Don't dump your CRT RPTV! - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 12739 Old 11-07-2006, 09:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mr. 568 View Post

Excellent thread. Last week I saw the Sony A2000, which is the strongest contenter to replace my Pioneer Elite - but only after it dies completely. The picture is still more film-like than the newer TVs.


Get your optics cleaned and it will look like new again. Get it calibrated and you will never want to part with it.


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post #452 of 12739 Old 11-07-2006, 09:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mmcguire View Post

Are you sure they actually replaced it??? Reminds me of that commercial where the guy turns down the first deal and throws it in the trash stating he never takes the first deal. The salesman takes it out of the trash and gives it back to him and he says.. GREAT..lol. That's real suspicious... i'd ask for another and state same issue.


Check serial numbers on all sets concerned if you can. Perhaps you got lucky and it is on your sales receipt.


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post #453 of 12739 Old 11-07-2006, 09:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Coach Gibbs View Post


Delievery guy hit the auto focus like 2 minutes after it was turned on too, not sure that was a good thing. I guess I should have kept the other TV since the same issue exists and the case on the replacement is a little rougher looking than the 1st one.

NO convergence should ever be done till after the set warms up for at least 45 minutes, tho you may need to do it anyway in the interim, just to be having it halfway coherent during that time.

Do it again after it's warmed up.


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post #454 of 12739 Old 11-07-2006, 09:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fettastic View Post

I was seriously considering selling my Toshiba 65H83 for $1500.00. I've got it all tweaked out and it looks fantastic. Basically I was going to put that money towards the new Toshiba 72" DLP or the Sony A2000 60" SXRD. Both look really great. Both are also about $4,000.00.

I bought my 65H83 for $2500.00 2 1/2 years ago including delivery and a 3 year warrenty.

I've got the e-focus, m-focus and convergence pretty much spot-on and it looks phenominal. I feel really stupid for even considering selling it, but it is an itch I want to scratch. Last night I rewatched The Bourne Supremacy on HD DVD and actually said out loud. "What the hell is wrong with me? This looks fantastic!"


It's been building up dust on your optics for years due to the HV. All CRT RPTVs use 30KV of high voltage, turning the insides of your set into a giant ionizer, turning your optics into powerful dust magnets.

Get your optics professionally cleaned and see if you still itch.


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post #455 of 12739 Old 11-07-2006, 09:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Fettastic View Post

I also want to say that one of the reasons I upgraded to the Toshiba from my old Panny 47" was the "Touch Focus" that I thought would free me from convergence forever. It's a scam. You STILL have to adjust it all by hand. The TF button is sort of a place holder to which you can save your adjustments. It doesn't work very good though and you will have to continually readjust convergence.


Whenever I calibrate anything with an autoconverge feature, I do a final pass and after that I do NOT hit that button again. And I suggest that the owner not do so, either, until the pic has drifted off so much that he has to.

Some owners actually disco the wiring to that button!

Yes, it's a scam, and some of the Sony models had no other means to do convergence! There WERE no crosshairs to finely dial it in! Once it drifted off - as they always will, over the weeks and months, even with repeated touches of that button - a tech had to be called in to redo it statically.

Manual convergence is the only way to fly.


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post #456 of 12739 Old 11-07-2006, 09:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atari View Post

I got the impression that RP CRT and video gaming didn't mix. Isn't burn in a big issue here?


Screenburn is defined as uneven phosphor aging. It is due to fixed images, and ONLY fixed images. Like black sidebars and t/b bars. PIP boxes with borders. Pong games with fixed goal bars.

Some games have fixed images like borders, score boxes and other grids. Some do not.

Fixed images and high contrast are the only things that will hurt CRT RPTVs. Games with full screen action and no fixed images do NOT present any problems to CRT RPTVs.

People on the XBOX thread where they love their Hitachi CRT RPTVs, LOVE their Hitachi RPTVs!


