quick question, how do returns work with B&M like that, you call them and they send out a truck to pick it up and repackage it, no charge?

Screen shots are coming your way... I did my best but I doubt anyone will be able to use them to make an actual decision as they didn't turn out that great
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post #100 of 9416 Old 06-17-2006, 09:26 PM - Thread Starter
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All pics have been sent to RSK... I'm also scanning the specs sheet in the manual

Give me a few minutes to compose my thoughts on the TV and I'll write a review
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post #101 of 9416 Old 06-17-2006, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by pbmpharmacist View Post

Ok, I'm back. I'm going to go take screen shots of Gladiator and then will post a review. Check back in around an hour :-)

Don't forget to take a pic of the rainbow....lol.
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post #102 of 9416 Old 06-17-2006, 10:17 PM
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Is Mitsubishi coming out with a 50 or 52 inch version of this set ?
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post #103 of 9416 Old 06-17-2006, 10:19 PM
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I'm making the coffee ...awaiting your review
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post #104 of 9416 Old 06-17-2006, 10:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Setup
Was a snap. Plugged RF cable in, HDMI from HDMI switching receiver in, and Power cable and off it went. Auto programs clock and channels if you choose. Set boots up in seconds (didn't time it but probably under 10 secs).

I turned down the sharpness, down the contrast, turned the bulb brightness down and I was pretty happy with the picture. It actually looked good out of box.

Design
Form factor is amazing. VERY sleek. The bezel around the screen is the thinnest I have ever seen. Smaller than a quarter and probably around the size of a nickel. Cabinet is well made, high quality in my opinion. There is no wasted space, small footprint.

I'd be interested to see what this looks like in black (732 and 831 models). Color is very dark gray (gunmetal maybe?). I have it setting on a black stand and my wife swears they are the same color. They are VERY close.

Remote is small and sleek too. Ultimate electronics delivery guys said that was much smaller than the other Mits remotes. Partially backlit. Had no trouble finding the right button and things are well marked.

Menu is easy to navigate. Can rename inputs and they only show up if you have them plugged in and turned ON which is nice. Can adjust each of the 6 colors separately.

Features
You get a LOT for the money. 2 HDMI ports that seem to accept 1080p in 24, 30, and 60 fps. 1 rear firewire port. Oddly, no optical out. Just coaxial. Not really a problem, but worth a mention. Cable card. 2 sets Component in. PC-DVI ready for Media PC! By the way, I have had NO HDMI issues.

Has PIP (called split screen) but have to connect to both Ant1 and Ant 2 on back of set. It does the 2 equal sides of screen mode which is cool in addition to every other combination possible.

This set does NOT have the Dark Detailer iris that improves contrast and shadow details! More on this later...

Full specs for the 731 series... plug manually into browser
http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/common/getfile.asp?uuid={D81FBA30-5421-47C8-B47F-AFACCE2B74A3}

2007 Models on the Mits webpage
http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/televisions/types.asp?id=5

Performance
First off, I did see rainbows. I NEVER saw them in the store on any model before, including this one. I saw a lot of them (mainly high contrast scenes where one part of the screen is bright white and the other is in the shadows - happens a lot in Gladiator) and they were bothersome. My wife saw NO rainbows and she thinks I'm a little nuts and/or weird but whatever!

No screen glare (a huge plus for me b/c our house has lots of ambient lighting). Did not see SSE. NO redpush (I've found that hard to correct for). 150 watt bulb provides more than enough brightness (recommend turning it down).

SD picture quality was much better than expected (seriously). Maybe it's that 4D noise reduction or maybe it's just that it's a 12 bit set but I was impressed as it was actually pretty watchable.

HD picture quality - I don't have yet so I can't comment, sorry.

