Don't dump your CRT RPTV! - Page 357 - AVS Forum
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Old 04-27-2012, 11:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by splatee View Post

I was going to order one STK393-110 and a few of the pico fuses and replace them. Do mean in your above statement to not only replace the pico fuses? I am going to replace both of them and the IC. I have checked a few sites and they list the cheap chinese made ones, i am a bit hesitant using them because of what i have read. Also what is the best way to take the circuit board out of the chassis? I see that there are 2 ribbon type connectors on both sides that connect it to each of the other boards in the chassis. How do those come apart?

Thank you

Sorry for the confusion, I did a typo in the above post and meant to say to change out both ICs and the picos as well. It has been changed now to correctness in that post.

Except that if it's the 393, then yes there's only 1 IC, not 2. All 6 channels are handled by the one chip, whereas usually 2 are needed, at 3 channels each.

I would get your IC ONLY from a reputable source, like MCM, Union Electronics, East Coast, etc. Far too much work goes into changing them out to trust cheap knockoffs or factory seconds, which is where the lowered price tag comes from.

If you want to do this right, don't try to separate the boards just to get to the one in question. Remove the entire light box and set it up on end, to work on the ICs, leaving the boards where they are relative to each other, and fully connected up to each other. There are a few inline connectors you'll have to disco, and 4 bolts and 4 flathead screws. The screws are up above, the bolts are down below, on the sides of the lightbox. Then once the inlines are separated from each other, the entire lightbox slides out of the back so you have access from all angles.

That allows you to not have to disco anything critical - connections that may be missed when you put things back together again, potentially causing damage if they are not connected back properly or are left simply disco'd. Some circuits, esp. HV feedback circuits, freak out and go into runaway - very possibly causing instantaneous damage - if left unloaded.

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Old 04-28-2012, 09:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post

That's a hell of a difficult car day you had, Bob. But the negative with the Saab turns out to be a positive because you haven't, I take it, purchased the car.

I had a bit of good carma, recently, helping a friend buy an immaculate 2005 VW Passat. Beautiful car, as long as you remember to regularly change its synthetic oil.

Well I really was not off the hook simply because I had not bought the car yet. I will buy the car now that I have damaged it, there's a reasonable price tag on it. Can't give it back to the owner like that when it happened on my watch. Yes she was taking a chance having someone drive it and keep possession of it while the water pump was in bad shape and leaking coolant. But I knew that going in. It happened on my watch, I'll take care of it one way or the other.

It still runs very well, has plenty of power even tho the compression stats are now significantly compromised, so I am going to see if that leaking like a sieve is just a blown hose or 2, in which case I would go ahead and drive it till it can't be driven anymore. I'll be taking it down to my local mechanic today. The Saab guy across the bay says no money should be put into it, just off it, but it runs so well even compromised, I gotta try something!

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Old 04-28-2012, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
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Well I really was not off the hook simply because I had not bought the car yet. I will buy the car now that I have damaged it, there's a reasonable price tag on it. Can't give it back to the owner like that when it happened on my watch. Yes she was taking a chance having someone drive it and keep possession of it while the water pump was in bad shape and leaking coolant. But I knew that going in. It happened on my watch, I'll take care of it one way or the other.

It still runs very well, has plenty of power even tho the compression stats are now significantly compromised, so I am going to see if that leaking like a sieve is just a blown hose or 2, in which case I would go ahead and drive it till it can't be driven anymore. I'll be taking it down to my local mechanic today. The Saab guy across the bay says no money should be put into it, just off it, but it runs so well even compromised, I gotta try something!

b

Ah, so you drove it with a known issue? Did the owner know that driving the car could trigger damage? I'd hate to think that you are responsible for something that is not your fault.

Well, at any rate you're an honest chap, Bob!

Do you ever get down to LA for a visit/vacation?

Cheers.
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Old 04-28-2012, 01:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Nep, haven't had a vacation in years. Have had a few business trips/calibration tours, but no vacations yet! I long for the days when I could get away for a week in Hawaii simply because I did a favor for someone who owned a condo and had a vacancy! That happened about 15 years ago...9 days in the sun, rent free!

No, am looking forward to that next plane ticket that gets sent to me, so I can come down and trick out a few sets!



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Old 04-29-2012, 02:06 AM
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Quote:
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Nep, haven't had a vacation in years. Have had a few business trips/calibration tours, but no vacations yet! I long for the days when I could get away for a week in Hawaii simply because I did a favor for someone who owned a condo and had a vacancy! That happened about 15 years ago...9 days in the sun, rent free!