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post #457 of 12739 Old 11-07-2006, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

Get your optics cleaned and it will look like new again. Get it calibrated and you will never want to part with it.


Mr Bob

I'm sure I will get flamed, but I'm not sure I can agree with this. I personally have a 51SWX20B Hitachi which was considered about as good as a 51" RPTV could get a few years ago (without going into double the price Pioneer Elite territory). My TV was professionally ISF calibrated about 18 months ago and gets very limited use. Nonetheless I constantly have to go in and manually adjust convergence and I've had to compensate slightly for slightly less brightness as the TV has gotten older.

Additionally the TV sits in a brightly lit family room that I have to close all the shades in just to get the room dark enough for good viewing without turning the contrast up to torch mode and burning out the image details.

Compare this to my friends SXRD XBR1 which had a fantastic out of the box picture with very little tweaking. One run through with video essentials and his set looks outstanding, even in a brightly lit room. Watched the Broncos/Steelers game at his house on Sunday and truly felt envious of the PQ he was getting, especially since his set doesn't require a $500 check to the ISF guy every year to keep it looking its best.

I'm sorry to be a naysayer in this excellent thread, but fixed panel is only going to get better and better as time goes on. Additionally easy laptop based calibration tools are going to make it far more common for J6P to get very good results that once programmed in will be good for years unless the source changes.
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post #458 of 12739 Old 11-07-2006, 12:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

I'm sure I will get flamed, but I'm not sure I can agree with this. I personally have a 51SWX20B Hitachi which was considered about as good as a 51" RPTV could get a few years ago (without going into double the price Pioneer Elite territory). My TV was professionally ISF calibrated about 18 months ago and gets very limited use. Nonetheless I constantly have to go in and manually adjust convergence and I've had to compensate slightly for slightly less brightness as the TV has gotten older.

Additionally the TV sits in a brightly lit family room that I have to close all the shades in just to get the room dark enough for good viewing without turning the contrast up to torch mode and burning out the image details.

Compare this to my friends SXRD XBR1 which had a fantastic out of the box picture with very little tweaking. One run through with video essentials and his set looks outstanding, even in a brightly lit room. Watched the Broncos/Steelers game at his house on Sunday and truly felt envious of the PQ he was getting, especially since his set doesn't require a $500 check to the ISF guy every year to keep it looking its best.

I'm sorry to be a naysayer in this excellent thread, but fixed panel is only going to get better and better as time goes on. Additionally easy laptop based calibration tools are going to make it far more common for J6P to get very good results that once programmed in will be good for years unless the source changes.


Were your optics cleaned when it was calibrated? Very few calibrators recognize the importance of a comprehensive WET cleaning technique. Many just "dust" the lenses off with a dry cloth very carefully and call it good. The sets done by them remain bleary looking. Sets done by me become brilliant looking again, and with any set over 3 years old, it is a night and day difference. I have before and after photos I show prospective customers, and their jaws drop from with the differences they see. Happens over and over again, every time I show them.

And very few calibrators have critical mass on all the ins and outs of CRT RPTV. Was your cal a stem to stern fullscale/fullservice cal, including all the image structure aspects crucial to CRT? Or just the typical ISF cal, which includes grayscale, luminance and optimizing of user settings, but does not touch on all those exacting image structure aspects, like optics cleaning, focusing, geometry and convergence?


Hitachi is famous for not allowing all changes to "stick" with every pass of your convergence. I usually have to do at least 5 passes for a Hit to eventually "capture" all my conv changes.

And before a couple of years ago, Hits would not allow any external grids to be sent in for convergence. So we were limited to the overly hot, overly fat grid lines in their internally gen'd grids. Until they were capable of allowing extrernally gen'd grids like the nice, thin mid-light level AVIA grids, and the nice, thin mid-light level Accupel HD grids, even that was not enough to get a really fine pic out of a Hitachi. I usually had to stop MOST of the way there, because their memories would continually change everything I would do, each time memorized to ROM.


