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post #9121 of 13343 Old 07-23-2011, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post

So...will I only be able to achieve 480i through S-Video?

My goal is simply to be able to watch classic, non-widescreen movies in the stretched mode available in 480i or 480p on the Mits.

All of this would be easier if TW simply had more sophisticated cable boxes, with formatting options.

UPDATE: According to this link, there are S-Video cables that will pass 480p:
http://www.hdtvsupply.com/prsca48tefrs.html

480i definitely. 480p maybe. 480p via S-Video likely depends on the source box as much as the Mits... not to mention the material. Because, you should bear in mind that most of those classic, non-widescreen movies are likely encoded as interlaced anyway.

Either way, though, I think you'll be happy.
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post #9122 of 13343 Old 07-23-2011, 08:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Bunny View Post

New question here. We've been looking into the possibility of reselling a CRT RP or two on our local craiglist to make a few extra dollars, and I saw a free RCA D52W20 that would just barely fit in our vehicle based on its dimensions. Its symptoms are that it just doesn't power up. The person said he was moving it in the winter and when he plugged it back in at his home that he heard some "popping" sounds. The CL person thinks it was snow that shorted something and caused the problem during transit. Is "spontaneously not starting" a common problem with these, or is there much hope/troubleshooting path for it if we were to pick it up?

Just not starting up is the way most trouble on these sets happens. It can be due to a plethora of different things.


Quote:


Actually, SVideo is just standard Def - no 480p through it. My experience has been that SVideo is worse than composite, adding artifacts and trouble to the image. I like to avoid it at all cost.

My experience has been just the opposite. S is a cleaner, less stepped-on signal than composite, since composite requires half a dozen stages of active circuitry to mix the chrominance and luminance together so it can be sent down the same single wire/line, and then another half dozen stages to decode that intermixed signal back to chrom and lum again, which is what the set needs to work with in the first place.

On the way it picks up things like dot crawl, necessitating the need for comb filters. S never has that problem in the first place.

You can see dot crawl when 2 pastel colors are up against each other, like on the classic color bars pattern. On composite the dot crawl looks like the jacks from a ball and jacks game. On S it's silky smooth instead.



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Thanks.

- 2 Bunny

PS: Still planning on possibly trying the "Cantilever tecnique" and optics cleaning sometime this week. I know I said that last week, but I hadn't got around to it yet. I will be sure to post how it goes if I do try though.

I will be freeing up the CT video for public viewing directly, at YouTube. Thanks for the feedback on the private-only version, guys!



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post #9123 of 13343 Old 07-23-2011, 08:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalani View Post

480i definitely. 480p maybe. 480p via S-Video likely depends on the source box as much as the Mits... not to mention the material. Because, you should bear in mind that most of those classic, non-widescreen movies are likely encoded as interlaced anyway.

Either way, though, I think you'll be happy.

S is not capable of anything higher than 480i. Definitely cannot do 480p. Needs to be at least component for that.

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post #9124 of 13343 Old 07-23-2011, 08:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

Thank you.
Over and over.

Michael

You got it, dude. And thank you! If the guys here only knew what gifts you and Leo have REALLY given me...!



b

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post #9125 of 13343 Old 07-23-2011, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

S is not capable of anything higher than 480i. Definitely cannot do 480p. Needs to be at least component for that.

b

Bob. Is the ad link I posted above for a 480p S-Video cable misleading merchandising by the vendor?

If I don't use S-Video, then I'll have to use a component out splitter with my cable box, which will probably degrade the signal.

Maybe 480i is enough for my purpose...to watch classic 4:3 films in Mits' 480 stretch mode.
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post #9126 of 13343 Old 07-23-2011, 11:07 PM
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How often should I take the lens off and clean underneath as seen in this pic (stolen from Superleo's overscan thread):



I've never taken that off and cleaned underneath.

Also anyone got pics/tutorial of Scheimpfluge done on a Hitachi xxF59A?

