Don't dump your CRT RPTV! - Page 361 - AVS Forum
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post #10801 of 12615 Old 05-22-2012, 06:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bweissman View Post

It is good. I'm the original owner, the TV has never been moved, Bob re-soldered the power board, convergence is fine, Duvetyne lined, lovingly focused, etc. It even has the ATSC built-in tuner (of questionable value IMHO), and an unused remote (I use a Harmony). I can throw in the HDFury2 to make it HDMI-ready. I have the printed service manual, owner's manual, blah, blah, blah. As far as a 1080i 58" RPTV goes, this is a good one. But it weighs 300 pounds.

Lacking any interest here among you CRT RPTV enthusiasts, next week I will try "freecycling" it. If that fails, we all know the unhappy outcome.

Realtors bidding to sell my house say all the RPTVs just get rolled to the curb.

If someone would like to donate the use of their truck to take my present 610 over and get Bob's calibrated 610 and bring it back here to continue to use for testing the PS boards I resolder and send back to other Pioneer Elite owners, he'd be glad to trade my non-calibrated one and make it available to the freecyclers instead. I know how much it takes to rent a Uhaul for such a purpose, as I have done so before.

Anybody got a truck out there we can borrow and use?

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post #10802 of 12615 Old 05-22-2012, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

Right, because what he needs desperately is another set in the house. Which, BTW, is in California.
He's just adding his (very valuable) two cents, encouraging someone (else) to express an interest before it's too late.
Good luck.

Come on ship it to cali!!! (joke)
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post #10803 of 12615 Old 05-23-2012, 05:00 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post


If someone would like to donate the use of their truck to take my present 610 over and get Bob's calibrated 610 and bring it back here to continue to use for testing the PS boards I resolder and send back to other Pioneer Elite owners, he'd be glad to trade my non-calibrated one and make it available to the freecyclers instead. I know how much it takes to rent a Uhaul for such a purpose, as I have done so before.

Anybody got a truck out there we can borrow and use?

b

That's the one down side to these beasts - they're just so tough to transport sometimes. We've got a big ol' van, and the 51" class is about the largest we can move in one piece without a trailer; we actually had to turn down an older Mitsubishi 55" widescreen HD unit last January (the typical "not powering on" convergence IC and possible other small components fix) because there just wasn't any way to put it in the van no matter how you tip it, even if you took the middle row seats out.

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post #10804 of 12615 Old 05-23-2012, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

If someone would like to donate the use of their truck to take my present 610 over and get Bob's calibrated 610 and bring it back here to continue to use for testing the PS boards I resolder and send back to other Pioneer Elite owners, he'd be glad to trade my non-calibrated one and make it available to the freecyclers instead.

No, actually I don't want your old one. The idea is to get rid of the RPTV, not to swap one for another!
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post #10805 of 12615 Old 05-23-2012, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by bweissman View Post

No, actually I don't want your old one. The idea is to get rid of the RPTV, not to swap one for another!

Hmm....let me talk to my wife. Our bedroom might be able to house it and component is just fine by me.
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post #10806 of 12615 Old 05-23-2012, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Naylia View Post


Hmm....let me talk to my wife. Our bedroom might be able to house it and component is just fine by me.

Actually between weight and dimensions this guy isn't gonna make it up the three floors to our apartment
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post #10807 of 12615 Old 05-24-2012, 05:33 PM
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This is really sad. My TV, which cost $6300 and was top of the line in 2001, has literally no value even though it is in perfect working order. I am going to have to pay to have it hauled away and dumped.

Oh, well. I just got rid of my LP turntable and vinyl records, too. Obsolescence happens. Anybody want a Canon A-1 35mm film SLR with 3 lenses and a flash? Didn't think so, that's next to go.
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post #10808 of 12615 Old 05-24-2012, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bweissman View Post

This is really sad. My TV, which cost $6300 and was top of the line in 2001, has literally no value even though it is in perfect working order. I am going to have to pay to have it hauled away and dumped.

Oh, well. I just got rid of my LP turntable and vinyl records, too. Obsolescence happens. Anybody want a Canon A-1 35mm film SLR with 3 lenses and a flash? Didn't think so, that's next to go.

