2007 Mitsubishi WD-XX73X and XX831 Owner's Thread - Page 97 - AVS Forum
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post #2881 of 9416 Old 09-09-2006, 07:28 PM
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I went to Magnolia (Emeryville, CA) this afternoon (PDT,) in order to finalize the arrangements to have my KDS-60A2000 swapped for a WD-65831, and in order to spend some quality time reviewing the Mitsubishi 732s against the competition.

My new WD-65831 will be delivered on Sunday, September 17. I'll be the first to get one from that store.

When I arrived, the power had just been restored after an outage. It was overcast in the East Bay, and traffic had been unusually bad getting there from northern Marin County. A new WD-65732 was just being set up on a stand, right next to a 60A2000, an HLS-7187W and a WD-73732 (which I'm told had been there for a few days already.) Perfect set up for a side-by-side shoot out.

All the TV's were connected to DirectTV over the same feed (component.) They got me all the remotes, and I sat down to tweak. First, I configured the A2000 the way I prefer, made some adjustments to account for the different lighting conditions, and proceeded to try to make the other TVs match the A2000 as closely as they were able (without using the service menu, obviously.)

After I was done, all the salesmen, and most of the customers who took the time to evaluate the TVs, commented on how similar the TVs I'd tweaked all looked, and how much better they looked than the other TV's I hadn't tweaked. The salesman joked they should hire me to calibrate their sets.

The salesmen, and the customers who stated a preference, unanimously preferred the WD-65732 over all the others--including the WD-73732. Personally, I felt the A2000 was better in some ways, and for some scenes, whereas the WD-65732 was better in other ways, and for other scenes. I'll have more to say on that later.

I spent 2.5 hours comparing the sets. I tried many variations in the settings, and watched everything from Sunrise Earth to a replay of the Space Shuttle launch.

Everyone thought the HLS-7187W was in last place. But for those who haven't heard, it is only fair to remark that the professional calibrators who frequent AVS Forum all claim that, after a professional ISF calibration, the HLS-xx87s produce the best picture, based on how well objective measurement shows they conform to SMPTE standards.

As to the difference between the 6-color wheel 65732 and the 3-color wheel 73732, the 65732 had the better, more accurate color. Other than that, there wasn't enough difference to matter. Whether the difference in color would be sufficient to be the decding factor between the two, I wasn't able to form a firm opinion. I think you'll just have to see it for yourself. And even that may not help, especially if you really value the larger screen size. It's far from a "night and day" difference, even though the difference is evident in a sid-by-side comparsion. I'm just not sure you'd notice once you got the set home.

The best way to describe the difference between the A2000 and the 65732 is to compare it to the difference between looking at a scene using sunglasses versus your bare eyes. The Sony screens have the same effect as shaded, polarized glass. As a result, colors on the Sony don't appear quite right, and whites and grays look like they've been dimmed.

The polarized/shaded screen does improve contrast. It also adds a depthy, 3-D effect. But that comes at a price. Even so, the 65732 would still have more depth, blacker blacks and better shadow detail in some scenes, although in other scenes the Sony would beat it. I conclude that the new screen of the 831s should match the depthy, 3-D look of the Sonys in a wider variety of situations (quite possibly for all cases)--although hopefully with less color distortion and dimming.

I'm sold on this year's Mitsubishis--even without considering Green Blobs, the extra 5" of diagonal screen size, and the firewire support offered by the Mitsubishis. The 65732 has better color accuracy, is sharper, shows more detail, can be made brighter, and can be made more contrasty.

And I didn't see any rainbows (of course, I never have, although I've now seen a demonstration of what they look like, constructed for those who don't see them, so I now know just what to look for.)

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post #2882 of 9416 Old 09-09-2006, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhan View Post

Hi jerastan

Are you replacing the 62mx196 with the 65831? If so, why?

Yes. It has a BEUTIFUL picture, but.....

I want the 1080p inputs for the future. ( I know, I know, but I'll feel better )
The DVI would be great for my Mac HTPC.
My Tosh has a bit too much glare for me.
My last Tosh went tits up after 1.5 years. ( this is the replacement from the store)

a hole in the roof, or a 300 pound dead man in my yard. neither are good.
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post #2883 of 9416 Old 09-09-2006, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by kdaniel View Post

Has anyone found the 65-831 in the Los Angeles Area?

