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post #9151 of 12552 Old 07-24-2011, 12:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post

Hey, Bob. Looks like dealextreme no longer sells HD Furys.

I'm not sure they ever did.

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Where are Moome boxes available from, by the way?

From me. Just let me know what you want. I have a direct pipeline to Moome. Contact me directly, no pm's please -

b

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post #9152 of 12552 Old 07-24-2011, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

I'm not sure they ever did.



From me. Just let me know what you want. I have a direct pipeline to Moome.

b

Is there a list of models somewhere, with features?

Obviously future-proofing is what interests me. Are any of his models offering HDMI 1.4? Apparently his devices include circuitry similar to HD Fury's gamma x option.

Thanks, Bob
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post #9153 of 12552 Old 07-24-2011, 12:29 PM - Thread Starter
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I'll see what I can find out, but please contact me directly for models/features. The admin does not look kindly on anybody using their site directly for commercial purposes, other than the exception they seem to have made for calibrators to list their services. So keep all of this out of this thread, if you would, and contact me directly about any of this.

All I know is he leads the field in this technology, and I am sure HDMI 1.4 figures quite prominently in that. The main difference between 1.3 and 1.4 is the universal 2 way communication between source and display, and I believe some of that is already present in 1.3. But don't quote me on that, I am not authoritative on it. Am glad to have one of our intrepid readers here correct me if I am wrong -



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post #9154 of 12552 Old 07-24-2011, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

I'll see what I can find out, but please contact me directly for models/features. The admin does not look kindly on anybody using their site directly for commercial purposes, other than the exception they seem to have made for calibrators to list their services. So keep all of this out of this thread, if you would, and contact me directly about any of this.

All I know is he leads the field in this technology, and I am sure HDMI 1.4 figures quite prominently in that. The main difference between 1.3 and 1.4 is the universal 2 way communication between source and display, and I believe some of that is already present in 1.3. But don't quote me on that, I am not authoritative on it. Am glad to have one of our intrepid readers here correct me if I am wrong -



b

I'll give you a call this week.

But Moomes do the same thing as HD Fury in terms of HDMI to component, if I'm not mistaken.
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post #9155 of 12552 Old 07-24-2011, 12:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Hm, not quite. Fury outputs either component or RGB, swichable. The Moome goes out RGB only, you need a transcoder for getting that RGB output to be inputting to your display via component. So does the Gamma X, it puts out on RGB only as well.

Moome has a box that takes in HDMI and outputs to component, I had one but ran into challenges getting the pic to my screen, which turned out to be my error. Unfortunately I had already sent it back when I discovered exactly what that error was and corrected it. But I have a replacement on request from him.

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post #9156 of 12552 Old 07-24-2011, 03:04 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post
Just not starting up is the way most trouble on these sets happens. It can be due to a plethora of different things.
Oh, I remember now. I thought I remember seeing one RCA set in particular with some certain problem a lot. One guy on YouTube got so mad at it that he shot it (it didn't fix it - his might need a new screen and mirror, and maybe some black tape on the back of the set, among other things)

Anyway, about that "plethora" of things that could be wrong with it - are any of those cost effective fixes, and if so, are they easy to do?

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My experience has been just the opposite. S is a cleaner, less stepped-on signal than composite, since composite requires half a dozen stages of active circuitry to mix the chrominance and luminance together so it can be sent down the same single wire/line, and then another half dozen stages to decode that intermixed signal back to chrom and lum again, which is what the set needs to work with in the first place.

On the way it picks up things like dot crawl, necessitating the need for comb filters. S never has that problem in the first place.

You can see dot crawl when 2 pastel colors are up against each other, like on the classic color bars pattern. On composite the dot crawl looks like the jacks from a ball and jacks game. On S it's silky smooth instead.
Interesting. It could've been that I had a crappy cable.

