Don't dump your CRT RPTV! - Page 253 - AVS Forum
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post #7561 of 12552 Old 11-23-2010, 07:00 PM
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Hi guys,

Visiting the parents over the holiday and I noticed their Hitachi 57G500 looks like it needs some maintenance or repair. They haven't upgraded their satellite service to HD yet, and generally watch regular DVDs so the 4:3 aspect ratio received the majority of use.

I noticed that the sidebars that will typically be gray in 4:3 mode are off-colored or a different brightness in 16:9 watching a DVD. Some cursory research indicated that watching mainly 4:3 over the years has aged the phosphors at different rates causing the lines and discoloration in the image.

They have also never had the optics serviced which I am sure is degrading the image as well. They are going to be upgrading to HD satellite soon and I think this "non-issue" in 4:3 is going to become very obvious. I had to point it out to them when watching a regular DVD in 16:9 aspect.

My question is, does the sidebar issue sound like the "phosphor aging" and can this be fixed, or could it be something else?

Are there any other good resources for identifying everything that should be serviced? I'm also curious how much could be done w/ "DIY".

Thanks!
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post #7562 of 12552 Old 11-23-2010, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johtj View Post
My question is, does the sidebar issue sound like the "phosphor aging" and can this be fixed, or could it be something else?

Are there any other good resources for identifying everything that should be serviced? I'm also curious how much could be done w/ "DIY".

Thanks!
Yes.
No, not without replacing the 3 guns.
Not likely.

Way overdue for a cleaning; other "tweaks" are optional. However, everything you do to make the picture better will only make the aging look worse.
Here's a fairly active thread of a slightly newer model:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=790702

And here's how my 57F59A looks:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post19526231

Downloadable FREE demo discs:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475769/de...ently-authored 

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #7563 of 12552 Old 11-24-2010, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

or have a taste for the fine handling of a Mustang


yuk
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post #7564 of 12552 Old 11-25-2010, 08:45 AM
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I have another post on here but this thread seems to get alot of traffic so i am posting my question in here, sorry. Here is what is going on. I picked up a mitsubishi ws-55813 diamond for free the other day off the local craigs list. The owner said that the picture would start to roll.

I went ahead and turned it on. What is happening is that the picture sort of looks like it jitters and there is like a rolling wave/line effect to it. The picture dosent roll it looks good but there is that jittering/bounce effect. I tried variouse inputs and it is the same. When i pull up the tv menu it is affected by this also. If i switch to another input with just a blue screen there is a slight jitter, rolling affect. I pulled the back panel off and blew out the dust and did just a visual inspection but did not see anything that stood out. The colors and picture look good, no fuzzyness or anything. I have read a few other threads about this maybe caused by the 9v regulator chip. Could this be the problem. Not really sure where to start.

Thank you
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post #7565 of 12552 Old 11-26-2010, 05:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by splatee View Post

a few other threads about this maybe caused by the 9v regulator chip. Could this be the problem. Not really sure where to start.

This is the best place to start if your picture is all wavy like you describe. It is not hard to change this regulator. I did this repair a year ago and have not had a problem since. The shipping cost was way more than the actual cost for this part. It is a surface mounted IC so removing and replacing is relatively straight forward.

TV
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post #7566 of 12552 Old 11-26-2010, 06:25 AM
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I just tried to resolder it but still had no luck. At first i thought i fixed it because the picture looked good for about 30 seconds and then got all wavy again. I guess the chip heated up.

I just ordered the part from Audio Lab of Ga. Ordered 2 of them with shipping was under $10 I figured i get two of them just in case.
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post #7567 of 12552 Old 11-26-2010, 12:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloTSi97 View Post





Is it a matter of using some contact cleaner or alcohol and some q-tips to remove the residue and testing to see if the problem goes away? Or are you talking about removing surface-mounted components and replacing?

Thanks!