Not yet. My local Magnolia isn't getting them in till the 22nd. Meanwhile, people are already watching these at home. I thought i lived in Southern California not Nome, Alaska.
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post #2884 of 9416 Old 09-09-2006, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by longshot View Post

Not forgotten. Just busy. I'll post more later tonight. Tweakings and settings totally different on 831 from 731. For example the picture in Natural mode with the HCS is dull and washed out. On brilliant it comes too life. Just the opposite on the 731. Brilliant is torch mode.

Watched Sahara last night on HD DVD via HDMI. Lots of bright desert scenes. I saw no SSE and it was clearly evident on the 731. Absolutely beautiful. Tonight I'll watch Texas/Ohio State and try the beginning of Master and Commander on upconverted dvd. This will give everyone a better idea of how the 831 handles fast action sports and dark shadow scenes.

Glad to see others getting their sets.

That sux. Natural mode is the only mode i would use. Like Custom on the A2000. Not sure i want to watch in torch mode because of the screen. Sounds like the 732 series may garner the better picture after calibration.
So what Iris setting is Brilliant mode?
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post #2885 of 9416 Old 09-09-2006, 08:19 PM
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Ohio state wins!! sweet game.

looked great on my TV. Though I noticed, that since the blacks were not an issue, i prefered the game in brilliant, were with EVERYTHING else, I prefered natural.

What's your choice today?

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post #2886 of 9416 Old 09-09-2006, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sourcery View Post

I went to Magnolia (Emeryville, CA) this afternoon (PDT,) in order to finalize the arrangements to have my KDS-60A2000 swapped for a WD-65831, and in order to spend some quality time reviewing the Mitsubishi 732s against the competition.

Wow! Thanks sourcery for spending the time to tweak, do the comparison and post the results!

If the 65732 looked that good, I can't wait for my 57831!

My 57731 (returned) looked fantastic as far as PQ/Color, but I'm picky when it comes to shadow detail and besides, the remote (and it's warranty replacement) didn't work as advertised. I did keep it for 30 days and had 2 service visits to try and get the remote working (see posts here).

I'm in SAC and am still waiting for an ETA on the 57831.
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post #2887 of 9416 Old 09-09-2006, 08:23 PM
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i've only got a minute, but i wanted to correct something. i believe that the Natural setting is by far the best place to start even for your first adjustments. i think a lot of people may even find the perfect settings for their tvs just from some minor adjustments from the natural settings. with the DFI on, i changed the mode to natural and pretty much maxed out the contrast and lowered the brightness just a bit. that turned the docs on discoveryHD into the kind of 3 dimensional images you get on plasmas. i've been looking at all of these sets for a year now and i haven't seen any tv put out anything near what i was seeing tonight. i'm amazed. i can't believe it's a mitsubishi. and i'm very, very happy that i didn't chose the sony.

i'll try to get back after my wife goes to bed. i've got sin city so i'll try to throw that in shortly.
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post #2888 of 9416 Old 09-09-2006, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by preludejtstyle View Post

Ohio state wins!! sweet game.

looked great on my TV. Though I noticed, that since the blacks were not an issue, i prefered the game in brilliant, were with EVERYTHING else, I prefered natural.

OK here's what i don't understand, if the Iris setting is determined by the mode, and you prefer watching one thing in Brilliant, and another in Natural, does this mean you have to keep changing the settings depending on what you watch? I know each input has memory settings but the mode doesn't right? If i'm flipping channels between the game (if it's lets say in brilliant) and a movie (which looks better in natural) what exactly is happening?
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post #2889 of 9416 Old 09-09-2006, 08:37 PM
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just how good is the 65732?
i am interested in this tv.
how good is the PQ in HTHANKS
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post #2890 of 9416 Old 09-09-2006, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by domingos1965 View Post

just how good is the 65732?
i am interested in this tv.
how good is the PQ in HTHANKS

I don't have a 65732 and am not sure what you mean by "HTHANKS"
Check sourcery's post just up a little on this page.
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post #2891 of 9416 Old 09-09-2006, 08:46 PM
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[quote=sourcery]I went to Magnolia (Emeryville, CA) this afternoon (PDT,) in order to finalize the arrangements to have my KDS-60A2000 swapped for a WD-65831, and in order to spend some quality time reviewing the Mitsubishi 732s against the competition.

My new WD-65831 will be delivered on Sunday, September 17. I'll be the first to get one from that store.