My Home Theater/Video Gaming/HTPC/2 Channel rig (Mitsubishi, MartinLogan, Marantz, DIYMA, and others)

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post #9127 of 13343 Old 07-23-2011, 11:23 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post



My experience has been just the opposite. S is a cleaner, less stepped-on signal than composite, since composite requires half a dozen stages of active circuitry to mix the chrominance and luminance together so it can be sent down the same single wire/line, and then another half dozen stages to decode that intermixed signal back to chrom and lum again, which is what the set needs to work with in the first place.


You can see dot crawl when 2 pastel colors are up against each other, like on the classic color bars pattern. On composite the dot crawl looks like the jacks from a ball and jacks game. On S it's silky smooth instead.





I will be freeing up the CT video for public viewing directly, at YouTube. Thanks for the feedback on the private-only version, guys!



b

I absolutely agree 100% rith Bob.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

S is not capable of anything higher than 480i. Definitely cannot do 480p. Needs to be at least component for that.

b

Precisely!

Quote:
Originally Posted by |Tch0rT| View Post

How often should I take the lens off and clean underneath as seen in this pic (stolen from Superleo's overscan thread):



I've never taken that off and cleaned underneath.

Also anyone got pics/tutorial of Scheimpfluge done on a Hitachi xxF59A?

No pics but this is what is required for a THOROUGH cleaning. Just MARK how they are BEFORE you remove the lenses!!!
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post #9128 of 13343 Old 07-23-2011, 11:37 PM
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Does anyone have experience comparing the HD Furys to the Moome devices?

Is it safe to make a credit card purchase from Taiwan? Anyone done it?
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post #9129 of 13343 Old 07-24-2011, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splicer010 View Post

No pics but this is what is required for a THOROUGH cleaning. Just MARK how they are BEFORE you remove the lenses!!!

It takes something pretty big (a bug, for example) to affect the light path at this point. Don't worry about dust at this level (unless you're as anal-compulsive as, say, me), but if you look through the lens and see something sizable, it's worth eliminating.
They should only go back one way (with the mechanical focus wingnut facing front).
For Scheimpfluge adjustments, I used washers underneath the corners. Trial and error. Lots of both. Tedious.

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #9130 of 13343 Old 07-24-2011, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post

Does anyone have experience comparing the HD Furys to the Moome devices?

Is it safe to make a credit card purchase from Taiwan? Anyone done it?

I've done it (and survived to tell the tale). Your bank may charge a currency conversion fee. Call customer service to find out.

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #9131 of 13343 Old 07-24-2011, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

I've done it (and survived to tell the tale). Your bank may charge a currency conversion fee. Call customer service to find out.

Ordering from overseas makes me a bit edgy, given that there are even less regulations to protect against credit card hacking.

I guess my problem with DVI is that when future BluRay players go all digital, I'll get video but no audio!

Any opinion about Moome?
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post #9132 of 13343 Old 07-24-2011, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post


You got it, dude. And thank you! If the guys here only knew what gifts you and Leo have REALLY given me...!



b

Thank YOU Bob, it's mutual.

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post #9133 of 13343 Old 07-24-2011, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by |Tch0rT| View Post

...

Also anyone got pics/tutorial of Scheimpfluge done on a Hitachi xxF59A?

it is lots of trial an error, and what you do on one side might not be the same on the other side. When I did it I had trouble with red blooming, then reduced the washer thickness on that side.
Is it really needed? If you want to have the satisfaction on getting your tv to show the best picture possible it's a must.

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post #9134 of 13343 Old 07-24-2011, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post

Does anyone have experience comparing the HD Furys to the Moome devices?

Is it safe to make a credit card purchase from Taiwan? Anyone done it?

I bought my HDfury 3 from the HDfury web site, i think i used Pay Pal they have that option also, no problem at all very fast shipping and they respond to any troubles you have on their fourm
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post #9135 of 13343 Old 07-24-2011, 08:44 AM - Thread Starter
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It's out there now for everybody to see now on YouTube, who wants the ultimate in crispness from their CRT RPTV or front CRT display. There's more to it than just mechanical focusing, of course, but having the optical focusing completely nailed is absolutely essential for youse guys and me, and the CT is the secret to that.