-Bob

Depends on whether it goes under an IC or just normal resistors etc. I usually undo one end of the affected components and clean under them with alcohol and either a qtip or paper towels. Paper towels are a lot more absorbent than qtips.

Then I resolder that one end back in place and try it out.

If it's gone under one of those ICs with copious numbers of legs, I give up right there.

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post #7568 of 12552 Old 11-26-2010, 12:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post


No, not without replacing the 3 guns.

Actually a powerpoint designed to counter the aging of the center section relative to the less-burned sidebars areas can be created and played until the 2 sections - the inner sec vs. the sidebars sec's - are the same age again.

b

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post #7569 of 12552 Old 11-26-2010, 12:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verge2 View Post

yuk

Looks like I need to move up in the world!




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post #7570 of 12552 Old 11-26-2010, 12:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by splatee View Post

I just tried to resolder it but still had no luck. At first i thought i fixed it because the picture looked good for about 30 seconds and then got all wavy again. I guess the chip heated up.

I just ordered the part from Audio Lab of Ga. Ordered 2 of them with shipping was under $10 I figured i get two of them just in case.

That regulator is designed for heat. You solder its metal back straight to the board. You need a strong iron to even do it.

I would look into coolant leakage.


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post #7571 of 12552 Old 11-26-2010, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

That regulator is designed for heat. You solder its metal back straight to the board. You need a strong iron to even do it.

I would look into coolant leakage.


b

I am using a 23watt iron. I took some solder and went over the flat side of the chip on the right side. Should i be using a hotter iron? I am wondering if the solder underneath the flat part of the chip is not getting hot enough and not melting. I am afraid that i might burn the board or traces. All the reading i have done points to the 9v regulator. It has all the problems. As for coolant leakage i looked at the boards that are on the tray that i slide out and i did not see anything as far as corrosion or anything that looks like a problem.

Thank you
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post #7572 of 12552 Old 11-26-2010, 12:28 PM - Thread Starter
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DK if that iron will be hot enough. You'll know if it doesn't melt the solder properly.

It's better to use a hotter iron that keeps the component in question hot for a very short time than to use an inadequate amount of heat that requires you to keep it on the component for an extended period. Which can damage a pad or trace, and keeps the entire area hotter for a lot longer than a hotter iron would.


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post #7573 of 12552 Old 11-26-2010, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

DK if that iron will be hot enough. You'll know if it doesn't melt the solder properly.

It's better to use a hotter iron that keeps the component in question hot for a very short time than to use an inadequate amount of heat that requires you to keep it on the component for an extended period. Which can damage a pad or trace, and keeps the entire area hotter for a lot longer than a hotter iron would.


b

Went and picked up a 40watt iron at RS. I just heated up the flat side of the chip to get it hot and melt the solder underneath and then applied new solder over the top and also the right side. I checked the main boards again for any sign of leakage and corosion and did not see any.

I turned the tv on and it started the fuzzy picture. I then just let it go for a few mins and tried variouse inputs with the same results. But then after about 3 mins or so it was fine. It looked good for about 10 mins and then started again for about a min and then it has been fine since. The kids have been playing xbox on it for the last 2 hrs and it acted up just once for about a minute.

The picture looks great, i see no signs of any burn in or anything. I picked this tv up and xbox for free.

I am still going to replace the 9v regulator when i recieve it. Also are there any other things i should look for? Any good tips or tricks i can do?

Thank you
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post #7574 of 12552 Old 11-26-2010, 06:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by splatee View Post

Any good tips or tricks i can do?

Thank you

Are you serious???



Check out my website, below.



If I were there I would take a voltage reading on those legs of the existing regulator and see if any major voltage fluctuations in its output were corresponding to the phenoms you are seeing -



b

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post #7575 of 12552 Old 11-26-2010, 09:31 PM
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or have a taste for the fine handling of a Mustang
As a matter of fact... the 60s and 70s Mustang was comparable to the Masseraties and Ferraries of the time, the only diference is that the Mustang price has stayed more or less the same (considering inflation etc) while Masseraties and Ferraries prices... well you can check them out.

