Don't dump your CRT RPTV! - Page 284 - AVS Forum
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post #8491 of 12616 Old 04-27-2011, 02:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

Bet my 73" looks better than yours does -



b

That isn't what SHE said! LMAO!

But seriously, you might be right, at least for now. I have to locate a new ballast, so I don't know what the pic looks like yet. And locating a ballast isn't as easy as I had anticipated either, or the ones I find I need to be a tech to get.
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post #8492 of 12616 Old 04-27-2011, 02:59 PM - Thread Starter
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If you need me to get you one, let me know -

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post #8493 of 12616 Old 04-29-2011, 09:10 AM - Thread Starter
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This was just posted by me over at the master repair thread for the Pioneers with the intermittent problems, the CRT HDready sets from 1999-2000. This would be the Elite and non-Elite models: Pioneer Elite Pro 510HD, 610HD, 710HD, and non-Elite SD532HD, 582HD, and 642HD. This would also include the Elite and non-Elites for the first half of the following year, where they were still using the same PS board. Later that year they totally redesigned that PS board and no further intermittent problems happened. That would be the Pioneer Pro 520HD, 620HD, 720HD, SD533HD, 583HD, and 643HD.

You know if it was the model with the affected PS board if you find your PS board is vertically mounted to the bulkhead of your set. In the later part of that following year with the newly designed PS board, those boards are floor mounted and don't have cold solder joint problems.

I thought I would share it here as well -

b



Forgive me, we've been very busy here so I just looked it over and the last few pages really don't cover what you need to know. You'll probably have to go back as many as 10 pages, maybe more. Just don't follow the advice in the early pages where various individual specific points are mentioned as needing attention. If they are part of the active, directly connected circuitry and have not been resoldered yet by now, they all do. Each and every affected solder joint in there needs to be resoldered, regardless of how many and how small they are. It is a long and tedious process, but what else is new?

The entire Power Supply board was compromised at the factory with solder that was too thin and those joints are giving up the ghost all over the boards now. As such with very few exceptions the entire PS board needs to be resoldered. Doing so will completely restore it and it will last indefinitely, just like the 100% performance all the other boards in there have been delivering all along. There are lots of boards in there, all of which have been performing at 100% all along and will continue to do so indefinitely.

I guarantee it for the PS board, as long as I am the one on the case for you. If anything like that happens again on your PS board, no matter how many years later, I will correct that condition again on your PS board for you, no charge. I can offer that lifetime guaranty because I know that doing so will leave me next to no work at all to do in the future on this issue, as long as I was the one who resoldered your PS board in the first place. Yes, I have resoldered that many PS boards in the last few years, whose owners are even as we speak enjoying their sets every day now, effortlessly. As I have said many times over the years, these are hardy, permanent sets. CRT - not just Pioneer, but all brands - was designed and produced in an era where things were built to last, unlike the fragile and highly disposable sets being sold new today.


BTW, I was just sent something printed on Just Answer.

Contrary to the advice of another very seasoned and experienced repair tech on Just Answer, no the PS board cannot be trusted if all you resolder are the currently affected joints, in fact doing so actually puts your set in more danger than it was in before, because it exposes your set to the much more damaging joints that go bad later. If it's in its early stages, those intermittents you are experiencing are valid warning signs because they don't usually damage your set, they just let you know something's wrong and that something definitely needs to be done before you keep using your set and exposing it to unspecified but still very real dangers. The ones that start to go bad later, since you didn't heed the warning signs or only resolder what's bad now, are the damaging ones and can take your set down hard.

So heed the warning signs! If your set is currently exhibiting the symptoms of cold solder joints on the power supply board - blue flashes, fluctuating brightness, lack of picture or sound while running or even actual shut down - STOP USING IT! Unplug it and don't allow it back up to normal operating temperature - EVEN ONCE - unless and until repaired PROPERLY. Cold solder joints start to let go and do their damage ONLY ONCE YOUR SET HAS HEATED UP thru normal operations. So don't keep your set on for more than 40 seconds from dead cold - for testing only - during the duration of this very dangerous set of circumstances, which has the power to become a potentially catastrophic event and even total your set if your finances cannot withstand the onslaught of the more serious of repair bills. Nipping it in the bud keeps your repair bills low and entirely affordable, bordering on negigible compared to what you originally paid for your set. In fact the decision to do what's necessary when in the early stages is an incredible no-brainer, all things considered.