The light issue is valid. All CRT RPTVs need darkened environments to look their best. FPTVs actually get double-stacked to obtain adequate light OP on the bigger screens, or in non-darkened environments.

But remember, so does movie film, at the local mall movie theater. The ideal CRT home theater has exactly the same lighting as the local movie theater. We never had any problem with that until the advent of higher light sources in home theater.


As 1080p proliferates, yes it will finally take the place of everything else, including CRT. But it is still expensive, much more so than buying CRT RPTV new, and far more expensive than shelling out $500-1000 initially and then half that again every 2-5 years. But optics cleaning can be done by the DIYer easily enough, and full calibration rarely needs to be done over again, stem to stern. A redo at half price every 2-3 years is all I would expect would be necessary, with maybe a fine convergence tweak and regular optics cleaning done every year for good measure, at a couple of hundred max, if you're REALLY nit picky, like I am. Most would be happy with all that every 2-3 years, making the upkeep maybe a hundred a year, maybe only every 3 years. Matches or beats buying a new bulb for DLP, LCOS, SXRD etc. for $3-500 every few years, and is definitely not out of line for ongoing maintenance on a multi-thousand dollar unit.

Your post has merit, but right now CRT is still the deal of the century, and until they all die out, can still be the lowest price way to go for some time to come. And under lighting conditions that are the same as in a real movie theater, they accomplish this while still maintaining the efficacy of a brilliant and super-exact picture at all times, having been fully capable of 1080 since day one. All at light levels no lower than those of movie film.

All formats have their personal considerations, with fixed pixel having their fair share, and CRT is certainly no exception. But it still ranks super-high in my book.


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post #459 of 12739 Old 11-07-2006, 01:13 PM
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Fair enough and I do agree that when my CRT set was optimally calibrated it looked quite good. My ISF technician cleaned the mirrors and the guns but did not do any kind of "wet" cleaning. He also put the darkening fabric inside the cabinet to reduce light leakage and reflections and removed the glare screen. He also had a specially printed grid that he used to set the convergence and "save" it to the set's memory so that it would be the default convergence grid for any future adjustments. The rest of his time was spent doing grayscale/color adjustments.

My biggest beef with CRT based technology is probably related to the mechanical limitations about having to make periodic tweaks to convergence and of course the issue with trying to watch a movie/football game, etc, in a room that is well lit.

I don't doubt that if you have one of these monsters in an appropriately lit room and keep it well calibrated that it can beat the pants off of the digital technology. However, for some users like myself there is a certain point where "conveniance" (call it laziness) of having proper convergence, etc, trumps the better PQ that is attainable with CRT.
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post #460 of 12739 Old 11-07-2006, 01:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

Fair enough and I do agree that when my CRT set was optimally calibrated it looked quite good. My ISF technician cleaned the mirrors and the guns but did not do any kind of "wet" cleaning. He also put the darkening fabric inside the cabinet to reduce light leakage and reflections and removed the glare screen. He also had a specially printed grid that he used to set the convergence and "save" it to the set's memory so that it would be the default convergence grid for any future adjustments. The rest of his time was spent doing grayscale/color adjustments.

My biggest beef with CRT based technology is probably related to the mechanical limitations about having to make periodic tweaks to convergence and of course the issue with trying to watch a movie/football game, etc, in a room that is well lit.

I don't doubt that if you have one of these monsters in an appropriately lit room and keep it well calibrated that it can beat the pants off of the digital technology. However, for some users like myself there is a certain point where "conveniance" (call it laziness) of having proper convergence, etc, trumps the better PQ that is attainable with CRT.


I can live with that.

Explains why your pic keeps getting darker, tho. You NEED a WET technique professional grade optics cleaning, like in my cals, to even be in the ballpark of what your set is capable of, as we speak.