An observation about the whole "480p over component thing" - some laptops have a modified SVideo port that has several extra pins that can pass component video. Although obviously, like you said, native standard SVideo can't. I did see this one writeup where somebody ran USB or VGA through an Ethernet cable, which could be a good way of extending a certain kind of cable if you've got a different kind with enough pins.

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I will be freeing up the CT video for public viewing directly, at YouTube. Thanks for the feedback on the private-only version, guys!



b
Oh, I finally had a better look at that yesterday. I noticed that somehow a single line spiderweb had formed on the mirror (even though that is all closed in), and I did my best to clean things up. It didn't look that bad from square 1 though to be honest. Another thing I noticed was that like in the post last page, I noticed some dust and a very small dead bug under the top lens surface. Is it worth it to unscrew those and get the crap out of the next surface down just to get rid of a bug?

In other "news", I also gave the cantilever technique a try. It's a little harder than it sounds (the screen is still as cumbersome as ever to hold - good thing they invented clips to hold it on the set), but I plowed through anyway. The red was very sharp to begin with before I even took the screen off (I still checked it anyway). The blue was just plain blurry, but I couldn't make it look any better pulling away the screen or pushing on it so I just left it alone. The green I adjusted slightly to the left, and it seems like it made a little improvement. All in all, I think for the price we're off to a good start with the adjustments we've already tried.

I do have a question on convergence though: When you're converging the red against the green, is there a way to make the blue disappear (and the other way around) beside taking off the screen and covering the lens? If there was, do you think it would help? Maybe it's just me, but sometimes the blue and green tend to "melt together" when I'm converging the red. It still turns out all right in the end, but still...

Also, is there a tweak on my level that I could do to reduce or eliminate the "Red Push"? I've heard of the little modules you can use on the Pr for the component inputs, but that doesn't help for the standard def stuff.

Thanks for the advice on the focusing and cleaning so far though - I think from square zero to now, the set does look much better than "stock".

- 2 Bunny
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post #9157 of 12552 Old 07-24-2011, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post
Hm, not quite. Fury outputs either component or RGB, swichable. The Moome goes out RGB only, you need a transcoder for getting that RGB output to be inputting to your display via component. So does the Gamma X, it puts out on RGB only as well.

Moome has a box that takes in HDMI and outputs to component, I had one but ran into challenges getting the pic to my screen, which turned out to be my error. Unfortunately I had already sent it back when I discovered exactly what that error was and corrected it. But I have a replacement on request from him.

b
The latter is apparently what I need to take my 65813 into the future. I hope you'll share your experience with it when you get it.

Many thanks.

And hats off to you, 2Bunny, for being the consummate, hands on, do-it your-selfer.
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post #9158 of 12552 Old 07-25-2011, 04:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

Hm, not quite. Fury outputs either component or RGB, swichable. The Moome goes out RGB only, you need a transcoder for getting that RGB output to be inputting to your display via component. So does the Gamma X, it puts out on RGB only as well.

Moome has a box that takes in HDMI and outputs to component, I had one but ran into challenges getting the pic to my screen, which turned out to be my error. Unfortunately I had already sent it back when I discovered exactly what that error was and corrected it. But I have a replacement on request from him.

b

You could use something like a Box 1020 or a TC1600 instead of the Gamma X and output component.
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post #9159 of 12552 Old 07-25-2011, 05:17 AM
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Hi all. Just saw the Toshiba 65HX81 RPTV I sold my brother two years ago and noticed that there is a slightly redder cast to the center portion of the screen which just happens to be the area that is filled when you have a 4X3 program on the screen. The strange thing is that the outer portions of the screen where the black bars would be looks fine tonally when an HD program is on the screen, no red cast color looks right on. This can't be IR, is it, since is should be the bars that would be darker, right? Or am I confused? Could it be a problem with the red gun? Appreciate any help. Posted a pic of the problem and you can clearly see what I'm talking about on the bottom left. It's the same on both sides the pic is a bit dark. thanks.
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LL

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post #9160 of 12552 Old 07-25-2011, 09:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 2 Bunny View Post

Oh, I remember now. I thought I remember seeing one RCA set in particular with some certain problem a lot. One guy on YouTube got so mad at it that he shot it (it didn't fix it - his might need a new screen and mirror, and maybe some black tape on the back of the set, among other things)

Anyway, about that "plethora" of things that could be wrong with it - are any of those cost effective fixes, and if so, are they easy to do?