When I arrived, the power had just been restored after an outage. It was overcast in the East Bay, and traffic had been unusually bad getting there from northern Marin County. A new WD-65732 was just being set up on a stand, right next to a 60A2000, an HLS-7187W and a WD-73732 (which I'm told had been there for a few days already.) Perfect set up for a side-by-side shoot out.

All the TV's were connected to DirectTV over the same feed (component.) They got me all the remotes, and I sat down to tweak. First, I configured the A2000 the way I prefer, made some adjustments to account for the different lighting conditions, and proceeded to try to make the other TVs match the A2000 as closely as they were able (without using the service menu, obviously.)

After I was done, all the salesmen, and most of the customers who took the time to evaluate the TVs, commented on how similar the TVs I'd tweaked all looked, and how much better they looked than the other TV's I hadn't tweaked. The salesman joked they should hire me to calibrate their sets.

The salesmen, and the customers who stated a preference, unanimously preferred the WD-65732 over all the others--including the WD-73732. Personally, I felt the A2000 was better in some ways, and for some scenes, whereas the WD-65732 was better in other ways, and for other scenes. I'll have more to say on that later.

I spent 2.5 hours comparing the sets. I tried many variations in the settings, and watched everything from Sunrise Earth to a replay of the Space Shuttle launch.

Everyone thought the HLS-7187W was in last place. But for those who haven't heard, it is only fair to remark that the professional calibrators who frequent AVS Forum all claim that, after a professional ISF calibration, the HLS-xx87s produce the best picture, based on how well objective measurement shows they conform to SMPTE standards.

As to the difference between the 6-color wheel 65732 and the 3-color wheel 73732, the 65732 had the better, more accurate color. Other than that, there wasn't enough difference to matter. Whether the difference in color would be sufficient to be the decding factor between the two, I wasn't able to form a firm opinion. I think you'll just have to see it for yourself. And even that may not help, especially if you really value the larger screen size. It's far from a "night and day" difference, even though the difference is evident in a sid-by-side comparsion. I'm just not sure you'd notice once you got the set home.

The best way to describe the difference between the A2000 and the 65732 is to compare it to the difference between looking at a scene using sunglasses versus your bare eyes. The Sony screens have the same effect as shaded, polarized glass. As a result, colors on the Sony don't appear quite right, and whites and grays look like they've been dimmed.

The polarized/shaded screen does improve contrast. It also adds a depthy, 3-D effect. But that comes at a price. Even so, the 65732 would still have more depth, blacker blacks and better shadow detail in some scenes, although in other scenes the Sony would beat it. I conclude that the new screen of the 831s should match the depthy, 3-D look of the Sonys in a wider variety of situations (quite possibly for all cases)--although hopefully with less color distortion and dimming.

I'm sold on this year's Mitsubishis--even without considering Green Blobs, the extra 5" of diagonal screen size, and the firewire support offered by the Mitsubishis. The 65732 has better color accuracy, is sharper, shows more detail, can be made brighter, and can be made more contrasty.

And I didn't see any rainbows (of course, I never have, although I've now seen a demonstration of what they look like, constructed for those who don't see them, so I now know just what to look for.)



SOURCERY

how good is the 65732?
do u like it?
does it have a shar picture in HD?

THANKS
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post #2892 of 9416 Old 09-09-2006, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by domingos1965 View Post

SOURCERY

how good is the 65732?
do u like it?
does it have a shar picture in HD?

THANKS

The 65732 is, overall, the equivalent of the A2000 in terms of PQ. It beats the A2000 in features and screen size. And there is no (known) risk of the 65732 ever developing the infamous Green Blob (I sure hope it's not contagious from one brand to the next!)

That means, all things considered, I judge the 65732 to be the best rear-projection set I have yet seen. I have not yet seen a WD-xx831, nor a KDS-RxxXBR2, nor an ISF-calibrated HLS-xx87, so the relative rankings may be changing over the next weeks.

And yes, the 65732 is remarkably sharp. It's the sharpest RPTV I've ever seen--although it's not so much sharper than the A2000 that you would easily be able to tell the difference without doing a side-by-side comparison.

I strongly counsel that you should make your own final judgements, based on your own critical viewing of sets, after having configured their settings to your liking. You should only use the opinions of others as guides to determine which sets deserve your time and effort to evaluate them.

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post #2893 of 9416 Old 09-09-2006, 08:55 PM
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Just want to say thanks to you all. I went down and picked up a 65831 today, got what I thought was a great price and am playing with it now. Got lucky and they had one left in stock, had them load it in the back of my P/U and was on my way.