Just compare HP and performance... You just have to be honest with your self with out considering price. The same goes for the Corvettes.. if you go to Europe or the richest Middle East countries, just check out who owns Corvettes (and American cars for that matter), if you haven't come across one while you are visiting... hate to put it to you this way, but then... that's why you think Mustangs are YUCK...

Mustang one of the TRULY muscle American cars!!!

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post #7576 of 12552 Old 11-27-2010, 04:40 AM
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I've got a WS65315 (Mits 65") that I've had for 6 years now and its still going strong. It only has 1 DVI input, but I have a high end Denon receiver that converts everything into 1080i for the TV so it just sits on that one input. I really wanted the 73" 9 inch gun model at the time, but it was almost double the price of the 65".

But, the TV is soon to be retired to some other duty as yesterday I bought a 82" Mits DLP.

My only gripes I really had with the TV, was that I was never able to figure out how to adjust the overscan and it was pretty bad on this TV. Cut off alot of health bars and stuff on games as well as the ticker tapes on stuff like CNN/Fox. Plus I could never hook up a PC to the 1080i as it just never looked right. Oh and this was the last generation that didn't have the FCC mandated OTA HD decoders. So since stand-alone HD decoders never really took off, the only way I have watched local TV since then has been through the cheap $40 units that do not output HD.

So hopefully the DLP will finally end some of those issues.

Great TV though. Was a fantastic value 6 years ago. 65" 1080i for $2000. I bought a no name 480p 42" plasma on the same visit for the same exact price. The plasma I still have, but the picture quality has been junk from day 1. The RP-CRT picture qaulity is wonderfull, just dim.
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post #7577 of 12552 Old 11-27-2010, 09:22 AM - Thread Starter
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For a fraction of what you probably spent on the DLP you coulda found a used but well treated 73" Mit and tricked it out like I did, or had it tricked out by a pro capable of CRT work. Dimness on a CRT is simply an optics cleaning issue, which shoulda been yearly maintenance anyway, delivering excellent and powerful dynamic punch once your light path is crystal clear again, identical to when new.

Overscan can be reduced and full coherence restored to the much more accurately sized picture in 2 different ways, and for $150 or less you coulda gotten a Samsung OTA HD receiver, which is very popular in the big HD stores like Big Buy, where one tuner supplies impeccable HD to every set there. You walk in to BB or Fry's and are surrounded with gleaming, crystal clear HD, and it's all coming from that one tuner.

HDMI can be supplied to any component capable HDready - and all CRT HDreadys were component capable, with many being RGB capable as well - with the under-$200 HD Fury II, making HDMI a non-consideration for this discussion even if it had been mentioned here.

As I said in the beginning of this thread more than 4 years and 250 pages and 7000 posts ago, there's no need to buy new when the used market is rife with ageless and beautiful CRT RPTVs, which are capable of looking every bit as good as most of what's out there today, new. And fully tricked out, better than a lot of what's out there today, new.

Let me know if you want to return that DLP and do what I am talking about here.

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post #7578 of 12552 Old 11-27-2010, 11:39 AM
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I had a good conversation with Mr. Bob about my 2000 Mit 55" RPTV, and hope to get him out to Colorado to get mine to it's peak. I was thinking about a new one, but would also have to get new AV furniture to go with it. Mine has the overscan, but see how it can be adjusted in the service menu.

I am also getting a HD Fury to get my Hdmi to the tv at the suggestion of the forums. Just got a new OPPO BDP93, and this will be how I hook it up
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post #7579 of 12552 Old 11-27-2010, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by splatee View Post

Any good tips or tricks i can do?

You can teach ME how to get deals like that.
I usually end up at the OTHER end of the spectrum.
Congratulations, and enjoy.

Downloadable FREE demo discs:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475769/de...ently-authored 

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #7580 of 12552 Old 11-27-2010, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

You can teach ME how to get deals like that.
I usually end up at the OTHER end of the spectrum.
Congratulations, and enjoy.