No idea. Have very little experience with RCA.


Quote:


Another thing I noticed was that like in the post last page, I noticed some dust and a very small dead bug under the top lens surface. Is it worth it to unscrew those and get the crap out of the next surface down just to get rid of a bug?

Depends on how big a bug it is. Everything is magnified by the lens being there. That said, one owner of mine had a yellow patch near the middle of his screen before I removed the dead bug on the blue coolant cover that was causing it, as part of my optics cleaning process. After that it was clean white all over the screen.

Quote:


I do have a question on convergence though: When you're converging the red against the green, is there a way to make the blue disappear (and the other way around) beside taking off the screen and covering the lens? If there was, do you think it would help? Maybe it's just me, but sometimes the blue and green tend to "melt together" when I'm converging the red. It still turns out all right in the end, but still...

Depends on the brand and its design. On Pioneers, each of the colors can be made to disappear in the service menu completely, leaving the rest still showing. On a Mit the non-used color gets diminished but never completely disappears. Nor does the internal grid. You just have to ignore it and concentrate on the masterful grid you are sending in there - the one with fine mid-light-level lines, at average light levels. Unlike the internal grid, which is way too hot and way to thick for any high precision convergence work. And being of different light level from your actual video content, it actually lies to you and causes you to slightly misdo your convergence. Only same light level grids vs. content will produce same light level success, grids vs. content.

Quote:


Also, is there a tweak on my level that I could do to reduce or eliminate the "Red Push"? I've heard of the little modules you can use on the Pr for the component inputs, but that doesn't help for the standard def stuff.

The attenuator add-on to the Pr line only works with component, not on SD. With SD you're stuck with it unless you have PerfectColor or can use the I2C Interface.

Quote:


Thanks for the advice on the focusing and cleaning so far though - I think from square zero to now, the set does look much better than "stock".

- 2 Bunny

Cool -



b

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post #9161 of 12552 Old 07-25-2011, 09:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by subavision212 View Post

Hi all. Just saw the Toshiba 65HX81 RPTV I sold my brother two years ago and noticed that there is a slightly redder cast to the center portion of the screen which just happens to be the area that is filled when you have a 4X3 program on the screen. The strange thing is that the outer portions of the screen where the black bars would be looks fine tonally when an HD program is on the screen, no red cast color looks right on. This can't be IR, is it, since is should be the bars that would be darker, right? Or am I confused? Could it be a problem with the red gun? Appreciate any help. Posted a pic of the problem and you can clearly see what I'm talking about on the bottom left. It's the same on both sides the pic is a bit dark. thanks.
Attached Thumbnails

4x3 screenburn in action, obviously with black side bars, which didn't age nearly as much as the center 4x3 area.

The green gun's 4x3 footprint aged faster than the red and blue, which is not uncommon. If it hasn't gotten too bad on the red and blue, you could replace just your green gun and be home free.

b

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post #9162 of 12552 Old 07-25-2011, 09:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Socio View Post

You could use something like a Box 1020 or a TC1600 instead of the Gamma X and output component.

Yes. Any feedback on how well they do with the video content, how good those processors are and how sealed the electronics inside are from the influences of the outside, like 60 cycle hum and the various wifi and cordless frequencies so prevalent in homes these days? I know there's no question about any of that with the Moome stuff.