You all's input made it easier to choose and now am lookng forward to your setup tips.
Thanks again.

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post #2894 of 9416 Old 09-09-2006, 09:21 PM
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I just hit one-call and noticed the Mitsubishi's (731 & 732) had a special price. Then I hit CC. The 57" was $200 off then 10% off. The 65" was $300 off then 10% off. The $200/$300 was consistent with 1call.

*** I think Mitsubishi just dropped the 57" MSRP down $200 and the 65" down $300 ***
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post #2895 of 9416 Old 09-09-2006, 09:31 PM
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[quote=domingos1965]
Quote:
Originally Posted by sourcery View Post

But for those who haven't heard, it is only fair to remark that the professional calibrators who frequent AVS Forum all claim that, after a professional ISF calibration, the HLS-xx87s produce the best picture, based on how well objective measurement shows they conform to SMPTE standards.

Not the "BEST" picture, but rather the most "ACCURATE" picture according to SMPTE specs. The 831 series looks much better OTA than my HLS-6188 did professionaly calibrated. Just my opinion.
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post #2896 of 9416 Old 09-09-2006, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sourcery View Post

The 65732 is, overall, the equivalent of the A2000 in terms of PQ. It beats the A2000 in features and screen size. And there is no (known) risk of the 65732 ever developing the infamous Green Blob (I sure hope it's not contagious from one brand to the next!)

That means, all things considered, I judge the 65732 to be the best rear-projection set I have yet seen. I have not yet seen a WD-xx831, nor a KDS-RxxXBR2, nor an ISF-calibrated HLS-xx87, so the relative rankings may be changing over the next weeks.

And yes, the 65732 is remarkably sharp. It's the sharpest RPTV I've ever seen--although it's not so much sharper than the A2000 that you would easily be able to tell the difference without doing a side-by-side comparison.

I strongly counsel that you should make your own final judgements, based on your own critical viewing of sets, after having configured their settings to your liking. You should only use the opinions of others as guides to determine which sets deserve your time and effort to evaluate them.

With all due respect to Sourcery ... IMHO humble opinion, the Mist 732 has better PQ than the A2000. I've seen it both side by side in HD and SD. There's a review on the A2000 that just came out that didn't speak so highly of this set. I have been looking forward to seeing the A2000 for a long time and was very disappointed in its PQ.
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post #2897 of 9416 Old 09-09-2006, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by jnelson2000 View Post

Not the "BEST" picture, but rather the most "ACCURATE" picture according to SMPTE specs. The 831 series looks much better OTA than my HLS-6188 did professionaly calibrated. Just my opinion.

Actually, the intent of my phrasing, "best picture, based on..." was to qualify "best" according to the evaluation criteria specified in the following dependent clause. In other words, I meant "best according to a specified set of evaluation criteria--specifically, the SMPTE standards." So I think we are actually in violent agreement.

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post #2898 of 9416 Old 09-09-2006, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RudyMeister View Post

With all due respect to Sourcery ... IMHO humble opinion, the Mist 732 has better PQ than the A2000. I've seen it both side by side in HD and SD. There's a review on the A2000 that just came out that didn't speak so highly of this set. I have been looking forward to seeing the A2000 for a long time and was very disappointed in its PQ.

Will the real A2000 please stand up?

One certainly does get the impression that not everyone is seeing the same A2000. Or not everyone is evaluating it according to the same standards. Or not everyone is configuring it to the same standard.

I agree that the 65732 beats the A2000 in many respects--even when considering just the PQ. But the A2000 sometimes provides a more depthy, 3D look, although it also sometimes loses that battle. The 732, although much better than the 731 in this regard, isn't quite as "liquid" in its look as the SXRDs. The Deep Field Imager seems to be more subtle and sophisticted in its effect than the Sony "Black Corrector." Considering only PQ (and not other issues,) I'd be hard pressed to choose between them.

Who knows why our opinion differs? Could be we put different weights on different aspects of the picture, or that we configured the sets differently, or that the lighting conditions were different, or that the A2000 you saw was a lemon. Consider the fact that there are those who've returned their first A2000 for another, and have reported clear differences in PQ between the sets.