Too bad it was a Hitachi, too. I rarely need to even do static convergence on my year 2000 65" Panny, which only takes around 20 seconds when it is necessary. Much less the dynamic. I haven't redone the dynamic sm conv on mine for 2 years, and the pic is still enthralling at all times. I even moved 3/4 of a mile and up and down the truck ramp and my porch's threshold, and didn't need to reconverge.


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post #461 of 12739 Old 11-07-2006, 01:18 PM
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One additional thing to point out;

When I looked into getting an ISF calibration done it was a huge ordeal. Typically you were scheduled for calibration months ahead of time and the calibrator would only visit your city if he could do a certain number of calibrations there. Also, in addition to the cost of the calibration it was expected that all parties would split the cost of hotel, etc, for the calibrator.

While ISF calibrators provide a very valuable service, it is exactly this kind of "pain in the ass" experience of having to schedule a calibration, take time away from work, pay extra $$ for it, etc, that is driving people to fixed pixel displays. I guess when it comes down to it some of us are just not picky enough to want to deal with the headaches to squeeze the most possible out of our aging sets.
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post #462 of 12739 Old 11-07-2006, 01:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

One additional thing to point out;

When I looked into getting an ISF calibration done it was a huge ordeal. Typically you were scheduled for calibration months ahead of time and the calibrator would only visit your city if he could do a certain number of calibrations there. Also, in addition to the cost of the calibration it was expected that all parties would split the cost of hotel, etc, for the calibrator.

While ISF calibrators provide a very valuable service, it is exactly this kind of "pain in the ass" experience of having to schedule a calibration, take time away from work, pay extra $$ for it, etc, that is driving people to fixed pixel displays. I guess when it comes down to it some of us are just not picky enough to want to deal with the headaches to squeeze the most possible out of our aging sets.


No truer words...



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post #463 of 12739 Old 11-07-2006, 01:48 PM
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Mr Bob,

I love your post very much. It's quite true that when our RPTV is calibrated, it's jaw dropping. I have a Mitsubishi WS48313. I always watch high definition recorded by my MythTV. Everytime I watch HD, I always tell myself, WOW! Honestly!

I have a screenshot here but my camera isn't really that great but it's still nice.

http://www.4290greenfieldlanehome.co...-hdtv/167_6783

Great post!!!!
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post #464 of 12739 Old 11-07-2006, 01:53 PM
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Mr Bob,

I'm very interested in doing my own optic cleaning but how exactly is that done like me?

Thanks,

Neil
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post #465 of 12739 Old 11-07-2006, 10:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by v1rtu0s1ty View Post

Mr Bob,

I love your post very much. It's quite true that when our RPTV is calibrated, it's jaw dropping. I have a Mitsubishi WS48313. I always watch high definition recorded by my MythTV. Everytime I watch HD, I always tell myself, WOW! Honestly!

I have a screenshot here but my camera isn't really that great but it's still nice.

http://www.4290greenfieldlanehome.co...-hdtv/167_6783

Great post!!!!


Great shot. Is that from CSI: Miami?


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post #466 of 12739 Old 11-07-2006, 10:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by v1rtu0s1ty View Post

Mr Bob,

I'm very interested in doing my own optic cleaning but how exactly is that done like me?

Thanks,

Neil


Here's something from my archives:



My optics cleaning technique is to suspend ALL the gritty particulates that have built up over the years in liquid before attempting to do ANYTHING with them. Lenses are usually made of plastic, and are extremely susceptible to being scratched. Even glass lenses can be scratched.

High voltage attracts the smallest of particulates to your optics, including smoke, and it is VERY IMPORTANT not to scratch your optics.

It is also important not to allow any of the liquid to go down into the space between the edge of the lens and the lens barrel. If it does, it will cause the inner lenses to fog up. There are usually 4 lenses in a stack, in each lens pack. 3 guesses as to why I know that...

So when you send your spray to the optics, you DIVE, DIVE, DIVE with your aborbent material to the lowest part of the lens surface, to make sure that doesn't happen - that the liquid doesn't penetrate to the lower levels of the stack, to the inner lenses.

