Don't dump your CRT RPTV! - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 12787 Old 11-19-2006, 04:26 PM
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My local HHGregg has the 65F59 Hitachi 65" for $1,199 and with tax and delivery it comes to about $1,350. I have a 6 year old Toshiba 4:3 HDTV Rear Projection TV that still works fine right now, but I'm itchin' to get a new TV. The picture on this TV looks horrible in the store with the feed they were using.

I think this is a really good deal but I'm torn on what to do. I was thinking about waiting another year or two to get a Digital DLP LED TV. After reading this forum I know that the picture is top-notch, and it sounds like from what I read that SDTV looks good on this TV unlike other TV technologies. I don't know what to do and I'll probably more then likely just wait it out. Any advice on what to do?

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post #542 of 12787 Old 11-19-2006, 05:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by edjrwinnt View Post

My local HHGregg has the 65F59 Hitachi 65" for $1,199 and with tax and delivery it comes to about $1,350. I have a 6 year old Toshiba 4:3 HDTV Rear Projection TV that still works fine right now, but I'm itchin' to get a new TV. The picture on this TV looks horrible in the store with the feed they were using.

I think this is a really good deal but I'm torn on what to do. I was thinking about waiting another year or two to get a Digital DLP LED TV. After reading this forum I know that the picture is top-notch, and it sounds like from what I read that SDTV looks good on this TV unlike other TV technologies. I don't know what to do and I'll probably more then likely just wait it out. Any advice on what to do?


For that kind of money on a brand new Hit 65", which allows for converging on an externally sent-in nice thin grid rather than its own too-fat, too-hot internal grid, it's a no-brainer. Hop on that puppy and sell it later for half price, when you want the LED DLP and it is available.

My year 2000 65" Panny was originally $5000, and the Pioneer 710's, at even smaller size - 64" - were $7000.

Your Tosh is also capable of looking like new again - or better - so you should throw some money at it as well.


Any other questions?


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post #543 of 12787 Old 11-20-2006, 08:49 AM
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Speaking of selling CRT HDTV RPTVs, what works best? I have a 51" that I am going to part with and if I can't sell it quickly it's going to wind up getting donated to the VFW or something similar.
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post #544 of 12787 Old 11-20-2006, 09:13 AM
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Sad news? I started following this thread a 2-3 weeks ago because I was considering a CRT RP as offering the best bang for the buck. I did all the searching, reviews, etc and became convinced that as far as a new unit, it was either a Hitachi or Mitsubishi.

I even went to both Hitachi and Mits web sites to see specs, etc. As little as a week or so ago, the Mitsubishi site had CRT based units as a category on its Television pull down menu. Just revisited this morning and it is no longer there. Only under the archive section. Not a good sign!

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post #545 of 12787 Old 11-20-2006, 09:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marvinholland View Post

Sad news? I started following this thread a 2-3 weeks ago because I was considering a CRT RP as offering the best bang for the buck. I did all the searching, reviews, etc and became convinced that as far as a new unit, it was either a Hitachi or Mitsubishi.

I even went to both Hitachi and Mits web sites to see specs, etc. As little as a week or so ago, the Mitsubishi site had CRT based units as a category on its Television pull down menu. Just revisited this morning and it is no longer there. Only under the archive section. Not a good sign!

Marvin


The head of warranty at Mit says that Mit disco'd CRT RPTVs 2 years ago. So did the service manager at Runco. Same timeframe, 2 years ago.

They're going fast. Get one while you can.


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post #546 of 12787 Old 11-20-2006, 12:35 PM
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Yep ... I think the Hitachis are pretty much the end of the line ... and with DLP, Plasma and LCD/LCoS prices in freefall, the Hitachis' days are numbered too.
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post #547 of 12787 Old 11-20-2006, 02:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged View Post

Yep ... I think the Hitachis are pretty much the end of the line ... and with DLP, Plasma and LCD/LCoS prices in freefall, the Hitachis' days are numbered too.


Yep.