No, am looking forward to that next plane ticket that gets sent to me, so I can come down and trick out a few sets!



b

Didn't you know, Bob? We have coconuts, beaches, and sunlight here in LA!
Aloha!
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Old 04-29-2012, 06:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Stoke up the grill, have a little Woodford Reserve ready -



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Old 04-29-2012, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksubrama View Post

+1 using the fury3 with my pro710HD with absolutely no issues. Use one fury for both my PS3 and the Oppo BDP95.

I purchased it right before the system calibration by Mr. Bob, so have not done any blu-ray AB comparison with direct analog via component.

Other than the typical HDMI handshake delays, the Fury has pretty much been plug n play in my setup. Highly recommend the 3 series if you have 2 HDMI input signals.

KS

What cable do you use to connect your Fury3 to the TV?

Did the Fury3 come with the cable?

Thanks,

Bob
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Old 04-29-2012, 09:59 AM
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I decided to take a look at the mylar mirror and crt lenses to see what condition they are in. I havent really had a chance to evaluate the set overall, just been concentrating on the code 22 error.

I have two concerns...

#1 The mylar mirror is extremely dusty and has a haze to it. Looking closer at it it looks like someone wiped a spot and there are fine line scratches.

#2 Looking into the crt lenses i can see what looks like dust blobs and floaters under the lens.

#3 Found the IC at MCM http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/STK393-110-NO and the pico fuses http://www.mcmelectronics.com/produc...m_term=28-0636

My main concern is that i do not know what the condition of the set is in when working. I do not know what it was set at or if there is any screen burn. So i am not looking to dump a bunch of money into it, this is why i am opting for the lower price IC chip. I feel comfortable purchasing it from MCM since they are a reputable store.

Should i be concerned with the junk under the crt lenses?

Thank you
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Old 04-29-2012, 02:15 PM - Thread Starter
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I would still opt to go with official Sanyo parts, if you're gonna do it at all. The substitute MCM part pictured is a very generic pic and is not even that IC, as the 393 has 2 rows of legs, not just one. The difference in cost will only be a couple of bucks, 25 at the most, which is all you're saving by going cheap. Would you leave out changing out your throwout bearing if you were doing a full blown clutch job, just because it is still operating correctly at the time of the repair? Not done among professionals, they always change out the throwout bearing as a matter of course, working correctly or not. Too much time and energy to go back in a month or 2 later. Same argument here.

Find one elsewhere. Stick with Sanyo.

Junk under lenses - it is being magnified by the lenses. If not looking really huge in there, I would not disturb the seal between the lens and the coolant cover. Many ways to have something really seemingly innocuous like that come back and bite you on the butt later.

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Old 04-30-2012, 09:00 AM
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Any chance anyone here has a PTK178L2A Service Manual (money is a bit tight right now)? I have an electrical schematic of the boards that came with the TV (still folded up nicely in back) but I'm looking to check the covergence chips and related so if they need replacing I can try and order the parts. The owner's manual isn't much help but I know this TV can perform better even if it is 16 years old.

I see rainbowing in the picture and I have no clue on how to use the service menu even though I have the code to get in to it. I just don't know what any of the letters and numbers mean once I get there. Any insight would help.

Thanks....
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Old 04-30-2012, 10:06 AM
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There is a sticky at the top of the forum page that has links to service manuals.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1310024

Hope that helps.
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Old 04-30-2012, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by splatee View Post

There is a sticky at the top of the forum page that has links to service manuals.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1310024

Hope that helps.

Thanks. I've been through that list and the only option I have at this point from all of those links is the "pay for one" option. I guess I'll keep looking but I do appreciated the advice.
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Old 04-30-2012, 04:36 PM
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Pioneer Elite Pro 530Hd stuck screen.

Trying to remove the screen to see about cleaning, but it seems stuck in the lower channel. As near as I can see it's just a plastic piece that's stapled to the particle board piece that the screen is mounted to. The screen is two-layer and there seems to be a bit tape around the bottom that holds them both together. I'm guessing maybe this tape is sticking to the channel since the screen has never been removed. I was able to work a putty knife along the front side of the channel, but that didn't seem to loosen things up at all. I'm thinking maybe I could work something thin along the bottom of the channel working from either side but I'm concerned too much force on one end might cause a crack in the screen and game over.

Any one have experience with this problem? I did flex the top of the screen out an inch or so and peering inside the mirror didn't look bad but the lenses do seem a bit dirty.

scott s.
.
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Old 04-30-2012, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott967 View Post

Pioneer Elite Pro 530Hd stuck screen.

