Don't dump your CRT RPTV! - Page 356 - AVS Forum
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post #10651 of 12552 Old 04-23-2012, 08:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Not quite sure what you mean. Try it and see -

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post #10652 of 12552 Old 04-24-2012, 04:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by splatee View Post

Hello, its been awhile since i posted in here. I have a quick question. I have a chance to pick up a Mitsubishi WS-73909 the only problem is that there is no picture. The owner says it turns on then turns right back off. This sounds loke it may be a convergance chip or the caps? Im just wondering if this would be worth snagging if i can get it below $100 ?

Thank you


I just got a reply back from the owner, he said that if i still want the set i could have it for practically free. Now i did not get an answer back about if there are any green blinking lights. From what i have read this could be either the 7 caps on the DM module or the convergance IC ? He just says that turns on and then turns right off.

Thank you
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post #10653 of 12552 Old 04-24-2012, 12:54 PM - Thread Starter
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It's going into protection, which could be anything.

The 909 was 4 years into HD in this country, so yes either of those could be the culprit. Or leaking coolant infecting the boards below the guns, which if the Signal board - far right as you look in from the front, below the blue gun - you'll probably be out of luck. If coolant on the other 2 it can be saved.

Be ready for anything, it's a crap shoot on this one. With the unit totally unplugged, insist on removing the speaker grill and fibreboard panel and looking at the boards beneath the guns with a strong flashlight, bouncing the light back to your eyes off the circuit boards beneath the guns. Or from the front, the important thing is to be looking for the gleam of liquid on the boards.

If it's in good shape minus an eligible repair, that's a steal. If there is coolant leakage and the Signal board is the one that's been dripped on, unless you find a tech willing to work on it - they are very very rare and they fail 50% of the time - or find a replacement board that's being parted out, it's irreplaceable and you've lost your investment.

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post #10654 of 12552 Old 04-24-2012, 08:12 PM
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Moved from the Pioneer EP 510 thread as it was OT.

As discussed there, I had problems with my 530HD RPTV. Based on symptoms:

it was suggested a convergence amp failure. Thanks to Mr Bob and various threads here on AVS forum (see pinned RPTV repair thread) it appeared my failure was in the red vertical convergence channel, and this problem is very common. Some threads suggest also resistor and maybe cap failures are possible too, at least in some brands. With encouragement from members here I decided to dig in. In worst case I could buy a Sony LCD replacement.

First up was to remove the lower back access panel


The power supply card containing the convergence circuitry is in the middle. There were around 8 ribbon connectors running to cards left and right of the PS card. Also some other connectors. Then there are about a dozen screws holding down the card. There are also some connectors on the "back" of the card (when viewed from behind the set) that aren't very accessible due to the CRT neck/card right above the large heat sink for the conv amps.

There is a panel behind the speaker grill on the lower front of the set. I pulled the screws but it wouldn't budge. I wasn't sure if it was supposed to be removable or not. But a couple taps from the inside and it started loosening, so I was confident to give a couple more taps and then pull off from the front. It is located on wood dowels, one on each side and was just stuck at first. Once I got that panel off it was a breeze to get at that end of the PS card, and I would have saved about half my time had I got that off first.

With the panel off you can see the Sanyo STK amps vertically mounted on the HS. Note that on the front right side of the card (looking from the front of the set) there are three identical connectors (RGB) so you need to label the connectors when you remove them.

With everything off and a little juggling the PS card came out the back. There is a small daughter card mounted on the PS card and this has the digital convergence data in EPROMs. I guess the idea is that if you need to replace the PS card you should retain that daughter card. While that card is socketed it also is soldered in as well. Not sure why Pioneer did that, maybe they were getting loose?

The amps are 18 pin single row in line and desoldered from the back. I decided to break down and get a proper de-solder iron from RS which made it easy to remove the amps. The amps are held to the HS with 2 screws. Once off there is some old thermal grease which I removed.