And no, the deflection board does not need attention unless damaged by the PS board's cold solder joints. It does not develop cold solder joints on its own in the course of normal operation like the PS board does. Neither does the convergence board. None of those boards in there do, except the PS board. If your set is experiencing those dangerous intermittents, leave all the other boards alone! Concentrate ONLY on the Power Supply board, the one at the end of your set's wall power cord, the one that plugs into your wall outlet. The less messed with in there the better, esp. if you are not a trained and experienced service technician.

This is a cardinal rule for service repair technicians who do this kind of work every day, and should be heeded by everyone: always leave alone whatever can be left alone! Any time you dive into circuitry you risk opening a can of worms and suddenly having a lot more on your plate than originally intended.

So focus ONLY on the PS board in this case.



b

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post #8494 of 12616 Old 05-03-2011, 04:58 PM
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A quiet thread these last few days.

Anyone know if the WS-65315 has 7 or 9 inch tubes?

Is it a good set?

Thanks
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post #8495 of 12616 Old 05-03-2011, 05:16 PM
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Anybody scored any Craigslist killer deals lately ?
Some people just give these away........................
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post #8496 of 12616 Old 05-03-2011, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetmeck View Post

Anybody scored any Craigslist killer deals lately ?
Some people just give these away........................

Just a bunch of duds, and oddball sellers thus far.

But I'm looking. Hence my question about the WS 65315
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post #8497 of 12616 Old 05-04-2011, 10:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post

A quiet thread these last few days.

Anyone know if the WS-65315 has 7 or 9 inch tubes?

Is it a good set?

Thanks

OF COURSE it's a good set! Every set past the first year's offerings is a good set, and that first year's offerings were not bad either. If well treated, ANY Mit CRT RPTV is a good set.

DK about the gun size -

b

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post #8498 of 12616 Old 05-05-2011, 06:26 AM
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Can someone tell me what the cause of this could be? I have a mits ws-65819. I have cleaned the lenses, mirror, refocused the "focus" trimpots and did manual focus on the crt lenses. I reset the convergence and adjusted them in both 1080i and 480p modes. Now could this be a convergence problem? The tv has a few issues and i picked it up for free. Only the 1080/480i/480p input works and the sound is dead. Also the tv will not display anything in 480i mode, only 480p and 1080i.







There seems to be a ghosting effect. I have adjusted the contrast and brightness. Contrast is around 20 to 25%. I have played with the contrast up and down and there was no change. I have looked for "SVM" in the manual and there is no mention of it. I have done nothing in the service menu because i am confused in there and don't want to screw something up . I am very happy with the overall picture and this is just a bit of an annoyance because i know it shouldn't be there.

Thank you
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post #8499 of 12616 Old 05-05-2011, 06:38 AM
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Put up a pattern like this one and you'll be able to tell if its the convergence for sure. You'll see red or blue spilling outside the white lines.



If you look at the bottom right side you can see some red... something like this is what you'll be looking for.

"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."

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post #8500 of 12616 Old 05-05-2011, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by splatee View Post

Can someone tell me what the cause of this could be? I have a mits ws-65819. I have cleaned the lenses, mirror, refocused the "focus" trimpots and did manual focus on the crt lenses. I reset the convergence and adjusted them in both 1080i and 480p modes. Now could this be a convergence problem? The tv has a few issues and i picked it up for free. Only the 1080/480i/480p input works and the sound is dead. Also the tv will not display anything in 480i mode, only 480p and 1080i.







There seems to be a ghosting effect. I have adjusted the contrast and brightness. Contrast is around 20 to 25%. I have played with the contrast up and down and there was no change. I have looked for "SVM" in the manual and there is no mention of it. I have done nothing in the service menu because i am confused in there and don't want to screw something up . I am very happy with the overall picture and this is just a bit of an annoyance because i know it shouldn't be there.