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post #548 of 12787 Old 11-20-2006, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

The head of warranty at Mit says that Mit disco'd CRT RPTVs 2 years ago. So did the service manager at Runco. Same timeframe, 2 years ago.

They're going fast. Get one while you can.


Mr Bob

If they discontinued them 2 years ago, its a little odd they show(ed) 2006 models.

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post #549 of 12787 Old 11-20-2006, 03:07 PM
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I recently purchased a hitachi 65f59a crt rear projection tv. I am still in the 100 hr. break in period, but i do want to do a calibration once its broken in. what should I ask them to do, and what should I look for when talking to the calibrator? also I am in the Bend,or area so does anybody have a recommendation for a tech in my area? I went to the image science website and got some contacts for techs but wanted someones real world experience with the guys in my area.
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post #550 of 12787 Old 11-20-2006, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuddvd View Post

I recently purchased a hitachi 65f59a crt rear projection tv. I am still in the 100 hr. break in period, but i do want to do a calibration once its broken in. what should I ask them to do, and what should I look for when talking to the calibrator? also I am in the Bend,or area so does anybody have a recommendation for a tech in my area? I went to the image science website and got some contacts for techs but wanted someones real world experience with the guys in my area.

Obviously Bob and other ISF calibration specialists are the real experts, but you definitely want them to do the following.

1. Get Grayscale spot on (6500K) and get color correctly adjusted.
2. Adjust convergence and focus to be as close as possible (it will never be perfect on any RPTV).
3. Adjust for the lighting you will most typically use when watching the set (if they adjust it while it's light outside it won't necessarily look right when you watch it in the dark).
4. Adjust all inputs you will use, including your DVD player and your cable/satellite box.
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post #551 of 12787 Old 11-20-2006, 03:40 PM
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FYI, Hitachi 51f59 this Friday at Best Buy, 699.99, go early!
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post #552 of 12787 Old 11-20-2006, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by new27 View Post

FYI, Hitachi 51f59 this Friday at Best Buy, 699.99, go early!

Anyone actually seen one in a Best Buy? I've been to 2 stores now and no CRT units at all.

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post #553 of 12787 Old 11-20-2006, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marvinholland View Post

Anyone actually seen one in a Best Buy? I've been to 2 stores now and no CRT units at all.

Here in Kansas I've seen them; however, it really doesn't matter whether the Best Buy has them in stock. The sale is limited to "Stock in warehouse only", so there's no guarantee that there will be *any* available. I'm showing up at 3am and praying that there are some around, heh. The Hitachi 51F59 is the last available CRT RPTV at Best Buy and I suspect this sale is to clear out the last of them; when they're gone, they're gone and they're not coming back. Long live plasma and LCD. (blegh)

You might also check at Sears. They also have the 51F59 for $849 on sale Friday/Saturday; you can try for a price match. I'm going to drop by the store tomorrow and see if they'll honor Best Buy's prices or not, but you might have more luck. Probably depends partially on the manager. Good luck!
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post #554 of 12787 Old 11-21-2006, 04:16 AM
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Originally Posted by marvinholland View Post

Anyone actually seen one in a Best Buy? I've been to 2 stores now and no CRT units at all.

Yeah, my CC has two 57s next to each another, our bestbuy has a 51in at the end of a row next too a DLP(that is the newest BB, closest to my house, and smallest one I've ever seen)
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post #555 of 12787 Old 11-21-2006, 07:43 AM
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Stopped by the local Conns last night. They had the 51" and 65" Hitachis on display and the 57" in the warehouse. Interestingly enough, they also had a 56" Mitsubishi. Not bad prices either. Will probably be paying them a return visit.

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post #556 of 12787 Old 11-21-2006, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuddvd View Post

I recently purchased a hitachi 65f59a crt rear projection tv. I am still in the 100 hr. break in period, but i do want to do a calibration once its broken in. what should I ask them to do, and what should I look for when talking to the calibrator? also I am in the Bend,or area so does anybody have a recommendation for a tech in my area? I went to the image science website and got some contacts for techs but wanted someones real world experience with the guys in my area.