The best stuff I've found for wetting the surface is an aerosol, because it foams up and doesn't run. It's called Sprayway. I also use non-ammoniated Windex, or Glass Plus, and very very carefully. Non-ammoniated because of the first surface mirrors used in HDreadys. Don't want to be mixing aluminum with ammonia.

Once the mist has penetrated the contaminants and lifted the grit off the surface, a careful swipe in one direction only will get the critical mass of grit off the surface, to one side of the lens. A rolling motion as you do so, like a streetsweeper, is best and will very cleanly remove the bad stuff.

Usually takes several very careful swipes, all in the same direction, to gather and remove all the particulates - and you're done. Then one more very light cleaning swipe -

It is better to leave trace streaks than to rub till the surface is clean. Rubbing is VERBOTEN! Doing so will "scuff" the plastic with thousands of permanent streaks, which you will then rub harder and harder only to find out they don't come out, and you've just exacerbated the situation gravely. 3 guesses as to how I found out about THAT one...


I use pure wood fiber paper towels - not shop towels, which contain lanolin and will NEVER get your mirror clean - and the wetting materials mentioned above. On the outer lenses and their rears, the mirror, and the inner CRT coolant covers, where you remove the lenses to get to them.

This method has been doing it for me - and very pristinely - for years and years and years.

It's all in the wrist.


Mr Bob





Later:


Some further notes -


When you check ANY of the optics for contaminants, shoot your flashlight at the lens surface FROM THE SIDE. It never looks that bad when you hit it head-on - but Lordy, when you shoot it from the side, MAN, that's dirty...

I usually do just a quick bump from the back of one of my fingers - no more than 3/8" long - to the surface, just to see if that bump turns clear black, in the middle of the gray dust. If it is dirty, it does. If not - if that surface was black and remains black after bumping it with the back of my finger - I may just leave that surface alone.

On the lenses facing up, often to make my point in front of the client, I wet one finger - don't want to DRYRUB any gritty particulates - and draw a happy face in the middle. Viewed from the front at an oblique angle, with the flashlight hitting it from the side, that usually does the trick, when that happy face jumps off the surface at you, revealing how clear your optics are SUPPOSED to be...


If you are removing and going under the lenses, be sure and check the rear surface of the lens pack - the one the becomes exposed when you remove the lenspack, whose surface faces the CRT. It is usually full of smoke, and responds the same way to the "touch" test mentioned above.

When you shoot the Windex in there, be sure and clean the outer surfaces of overspray, before cleaning the lens itself. If you don't - if you just leave it - its moisture is trapped and will eventually fog everything up in there, after you have put things back together.

3 guesses as to how I found out about THAT one...

If you do it after cleaning the surfaces in question, more lint - and other new contaminants - fall onto the surface you just cleaned, than if it is the other way around.


I have found that the actual coolant covers themselves are usually plastic, tho I have seen glass ones - very expensive to do it that way - on Runcos and Pioneer Elites. You can tell by looking at the edge. If it is plastic, you won't really see that edge, it will be inside where the coolant is and not available to your view.

If it is glass, you will see the curvature end, and straight flat glass will go to the edge of the circular chamber, usually just over 1/4" in all directions.


I just completed this protocol on a 6 year old Runco 770 at Harbin Hot Springs last week, and a 9 year old Pioneer PRO-119 last night in Redwood City. The Runco had VERY thick dust on the entire lower half of its glass coolant cover, and its keeper couldn't get over how distinct and impressive the colors had become, later.

The response from the Elite owners was that they had NEVER seen it look that good, even when new. At 9 years old...


Naturally, the rest of my calibration protocol was also applied in each case, after hours of fine precision work.

But the importance of the light path remaining clear as glass in a projection system cannot be stated strongly enough. There are MANY surfaces to deal with in a projection environment, NONE of which exist in a directview environment. EACH of those surfaces needs its own individual attention.