I did a visual of the card and didn't see any evidence of bad parts, and elected not to try to check the resistors etc, just replace the amps and try it. As recommended I sourced the amps from MCM electronics. Got them in about 4 days (I'm in Hawaii). I see those Sanyo parts are discontinued (STK392-180 and many others) so I don't know how long repair is going to be possible.

I used some HS grease from RS (didn't go for the better stuff like AS5 ) applied like I would on a CPU or GPU. No problem soldering the new amps in.

Reassembly was pretty fast (since I knew what I had to do). While in there I tried to blow out as much dust as I could.

I fired it up and just went into the user convergence multi-point adjustment. I considered going into factory mode but my results seemed pretty good so for now I'm not going to.

I took off the AR screen and I want to check the mirror and lenses and clean them up some. Meanwhile I have about 10 hours since the fix and all is well.

Thanks again for all the help on this forum.

scott s.
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post #10655 of 12552 Old 04-24-2012, 10:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Excellent expose!

Best way to get stuck-on ICs off the heat sink is to use channellocks.

Best way to get the old grease off - only remove it if it's dried out, if it's still gooey you can re-use it - is to use a small putty knife.

The best way to get that wood panel off the front is to take one of the screws you removed from it and screw it sideways into the nonexistent space between the wood of the panel and the wood of the cabinet. After a turn or 2 the panel will snap right away from the set itself.

And your pattern looks pretty darn good for not having gone into the service mode!


Now:

Don't try to get a super high precision convergence out of it on the internal grid, which is too hot/bright and thick for high precision. You need a medium light level grid with tight, thin lines to do a really high precision job. The yellow button is your key to using your own grid in there.

Also, you need to really be careful once you get to the optics. Those lenses are made of plastic and are extremely vulnerable and easily scratched. Or scuffed, which is thousands of tiny scratches at once. The mirror is a front surface mirror, so use nothing with ammonia in it. I recommend you be in touch with me if you want to do that op completely safely and thoroughly.

But for now, congrats on a job well done! My compliments -



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post #10656 of 12552 Old 04-25-2012, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

... The yellow button is your key to using your own grid in there....

Do you need to be in Service Mode for the Yellow Button to work?
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post #10657 of 12552 Old 04-25-2012, 06:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh yeah, definitely. And you need to be in convergence section of the service mode.

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post #10658 of 12552 Old 04-26-2012, 12:21 PM
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I have my PS3 connected to my Mits 73713 by an HDMI/DVI cable (the PS3 does not have component out). I am actually feeding the PS3 into a processor - HDMI on both ends, and the processor is HDMI to DVI to the Mits. DVD's work fine, but when I install, on the PS3, a system upgrade or the recent Amazon app, the picture goes to 100% noise. If I switch to another device on the processor, the picture is fine. The only way I can get rid of the noise from the PS3 is to turn it off and on.
Both Sony and Mits service have punted on this. Any ideas???
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post #10659 of 12552 Old 04-26-2012, 12:25 PM
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Pssssst.....



Monoprice.com for less than five bucks...
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post #10660 of 12552 Old 04-26-2012, 12:35 PM
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Certainly worth a try- thank you!
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post #10661 of 12552 Old 04-26-2012, 01:44 PM
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Rage Guy-
I think you sent a photo of the DVI to component-I need an HDMI to component, which Monoprice doesn't carry. Thanks anyway.
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post #10662 of 12552 Old 04-26-2012, 02:03 PM
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Yeah I use somet.hing like that for my Xbox connecting to a Mits 55413.
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post #10663 of 12552 Old 04-26-2012, 02:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mindless View Post

Rage Guy-
I think you sent a photo of the DVI to component-I need an HDMI to component, which Monoprice doesn't carry. Thanks anyway.

What's pictured is definitely not DVI, it's HDMI if anything.