Trying to remove the screen to see about cleaning, but it seems stuck in the lower channel. As near as I can see it's just a plastic piece that's stapled to the particle board piece that the screen is mounted to. The screen is two-layer and there seems to be a bit tape around the bottom that holds them both together. I'm guessing maybe this tape is sticking to the channel since the screen has never been removed. I was able to work a putty knife along the front side of the channel, but that didn't seem to loosen things up at all. I'm thinking maybe I could work something thin along the bottom of the channel working from either side but I'm concerned too much force on one end might cause a crack in the screen and game over.

Any one have experience with this problem? I did flex the top of the screen out an inch or so and peering inside the mirror didn't look bad but the lenses do seem a bit dirty.

scott s.
.

One of those layers might be a screen protector, but that's just a guess. When you started talking about tape sticking it was my first thought.

Don't know if this will help you or not.....

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1129740
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Old 05-01-2012, 12:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Pioneer used tape at the bottom of the 2 layer viewscreen sandwich to keep it together down there, that gets gooey later on in life. To get that viewscreen off the set you have to pull upwards steadily on it with steady strong pressure till it gives. It may take a full minute before it breaks free.

Be sure and keep something between your hands and that plastic, which absorbs residues like crazy. I recommend either linen gloves or small hand towels.

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Old 05-04-2012, 07:27 PM
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I'll give it another go. Wife is saying "it's good enough, put the AR and trim back on".

Update: OK I kept at it and finally it started coming up.
Off now. Mirror looks pretty good but lenses could use a cleaning. I think I will shoot you an email rather than just experiment with cleaning (web research didn't really give me a good answer on what to use).






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Old 05-05-2012, 09:08 AM
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Love that the lense looks like a happy face!!
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Old 05-05-2012, 09:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, that's cute!

With that much thickness of gook on there, I usually actually draw a happy face on it with my wet finger - always licking my finger first, never do it dry - to show the owner exactly how dirty that lens really is.

You'll love knowing that the deeper optics contain lenses that are just as dirty, so on a Pioneer CRT RPTV, the deeper optics cleaning is critically essential, as well as the regular optics. On a Pioneer Elite or non-Elite, 10 of the 28 surfaces in there need it critically by your set's age. The cleaning should be done every year without fail, and you're a little behind...

But that just means the difference you will wind up with in your viewing, in your set's case, will not be subtle. It will be dynamic, when you're done. The bleariness will be gone and the transparency and true inky blacks CRT is famous for will now be restored to your video content, once the grayscale has been optimised and the Black Level realignment for restored sensitivity has been done on your set. Esp. when you're viewing under ideal circumstances - with your viewing environment identical to that of the movie theater out there in the mall. Almost black but with some ambient lighting, to be kind to your eyes' irises.

And as far as getting info from the net on this, you know my stance: it's just as easy to get bad info from the net as good info. I have even seen microfibre towels recommended by Mr Bob on the net. And if you know anything about me from my over 10 years just on this one site - AVS Forum - you know I would NEVER recommend microfibre towels in this app!

My recommendation is to stick with the tried and true, especially about your irreplaceable optics. I have been coaching owners on the correct way to constently clean their optics over the years - and always safely, with no damage, ever - for the last 20 years. Having me do it for you on location is of course the best, but my phone coaching is also 100% effective with you on the other end of the line doing the actual work. With professional grade guidance from me on the other end of the phone every step of the way, the look of new will be restored to your set.

And it's not expensive at all, to have me on the line for these highly critical ops on your CRT based big screen, regardless of brand or model.

The optics cleaning is just the start of what can be done on your end, with me on the phone keeping you on the straight and narrow. It usually takes about an hour, stem to stern. One owner started there and then went on to spend a total of 4 hours with me on the phone doing various ops together before he was thru, and was so impressed with the results that when I was close by to his location on a calibration tour in Texas, he had me come over and finish the job as well.

You only get one shot at doing it right each time you do it. One false move and it's permanent damage to your optics. Contact me and get it done right.

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Old 05-05-2012, 11:59 AM
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It's funny that you mention microfiber, as I had my doubts as to its applicability with regard to cleaning projection TV optics. Can you spell out specifically why it's detrimental?

Thanks
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Old 05-05-2012, 01:30 PM - Thread Starter
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No absorbency. Leaves residues and swirls. Does not pick the glop up off the lenses, leaves it there to dry.