Especially in the face of the high voltage of the CRTs, which always wants to cause floating airborne contaminants to cling to nearby surfaces over time, every microsecond the unit is on.

This is definitely an op that cannot be left to chance.


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post #467 of 12739 Old 11-07-2006, 11:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlenC View Post

The benefit of interlaced on a CRT is the every other line being displayed at one time. I have a Mits 65 and with a 1080i EOHL, I see every line. With 7 & 8 CRTs, the lines get closer together because it reaches the limit of the tube size and beam spot size. This is/could be one reason CRT RP TVs don't display native 720p, the image may soften as the spot size overlaps.


The reason CRT RPTVs no longer display 720p has to do only with money. I own the last of the breed, and it resolves 720p native just as well as it resolves 1080i native. But I asked Panny when I was at CES a couple of years ago why they didn't continue to produce units that do what mine does, and they said that the electronics needed for the higher frequencies inherent in 720p are now prohibitively expensive, now that the bottom has fallen out of the prices for CRT RPTV technology. It is really bad now, but even back then it was getting bad already.

The res of 720p is not as high as the res of 1080i, of course, and it shows that as well. But my year 2000 65" Panny with 7" guns resolves 720p just fine.


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post #468 of 12739 Old 11-08-2006, 01:22 AM
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Bob,

A year ago I cleaned my optics (CRTs and mirror) with Glass Plus. Every six months since then, I simply dust them off with a microfiber cloth. This does a very nice job. Is there any reason for me to ever use Glass Plus again? (My set is only two years old anyway.) I'm not seeing a good reason to do a "wet" cleaning again.

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post #469 of 12739 Old 11-08-2006, 01:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a_weller View Post

i know that the mitsubishi 65815 2006 model has 9" guns. does anybody know what size guns the 55815 has?


The 73" Mit has always had the 9" guns, and before just recently, all other guns in their arsenal were 7". Then the series you mention happened.

The only exception to 7" guns aside from their 73" was the 65" you mentioned, the only other series to ever have 9" guns.

The 55's have always had 7" guns.


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post #470 of 12739 Old 11-08-2006, 01:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

Bob,

A year ago I cleaned my optics (CRTs and mirror) with Glass Plus. Every six months since then, I simply dust them off with a microfiber cloth. This does a very nice job. Is there any reason for me to ever use Glass Plus again? (My set is only two years old anyway.) I'm not seeing a good reason to do a "wet" cleaning again.

That will hold you for the next year or 2. At 3 years from the wet cleaning you did a year ago you'll need to do the wet cleaning again if you want them as clean as I require, tho I am sure you can skate another year or 2 more if you really want to, without wet cleaning them again.

It's all personal preference, as to how often you do it.


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post #471 of 12739 Old 11-08-2006, 01:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Quote:


Originally Posted by AikenGhoti
I have a Pioneer Elite Pro-510HD. It has served me well, despite the annoying blue flashes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnla View Post

Those "flashes" can probably be totaly fixed with a resolder of the power supply board, to fix the cold solder joints. It's a known problem and a known fix. And in fact Pioneer is even doing the repair under warranty for some people, even though the sets are now long out of their official warranty. It's also something that if you are comfortable with electrical soldering, you can do yourself.


See this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7&page=1&pp=30

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post #472 of 12739 Old 11-08-2006, 09:43 AM
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I used to be an avid member of the "other" forum when I got my Toshiba TW56X81 back in 1999.

I've never had my set ISF calibrated, but I did spend countless hours in the service menu (mostly on that damn convergence grid) to tweak it extensively, using Avia.

I'm currently in the market for a digital TV. By far the primary reason for this is because the old CRT is an eyesore in our family room and takes up way too much space.

I agree that digital sets are still not up to par in video quality as a CRT set, but I feel that it's close enough.
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post #473 of 12739 Old 11-08-2006, 10:50 AM
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Reading this thread makes my head spin. Convergence?, Calibrators?, cleaning mirrors? TV's sure have become a troublesome breads since when I was a boy.