But it's most likely HDMI to RGBHV, not component. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe HDMI/DVI can use a cord like that to output RGBHV, but not component. Takes a transcoder to get component from RGBHV.

Again, correct me if I'm wrong...

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post #10664 of 12552 Old 04-26-2012, 05:50 PM
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Ok i went ahead and picked up the Mitsubishi WS-73909 for the incredible low price of free . Here is the run down on the condition......

#1 Diamond protective screen is really scratched up. I dont mid because i will just take it off.

#2 the set is like a dust bowl. dust everywhere looks like it never has been cleaned.

#3 Mylar mirror is real dusty, i can see the layer of dust on it without using a flash light. What would be the best way to clean this?

#4 I ran the code and it blinked a code 22. Two blinks, pause two fast blinks. So i guess this is code 22 ?

I went and too the DM module out. The shell said WS-65909 and not 73909, did theses both use the same DM module? Upon looking at the 7 caps i do not see any visible bulging but 3 of the caps look to be a different brand but the board looks like it was never worked on.

I also saw no evidence of coolant leaks, the drip rail below the crts was dry and did not look like any visible coolant residue.

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k3...0426-00088.jpg



Do the caps look like they have been replaced? i am going to go by radio shack and pick up 7 new ones and pop them in.

Thank you
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post


What's pictured is definitely not DVI, it's HDMI if anything.

But it's most likely HDMI to RGBHV, not component. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe HDMI/DVI can use a cord like that to output RGBHV, but not component. Takes a transcoder to get component from RGBHV.

Again, correct me if I'm wrong...

b

My guess is that (if it's anything like the ones in our local videogame shop) it is just a regular old component cable for the PlayStation 3 that connects to the Sony proprietary port (the same video multi out port they've been using since the original PlayStation) rather then the HDMi port on the unit. They use component cables instore on the LCD display televisions and it looks fantastic.

- 2 Bunny
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post #10666 of 12552 Old 04-26-2012, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mindless View Post

...If I switch to another device on the processor, the picture is fine. The only way I can get rid of the noise from the PS3 is to turn it off and on.
Both Sony and Mits service have punted on this. Any ideas???

Welcome to HDMI handshaking issues. The install probably interrupts the output, which then needs to be reestablished. There's nothing wrong with your setup and probably not much you can do about it besides off/on of the offending component.

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Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #10667 of 12552 Old 04-27-2012, 04:18 AM
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OK quick question...

Looking at the service manual it says that a code 22 = "Short Protect"
Also it says after the initial 70 seconds after intial power up that the DM μPC is booting up and is "normal". Once i try to turn the tv on, the light goes green for a few seconds then it turns off. Where should i start to look at? Could there still be a dm power problem?

From further reading the manual it looks like it is a convergance chip and possible pico fuse problem. I am going to look at the pico fuses at F9A04 and F9A05 on the board. I may order a IC chip. Also does radio shack carry pico fuses?

Thank you
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post #10668 of 12552 Old 04-27-2012, 08:37 AM
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Yes they make PS3 component cables, just like they do with HDMI and composite. They just don't come with the systems.
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post #10669 of 12552 Old 04-27-2012, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mindless View Post

Rage Guy-
I think you sent a photo of the DVI to component-I need an HDMI to component, which Monoprice doesn't carry. Thanks anyway.

This is the correct cable for using component out from your PS3. The end you are looking at is not DVI or HDMI on that cable. It is for a proprietary video output port on the back of the PS3.
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post #10670 of 12552 Old 04-27-2012, 09:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by splatee View Post

OK quick question...

Looking at the service manual it says that a code 22 = "Short Protect"
Also it says after the initial 70 seconds after intial power up that the DM μPC is booting up and is "normal". Once i try to turn the tv on, the light goes green for a few seconds then it turns off. Where should i start to look at? Could there still be a dm power problem?

From further reading the manual it looks like it is a convergance chip and possible pico fuse problem. I am going to look at the pico fuses at F9A04 and F9A05 on the board. I may order a IC chip. Also does radio shack carry pico fuses?