Any dry method will also scratch or scuff soft vulnerable plastic lenses used in CRT RPTV tech. Which would apply to microfibre too, but not just microfibre on that one.

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Old 05-07-2012, 11:33 AM
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I have a Mitsubishi WS-65857 65" CRT RPTV. In 2009, the green CRT went out on it, and I wimped out of fixing it and bought a new 50" plasma to replace it. However, I have not been able to bring myself to throw it away (which probably has something to do with the fact I paid about $4,000 for it ). So it has been in my garage all this time. Since CRT RPTVs are not so popular these days, I assumed it probably had no value and I should probably just have the city come take it next time they do their large items pickup.

But then today I accidentally browsed my way to this thread. I am not really up for a project to get it up and running, but now that I see the love for RPTVs here, I am wondering if anyone would like to have it?

I don't want to gunk up this thread with a bunch of posts about my old TV, so if you do have any interest, or any advice on the best way to get it to a good home, please send me a private message. I am located in San Antonio, TX.

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Old 05-07-2012, 01:27 PM - Thread Starter
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The spark you mentioned in your thread can easily be handled by properly re-insulating the HV leak in your system with silicon caulking applied nice and thick, which sets up flexible once thoroughly cured. Curing takes 24 hours min, and you must not operate it for more than a few seconds - for testing only - till cured properly.

In a 65", you have size most of the fixed pixel crowd can only dream of. That's why you see so many 47" fixed pixel sets out there. The bigger ones are just not affordable to most people. Yours is free, and evidently perfectly operational aside from the HV arc. All you have to do is get the touch of the master's hand on it, so it can truly perform the magic it was intended for. Believe me, that does not happen out of the box.

If you want to see what can happen with such attention, contact Superleo and ask if you can come over and visit him to see what Mr Bob could do for your set. He's in SA. We worked together on his Hitachi a few years ago during one of my tours in his area, and I am sure you'll be blown away by his picture.

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Old 05-07-2012, 03:59 PM
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That is awesome. Thank you for your thorough reply Mr Bob.

I should probably mention that the 50" plasma was for the bedroom. I had already upgraded to a DLP in my main room a couple of years earlier because my Mitz was starting to show its age (so I thought, was quite ignorant of the amazing picture that can be had from CRT). I'm now already on my 2nd DLP which is a 73" Mitsubishi that has 3D (chip went out on the first about a month ago). I consider myself more of an audiophile than videophile but I do appreciate a realistic calibrated picture, and I am quite ignorant when it comes to self calibration. My 73" isn't performing at its optimum either because I lack the skills to get everything set perfectly, but it does have a nice picture and the price was right.

Thanks for pointing out that superleo is in my area. The irony is, the way I found myself to this thread was actually through superleo even though I don't know him personally. I downloaded and enjoyed his Reference Blu-Ray Demo Disc, and clicked on one of the threads in his signature that lead to another post to this thread. Cool. I will definitely see if he is game for a RPTV demo. Maybe it will convince me to find a purpose for my old set. But realistically, I don't think there is a room in my house that it would go nicely in. So it is likely I'll still want to find a home for it. But I am certainly convinced it should not go out with the trash.

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Old 05-07-2012, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [KYA]Mega View Post

That is awesome. Thank you for your thorough reply Mr Bob.

I should probably mention that the 50" plasma was for the bedroom. I had already upgraded to a DLP in my main room a couple of years earlier because my Mitz was starting to show its age (so I thought, was quite ignorant of the amazing picture that can be had from CRT). I'm now already on my 2nd DLP which is a 73" Mitsubishi that has 3D (chip went out on the first about a month ago). I consider myself more of an audiophile than videophile but I do appreciate a realistic calibrated picture, and I am quite ignorant when it comes to self calibration. My 73" isn't performing at its optimum either because I lack the skills to get everything set perfectly, but it does have a nice picture and the price was right.

Thanks for pointing out that superleo is in my area. The irony is, the way I found myself to this thread was actually through superleo even though I don't know him personally. I downloaded and enjoyed his Reference Blu-Ray Demo Disc, and clicked on one of the threads in his signature that lead to another post to this thread. Cool. I will definitely see if he is game for a RPTV demo. Maybe it will convince me to find a purpose for my old set. But realistically, I don't think there is a room in my house that it would go nicely in. So it is likely I'll still want to find a home for it. But I am certainly convinced it should not go out with the trash.