I'll take that camera off your hands!

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post #10809 of 12615 Old 05-24-2012, 09:33 PM
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If that Pioneer had been a 64" or so I most definitely would have taken it. I've got a 53" Panasonic and want a much larger screen which is why I've been looking on CL for a 65", brand not necessarily important but I'm leaning towards Mitsubishi. Anyone here own a Toshiba 65HC15? There is one currently for sale on CL. I know that Mitsubishi's implementation of HDMI to CRT RPTV isn't well done. This Toshiba has HDMI. Does Toshiba in general have the same issues as Mitsubishi wrt HDMI?

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post #10810 of 12615 Old 05-25-2012, 04:14 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bweissman View Post

This is really sad. My TV, which cost $6300 and was top of the line in 2001, has literally no value even though it is in perfect working order. I am going to have to pay to have it hauled away and dumped.

Oh, well. I just got rid of my LP turntable and vinyl records, too. Obsolescence happens. Anybody want a Canon A-1 35mm film SLR with 3 lenses and a flash? Didn't think so, that's next to go.

I guess it's a buyers/CraigListers market at this point. The HD television market is going the way of the smartphone - buy nice expensive hardware on a contract and find that it is worthless a few years later even if a used one off contract was $500 close to launch. In the smartphone world, they're moving too fast for their own good, and "it's time for a new one" after a two year contract. I suppose the difference is that you can more easily transport a smartphone, but you can see where it is similar.

- 2B
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post #10811 of 12615 Old 05-25-2012, 05:53 AM
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lol, I know I have a long way to go with my calibration(my first on any tv) and I don't have a higher end set like a lot of you as I just bought this RCA W52D19 for $100 to mess around with(It's in almost mint condition).

Here is my gamma after the first part of doing greyscale. Should I even bother to improve it? Looks like a 2.24 average.


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post #10812 of 12615 Old 05-25-2012, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomGreen321 View Post

lol, I know I have a long way to go with my calibration(my first on any tv) and I don't have a higher end set like a lot of you as I just bought this RCA W52D19 for $100 to mess around with(It's in almost mint condition).

Here is my gamma after the first part of doing greyscale. Should I even bother to improve it? Looks like a 2.24 average.

I would say that you should try to get it flatter. If yo show all three primaries on the graph how do they look? That is what you should shoot for to having them closer together and flatter even if you have to go a little dimmer or a little brighter (above or below 2.2).

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post #10813 of 12615 Old 05-25-2012, 06:59 AM
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Here is an example. I believe this one if from after Bob performed his magic on my Hitachi.




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post #10814 of 12615 Old 05-25-2012, 09:07 AM
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They're all pretty good except blue has a slight bump. It's an RCA so it has limited amount I can do(No CMS, R/G Cutoff, etc). I will check messing with it(that was the result of 30 minutes of work tbh). Plan on going full on this weekend when the kids leave.
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post #10815 of 12615 Old 05-25-2012, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Bunny View Post

I guess it's a buyers/CraigListers market at this point. The HD television market is going the way of the smartphone - buy nice expensive hardware on a contract and find that it is worthless a few years later even if a used one off contract was $500 close to launch. In the smartphone world, they're moving too fast for their own good, and "it's time for a new one" after a two year contract. I suppose the difference is that you can more easily transport a smartphone, but you can see where it is similar.

- 2B

Since the beginning of TV, there has NEVER been a good resale market for used TVs and 11 year old TVs have always been almost no value. The original price has never made a difference 11 years down the road. For most of the history of TV 11 years is at the end of the average life of TVs (yes some last 15 - 20 years but most do not).
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post #10816 of 12615 Old 05-25-2012, 03:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juancmjr View Post

If that Pioneer had been a 64" or so I most definitely would have taken it. I've got a 53" Panasonic and want a much larger screen which is why I've been looking on CL for a 65", brand not necessarily important but I'm leaning towards Mitsubishi. Anyone here own a Toshiba 65HC15? There is one currently for sale on CL. I know that Mitsubishi's implementation of HDMI to CRT RPTV isn't well done. This Toshiba has HDMI. Does Toshiba in general have the same issues as Mitsubishi wrt HDMI?