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post #9163 of 12552 Old 07-25-2011, 09:20 AM
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Yes. Any feedback on how well they do with the video content, how good those processors are and how sealed the electronics inside are from the influences of the outside, like 60 cycle hum and the various wifi and cordless frequencies so prevalent in homes these days? I know there's no question about any of that with the Moome stuff.

b

It will be interesting to see what your experience with his equivalent to the Fury is.

I've only heard good things about his technology.
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post #9164 of 12552 Old 07-25-2011, 09:34 AM - Thread Starter
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I can already tell you that. I have used his RGB only box, along with an RGB->component converter.

His equipment is stellar, and so is the HD Fury equipment. Have not seen anything better, on both counts.

He has nothing equivalent to the Fury, to my knowledge. His devices are based primarily on the gamma bump, and the fact that conversions similar to the Fury are also excellent is just an added bonus.

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post #9165 of 12552 Old 07-25-2011, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

4x3 screenburn in action, obviously with black side bars, which didn't age nearly as much as the center 4x3 area.

The green gun's 4x3 footprint aged faster than the red and blue, which is not uncommon. If it hasn't gotten too bad on the red and blue, you could replace just your green gun and be home free.

b

Thanks for this info. I guess I need to let my brother know that eventually he may have to have a qualified ISF tech (Gregg Loewen did the initial calibration) come in and give the display the once over (I'm assuming most would still be able to handle RPTVs) and hopefully only have to replace the green gun. Any idea what the cost could be? Do you or your reps work in Ohio?

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post #9166 of 12552 Old 07-25-2011, 10:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Gregg is an excellent calibrator, he taught me a few things about calibrating Panasonics that I had not thought of, back when I saw him at CES years ago and I could practice on with my 65" Panny CRT.

However, a lot of the former CRT techs are now totally into doing the new flat panels, which don't take nearly as long to do, so finding one who is both qualified to do work on CRT tech and available and willing - that might be a stretch. Just having someone do an ISF calibration is not nearly the answer - ISF teaches absolutely nothing about CRT tech to their students.

Finding one who is both a calibrator and service tech qualified to replace your green gun and then set everything up again from scratch, doing a full tilt but also from scratch calibration, due to the center gun being replaced - that would definitely be a stretch. We are few and far between.

If you want to be assured of the finest CRT calibration available, fly me in and be done with it. I do things to your set that were not even known about back when Gregg did your initial calibration, which I am sure was superlative.

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post #9167 of 12552 Old 07-25-2011, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

Hm, not quite. Fury outputs either component or RGB, swichable. The Moome goes out RGB only, you need a transcoder for getting that RGB output to be inputting to your display via component. So does the Gamma X, it puts out on RGB only as well.

Moome has a box that takes in HDMI and outputs to component, I had one but ran into challenges getting the pic to my screen, which turned out to be my error. Unfortunately I had already sent it back when I discovered exactly what that error was and corrected it. But I have a replacement on request from him.

b

Couldn't he just use the RGBHV input instead of messing with a transcoder?
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post #9168 of 12552 Old 07-25-2011, 10:25 AM
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I can already tell you that. I have used his RGB only box, along with an RGB->component converter.

His equipment is stellar, and so is the HD Fury equipment. Have not seen anything better, on both counts.

He has nothing equivalent to the Fury, to my knowledge. His devices are based primarily on the gamma bump, and the fact that conversions similar to the Fury are also excellent is just an added bonus.

b

I was under the impression, based on your remarks, that one of his devices (which you prematurely returned) would do the HDMI>Component (and handshake) that the Fury does. If that is not its primary use, but a secondary benefit, that would be fine if the Moome device offered other advantages, including HDMI 1.4.

I'd rather pay someone here than plug my credit card into a worldwide site.

By the way, do you do Craig Round's anti ringing mod, and what do you think of it?
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post #9169 of 12552 Old 07-25-2011, 12:14 PM
 
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And hats off to you, 2Bunny, for being the consummate, hands on, do-it your-selfer.

Thanks. In this economy you sometimes have to see what you can do for the lowest cost possible.