<<back then:
Load up in the car with your parents. Drop $500 (about $3500 dollars in today's money) on an RCA home entertainment center. Complete with 19"TV, wood cabinet, record player, and cassette deck. Take home plug in and watch for the next 20 years until you get tired of turning the channels with needle nose plyers.

I don't hang with people in the audio/visual circles and if anyone I know was to read this thread they would never buy a projection tv. However I am now starting to understand the obsession.
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post #474 of 12739 Old 11-08-2006, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MassiveAttack View Post

Reading this thread makes my head spin. Convergence?, Calibrators?, cleaning mirrors? TV's sure have become a troublesome breads since when I was a boy.

<<back then:
Load up in the car with your parents. Drop $500 (about $3500 dollars in today's money) on an RCA home entertainment center. Complete with 19"TV, wood cabinet, record player, and cassette deck. Take home plug in and watch for the next 20 years until you get tired of turning the channels with needle nose plyers.

I don't hang with people in the audio/visual circles and if anyone I know was to read this thread they would never buy a projection tv. However I am now starting to understand the obsession.

CRTs are certainly capable of great image quality that surpasses what is possible with digital sets.

On the other hand, with most digital sets you turn them on, tweak them for an hour and then can enjoy them without anything more troublesome than replacing a $250 lamp every 2-4 years depending on your useage.

As much as I admire the performance my CRT was capable of at it's "peak" I'm getting tired of chasing the performance with constant adjustments.

It might just be time for a 60" SXRD for me.
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post #475 of 12739 Old 11-08-2006, 11:44 AM
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Hi Mr Bob,

So other than the elite series what other RPTV's should one watch for in the bargain papers. Obviously your Pana 65"er. Which ones can be made to really shine, which ones do find to be the most satisfying when your finished caling them and of course have the least hassle working on. It doesn't sound like you're too big on the Sonys. Pana should have the best tubes as they make the best tubes for the crt front projectors as well. Love my Barco Cine 8 onyx.

Walter
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post #476 of 12739 Old 11-08-2006, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

See this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7&page=1&pp=30

Mr Bob


Mr Bob

I loved reading all your comments, and I definitely holding on to my CRT for another year or two. I would like to have it professionally cleaned and calibrated but I am not sure where to go. You are all the way on the west coast, but I was wondering if you knew of anyone reputable in the NJ area. I currently have a Toshiba 46H83 table top. I still think it looks great but its on two years old now and when I switched my AVR last week color seems a bit off to me (TV was moved slightly and I went from an S Video connection to a DVI connection). I think its about time to get it all cleaned out and up to speed since with the new AVR I will not be changing anything any time soon.

Thanks!
Stan
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post #477 of 12739 Old 11-08-2006, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

Great shot. Is that from CSI: Miami?


Mr Bob

Yes it is. I have another one here which I took last year, CSI. I will take more pictures. I'm thinking of capturing a close up of Niki from HEROES. Hehehe! I will also capture some nice HD shots at "Dancing with the Stars" in FOX channel.



By the way, thanks for the optic cleaning instructions on your other reply!
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post #478 of 12739 Old 11-08-2006, 01:38 PM
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Hey, Mr. Bob.

Been on this forum for a while, but my first post to this thread. I am so in agreement with you on CRT. Recently purchased my 2nd CRT HD RPTV (Hitachi 51F59). Replaced another Hitachi (43UWX10B) that needed repairs. It was fixable (convergence board/ICs fried), but I'd let the CC EW lapse and it was just more feasible $$-wise right now to get the new set on sale w/ 18 mos no interest (can't beat those CC sale promotions) than fork out $300-$400 up front for a service call/repair. Lovin the new TV, bigger (and I think a bit better) picture and HDMI-ready--unlike the old 43.