I have an even better and bigger deal for you. My year 2000 65" Panasonic CRT is available and is fully cleaned and calibrated. It also does 720p native, just like it does 1080i native, each one separate from the other, and it is rumored that since it can do 720p that it can also do 3D.

HDMI is only necessary if you want to upconvert your old regular SD DVD library to 1080i/p. Other than that, component 1080i looks every bit as good as the HDMI version if not better, since HDMI is just one more way to step on an otherwise perfect signal. And HDMI can be added to older sets via the HD Fury.

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Contact me, you're not all that far away.

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post #10817 of 12615 Old 05-25-2012, 03:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GEP View Post

Since the beginning of TV, there has NEVER been a good resale market for used TVs and 11 year old TVs have always been almost no value. The original price has never made a difference 11 years down the road. For most of the history of TV 11 years is at the end of the average life of TVs (yes some last 15 - 20 years but most do not).

True. But not so for great cameras, great analog audio sources and speakers, and great amps and preamps. And telescopes, cameras and many other optical things.

In this case yes the current tech has left CRT behind, but in name only. If you look at the first post of this very long thread, I specify why fixed pixel is not necessarily the cat's meow for HD. CRT is still the most tried and true format out there, with generations more experience and honing than anything highly affordable out there today.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=695922

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post #10818 of 12615 Old 05-25-2012, 05:56 PM
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It's funny how different people value things in a different way. The way I look at it I was perfectly happy to pay $500 for my 65813, given that it has a great picture, that there aren't that many out there, that it has 9 inch tubes, and that it was babied by its former owner.

If you value things on the basis of general awareness, rather than the special characteristics of an object, then you may tend to undervalue something.

Just my two cents.
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post #10819 of 12615 Old 05-25-2012, 05:59 PM
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Woot woot... My resistors showed up today! Looks like my weekend is going to be Awesome!

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post #10820 of 12615 Old 05-25-2012, 06:28 PM
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In a lot of ways, the shift away from CRT to fixed pixel is very similar to what is going on to my industry, that of motion pictures.

Digital cameras have completely taken over as the primary method of capture, and it had nothing to do with being better than film. It didn't even have to do with cost, though that was what was being promoted. Fact of the matter is, it had to do with a loophole in the actor's contract and by switching to digital, shows could avoid shutdown when the actors were threatening strike. However, once the genie was out of the bottle, well, let's just say the camera rental houses have an absolute ton of film cameras just sitting, gathering dust.

The amazing part of that is, some of those film cameras had put in over 30 years of work and to this day can still function perfectly. The only thing that changed was film emulsions. Conversely, the digital cameras we were using 5 years ago wouldn't be touched by even low budget projects.

Similarly, 10-15 year old RPTVs still can look great today, while fixed pixels from the same time frame, even 5 years ago, have all sorts of problems. The new stuff, the OLED and 4K sets, the Elites, these are all now capable of looking near to or as good as CRT, and once you're at that point, well, tech wins. It's a bummer, and we can hold on to nostalgia, but there you are. I embrace working on film shows, but I'm no longer bitching and moaning when on a digital one.

I also had a cold hard reality call relating to the value of things. My Pioneer Elite receiver and DVD player both took dumps recently. I purchased these along with my Pioneer 510 over 11 years ago. The receiver cost me $900, the DVD something like $600 at that time. I saw my DVD player on eBay 2 days ago for $35. I was originally thinking of fixing it, now I'm resigned to just dumping it in the trash. I'm gonna run my TV into the ground, but I'm not gonna dump another penny into it. I'm saving those for whatever is the 'new' 2 years from now.
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post #10821 of 12615 Old 05-25-2012, 07:08 PM
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Based on recent sets I've seen, it would have to be a very large OLED to induce me to give up my Mits.
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post #10822 of 12615 Old 05-27-2012, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjcrum View Post

Mr. Bob,

I have a 65" Toshiba TW65X81; bought it as a VERY early HD adopter in 1999. I have regularly calibrated what I could using the Avia test disc, probably once per year. I also set the user level convergence a couple of times a year. So....it's actually been a GREAT set with a nice picture for a number of years.