Thank you

I'm not sure on RPTVs, but the pictures you show look exactly like SVM. I recently disabled SVM on my direct view CRT, and have before/after pictures here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post20279392

I notice the same problems, a bright white edge and the corners of the white squares don't touch.

Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish; and you have fed him for a lifetime
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post #8501 of 12616 Old 05-05-2011, 01:04 PM
 
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All right, I've got another question for the community:
The (potential) patient is a Mitsubishi WS-65909 Circa 2002ish. The symptoms are that is won't start up. The green light comes on and then "clicks back off after a couple seconds" (general close quote of the person's words). I read on Teclore in a few different threads that it might be some Convergence board issues, or some capacitors on the digital board.
I was wondering if the community had any suggestions as to if it might be one, the other, or neither, and what is involved in repairs either way.

Thanks.

- 2 Bunny

PS: If I do get this and fix it, is there any way to make the VGA input accept resolutions higher than 640x480? The instructions said you could only feed that into it (maybe it was just a typo?) and I couldn't believe they would waste a perfectly good VGA plug like that.
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post #8502 of 12616 Old 05-05-2011, 02:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oryan_dunn View Post
I'm not sure on RPTVs, but the pictures you show look exactly like SVM. I recently disabled SVM on my direct view CRT, and have before/after pictures here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post20279392

I notice the same problems, a bright white edge and the corners of the white squares don't touch.
This is Scan Velocity Modulation in all its glory. Something that's diminished quite a bit in HD; it's much more prevalent in SD. It's for the purpose of seeing vertical lines more clearly from a distance. Only with HD, we're capable of much finer rendition at far closer distances.

The register you're looking for is VM, in the primary service menu grouping. Its factory default is 2, which is obviously too much. I usually set it to 1, because having NONE of it going makes things too soft. I find 1 works best. Your User Sharpness should stay at midpoint, where it messes with your signal the least.

There is an advanced mod I can discuss with you that can tighten that picture up even more for you as long as your set has the correct design, where we can do it. This is for later model sets, it's not for the earlier sets. Yours is qualified for it, I am pretty sure.

Contact me directly and we can talk about it.

But for now, if the pix you sent up here are HD, then change that register - crank it down 1 peg - and I am sure that will help.

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post #8503 of 12616 Old 05-05-2011, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post
This is Scan Velocity Modulation in all its glory. Something that's diminished quite a bit in HD; it's much more prevalent in SD. It's for the purpose of seeing vertical lines more clearly from a distance. Only with HD, we're capable of much finer rendition at far closer distances.

The register you're looking for is VM, in the primary service menu grouping. Its factory default is 2, which is obviously too much. I usually set it to 1, because having NONE of it going makes things too soft. I find 1 works best. Your User Sharpness should stay at midpoint, where it messes with your signal the least.

There is an advanced mod I can discuss with you that can tighten that picture up even more for you as long as your set has the correct design, where we can do it. This is for later model sets, it's not for the earlier sets. Yours is qualified for it, I am pretty sure.

Contact me directly and we can talk about it.

But for now, if the pix you sent up here are HD, then change that register - crank it down 1 peg - and I am sure that will help.

b
No, those pics are Avia @ 480p. Here are a few from DVE @ 1080i





So i will go ahead and look through the service menu and see if i come across anything that says VM or SVM. The service manual i have does not even list anything.

Thank you
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post #8504 of 12616 Old 05-05-2011, 03:28 PM
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Ok i found "VM" setting and i changed it from 2 to 1. There was no change in the ghosting but i could tell there was a change to text.

I didn't mess with anything else in the service menu. It is like a foreign language in there. Below are the settings from the service manual. Not sure where to start there. Anything jump out below.