Thank you

If it's the caps that are the culprit, it will just sit there and blink at you interminably, will not turn on at all. In which case you replace the 1000uF caps with 680uF caps, all else remains the same including the temp rating. They don't have to be bulging to be bad, and a buddy of mine who does a lot of these says changing them out always cures the problems. And yes, all 909s of that model year will use the same circuitry in that section.

Check the pico's, I suspect one is out. If so it's probably your conv ICs being shorted, yes.

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post #10671 of 12552 Old 04-27-2012, 09:12 AM - Thread Starter
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#3 Mylar mirror is real dusty, i can see the layer of dust on it without using a flash light. What would be the best way to clean this?

Last time I cleaned mine I used an ultra soft wide paint brush and gently coaxed all that extra dust off, trying not to scratch it. Otherwise you might consider buying a new one.

Best option is to find a replacement front surface glass one to take its place. Be sure and get 1/4" glass, not 1/8", which is just not rigid enough for this size.

I got my glass one from www.highreflectivemirrors.com, but they don't seem to be responsive anymore. If someone finds them I'm all ears, but Jason has not been answering my emails and his vm box is full. I have not had time to try out the various options you guys came up with earlier in the last page or 2, thanks and I'll get to it when things calm down here again...

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post #10672 of 12552 Old 04-27-2012, 09:31 AM - Thread Starter
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#2 the set is like a dust bowl. dust everywhere looks like it never has been cleaned.

You should see how dirty your optics are! Bleary picture city! Shine a strong flashlight on them from a steep angle and you'll see it.

Or go to my youtube video on the subject -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BD0RgsfOcS0

But don't shoot from the hip on this - those optics are incredibly vulnerable and easily damaged with the wrong methods and materials, and all such damage is instant and permanent.



I strongly recommend getting on the phone with me about that before proceeding.

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post #10673 of 12552 Old 04-27-2012, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post



I got my glass one from www.highreflectivemirrors.com, but they don't seem to be responsive anymore. If someone finds them I'm all ears, but Jason has not been answering my emails and his vm box is full. I have not had time to try out the various options you guys came up with earlier in the last page or 2, thanks and I'll get to it when things calm down here again...

b

I did a good bit of research to find those mirror sites, and I think at least one of them will pay off. All you have to do is pick up the phone, and you'll know in a couple of minutes......

I mean, it's not like taking a trip through the Looking Glass, Bob.
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post #10674 of 12552 Old 04-27-2012, 12:02 PM
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Just a quick update...

I checked both pico fuses at F9A04 & F9A05, both are open. I get no beep when i check them for continuity with the digital multimeter. So it looks like i will need to replace those as well as the IC chip or can i just replace the two pico fuses?

Thank you
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post #10675 of 12552 Old 04-27-2012, 01:16 PM
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Good day Everyone!

Ok, here's the story, I've been a long time owner of the 57F59a since 2006 -- however, due to my ignorance on how to maintain these babies I had left it on factory settings and you know what that caused -- BURNS! And thank God to this thread I realized how I would next time maintain a great set like this! Well lo and behold -- I snagged a used but one in mint condition 57F59a!! It even comes with the original warranty (till the end of this year) with Brick! And it is completely BURN-free! (it was kept at med to low contrast by original owner) This set is like new -- unbelievable. This is redemption for me. As you have guessed I am now babying this set. So, I would like advice/comments from you experts on my current contrast and brightness settings to curb any potential future burn-ins -- currently this is what they are:

For hdmi input (blu ray) --> contrast: 38 , brightness: 68

Wii gaming --> contrast: 0 to 28 (zero contrast when my kids play it) , brightness: 68

cable (analog, non-hd) --> contrast: 28 , brightness: 68

Do you think they are safe enough settings to stave off any future burn-ins?