However, starting about 6 or 8 months ago, I noticed that I was really starting to miss a lot of the picture at the edges. The "ABC HD" logos in the lower right corner said "ABC.." (as in I was losing a lot of the picture on the edges) and I couldn't even read scrolling information commonly seen at the bottom of the picture on ESPN or CNN.

I investigated and found that accessing the service mode might let me adjust the picture size both horizontal and vertical so that I could regain all of my picture. I found a few sites that described the process, studied, and got ready to go.

So, I managed to adjust the picture width and height just great; I see all the picture just fine now. I even used the built in test grids to adjust the service level convergence.

I need to do a service level convergence on one of these for a friend. The links I have found for the service level convergence are no longer valid. Does anyone know where I can still find the info?

Thanks!
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post #10823 of 12615 Old 05-27-2012, 12:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Be aware that changing the sizing on CRY RPTVs contorts the picture greatly, basically hosing all the precision presently in play. Should be handled by someone highly experienced in overscan reduction.

Are you saying that Avia has been the only test disc used to calibrate this set? If so you're missing out on HD!

As many here know, I do phone consultations on such things, if you want coaching from the best.



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post #10824 of 12615 Old 05-27-2012, 01:22 PM
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I was able to nearly reduce my overscan on my Pioneer TO ALMOST 0 through the service menu following the directions in the service manual. However BOB is correct as you can get some bending on the edges due to
taking the adjustment to its near limits. Believe there is a mod of some sort discussed here that brings the guns closer to the screen allowing one to back off the adjustments in the service menu eliminating the bending along the edges.

I found a happy medium on mine. Only see the bending on dish menu, otherwise picture is great.
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post #10825 of 12615 Old 05-27-2012, 03:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Unless you're doing the shimming op - raising the guns - don't try for any more than 4% minimum, 4-4.5% nominal. Otherwise you really can't get much successfully done on CRT RPTV tech without the kind of problems you're talking about. 4% is more than enough to show everything that really needs to be shown.

Overhead CRT projectors with separate screens yes, RPTVs no.

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post #10826 of 12615 Old 05-28-2012, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetmeck View Post

I was able to nearly reduce my overscan on my Pioneer TO ALMOST 0 through the service menu following the directions in the service manual. However BOB is correct as you can get some bending on the edges due to
taking the adjustment to its near limits. Believe there is a mod of some sort discussed here that brings the guns closer to the screen allowing one to back off the adjustments in the service menu eliminating the bending along the edges.

I found a happy medium on mine. Only see the bending on dish menu, otherwise picture is great.

My experience has been that you can't go below 4% just by readjusting DCAM before having major feathering. If the Shimming OP is performed you can do 2% or so with no major feathering.

If you move the grid regardless of the OP performed there will be massive geometry adjustments. If things are to be done correctly, this is a major issue, if you just want to reduce oversacn by moving the DCAM grids and no attention to geometry is kept then the this OP would be missing a major component. (keeping geometry correct)

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post #10827 of 12615 Old 05-28-2012, 08:51 AM
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My center channel speaker is not magnetically shielded. If I get distortion, will the picture restore 100 % when I remove the speaker?
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post #10828 of 12615 Old 05-28-2012, 09:28 AM
 
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On a RPTV you shouldn't need to worry about the center being shielded or not, only on the Tube type CRT and that's it.
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post #10829 of 12615 Old 05-28-2012, 10:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Incorrect. Any crt will be affected. They all use centering magnetism on their necks, some permanent/mechanical, some electronic.

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post #10830 of 12615 Old 05-28-2012, 10:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superleo View Post

My experience has been that you can't go below 4% just by readjusting DCAM before having major feathering. If the Shimming OP is performed you can do 2% or so with no major feathering.

If you move the grid regardless of the OP performed there will be massive geometry adjustments. If things are to be done correctly, this is a major issue, if you just want to reduce oversacn by moving the DCAM grids and no attention to geometry is kept then the this OP would be missing a major component. (keeping geometry correct)

Leo doesn't really mean moving he means resizing, though moving the image causes its own keystone changes.

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