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No idea. Have very little experience with RCA.

I might just pass on that one then. Maybe there's something else that would be an easier "Fix N Resell" on CL. I've tried with laptops before (looking specifically for easy fixes on 1-2 year old computers), but people just don't reply to emails on there. I get on average, 1 reply out of 6 inquiries - and usually that "one" isn't worth it. Still, I comb through the listings just in case...

One thing the local CL cities seem devoid of are 73" RPTV sets. Guess their 65, 55, and 51" brothers were more affordable at launch.

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Depends on how big a bug it is. Everything is magnified by the lens being there. That said, one owner of mine had a yellow patch near the middle of his screen before I removed the dead bug on the blue coolant cover that was causing it, as part of my optics cleaning process. After that it was clean white all over the screen.

It was a pretty small bug. I'll try putting up an all white test pattern, but I don't remember seeing in particular any color artifacts on light scenes of video (except a burned station logo in the top right corner).

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Depends on the brand and its design. On Pioneers, each of the colors can be made to disappear in the service menu completely, leaving the rest still showing. On a Mit the non-used color gets diminished but never completely disappears. Nor does the internal grid. You just have to ignore it and concentrate on the masterful grid you are sending in there - the one with fine mid-light-level lines, at average light levels. Unlike the internal grid, which is way too hot and way to thick for any high precision convergence work. And being of different light level from your actual video content, it actually lies to you and causes you to slightly misdo your convergence. Only same light level grids vs. content will produce same light level success, grids vs. content.

So if I do a service menu convergence, I can feed it my own grid pattern? If so, do you know of any specific ones that I could download and work with?

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4x3 screenburn in action, obviously with black side bars, which didn't age nearly as much as the center 4x3 area.

The green gun's 4x3 footprint aged faster than the red and blue, which is not uncommon. If it hasn't gotten too bad on the red and blue, you could replace just your green gun and be home free.

b

Just out of curiosity, could someone create a 1920x1080 image file with a black 4x3 square in the center and white bars on the side to burn the sides back to reduce the problem?

- 2 Bunny
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post #9170 of 12552 Old 07-25-2011, 12:21 PM
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Thanks. In this economy you sometimes have to see what you can do for the lowest cost...

...It was a pretty small bug. I'll try putting up an all white test pattern, but I don't remember seeing in particular any color artifacts on light scenes of video (except a burned station logo in the top right corner).

- 2 Bunny

The motive for doing what you did is understandable. But your pluck and determination is admirable.

The TV with the insect is perfect for Bugs Bunny cartoons without modification.
(couldn't resist)

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post #9171 of 12552 Old 07-25-2011, 04:13 PM
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Yes. Any feedback on how well they do with the video content, how good those processors are and how sealed the electronics inside are from the influences of the outside, like 60 cycle hum and the various wifi and cordless frequencies so prevalent in homes these days? I know there's no question about any of that with the Moome stuff.

b

I can tell you I have been using the box 1020 with the FuryII for a long time and no issues with the above mentioned, image is pristine, however I use the RGB out.
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post #9172 of 12552 Old 07-25-2011, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by 2 Bunny View Post

One thing the local CL cities seem devoid of are 73" RPTV sets. Guess their 65, 55, and 51" brothers were more affordable at launch.

Also much more abundant. Same observation in my area.

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It was a pretty small bug. I'll try putting up an all white test pattern, but I don't remember seeing in particular any color artifacts on light scenes of video (except a burned station logo in the top right corner).

So the bug has a sponsor. That's cool.

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So if I do a service menu convergence, I can feed it my own grid pattern? If so, do you know of any specific ones that I could download and work with?

Yes. Yes.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=948496



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Just out of curiosity, could someone create a 1920x1080 image file with a black 4x3 square in the center and white bars on the side to burn the sides back to reduce the problem?