1080i upscaled DVD quality. This is what I watched the most and what I can best comment on...
The good:
Mostly watched Gladiator b/c it is one of my favorite movies and I'm very aware of what it should look like. Colors seemed accurate (ignore the pictures I took b/c they look yellow due to my lighting at the moment). Detail was very good, could see individual animal hairs during Gladiator without effort. Very clear. The BEST part people - I swear this TV is completely devoid of video noise. Let me repeat b/c this may be the most important thing I say... NO VIDEO NOISE ON THIS TV. This set looks NOTHING like the Sammy sets. There was NO pixelation, NO break-up, NO macroblocking... NOTHING. I swear. I did see jutter one time (and only one time, I took notes) but it may have been a layer change as I didn't go back and check it again b/c I only saw it happen once.

The bad:
Blacks were deep but shadow detail was lacking. Black crush? Shadow detail is definitely subpar compared to the SXRD. Can I correct this via calibration? Maybe. But this set (731 series) doesn't have the Dark Detailer to increase shadow detail in the higher sets - perhaps this is a feature worth purchasing.

Summary and Thoughts
This set is well designed, has a great chassis and is well thought out. The best news is little to NO video noise. I saw none and that was the sole reason that I had not bought a DLP in the past as they always looked noisy and therefore kinda crappy to me. Not THIS set. That 4D noise reduction really is doing something!

This set provides exceptional value for the money.. You really get a lot for your money (high quality and a ton of features such as PC DVI input, etc.) I think this set kills the Sammy HLS sets. Fair comparison is the HLS 88 series due to the firewire, cablecard, and other features. If you are considering the Sammy sets or have bought one and are still within your return time period, stop what you are doing and return the Sammy. You will thank me later.

This is hands down the best DLP set I have ever had the pleasure of watching. Of course, I haven't spent a ton of time watching them as I hadn't even seen rainbows before (it appear to be one of the unfortunates that sees rainbows). RBE is definitely a downside here. If you see RBE, do NOT buy this set. If you don't or haven't before, buy from a retailer with a very good return policy and give these sets a chance and I think they are worth it. The other downside to this set is a lack of shadow detail. I would probably recommend buying a 732 series set for picky buyers who aren't on a budget to see if the shadow detail was improved. If it was even slightly improved, it would be worth the small price hike.

Will I return it? Not sure right now. I really do love this set. The value factor is through the roof. My wife thinks it's the best TV ever! However, the RBE is annoying and I guess I'll just have to see how it goes over the next week or two. If I didn't see RBE, I'd probably just throw the receipt away... b/c I would NOT take it back for any other reason.
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post #105 of 9416 Old 06-17-2006, 10:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmach View Post

Is Mitsubishi coming out with a 50 or 52 inch version of this set ?

The front of the manual mentions a previously unknown WD-52631 set
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post #106 of 9416 Old 06-17-2006, 10:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by maximum360 View Post

Sorry about the rainbow thing man. I guess we might see you in Sonyland with an A2000 after all. (unless you decide the rainbows don't bother you enough.)

This is (unfortunately) a definite possibility.
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post #107 of 9416 Old 06-17-2006, 10:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lipcrkr View Post

Can you look in the manual and see what the rpm of the color wheel is? I believe it's still 10 +.

I skimmed the manual and didn't see this anywhere. I can only tell you that the RBE-affected should avoid this set. If you don't see RBE, I recommend it without hesitation.
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post #108 of 9416 Old 06-17-2006, 10:51 PM
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Alright guys, screenshots up. You can view them in slideshow but if you want the originals (Bigger) just use the dropdown to download them.

THanks pbm for throwing this review and all the info together, really helping a lot of people out:
http://www.box.net/public/6k56rcuvbg

(NOTE: The link I posted before is invalid, I updated it with this new one and this includes *all* the pictures so far)

Best, Riyad
The Buzz Media
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post #109 of 9416 Old 06-17-2006, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmpharmacist View Post

I skimmed the manual and didn't see this anywhere. I can only tell you that the RBE-affected should avoid this set. If you don't see RBE, I recommend it without hesitation.