From the various opinions/critiques regarding the various HDTV technologies that get posted here, I've come to the conclusion that the CRT vs. fixed pixel debate sounds a bit familiar to me. Coming from a music backround, it's similar to the "analog vs. digital" argument that was pretty heavy a few years back. Even more specific to my own experiences as a guitar player would be "tube vs. solid state/digital" when dealing w/ guitar amplification.

Despite it's convienience, digital (or at least cd's and digital recording) back in the late '80s to late '90s did lack the "warmth" of analog (vinyl vs cd--digital vs tape). But digital audio has come a long way since it's first mainstream entry. Higher resolution digital can (at least in music recording) get so much closer to "analog warmth"--or at least properly sonically represent something "analog" that was recorded--that the argument is pretty much dead (except for those last few hangers-on). 10-15 yrs ago, I'd pretty much wanna use 2" tape to record a band (or at least bass guitar and other "warm" sounds) but now I have no worries that what I put into a digital recorder is exactly what is gonna come out.

As far as guitar amps, I still lean towards tube tech. But the current batch of digital "modeling" software and/or gear sounds so much like the "real deal" that it's near impossible to hear a difference when played back. If my trusty old Marshall decided to blow up on me at a gig or session, I could confidently fall back on my Line6 POD.

For TVs, it seems that CRT is the "tube amp" of video (not just 'cause it utilized picture tubes). LCD/DLP/LCOS/plasma----they all look great. But for a truly film-like visual experience, CRT still wins. Yes, CRT sets (esp. RPTVs) do require a bit more out of the box tweaking than other sets do (just visit a electronics big box store for proof of that) and the occasional "tune-up'---just like my old Marshall. But for those concerned with the best PQ (esp. for less $$ these days) and who don't mind doing a little upkeep once in a while, CRT is still the King!!! Eventually, other display types will come even closer to CRT's level of quality. Some of the priciest sets out there pretty much do. But for the time being, at least, it seems that dumping the old CRT is still premature. Just wish manufacturers would realize this. But for them, it's all about the bottom line.

Now, a question or two. Are there any ISF calibrators that you know of in the Fresno/Visalia/Bakersfield CA area? I know you are likely willing to travel the 3+ hrs south yourself, but I would think a more local ISF tech would be a little less pricey .

Secondly, although I'm extremely pleased with the picture I'm getting now (culled some great user and service menu settings/suggestions from the folks on the Hitachi 57F59A thread), would going thru the steps of an AVIA or DVE calibration disc really make that much of a difference? The settings I used to tweak my set were generally from other F59 owners who had used AVIA/DVE and in one case the Spyder. Only had the set for about 3 wks, so I know internal cleaning isn't an issue now (1-2 yrs away from that, I think). Only calibration software/disc I've used is the fairly limited THX Optimizer from a few of my DVDs. My user settings seem to be at acceptable levels (contrast NEVER above 43%, for example--red push tamed in service menu), but if a ISF/AVIA calibration is gonna make a truly marked difference on a brand new TV, I'd like to know. DOes AVIA have sections on grayscale adjustments? Don't know if my set even needs this (blacks do look black).

Anyway, I've rambled on far too long. Hope to hear back from you.

Thanks for all the great info here.

Money does not buy happiness. It can, however, buy you a giant boat that you can pull up alongside happiness. - David Lee Roth

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post #479 of 12739 Old 11-09-2006, 06:50 PM
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I currently have a Toshiba 42h83. I am seriously thinking about picking up a Hitachi 51f59,especially since it is going to be on sale for 699. What are your thoughts on this ? There is nothing wrong with my Toshiba, but I would like something a little bigger and have been really happy with the picture quality . I am not that impressed with many of the dlp and lcd sets I have looked at. In my opinion, the picture looks "fake" on many of these sets which is why I am seriously considering picking up another crt rptv before they are gone. Thoughts ? Advice ?
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post #480 of 12739 Old 11-09-2006, 07:26 PM
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That price for the 51 hitachi is great, good luck getting one on black friday.
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