Well i am about to purchase a 65 inch mitsubishi medallion set. The owner says that it dose not power on anymore, it just has a blinking green light. Im not sure what the model # is though. It sounds like the dreaded green light of death.

I ran Avia last night on the ws-55813 and wow what a difference it made. I can't believe how vibrant the colors are. I have a sony kdf-60xs955 and the colors do not seem to look as rich. I am tempted to go into the service menu and look at the convergance but then again i don't want to mess anything up.
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post #7581 of 12552 Old 11-27-2010, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by splatee View Post

I ran Avia last night on the ws-55813 and wow what a difference it made. I can't believe how vibrant the colors are. I have a sony kdf-60xs955 and the colors do not seem to look as rich. I am tempted to go into the service menu and look at the convergance but then again i don't want to mess anything up.

Here's another calibration disc:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19419370
Have fun.

Downloadable FREE demo discs:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475769/de...ently-authored 

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #7582 of 12552 Old 11-28-2010, 04:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by splatee View Post

Well i am about to purchase a 65 inch mitsubishi medallion set. The owner says that it dose not power on anymore, it just has a blinking green light. Im not sure what the model # is though. It sounds like the dreaded green light of death.

I ran Avia last night on the ws-55813 and wow what a difference it made. I can't believe how vibrant the colors are. I have a sony kdf-60xs955 and the colors do not seem to look as rich. I am tempted to go into the service menu and look at the convergance but then again i don't want to mess anything up.

Splattee, I sent you a PM........

Angelo
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post #7583 of 12552 Old 11-28-2010, 06:01 AM
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I went in the advanced user menu to look at the convergance. It has convergance for the red and blue. It looks like it is set properly. The instructions in the manual say to line up the + sign until it turns white. Both the "blue & red" were white so i left them alone.

Thank you
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post #7584 of 12552 Old 11-28-2010, 07:17 AM
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I am still doing further research on another tv that i can get for practically free on the local craigslist. It is a 65 inch mitsu medallion. I emailed the person selling it asking what the model # is but havent heard back. Further researching and i believe it is a WS-65819. He says when you turn it on all it does is blink. From what i have read this is casued by the caps on the DM board, but dose not seem to apply to this model beacuse it uses a different layout. Does not have a DM board? I told him i could pick it up next Friday but i do not know if i want it now. Sounds like it is a different problem and not an easy fix. Any ideas? Trying to make sure before i go and pick it up if it is even worth it.

Thank you
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post #7585 of 12552 Old 11-28-2010, 09:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CRRobert View Post

I had a good conversation with Mr. Bob about my 2000 Mit 55" RPTV, and hope to get him out to Colorado to get mine to it's peak. I was thinking about a new one, but would also have to get new AV furniture to go with it. Mine has the overscan, but see how it can be adjusted in the service menu.

I am also getting a HD Fury to get my Hdmi to the tv at the suggestion of the forums. Just got a new OPPO BDP93, and this will be how I hook it up

Remember that the HD Fury is only valuable - or even needed - for transcoding your upconverted SD DVD library to 1080i, which is done inside the Oppo - or any other good BDP - and sent out via the HDMI, which is the only way left to upconvert 480 to 1080 via a DVD player. For playing bluray discs in 1080i and for getting the signal from any STB to your set where that STB is set for outputting 1080i, nothing else is needed aside from excellent component cables.

No HD Fury is needed in that case. Component is the best way to get true HD from your source to your set for CRT RPTVs, whether you're using the Fury or not. ANY device that messes with your signal when not necessary to do so is not welcome in your signal chain. The Fury is excellent, the best there is for its properly applied purpose. But when you can go straight from your source to your set in true 1080i native, except for switching that path should be unimpeded, even by a Fury.

The best way to do overscan reduction is the shimming op, which is also readily available as part of my calibration if you decide to climb on board and join us when I get flown out there. I do it either way, but it really needs to be done, if you want the best pic from your display.