Looks like it's 10 + rpm, i remember reading this a while back. I was considering the WD 52631 but shadow detail is a must for me since i watch lots of movies (HBO, Showtime, etc.) I like the fact there is no noise since this is the reason i eliminated the Sammy 88 series. I have never seen a rainbow in the store but i heard that people that didn't do see them at home in a darker enviroment. Perhaps some calibration may increase shadow detail?
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post #110 of 9416 Old 06-17-2006, 11:02 PM
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Great post pbmpharmacist and thanks for the details. Mits goofed up on last years DLP and sounds like they decided to get it right this year. I had high hopes for this years model after one of the highly touted improvements was the 4D noise reduction. The AMPV2 did a great job on my old 62725 model and was second to none that year. Even some standard DVDs on my old Toshiba progressive player still looked like low quality HD over component. I really was impressed.

My main concern for the Mits is the black levels, shadow detail, and noise in the picture. From your description it sounds like the noise isn't a worry. Even if it lags behind the SXRD slighty I'm sure the picture will be sharper as thats been a downer for the SXRD in my opinion. Yes, if it's high quality HD, the SXRD looks great. But anything else it will look a little out of focus. I figure the black levels are at least equal to the SXRD and hopefully better. And if nothing else, there won't be those dreaded blues and greens in the black levels.

That leaves the shadow detail. I had planned on the 732 series and to me the dark detailer would be worth it. I just hope it doesn't lag too far behind. When I compared the Sammy to the SXRD for shadow details, in some scenes the Sammy showed a little more detail in some scenes which I attribute to it being so much brighter than the SXRD. However, in one particular loop someone was standing beside a piano. On the SXRD you saw the wood on the side, on the Sammy it was TOTALLY black. However, at least in the BB loop this was rarely seen and I was looking for this.
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post #111 of 9416 Old 06-17-2006, 11:21 PM
 
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this is really a tremendous help pharm.

The shadow detail: I wish they would publish the contrast ratio. Samsung is showing 10,000/1. Maybe onthe 732 models with the iris feature they will publish it as it will then compare more favorably.

Doesnt the Mits wheel have 1 more color segment then the Samsung? I would think that would bring it closer to the 14.4 KRPM from 10KRPM since the segments effectively turn faster.

Its troubling you see RBE. has anyone seen RBE on the Samsungs?

Even with that you seem so happy with the set to recommend taking back or cancelling Samsung order. So then the RBE isnt so bad for you then?

thanks for the inputs again!
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post #112 of 9416 Old 06-18-2006, 12:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmpharmacist View Post

Can rename inputs and they only show up if you have them plugged in and turned ON which is nice.

All Samsung models prior to the HLS sets only required that an input device be connected to show up on the menu. Some owners complained because they had to cycle through all connected inputs. I don't know what previous Mitsubishi DLP sets were like.

This year the Samsung HLS sets now require an input to be on for it to be selected. Some of you probably know that this has been a problem for the Toshiba A1 HD-DVD player. It will be interesting to know if the Toshiba HD-DVD player has the same problem with the Mitsubishi, and it will also be interesting to see how long it takes Toshiba to get their firmware code in step.

Quote:


Blacks were deep but shadow detail was lacking.

Better shadow detail is one of the major benefits of good ISF calibration. If Mitusbishi provides good calibration capability in their service menu it shouldn't be a problem getting outstanding performance from these sets.

Sounds like a great set.
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post #113 of 9416 Old 06-18-2006, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by tranzixter View Post

Doesnt the Mits wheel have 1 more color segment then the Samsung? I would think that would bring it closer to the 14.4 KRPM from 10KRPM since the segments effectively turn faster.

The Samsung seven element (2R, 2G, 2B, 1DG) wheels are 10.8 K RPM. The new five element wheel is ~14+K RPM. It's hard to tell how fast the Mistsubishi wheel will need to be since each of it's color segments is a different color.
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post #114 of 9416 Old 06-18-2006, 12:59 AM
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Which of the images has the RBE in it?
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post #115 of 9416 Old 06-18-2006, 01:05 AM
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Originally Posted by (Evan) View Post

Which of the images has the RBE in it?