Just go to www.YouTube.com, search up mrbobbigscreen, and ask for the video entitled Cantilever Technique.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yTrU6Mb1tg



b

PS - just wanted to get this up quickly this morning, noticed there's been a lot of activity overnight! Will get to that later today or tonight -


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post #9136 of 13343 Old 07-24-2011, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sideswiper View Post

I bought my HDfury 3 from the HDfury web site, i think i used Pay Pal they have that option also, no problem at all very fast shipping and they respond to any troubles you have on their fourm

What's your experience with it been?

Did you get the combo with the gamma x?

How long ago did you purchase it?

You must have a Paypal account. If one doesn't, then its a credit/debit transaction.

Thanks
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post #9137 of 13343 Old 07-24-2011, 09:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post

Bob. Is the ad link I posted above for a 480p S-Video cable misleading merchandising by the vendor?

Yes. I just sent them this message, we'll see how they respond -


"How can you be touting the benefits of your S cables in terms of 480p - OR HD, especially - when only component level cables or above can carry either? 480p is not HD and never has been. The frequencies required of 480p and 720p and 1080i/p are far above the pay grade - ie. frequency response - of S video.

This is BAD misinformation on your part, and those you are selling to think they are getting 480p and HD with using your S cables and they are not. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

Please accept my apologies if you have information that I do not, but I have been advising display owners on these subjects for years on the AVS Forum, Home Theater Spot and Home Theater Shack forums, and your published info here is decidedly incorrect, IMHO. It is very misleading, and all for the purpose of increased sales of cables that are by their very nature not up to the job.

I am sure your S cables are the best made and I would recommend them to anyone wanting their 480i material to look its best, but they cannot be used for the purposes put out here on your site.

Mr Bob
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Quote:
If I don't use S-Video, then I'll have to use a component out splitter with my cable box, which will probably degrade the signal.

Not really. I currently use a no-name passive mechanical switcher for my component sources, and the signal does just fine. I have in the past used Radio Shack passive switching boxes with no problems either, even ones that are advertised for composite video.

In both cases they are very well shielded internally in there, which is all you really have to worry about.

Quote:
Maybe 480i is enough for my purpose...to watch classic 4:3 films in Mits' 480 stretch mode.

Hopefully. And yes, S Video will be your best patchcords to use for that.

Most 480p and HD inputs are not designed in the display for aspect ratio changing, at all. Only a smattering. My last-gen ever 73" Mit only allows for sideways stretching in HD, no variable smushing or zooming or anything else. Same for the Pioneer Elites - their Natural Wide, Cinema Wide, and Zoom only work on 480i material, not on 480p or HD.

b

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post #9138 of 13343 Old 07-24-2011, 10:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splicer010 View Post


No pics but this is what is required for a THOROUGH cleaning.


Many brands have a 1/8" air gap between the CRT coolant covers and the lens barrels, meaning that dust, smoke, lint and soot - and sometimes vermin - are attracted in there to reside. Dust etc by the HV, vermin by the heat. After years, this build-up is not something that can be allowed to stay anymore. Those brands need the deeper optics cleaning.

I know the Mits HDready's don't have that air gap - they seal everything in there completely and properly - so they don't need this deeper internal cleaning. But other brands are not so well designed.

For some reason they seemed to think that cooling would be necessary, and built in that air gap. Which adds 6 additional optical surfaces - of the 28 already there, designed into every CRT RPTV - that get compromised.

On those brands, doing the deeper optics cleaning every 2 years is absolutely essential. I usually find them undone for at least 5 years, many times 10, and the difference between clean and dirty on those 10 surfaces of the 28 total is absolutely staggering. And it can all be accomplished in an afternoon.

Contact me directly if you want to know how to do it safely and often, without damaging your optics. I would not advise trying it yourself without the proper training, because those surfaces in there are plastic and extremely susceptible to being permanently scratched. Or even worse, scuffed, which is thousands of tiny scratches at a time. And NO DRY METHODS! For exactly the same reasons.

Any damage you do to your optics is permanent and irreversible.

Quote:
Just MARK how they are BEFORE you remove the lenses!!!

When you do this op, part of my professional advice is to always do just one at a time. Finish up with one completely before moving on to the next. That way you can't get the red mixed up with the green, or blue etc. Each lens has its own designated and fine tuned mechanical setting, and they are not interchangeable.