Video/Chroma Function
1 SCT Picture Gain Control 0~63 42 42 42 Sub Contrast
2 SBRT Sub Brightness 0~63 18 18 18 Black Level
3 SCOL Sub Color 0~15 3 2 2 Preset
4 STIN Sub Tint 0~15 6 7 7 "
5 SCON Sub Contrast 0~15 2 2 2 "
6 RDRH R-Drive (high) 0~63 42 42 42 White Balance
7 GDR G-Drive 0~63 50 50 50 Preset
8 BDRH B-Drive (high) 0~63 42 42 42 White Balance
9 CTRH R-Cutoff (high) 0~63 15 15 15 "
10 CTGH G-Cutoff (high) 0~63 50 50 50 Preset
11 CTBH B-Cutoff (high) 0~63 15 15 15 White Balance
12 RDRL R-Drive (low) 0~63 50 50 50 "
13 BDRL B-Drive (low) 0~63 25 25 25 "
14 CTRL R-Cutoff (low) 0~63 23 23 23 "
15 CTGL G-Cutoff (low) 0~63 50 50 50 "
16 CTBL B-Cutoff (low) 0~63 10 10 10 "
17 GMMA Gamma control 0~15 8 4 5 Preset
18 BRT Brightness control 0~63 31 31 31 User
19 COL Color Gain control 0~63 31 31 31 User
21 CONT Picture Gain control 0~63 42 42 42 Preset
52 VM VM level 0~3 2 2 2 "
56 CRO1 CR Offset 1 0~15 9 9 9 Cb Cr Offset
57 CBO1 CB Offset 1 0~15 10 10 10 Cb Cr Offset
68 AG1 White Aging On/Off 0∼1 0 0 0 Preset

DEFL JUNGLE Function
1 HWID Horizontal Width 0~63 "HD 38 NTSC 39 Width
2 HKEY Horizontal Keystone 0~63 "HD 31 NTSC 31 Preset
3 EWPT EW-PCC on top 0~63 "HD 26 NTSC 27 "
5 EWPB EW-PCC on bottom 0~63 "HD 26 NTSC 27 "
7 VHGT Vertical Height 0~63 "35 47 Height
8 VLIN Vertical Linearity 0~15 12 12 Preset
9 VSCN Vertical S-Correction 0~15 "HD 0 NTSC 0 "
20 VPOS Vertical Position 0~63 31 "HD 31 NTSC 0 "

Thank you
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post #8505 of 12616 Old 05-05-2011, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oryan_dunn View Post
I'm not sure on RPTVs, but the pictures you show look exactly like SVM. I recently disabled SVM on my direct view CRT, and have before/after pictures here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post20279392

I notice the same problems, a bright white edge and the corners of the white squares don't touch.
It looks just like the checkerboard pattern in this thread. I do not see any thing though on the necks of the crt yokes that are 3 wires. I will look and see if i can find anything in the service manuals.

Thank you
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post #8506 of 12616 Old 05-05-2011, 05:33 PM
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Read about how to disable the SVM circuit on the Keohi site. I found the svm board and the 3 pairs of wires going to each crt. I unplugged them but there is still no change. The text looks sharper but i still see that bleed over effect. I am now wondering if it has something to do with the convergence maybe?

Thank you
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post #8507 of 12616 Old 05-05-2011, 09:39 PM
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Any WS-65315 owner on the thread, who might know if it uses the 9 inch cathodes?

Thanks to all phosphor afficianados.
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post #8508 of 12616 Old 05-05-2011, 10:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by splatee View Post

Read about how to disable the SVM circuit on the Keohi site. I found the svm board and the 3 pairs of wires going to each crt. I unplugged them but there is still no change. The text looks sharper but i still see that bleed over effect. I am now wondering if it has something to do with the convergence maybe?

Thank you

Once you've been exposed to the crispness of true HD, you're spoiled forever. I don't think you'll improve on this without altering the signal with a DVDO or Faroudja scaler meant to correct the deficiencies of 480i/p.

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post #8509 of 12616 Old 05-06-2011, 03:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

Once you've been exposed to the crispness of true HD, you're spoiled forever. I don't think you'll improve on this without altering the signal with a DVDO or Faroudja scaler meant to correct the deficiencies of 480i/p.

b

Now that i have changed the VM settings from default #2 to #1 and have disconnected the SVM circuit would it be a good idea to go over and redo the "electronic" focus and "manual" focus of the individual crts?