Please contact Robert and cc me, if you want to go in with him on getting me out to CO.

b

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post #7586 of 12552 Old 11-28-2010, 09:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by splatee View Post

I am still doing further research on another tv that i can get for practically free on the local craigslist. It is a 65 inch mitsu medallion. I emailed the person selling it asking what the model # is but havent heard back. Further researching and i believe it is a WS-65819. He says when you turn it on all it does is blink. From what i have read this is casued by the caps on the DM board, but dose not seem to apply to this model beacuse it uses a different layout. Does not have a DM board? I told him i could pick it up next Friday but i do not know if i want it now. Sounds like it is a different problem and not an easy fix. Any ideas? Trying to make sure before i go and pick it up if it is even worth it.

Thank you

Depending on model it can be the 4 bulged caps needing replaced, the E2P module needing to be rebuilt, or the entire DM module being replaced, with its good E2P module being transfered. PTS rebuilds the E2P module, but DK if they rebuild the DM module. You'd have to check on that. Each DM module is different per year and model, so it can be a quite specific question to ask.

I am available if you want professional guidance on this.

However, if you want to avoid what could be a convoluted and possibly expensive repair, find one that does not have that green light blinking on the front. Make sure it has no screenburn by taking an all white or all gray 100% screen-filling pattern with you, and make sure its internal CRT screen faces have not been blasted with energy by being the family baby sitter at Torch Mode for 16 hours a day.

If it passes these simple tests, it's a good buy at whatever you can get it for.

b

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post #7587 of 12552 Old 11-28-2010, 11:41 AM
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I went in the advanced user menu to look at the convergance. It has convergance for the red and blue. It looks like it is set properly. The instructions in the manual say to line up the + sign until it turns white. Both the "blue & red" were white so i left them alone.

Thank you

Ok I hooked up a hd antena to the "dtv" coax input. I noticed during a football game that the score was slight double image in the upper left corner of the screen. I am not sure how to use the convergance adjustment in the advanced menu. Do I just line up the blue and red grid lines on top of the green? It is just for the upper left side, the rest of the grid looks good.

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post #7588 of 12552 Old 11-28-2010, 01:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes. In service mode the green can also be controlled, but in user mode only red and blue can be controlled.

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post #7589 of 12552 Old 11-28-2010, 02:58 PM
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Remember that the HD Fury is only valuable - or even needed - for transcoding your upconverted SD DVD library to 1080i, which is done inside the Oppo - or any other good BDP - and sent out via the HDMI, which is the only way left to upconvert 480 to 1080 via a DVD player. For playing bluray discs in 1080i and for getting the signal from any STB to your set where that STB is set for outputting 1080i, nothing else is needed aside from excellent component cables.

No HD Fury is needed in that case. Component is the best way to get true HD from your source to your set for CRT RPTVs, whether you're using the Fury or not. ANY device that messes with your signal when not necessary to do so is not welcome in your signal chain. The Fury is excellent, the best there is for its properly applied purpose. But when you can go straight from your source to your set in true 1080i native, except for switching that path should be unimpeded, even by a Fury.

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Is there a great component video switch? I would have to switch between the OPPO, and AV receiver. Sat receiver, PS3 go through receiver currently.
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post #7590 of 12552 Old 11-29-2010, 05:26 AM - Thread Starter
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www.monoprice.com has a nifty remote controlled component switch for under $100, or you can get a simple push button one from Radio Shack for around $30 that does the yellow/red/white type composite AV switching. It is so well shielded that it works gangbusters for component as well, just match up the correct colors.

Most switchers take 4 in and put 1 out. I use a simple mechanical no-name one on my 73" Mit that I ordered online, and there's no interference or noise whatsoever, as my screenshots will attest.

The best outboard switching will not only do component video but audio also, which can be 2-RCA analog, fibre optic Toslink digital, or simple 1-RCA coaxial digital.

b

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