I think you should check the forums for recommendations. As long as you turn down the contrast/picture setting to get the TV out of torch mode you can take your time choosing a tech to calibrate the set. Why not try to get the best of the best even if you need to wait a bit for a tour to come through your area- I don't think the fee will vary that much between an expert and a hack. I think that you need at least the overscan/basic geometry adjusted, service level convergence, turn off auto enhancements like SVM some of which might be only accessible in the service menu, set gray scale, fix color decoder (remove red-push), set service menu brightness and contrast etc so that the center user setting is correct. You need to make adjustments for each of your major inputs like DVD, cable box for each mode (SD/HD). Make sure that you have the TV in its permanent location before it is calibrated, moving it typically messes up at least the convergence. There are other things like electrostatic and optical focus that you could have done but you might find that those are good enough for you right out of the box (don't expect the blue gun to be sharp, a somewhat blurry blue doesn't burn the phosphor as much and you can't see blue with high accuity anyway).

- John
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post #557 of 12787 Old 11-21-2006, 11:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marvinholland View Post

If they discontinued them 2 years ago, its a little odd they show(ed) 2006 models.


Production date does not always equal marketing date. Same with car model years. My Colt was produced in '87 - says so on the door - but is listed with Dodge/Mitsubishi - and my local servicer - as an '88 model.


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post #558 of 12787 Old 11-21-2006, 11:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuddvd View Post

I recently purchased a hitachi 65f59a crt rear projection tv. I am still in the 100 hr. break in period, but i do want to do a calibration once its broken in. what should I ask them to do, and what should I look for when talking to the calibrator? also I am in the Bend,or area so does anybody have a recommendation for a tech in my area? I went to the image science website and got some contacts for techs but wanted someones real world experience with the guys in my area.


I might be going up to Portland for Xmas - haven't decided yet, but am leaning that way. Could drive to Bend for you, if you are up to paying for possibly a rental car plus the travel time. (Which of course I have to charge for, as it is lost production time. People have paid me to drive as far as 6 hours each way, when they're serious.)

You could get a few guys together who need their optics cleaned, to mitigate your share of the drivetime expenses. I would pay for the plane flight, as long as I was going up there anyway.



Mr Bob


PS - Very few techs listed at ISF website are adept - nay, even knowledgeable at all - about the image structure needs of CRT RPTVs. Like optics cleaning, focussing, geometry and convergence. Not to mention astigmatism and scheimpflug corrections, if needed.

These skills are critical to getting your images so crisp you can sit there and watch the grain of the film in the movie you are watching, which is my criteria for a getting a CRT RPTV to do all that it is capable of. And to watch the compression skittering around the screen...

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post #559 of 12787 Old 11-21-2006, 11:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

4. Adjust all inputs you will use, including your DVD player and your cable/satellite box.


This has to include all SCANRATES you will use, plus these days all input FORMATS you will use - like the relatively new ones, DVI and HDMI. They were not there when lots of guys - who would otherwise be satisfactorily equipmented up for component and RGB - were trained and bought their equipment.


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post #560 of 12787 Old 11-21-2006, 11:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marvinholland View Post

Stopped by the local Conns last night. They had the 51" and 65" Hitachis on display and the 57" in the warehouse. Interestingly enough, they also had a 56" Mitsubishi. Not bad prices either. Will probably be paying them a return visit.

Mits HDready would be 55" actually, but who's counting...

How much?


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post #561 of 12787 Old 11-21-2006, 11:47 AM
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I have a Sony KP-53HS30 and love it...I usually only have the time to watch a movie on here and there, and currently only have it hooked up to the regular DirecTV sat receiver. I'd like to upgrade to a HD receiver, but am curious to how much better it would look on my "older" HD ready set. Several guys in the neighborhood have new flat screens and HD and football looks really good. I know the TV can go to a 1080i signal...but again, just curiuos if anyone has this set in HD...or have you moved on to a more recent TV for HD watching.