Same for the directionality of the lens itself. Turning it 90 or 180 degrees can throw your convergence off miserably. So yes, keep them as they came out, when it's time to put them back in!

b

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post #9139 of 13343 Old 07-24-2011, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

Yes. I just sent them this message, we'll see how they respond -

"How can you be touting the benefits of your S cables in terms of 480p - OR HD, especially - when only component level cables or above can carry either? 480p is not HD and never has been. The frequencies required of 480p and 720p and 1080i/p are far above the pay grade - ie. frequency response - of S video...

...Not really. I currently use a no-name passive mechanical switcher for my component sources, and the signal does just fine. I have in the past used Radio Shack passive switching boxes with no problems either, even ones that are advertised for composite video.

In both cases they are very well shielded internally in there, which is all you really have to worry about...

...Hopefully. And yes, S Video will be your best patchcords to use for that.

Most 480p and HD inputs are not designed in the display for aspect ratio changing, at all...

b

That was terrific, Bob. I only expected a response, not a salvo against "incorrect" information. Kudos to you.

And thanks for the passive switch suggestion. So all the signal goes one way or the other. Very cool.
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post #9140 of 13343 Old 07-24-2011, 10:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post

Ordering from overseas makes me a bit edgy, given that there are even less regulations to protect against credit card hacking.

I have ordered from www.dealextreme.com and had no problems at all. Usually sent from China.

Quote:
I guess my problem with DVI is that when future BluRay players go all digital, I'll get video but no audio!

Correct. Have not seen any reports as whether today's digital outputs - fiber optic and coaxial - will be phased out with component connections. If so we'll all be totally dependent on HDMI, as that will be all that's left.

Quote:
Any opinion about Moome?

It's some of the best and finest equipment available, well built and highly advanced, suitable for and in use on much higher grade - and much more expensive! - CRT and digital displays than our CRT RPTVs. I first learned about it on the Screenshot War!!!!!!!! thread, being used on Cliff's G90 double stack - twin Sony 9" gun CRT units firing onto a 10' screen, where Cliff sits his width. ie, he sits 10' away from his 10' wide screen. Not even my fully pimped out 9" gun 73" Mit can be viewed at sitting its width!

I have been in touch with Moome myself and have personally tried out 2 of their boxes, and have total respect for anything they do.

b

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post #9141 of 13343 Old 07-24-2011, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
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I have ordered from www.dealextreme.com and had no problems at all. Usually sent from China.


Correct. Have not seen any reports as whether today's digital outputs - fiber optic and coaxial - will be phased out with component connections. If so we'll all be totally dependent on HDMI, as that will be all that's left.

It's some of the best and finest equipment available, well built and highly advanced, suitable for and in use on much higher grade CRT and digital displays than our CRT RPTVs. I first learned about it on the Screenshot War!!!!!!!! thread.

I have been in touch with Moome myself and have personally tried out 2 of their boxes, and have total respect for anything they do.

b

Which Ext. Moome device would you recommend that does at least what the HD Fury 3 does?

By the way, I believe that both HD Fury (forthcoming) and future Moome boxes will have some 3D capability. I also believe, per my initial conversation with the chap at VIP, that our sets are capable of 3D active shutter.

Curiously my 65813 has a certain depth to the images, as you predicted for the 9 inch guns. I was watching Titanic on HD broadcast and Dicaprio's cigarette (after he saves Winslett) seemed to protrude from the screen. Is all of this due to color depth?

And thanks for the link!
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post #9142 of 13343 Old 07-24-2011, 10:46 AM
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Hey, Bob. Looks like dealextreme no longer sells HD Furys.

Where are Moome boxes available from, by the way?
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post #9143 of 13343 Old 07-24-2011, 11:20 AM
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I have a Mits.WS 73615 rpcrt. and I saw on the local Craig's List someone has a ColorVision Spyder 2 Pro for sale for $40.00. Would this be a usefull tool for setting up grayscale? Thanks,Rod.
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post #9144 of 13343 Old 07-24-2011, 12:10 PM
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When I think about it, the DVI option only restricts my future use (putting aside the possible image superiority HDMI to component) as far as the display's internal speakers are concerned. If I use the RPTV as display only, and route the audio through an HDMI receiver to external speakers, I should be okay.