Any time... I learned from Bob, he is a true CRT master. I've done a lot to my tv, and thought my PQ was pretty good... Bob came over and really improved it even more. There is nothing like a super tweaked RPCRT, new technology is getting closer but at a very high price, so not there yet.

"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."
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Old 05-08-2012, 08:10 PM
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Ok have an update,

recieved new convergance IC and pico fuses the other day and just got done installing them. Tv turned on and everything seemed to work correctly. I went and hooked up a xbox 360 to the 1080i DTV component input to see how it looked. Now the problem is that i go to device menu to pick the input but it does not show up, it is missing. I tried every other input and reset the av settings and reset the tv but still no luck. This is a bit frustrating, i fixed the code 22 error and not i do not have the high def 1080i input. Any ideas? I looked through the menu settings to see if there was a place to turn inputs on and off but did not see one.

Thank you
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Old 05-09-2012, 02:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Can't remember the model you have, but sounds like the DTV input has somehow been reassigned away from component and onto RGB instead. That would explain your results anyway -

b

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Old 05-09-2012, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

Can't remember the model you have, but sounds like the DTV input has somehow been reassigned away from component and onto RGB instead. That would explain your results anyway -

b

Ok went into the service menu. The DTV was set to "auto" i changed it to 1080i. I now have the input show up in the menu input selection but now when i click it the screen is all distorted and lines and will start to shake after a minute. Even with the menu displayed it is still the same. If i switch to another input it is fine but i notice a slight shake to the image. I wonder if this could be a 9v regulator problem? I had a similar issue with a 55813 that the image would scroll and i replace the 9v regulator.



If i change the "dtv" input back to "auto" in the service menu i can get a image from the xbox 360. I just changed the xbox to 1080i and now it seems to work. I have a 1080i image on the DTV input, weird how it just worked now. I will play around with it a bit more and make sure it is not a one time thing.

Thank you
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Old 05-09-2012, 08:48 AM
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Quick update time..

Everything seems to be looking good now. I have the "DTV' input working. I set it back to "auto" in the service menu and now have xbox 360 set to 1080i working on the input. I need to play with the convergance because it is a wee bit off. What is the best way to do this? I usually just pull up the user menu and cover up a crt to block a color and then adjust red and then blue. I never have done it through the service menu. I still have to do the trim pot focus and manul crt lens focus. I was thinking about getting a soft hair artist type paint brush and slowly cleaning off the dust from the mylar mirror but have decided for now not to becuase im afraid of ruining it. But for a free tv and $30in parts i am happy.
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Old 05-09-2012, 09:18 AM - Thread Starter
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I have used such a brush and it does about the best job possible for a mylar mirror. The best way to upgrade is to a glass, front surface mirror, check the last few pages and I believe Taichi4 has provided us with the current source for such mirrors. A mylar will only do so much fidelity and won't get any cleaner than a certain amount, and attempts to get it cleaner will usually scratch it.

I will be getting one to replace my mirror soon, I tried the one I had made for it years ago on an owner's 73905 recently and it was a huge and very effective upgrade. I will have the time for its procurement and installation soon, my total thanks to Taichi4!



But for now, a fine clean brush will probably be your best bet.

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Old 05-09-2012, 09:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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This is what happens when your set cannot sync up to the signal properly. It is usually caused by the signal being sent out in 1080p to a 1080i-max set.

Most bluray players these days are designed for the newest of the new displays, meaning they default their Auto output settings to send out 1080p. 1080p was not prevalent when our sets were designed and will not work with our CRT sets, which need 1080i to look their best. The difference between 1080i and 1080p is nominal at best and takes the likes of an overhead projector to see the difference, and would make no relevant difference in our viewing of today's HD, whether from HD discs or broadcast. Be that as it may, 1080i is the max our sets can take in and properly display.

The cure is to set your bluray or HD-DVD player to go up to, but no higher than, 1080i. You may need to send out an S video or composite signal to do this - to one of the analog inputs on your display, to be able to see the menu for this setup on your disc player and alter it.


BTW, the bleariness in this pic - the grayness in what should be crystal clear blacks and the huge glow around the bright spot in the middle - shows that your set is in dire need of optics cleaning. Contact me directly if you want to get it done right.

Don't be a cowboy out there, guys, on this optics cleaning operation especially. Damage to your optics from the wrong methods and/or materials is instant and permanent. And irreversible.


Splatee -

My suggestion is to honor the fact that you got this $10,000 set for virtually nothing and use that spared cash to get it taken care of properly, maybe by a highly experienced fellow owner who would be glad to come on location for it?



b

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