Thank you
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post #8510 of 12616 Old 05-06-2011, 03:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post

Any WS-65315 owner on the thread, who might know if it uses the 9 inch cathodes?

Thanks to all phosphor afficianados.

Per the Mitsubishi service manual it has 7 inch guns.

link to service manual

http://www.service-manual.eu/model.php?id=2795
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post #8511 of 12616 Old 05-06-2011, 07:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by splatee View Post

Now that i have changed the VM settings from default #2 to #1 and have disconnected the SVM circuit would it be a good idea to go over and redo the "electronic" focus and "manual" focus of the individual crts?

Thank you

If this is a Mit and you've disco'd the SVM circuit, there is no need to alter the sm settings. They go to zero just by those coils being disco'd.

Which is not what I would do, personally. Even with HD you need some level of ee to keep from everything looking too soft. This was part of Runco's way of setting up their pj's back when CRT was king, and I agree. Get some lettering in white or black and work on it till it's crispest, optimize it. Then put up someone's face on an HD closeup where you can see their pores. Optimize that.

Don't always just turn ee all the way off, or always just turn Sharpness all the way down. Often midpoint of Sharpness is best for not having any extraneous altering of your signal going on. Up can be too altered by ee, down can be too soft by video filtering/dulling.


The focusing should always be optimized whether you're dealing with ee or not, and really has nothing to do with ee. I always use the scanlines themselves to focus upon, not lettering or anything else - I use scanlines on the 480i/p AVIA Circlehatch grid, in 480i/p so I can see the individual scanlines better, HD doesn't work anywhere nearly as well - and do my VM/ee altering in the sm later on, long after the focusing ops.

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post #8512 of 12616 Old 05-06-2011, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by splatee View Post

Per the Mitsubishi service manual it has 7 inch guns.

link to service manual

http://www.service-manual.eu/model.php?id=2795

Thanks, splatee.
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taichi4, you really should make a decision. I appreciate your being patient but this has been going on for some time now. These sets aren't getting any younger and your choices will be dwindling. My opinion is to bite the bullet and buy one and start messing around with it. There is nothing wrong with 7" guns (as Bob has said and will say again) and is the vast majority of sets available.
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post #8514 of 12616 Old 05-06-2011, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splicer010 View Post

taichi4, you really should make a decision. I appreciate your being patient but this has been going on for some time now. These sets aren't getting any younger and your choices will be dwindling. My opinion is to bite the bullet and buy one and start messing around with it. There is nothing wrong with 7" guns (as Bob has said and will say again) and is the vast majority of sets available.

With all due respect, splicer, your statement is judgmental and inappropriate. People post on a forum to freely exchange ideas, with the only proviso being that they do so courteously...which I have always done.

I have my mind on a 9 inch Mits, and since buying a set is to suit me and not you, I will pursue this course if possible. If I see late model Hitachis or Toshibas that are better than what I've seen thus far, I may get one, even with 7 inch CRTS.

And besides, there are a number of factors involved for me in making a purchase of which you are unaware.

OK?
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post #8515 of 12616 Old 05-07-2011, 07:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Dan Cerio Just pm'd me this message:



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Originally Posted by HBAngel View Post

Hey Bob,

My name is Dan Cerio and I organized a Southern California calibration tour for you back in 2007. Seems like yesterday! You did some great work on my Mits WS-65857 and it is still running smooth and producing a great picture.

However, I am taking the leap to front projection (JVC RS-40 with a 113" screen). As excited as I am for this, I am a quite sad to give up my old RPT as it still works flawlessly and has those awesome inky blacks. I also have a beautiful set of custom mahogany cabinets built especially to house these type of sets that looks really sharp. Unfortunately, we dont have the space to utilize the TV and the cabinets elsewhere in the house, so they are a casualty of the upgrade.

I would love to see the TV/Cabinets find a good home. I noticed that your "dont dump your CRT RPT" thread is still going strong so I was wondering if anyone in your socal network would be interested in taking the cabinets and the TV off my hands. I am looking for $1,500ish for both. The cabinets alone were $2,500 originally. Buyer would need to pickup. I can provide photos.