Yes, someone could, but it would have to be you, because it would have to EXACTLY match your burn-in pattern, otherwise you're just making a bad situation worse. But it has been done (I don't know how successfully, though).

Downloadable FREE demo discs:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475769/de...ently-authored 

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #9173 of 12552 Old 07-25-2011, 05:21 PM
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Quote:


Just out of curiosity, could someone create a 1920x1080 image file with a black 4x3 square in the center and white bars on the side to burn the sides back to reduce the problem?

I actually made a DVD video with a black 4x3 square in the center and alternating color bars along time ago, posted it in the Master burn in thread;

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=406182

After running it constantly for a week it only made a slight improvement toward matching the burn in. At this rate I figured it would take months to get it to come close to the burn in section thus not worth the effort. Well that and I came across Mr. Bob's pics in the big pic thread and saw what an RPTV was capable of.

So I gave up just got the CRT's refurbished instead and vastly improved image quality.
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post #9174 of 12552 Old 07-25-2011, 07:04 PM
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Question for Bob or anyone for that matter. Aren't our screens superior to the ones Mits uses in its DLPs. Sure seem to be to me. When my set dies, could I install it in a DLP?
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post #9175 of 12552 Old 07-25-2011, 11:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalani View Post

Couldn't he just use the RGBHV input instead of messing with a transcoder?

Yes, whoever has an RGBHV input can use it directly. Very few do, including my own set.

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post #9176 of 12552 Old 07-26-2011, 07:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

Yes, whoever has an RGBHV input can use it directly. Very few do, including my own set.

Apparently, the 65813 has RGBHV inputs. What's the significance of RGBHV?
What can I do with these inputs?

By the way, an interesting post on one of the Mitsubishi DLP threads, where the comment is that the picture on DLPs looks flatter than that on CRT RPTVs.
That's the same reaction that I have had with these "retro" and "new" technologies. It seems like you look into the picture on a CRT RPTV. Foreground and background have different qualities... probably due to color depth?

Thanks
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post #9177 of 12552 Old 07-26-2011, 11:32 PM - Thread Starter
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RGB is the final stage in a CRT RPTV, actually in any CRT application. It bypasses any other circuitry in the signal path because it's at the end of that path, there's nothing further between it and the CRTs. So it's the absolute cleanest point for sending in the signal.

b

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post #9178 of 12552 Old 07-27-2011, 05:43 AM
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I finally took delivery of my HD Fury II last week. Found some time over the weekend and moved the HDMI output of my BDPS550 Blu-Ray player from the DVI input to the component 1 input of my WS-48413. I then watched “The Mechanic”. Picture looked better, but I forgot about the “red push.” Now I remember one of the features that I love about this set…the ability to adjust the color for each input without going into the service menu. I then reviewed the color settings for the DTV input where my 8300HD DVR is connected: Magenta 20, Red 14, Yellow 31, Green 31, Cyan, 31, and Blue 31. Brightness 23, Contrast 30.

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post #9179 of 12552 Old 07-27-2011, 06:17 AM
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Mr.Bob, Which HD FURY would you recommend?

Thank you Sir!
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post #9180 of 12552 Old 07-27-2011, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

RGB is the final stage in a CRT RPTV, actually in any CRT application. It bypasses any other circuitry in the signal path because it's at the end of that path, there's nothing further between it and the CRTs. So it's the absolute cleanest point for sending in the signal.

b

So it might be better to do an HDMI to RGBVH conversion than to component? Have you ever seen the results of doing that?

Then the question becomes whether HDFury or the Moome box (which you are getting another unit of) will better support that conversion.

I ran across this article about the HDFury, which makes an interesting point. The article also references the Box 1020. Possibly Moome's box will do all of it.

http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8497

"This product will trigger your source to output digital RGB rather than digital YPbPr and not all HDMI sources output the correct video standard when switched to RGB; you may have to calibrate the display or source to correct this or possibly add an external scaler to correct errors."

Thanks
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