But the whole digital only protocol is pretty thickheaded and an example of industry overreaching.
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post #9145 of 13343 Old 07-24-2011, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post

When I think about it, the DVI option only restricts my future use (putting aside the possible image superiority HDMI to component) as far as the display's internal speakers are concerned. If I use the RPTV as display only, and route the audio through an HDMI receiver to external speakers, I should be okay.

But the whole digital only protocol is pretty thickheaded and an example of industry overreaching.

Agreed.

Bear in mind, of course, that Monoprice carries inexpensive converters that split the audio out of HDMI.

Ultimately, though, simply routing all HDMI through an HDMI-equipped AVR with a built-in scaler (like my Denon 3312) and converting the output to component via HDfury as the last step before the signal hits your TV, and all is just fine, now and into the future.
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post #9146 of 13343 Old 07-24-2011, 01:00 PM
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I have a Mits.WS 73615 rpcrt. and I saw on the local Craig's List someone has a ColorVision Spyder 2 Pro for sale for $40.00. Would this be a usefull tool for setting up grayscale? Thanks,Rod.

Maybe. Problem with the Spyders seems to be quality control. You have a one in three or four chance of getting one that doesn't work, and, without a reference meter, you'd never know. And if it (or any of these relatively inexpensive meters) is more than a couple of years old, it's pretty much useless (again, unless you have a reference meter for comparison).
The Eye One has recently been discontinued. Get one now before they're all gone.
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http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457

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post #9147 of 13343 Old 07-24-2011, 01:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Which Ext. Moome device would you recommend that does at least what the HD Fury 3 does?

Moome devices do gamma bump, primarily. The conversion from HDMI to component or RGB is incidental to that, but is included all the same. Fury III does the conversion, but not the bump. Both do what they do superlatively, the best and most faithful reproduction available.

I don't know them by model number.


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By the way, I believe that both HD Fury (forthcoming) and future Moome boxes will have some 3D capability. I also believe, per my initial conversation with the chap at VIP, that our sets are capable of 3D active shutter.

Kal at Curt Palme says your device needs to be 720p capable, for that. That would not be 720p hitting your set and getting upconverted to 1080i, I would not think, because 720p is 45KHz tech while 1080i is 33KHz tech, whether upconverted from 720p or not.

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Curiously my 65813 has a certain depth to the images, as you predicted for the 9 inch guns. I was watching Titanic on HD broadcast and Dicaprio's cigarette (after he saves Winslett) seemed to protrude from the screen. Is all of this due to color depth?

And thanks for the link!

Too much color can be distracting as all getout, so I don't think so. I think it's just because you have it so well dialed in on its image structure - and those awesome 9" guns - and the colorations fall well within realism range!



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post #9148 of 13343 Old 07-24-2011, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Kalani View Post

Agreed.

Bear in mind, of course, that Monoprice carries inexpensive converters that split the audio out of HDMI.

Ultimately, though, simply routing all HDMI through an HDMI-equipped AVR with a built-in scaler (like my Denon 3312) and converting the output to component via HDfury as the last step before the signal hits your TV, and all is just fine, now and into the future.

I'm using a Monoprice HDMI to DVI connector now.

So you're saying I still need an HDFury, or a Moome, or a stiff drink? (I don't drink, but I can be forced into a glass of wine.)
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post #9149 of 13343 Old 07-24-2011, 01:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey, Bob. Looks like dealextreme no longer sells HD Furys.

I'm not sure they ever did.

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Where are Moome boxes available from, by the way?

From me. Just let me know what you want. I have a direct pipeline to Moome. Contact me directly, no pm's please -

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post #9150 of 13343 Old 07-24-2011, 01:18 PM
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I'm not sure they ever did.



From me. Just let me know what you want. I have a direct pipeline to Moome.

b

Is there a list of models somewhere, with features?

Obviously future-proofing is what interests me. Are any of his models offering HDMI 1.4? Apparently his devices include circuitry similar to HD Fury's gamma x option.

Thanks, Bob
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