The TV was originally calibrated by Craig Miller a couple months after purchase and you tuned it up and cleaned the optics when you were out in 2007. Its been well-cared for and we have a smoke-free home. I have never had any issue with it. The outer cabinet is ding-free and the glare shield has always been in place and is still like-new.

Would appreciate any help. Was hoping to get a warm bite before posting it on Craigs list and having to deal with all the riff-raff. LOL. Appreciate your time and hope that life is treating you well.

Thanks!
Dan

Contact myself or Dan if you want to hop on this fantastic deal! Buy the cabinets for far less than he paid for them and he will be kicking in the TV for free! Will need optics cleaning by now and probably a trim-up calibration, but where else you gonna get a superb set like this that has been worked on by both Craig Miller and myself?!






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post #8516 of 12616 Old 05-07-2011, 07:53 AM
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Why you want 9 inch so bad, still won't do 1080p
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post #8517 of 12616 Old 05-07-2011, 08:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Once totally dialed in, a 9" gun sys will deliver a palpable improvement in depth to your picture over a 7" gun, whether it's on a 73" screen or a 65" screen. This allows you to sit closer to your set and still maintain the crispness, delivering a bigger size picture to get immersed in.


I would not worry about 1080p vs. i. Translation of 1080i material to 1080p carries its own potential can of worms. Watching 1080i material - which is still virtually all that is sent out by the broadcast media whether it's satellite, cable or OTA - is virtually always better on a native 1080i machine than upconverted to a 1080p machine. For that upconversion you have to trust the algorithms in your 1080p display, and some do well, and some - well "not so much" would be being generous... It's a crap shoot, with the "up"conversion usually becoming a downconversion when all is said and done.

With a native 1080i machine like a CRT RPTV, that is not a worry. No conversions necessary, either up or down. Any time you deal with conversions, the potential abounds for cans of worms being opened.

Unless you have expensive sophisticated scaling equipment, leaving it alone - straight line - is usually best.


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post #8518 of 12616 Old 05-07-2011, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verge2 View Post

Why you want 9 inch so bad, still won't do 1080p

Bob's explanation covers it.

So far, as I've driven distances to see RPTVs, I've managed to find "baby sitting models" where the CRTs have been running forever. Would a cleaning and calibration help? Undoubtedly, but it's better to find one that looks good initially. And if I can find one with 9 inch CRTs, so much the better.

I like the look of DLPs, by the way, but apparently, with all those little micromirrors moving, a certain percentage of them can fail...hence the white dots appearing on some people's sets. I hope they can work that out!
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post #8519 of 12616 Old 05-07-2011, 09:52 AM - Thread Starter
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I would not trust a "baby sitter model", no way. On 12-16 hours a day??? No thanks. The CRT sets in the ceiling projector community are guaged by the number of hours recorded on their sets conforming to the age of their CRTs, as CRTs age naturally as part of their phosphor-based design. Low hours means fresh and vibrant. High hours means darkened phosphors and an UNdynamic picture. Plus "trails" on your weakest color when you try to turn the contrast or color levels up.

When you use the best you gotta respect their limitations as well. Would you allow a Lamborghini to sub as a soccer mom's vehicle, 7 days a week?

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post #8520 of 12616 Old 05-07-2011, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post


Bob's explanation covers it.

So far, as I've driven distances to see RPTVs, I've managed to find "baby sitting models" where the CRTs have been running forever. Would a cleaning and calibration help? Undoubtedly, but it's better to find one that looks good initially. And if I can find one with 9 inch CRTs, so much the better.

I like the look of DLPs, by the way, but apparently, with all those little micromirrors moving, a certain percentage of them can fail...hence the white dots appearing on some people's sets. I hope they can work that out!

You are looking to buy a 6 or 7 year old set and you are turned away by reliability problems with dlp ?

*confused

I can't count how many 7 inch rptvs I've seen go for free, why drive all over the country trying to get marginal performance benefit?
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