Thanks

Patrick
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post #562 of 12787 Old 11-21-2006, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deconvolver View Post

I think you should check the forums for recommendations. As long as you turn down the contrast/picture setting to get the TV out of torch mode you can take your time choosing a tech to calibrate the set. Why not try to get the best of the best even if you need to wait a bit for a tour to come through your area- I don't think the fee will vary that much between an expert and a hack. I think that you need at least the overscan/basic geometry adjusted, service level convergence, turn off auto enhancements like SVM some of which might be only accessible in the service menu, set gray scale, fix color decoder (remove red-push), set service menu brightness and contrast etc so that the center user setting is correct. You need to make adjustments for each of your major inputs like DVD, cable box for each mode (SD/HD). Make sure that you have the TV in its permanent location before it is calibrated, moving it typically messes up at least the convergence. There are other things like electrostatic and optical focus that you could have done but you might find that those are good enough for you right out of the box (don't expect the blue gun to be sharp, a somewhat blurry blue doesn't burn the phosphor as much and you can't see blue with high accuity anyway).


Excellent observations. Couldn't agree more.


The angle at which your set is ultimately facing will be the determining factor as to whether the convergence is affected - I once worked on a Sony where turning it d45 caused the pix to change position.

I usually find that 2 out of the 3 lenses are out of focus OOB. That's why I came up with the Cantilever Technique. Sony is the only brand I would trust to be dead on OOB every time, as far as focusing went.

But keep in mind that refocusing your lenses changes the SIZE of the pic on that color. If one has to be changed in one direction for perfect focus on that image, another color in the other direction, you'll wind up with one color being bigger than the other, affecting your convergence. So do optical - lens - focusing BEFORE geometry/convergence.


Blue is more a fill color than a structure color, which is why blue defocusing has been a respected part of triple-gun CRTs forever, for their fringe benefit of goosing up the blues in your whites when defocused electrostatically (at the trimpots on the focus block).

These days the blue guns are much stronger, and don't really need the defocusing like they used to. You can fine tune them 100% on electrostatic focusing, which also tones down the high blue content of the whites usually found in OOB grayscales.

Just focusing your blue gun tightly, if it was defocused on purpose at the factory, is sometimes a great way to get to much more creamy whites in your grayscale - making it much closer to D6500K - instead of the searing blue-whiteness typically found in OOB grayscales.

And on lots of the fixed pixel units out there as well.


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post #563 of 12787 Old 11-21-2006, 12:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbenson1167 View Post

I have a Sony KP-53HS30 and love it...I usually only have the time to watch a movie on here and there, and currently only have it hooked up to the regular DirecTV sat receiver. I'd like to upgrade to a HD receiver, but am curious to how much better it would look on my "older" HD ready set. Several guys in the neighborhood have new flat screens and HD and football looks really good. I know the TV can go to a 1080i signal...but again, just curiuos if anyone has this set in HD...or have you moved on to a more recent TV for HD watching.

Thanks

Patrick


Dude, you haven't been enjoying HD on this set all these years??? You've been wasting it! There's a noticeable, PALPABLE difference on these sets between DVD - even upconverted 480i->1080i DVD - and true, dyed in the wool HD. Once you've seen it on yours for a full evening of viewing, you will be kicking yourself for weeks. Even Faroudja-equipped ceiling pjs with highly expensive scalers can't compete with true HD. They pass HD thru their processors UNCHANGED to the pj, and it looks better than anything before it, even video material streamlined with Faroudja-grade equipment. I have seen the forlorn looks of owners where I have demonstrated this to them.


If your contrast has been run at a reasonable videophile levels all the time you've owned it - and on Sonys the gamma is best when you are running your contrast at 2/3-3/4 up, so the internal sub contrast should come down just a bit, ideally - you have nothing to worry about. Only incessant Torch Mode will cause these sets to lose their crispness and appreciably darken over the years.