You won't see the effect in pictures. It's an eye / brain thing.
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post #116 of 9416 Old 06-18-2006, 05:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lipcrkr View Post

Looks like it's 10 + rpm, i remember reading this a while back. I was considering the WD 52631 but shadow detail is a must for me since i watch lots of movies (HBO, Showtime, etc.) I like the fact there is no noise since this is the reason i eliminated the Sammy 88 series. I have never seen a rainbow in the store but i heard that people that didn't do see them at home in a darker enviroment. Perhaps some calibration may increase shadow detail?

The 732 series and the 831 series have the Dark Detailer for increased shadow detail and contrast so if you're picky, I would recommend those sets as the price difference from the 731 to the 732 shouldn't be all that much...
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post #117 of 9416 Old 06-18-2006, 05:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tranzixter View Post

this is really a tremendous help pharm.

The shadow detail: I wish they would publish the contrast ratio. Samsung is showing 10,000/1. Maybe onthe 732 models with the iris feature they will publish it as it will then compare more favorably.

Doesnt the Mits wheel have 1 more color segment then the Samsung? I would think that would bring it closer to the 14.4 KRPM from 10KRPM since the segments effectively turn faster.

Its troubling you see RBE. has anyone seen RBE on the Samsungs?

Even with that you seem so happy with the set to recommend taking back or cancelling Samsung order. So then the RBE isnt so bad for you then?

thanks for the inputs again!

No, RBE is bad enough that it may warrant a return. I had LASIK eye surgery so my eye sight is awesome and when you combine that with RBE, I think it's even worse

Mits has a 6 segment color wheel. Too bad that Mits set with the lasers isn't coming out soon, that would probably solve my problem.
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post #118 of 9416 Old 06-18-2006, 05:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsk View Post

Alright guys, screenshots up. You can view them in slideshow but if you want the originals (Bigger) just use the dropdown to download them.

THanks pbm for throwing this review and all the info together, really helping a lot of people out:
http://www.box.net/public/6k56rcuvbg

(NOTE: The link I posted before is invalid, I updated it with this new one and this includes *all* the pictures so far)

Thanks for taking care of that for us. Everyone appreciates it
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post #119 of 9416 Old 06-18-2006, 05:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lipcrkr View Post

Looks like it's 10 + rpm, i remember reading this a while back. I was considering the WD 52631 but shadow detail is a must for me since i watch lots of movies (HBO, Showtime, etc.) I like the fact there is no noise since this is the reason i eliminated the Sammy 88 series. I have never seen a rainbow in the store but i heard that people that didn't do see them at home in a darker enviroment. Perhaps some calibration may increase shadow detail?

I bought a 50" Toshiba for my basement about two months ago - my first DLP. Read all about the rainbows, but still haven't seen one on this set. Admittedly, I don't watch that much TV on it (kids do), but I have watched several DVD movies and some TV (SD and HD) in a very dark environment. I wonder if RBE is set specific? I am looking to replace my 64" Pioneer CRT in my great room and can't wait to see the 73732.

Great review Pharm. Exactly what we were waiting for. Thanks for the pics too.
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post #120 of 9416 Old 06-18-2006, 05:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bslep View Post

I bought a 50" Toshiba for my basement about two months ago - my first DLP. Read all about the rainbows, but still haven't seen one on this set. Admittedly, I don't watch that much TV on it (kids do), but I have watched several DVD movies and some TV (SD and HD) in a very dark environment. I wonder if RBE is set specific? I am looking to replace my 64" Pioneer CRT in my great room and can't wait to see the 73732.

Great review Pharm. Exactly what we were waiting for. Thanks for the pics too.

I really doubt RBE is set specific, but what do I know? All I can say is that I never have seen it in a store, even when looking for it and I didn't see it on this TV until I got it delivered. If you don't see RBE then enjoy that fact and don't worry about it. I feel that you probably either see it or you don't. If you don't, congrats!

I strongly recommend this set for reasons mentioned my review. I think the 732 series is the "sweet spot" b/c you add the Dark Detailer and a few other features as opposed to the 731 series for not much of a price hike.
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