Thanks!
A
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post #10676 of 12552 Old 04-27-2012, 02:08 PM
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First, congrats, and welcome aboard.
Second, where've you been?! We've been here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=790702
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=687477
service manual:
http://elektrotanya.com/hitachi_57f5.../download.html
At the very least, call Bob and have him walk you through a lens and mirror cleaning.
You may want to experiment on the old one first!
Michael

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Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #10677 of 12552 Old 04-27-2012, 06:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post

I did a good bit of research to find those mirror sites, and I think at least one of them will pay off. All you have to do is pick up the phone, and you'll know in a couple of minutes......

I mean, it's not like taking a trip through the Looking Glass, Bob.

Can't wait! Today was not good because I somehow left my hood unlatched on my Mustang last night after helping out when someone needed a jump and as soon as I got up to speed on the fwy entrance, the hood snapped up and took out my windshield! Still driveable, but now the lost time on that one begins...

And the Saab I was driving because I was considering buying it blew the hoses and a few other things with the coolant now invading the combustion chamber and vice versa, so now it goes thru water like a sieve and the oil looks light brown and frothy...

Sad to say but as much as I want to, I have to let the mirror wait for now again, for a few more days at least. But can't wait once I am free of all this drama, and thanks so much for your research! As soon as I can I will pick up that phone and get this done. Can't wait to have a glass mirror in my set!



b

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post #10678 of 12552 Old 04-27-2012, 06:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by splatee View Post

Just a quick update...

I checked both pico fuses at F9A04 & F9A05, both are open. I get no beep when i check them for continuity with the digital multimeter. So it looks like i will need to replace those as well as the IC chip or can i just replace the two pico fuses?

Thank you

It's your ICs all right. Those fuses go to the plus and minus power supplies for your convergence. They blew because one or both ICs are shorting. Happens all the time on CRT tech.

Don't even bother trying to replace the pico's and be home free. They blow for a reason. Replace the ICs and the pico's and be done with it, as I have done countless times on this tech. It's a good upgrade to do anyway, just on GP.

b

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post #10679 of 12552 Old 04-27-2012, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

It's your ICs all right. Those fuses go to the plus and minus power supplies for your convergence. They blew because one or both ICs are shorting. Happens all the time on CRT tech.

Don't even bother trying to replace the pico's and be home free. They blow for a reason. Replace the ICs and be done with it, as I have done countless times on this tech. It's a good upgrade to do anyway, just on GP.

b

I was going to order one STK393-110 and a few of the pico fuses and replace them. Do mean in your above statement to not only replace the pico fuses? I am going to replace both of them and the IC. I have checked a few sites and they list the cheap chinese made ones, i am a bit hesitant using them because of what i have read. Also what is the best way to take the circuit board out of the chassis? I see that there are 2 ribbon type connectors on both sides that connect it to each of the other boards in the chassis. How do those come apart?

Thank you
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post #10680 of 12552 Old 04-27-2012, 07:43 PM
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Can't wait! Today was not good because I somehow left my hood unlatched on my Mustang last night after helping out when someone needed a jump and as soon as I got up to speed on the fwy entrance, the hood snapped up and took out my windshield! Still driveable, but now the lost time on that one begins...

And the Saab I was driving because I was considering buying it blew the hoses and a few other things with the coolant now invading the combustion chamber and vice versa, so now it goes thru water like a sieve and the oil looks light brown and frothy...

Sad to say but as much as I want to, I have to let the mirror wait for now again, for a few more days at least. But can't wait once I am free of all this drama, and thanks so much for your research! As soon as I can I will pick up that phone and get this done. Can't wait to have a glass mirror in my set!



b

That's a hell of a difficult car day you had, Bob. But the negative with the Saab turns out to be a positive because you haven't, I take it, purchased the car.

I had a bit of good carma, recently, helping a friend buy an immaculate 2005 VW Passat. Beautiful car, as long as you remember to regularly change its synthetic oil.
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