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post #2899 of 9416 Old 09-09-2006, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sourcery View Post

Actually, the intent of my phrasing, "best picture, based on..." was to qualify "best" according to the evaluation criteria specified in the following dependent clause. In other words, I meant "best according to a specified set of evaluation criteria--specifically, the SMPTE standards." So I think we are actually in violent agreement.

agreeded. But the smudges and flimsy chassis on the HLS Sammy's also add to the negative side of things.
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post #2900 of 9416 Old 09-09-2006, 10:00 PM
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Any 831 mits in Canada??
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post #2901 of 9416 Old 09-09-2006, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by jnelson2000 View Post

...the smudges and flimsy chassis on the HLS Sammy's also add to the negative side of things.

They certainly do. Of course, some people would rather avoid having to deal with smudges or blobs at all, while others would rather get their preferred "look," and deal with any defects by returning or repairing the set. Different strokes for different folks.

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post #2902 of 9416 Old 09-09-2006, 10:39 PM
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For sure the 731/732 are great TVs. I've spent time viewing them in the store with dedicated HD feeds (Mits demo material off of hard drive device @ 1080i) and have been suitable impressed (much better than last years models). I'm looking forward to viewing the 832 next week. But, unfortunately, these sets probably aren't going to work with me because I see rainbows easily on them.
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post #2903 of 9416 Old 09-09-2006, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerastan View Post

I'm waiting on delivery of my 65831 and have a quick question for those of you that have your sets already. I've got my Bose center speaker on top of my Tosh 62mx196 for now. it's not perfect, but it works. Is the top of the 831 flat, or is it angled back or down? It's not a wide speaker by any means, but it just needs to be flat.
Thanks!

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post #2904 of 9416 Old 09-09-2006, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by disgruntled1 View Post

But, unfortunately, these sets probably aren't going to work with me because I see rainbows easily on them.

Which is why it's important to have viable alternatives to DLP-based rear projection sets.

Easily seeing rainbows on DLP-based TVs is like being diabetic. Not fun, I'm sure.

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post #2905 of 9416 Old 09-09-2006, 11:15 PM
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Wow.... everyone is getting their 831's and I have yet to even see a 732 here in Central NJ, let alone an 831. All of the dealers that carry the Diamond line just keep saying " any day now". Hell, I just want to at least see a 732 !

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post #2906 of 9416 Old 09-09-2006, 11:28 PM
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Does anyone know of dealers carrying the 831 in NYC? The best I could come up with so far is a blank stare! You would think I had just asked for a new warp drive...no, wait...they would have heard of that!

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post #2907 of 9416 Old 09-09-2006, 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by TerriB View Post

Any observations on SD would be greatly appreciated. Especially A2000 vs 65831. We have the option of exchanging our A2000 and we are leaning toward the 65831. Watching football today in SD...the picture is BAD!! We have Dish VIP622 so no locals in HD and too far away from the station for OTA.

SD on the 732 performs better then my Sony 53" XBR tube RPTV. And that say s something!
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post #2908 of 9416 Old 09-09-2006, 11:44 PM
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Anyone know of any chain store sale or specials coming up for the 732 series?
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post #2909 of 9416 Old 09-09-2006, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by ninthdragon View Post

Does anyone know of dealers carrying the 831 in NYC? The best I could come up with so far is a blank stare! You would think I had just asked for a new warp drive...no, wait...they would have heard of that!

Same situation as here in Central NJ. None of the dealers even around the city are talking 831 except for Electronics Expo in Paramus. My favorite Diamond dealer, PC Richard says that it isn't even in there computer as of now.

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post #2910 of 9416 Old 09-10-2006, 01:11 AM
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Sorry to ruin your day, but 'calibration' has little to do with seeing RBE on a DLP. I can see it in dark rooms more than bright ones though, and lowering brightness on the set helps a little but by no means will eliminate it. Also the SAME picture was being fed to an SXRD, and I had no trouble at all looking at it on that set. I don't think you understand what causes rainbow effect at all. It is caused when some people's eyes are fast enough to catch the color wheel making one color at a time. This is a great test to verify if a particular person is likely to be bothered or not. Why do people get so defensive about this issue anyhow? Most people won't have an issue with DLP, but if are like me, you just have to move on to another technology.


Yep, me too. But how many people will go to the trouble to find out if they're sensitive before buying one. If you are interested in finding out if you're sensitive to RBE, play Sin City(the tourture test for RBE) and see if you see yellow and blue vertical lines with left to right on screen movement.

Too bad as otherwise, I think the Samsung HLS and by extention the Mits DLPs have some of the best picture quality available at fairly reasonable prices.

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