Get it fully cleaned and calibrated by me and I'll put it up against any fixed pixel set out there. Won't be as bright because of bulb-driven vs. CRT, but the contrast ratio and blacks will be better, and the pic's crispness will hold its own.

Under movie theater lighting conditions, if - like I do - that's what you use in your viewing room, it will be better than today's bulb-driven devices out there.


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post #564 of 12787 Old 11-21-2006, 07:38 PM
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Thanks for the kick in the pants Mr. Bob...call'n DirecTV tomorrow for an HD receiver upgrade.

Patrick
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post #565 of 12787 Old 11-21-2006, 10:10 PM
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Well now that the PS3 only supports 720p (no 1080i upscaling), we can all dump our useless CRT RP TVs, right?

-John

UPDATE: Good news! Sony recognised the problem, and is supposed to be working on a fix. Maybe we can hold onto the CRTs just a little long.
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post #566 of 12787 Old 11-22-2006, 01:40 AM
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Thank you everyone for the info about isf techs and what to look for. I did alot of research on this site and decided on rear projection crt mostly on Mr Bobs enthusiasm for the product and price/performance,and something to watch while waiting for the rest of the TV technologies to sort themselves out. Unfortunately i don't have any friends in the area that have Tv's that are worth calibrating so I would have to bear the cost of Mr bobs travel time alone.(most of the people i know think a 25" tv is "good enough").I will think about you proposal Mr bob am pm you if i can do it and if your going to Portland.
Ps I did turn down the contrast and some of the other settings in the user menu it does look better but from reading this site i realize its only scratching the surface.
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post #567 of 12787 Old 11-22-2006, 06:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by fuddvd View Post

Thank you everyone for the info about isf techs and what to look for. I did alot of research on this site and decided on rear projection crt mostly on Mr Bobs enthusiasm for the product and price/performance,and something to watch while waiting for the rest of the TV technologies to sort themselves out. Unfortunately i don't have any friends in the area that have Tv's that are worth calibrating so I would have to bear the cost of Mr bobs travel time alone.(most of the people i know think a 25" tv is "good enough").I will think about you proposal Mr bob am pm you if i can do it and if your going to Portland.
Ps I did turn down the contrast and some of the other settings in the user menu it does look better but from reading this site i realize its only scratching the surface.


As I said in reply to your pm, optics cleaning can be the key to having others chip in on the travel expenses, whenever I am on a cal tour, or forming a potential one.

It is a relatively innocuous expense, compared to fullscale calibration, and everyone with a CRT RPTV 3 years old or older needs it badly. It is really just routine periodic maintenance for this kind of set, like changing your oil in a car.

Your set won't grind to a halt if you don't do it, but looking at a bleary picture all the time just doesn't grab your heart strings and endear you to it, like a pristinely clean and clear one does...


Mr Bob

Robert Jones
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post #568 of 12787 Old 11-22-2006, 08:23 AM
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Mits HDready would be 55" actually, but who's counting...

How much?


Mr Bob

I PM'd you on the price. Interestingly enough it was the same as the 65" Hitachi. I may have to talk to them about that old, discontinued unit they have!

Marvin Holland
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post #569 of 12787 Old 11-22-2006, 11:03 AM
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Your set won't grind to a halt if you don't do it, but looking at a bleary picture all the time just doesn't grab your heart strings and endear you to it, like a pristinely clean and clear one does...

LOL ... the problem I have is now (post cleaning) is that I can clearly see all the hideous ghosting/edge enhancement/mosquito noise on SD (DBS) material again. ...
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post #570 of 12787 Old 11-23-2006, 01:21 PM - Thread Starter
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LOL ... the problem I have is now (post cleaning) is that I can clearly see all the hideous ghosting/edge enhancement/mosquito noise on SD (DBS) material again. ...


Ah, but the serenity you will get whenever you put on HD and see all you are SUPPOSED to see now, will make it worth having to eat all that mosquito noise...



Mr Bob

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