Don't dump your CRT RPTV! - Page 417 - AVS Forum
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post #12481 of 12733 Old 07-10-2014, 06:07 PM
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bgeese:

Did read my PM to you on Tuesday where I said:

"This morning I ran across more material of people with CRT-based televisions who have experienced the exact same kind of dotted lines. In most cases these lines come from interference of some sort, which might even include faulty cabling to your TV. From my own experience I know that audiovisual cables do wear out after time.

I would start by having someone move the cabling around while you're watching to set, as sometimes this shows that the cabling is sensitive."

As I've stated previously on the forum, I reached the conclusion that the dotted lines were not your TV, but had to do with signal coming into your inputs.

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post #12482 of 12733 Old 07-10-2014, 10:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tw40f80 View Post
Bob email me next time you are near Tampa, Fl. I have 2 - 65813. One was calibrated by Craig Rounds but the other I fixed myself (blinking green light) and needs to be calibrated. I am sorry I missed you in May but I have been away from this site for a few months.

On an aside I would never part with my mits.
We are on the same page there, old buddy! Me neither.

Did Craig install his anti-ringing mod for you? I don't know if it improved my set or not, as Mit threw me a curve.

In the 65813 model year, for which the mod was created, all 3 of the caps involved were the same value. The object of the mod was to install trimmer caps to replace the fixed caps and each color fine tuned on that amount of capacitance in that particular part of the circuit.

On my set I did the mod before I saw the values of the caps, which were all 3 DIFFERENT! So Mit had already done some research - hopefully because of reading Craig's white paper on the subject (which incidentally he had asked me to proofread and edit for him).

If it turned out that the mod would not have been needed on my set because Mit had been there first, then nothing was really improved and my set was as crisp out of the box as it is now. If Mit changed the values to values that were not aligned with Craig's directives on handling that IC, then there was a definite improvement. I would not know without removing each trimmer and comparing the amount of capacitance on it - using a cap checker - to the values of the fixed caps in the service manual. Which is too much work to consider these days. It's as crisp as it gets, I know that. You might want to check and see if yours is.

To answer your question, I went to FLA because I had one free flight with Southwest that had not been used, on the old program which flew you anywhere in the continental states that SW flies. On the way I had a chance to trim up Dave Prazak's set in PHX on that 3 hour layover. Did one other cal in Davie, but with a very limited budget. That was all. Would have loved to do your set.

But now I have no reason to be there except for calibrations. Will be glad to work it out with you and perhaps a few fellow afficianados in your area. Will keep your request in the hopper in case other reasons to go there crop up of course, but the only way to get me there for sure is to fly me in.

b

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post #12483 of 12733 Old 07-11-2014, 07:36 AM
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So you're saying, then Bob, that the anti ringing mod may have been done by Mits after the model year that the 65813 came out?
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post #12484 of 12733 Old 07-11-2014, 02:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, it's a distinct possibility. The end product of that mod anyway. Otherwise they would have simply left the values of the 3 caps alone, all identical but none optimized for its own particular circuit, like they did out of the starting gate on the 65813.

Which is how Craig found it on the 65813, all 3 identical. In my set's model year, 2 years later/the last year ever for Mit CRT/the 73517, each cap/each color had its own separate and distinct value.

Luckily he evidently knew the characteristics of the IC each of those caps goes to (same IC on all 3), and that it had the capacity for that particular cap involved in it to be altered for improved performance. He evidently got out his trusty o'scope and started fiddling around and came up with his mod for that circuit.

The circuit itself - in the drive phase of the CRT socket boards - is the same on all 3 colors, same IC is used on all 3 of the boards, same circuitry for all 3 except for the value of that one cap. But each color's image has different needs in that application, and that cap value controls and alters the characteristics of that IC, thereby altering the amount of edge enhancement that gets to its own particular gun.

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post #12485 of 12733 Old 07-11-2014, 03:14 PM
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Does the 65813 pass Dolby surround through its outputs?

If it does, does it use the peculiar digital audio out, and can it be converted to optical?

Thanks

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post #12486 of 12733 Old 07-11-2014, 03:24 PM - Thread Starter
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No idea. See if it has digital outputs, like fibre optic or coaxial.

Seems like only the HD tuner would output anything, tho, as I believe this was before HDMI.

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post #12487 of 12733 Old 07-11-2014, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post
No idea. See if it has digital outputs, like fibre optic or coaxial.

Seems like only the HD tuner would output anything, tho, as I believe this was before HDMI.

b
Your link didn't work. It wants me to post. Heh.
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post #12488 of 12733 Old 07-11-2014, 04:56 PM - Thread Starter
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So THAT'S what the writing being in blue means. Had no idea, it just came out that way this time. You'd think after 9000 posts this kind of thing woulda happened before!



Corrected. Thanks -



b
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post #12489 of 12733 Old 07-11-2014, 10:02 PM
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Mr.Bob (or anyone else) what model blu-ray player do you have that allows 1080i over component with no HDCP issues? I have a Sony s380 and it has component out it was the main reason I traded a new blu-ray player for it with a friend but its locked at only 480p. I run everything through my edge via HDMI to reduce overscan to 0% and be able to hookup any new HDMI only tech to my 813. I'm interested in seeing how good blu-ray looks over component compared to HDMI if its a big enough difference I'll deal with the the 8-9% overscan. I can always reduce it later if needed
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post #12490 of 12733 Old 07-11-2014, 11:15 PM
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The Sony S300 and S350 will output component at 1080i also if you can find an older Sony PS3 (the fat kind) I still use mine on my Pioneer Elite 620 and it does 1080i beautifully.
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post #12491 of 12733 Old 07-12-2014, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post
No idea. See if it has digital outputs, like fibre optic or coaxial.

Seems like only the HD tuner would output anything, tho, as I believe this was before HDMI.

b
Whoa. Looks like my retro 65813 is more capable with respect to decoding and passing surround sound than many, if not most, modern displays. The following is from the Mitsubishi WS65813 Menu.
© 2003 Mitsubishi Digital Electronics America, Inc. Written and Printed in the U.S.A 871D370B10

" Digital Audio Output
This output provides Dolby Digital audio,received in the signal from the ANT-DTV input and IEEE-1394 devices. This output is intended to be connected to an external
audio receiver that is capable of decoding the digital stream and converting it to analog signals suitable for driving loudspeakers.

This output does not send a signal while analog devices connected to other inputs are being used, when MP3 or WMA cards are being played, or when MPEG audio "

" 2 Digital Audio Signals
The TV is able to decode Dolby Digital signals and MPEG Audio signals. “Other” types of digital audio as provided by some digital recording devices,such as MP3 Audio and DTS Audio, cannot be decoded by the TV when received over IEEE 1394.

The TV may not be able to pass incompatible digital audio signals on the coaxial digital audio output, however these signals may pass on the IEEE 1394 cable to other devices. "

The 65813 has a coaxial digital audio output, for which, I understand, there are converters to optical.
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post #12492 of 12733 Old 07-12-2014, 09:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Turnbough View Post
Mr.Bob (or anyone else) what model blu-ray player do you have that allows 1080i over component with no HDCP issues? I have a Sony s380 and it has component out it was the main reason I traded a new blu-ray player for it with a friend but its locked at only 480p. I run everything through my edge via HDMI to reduce overscan to 0% and be able to hookup any new HDMI only tech to my 813. I'm interested in seeing how good blu-ray looks over component compared to HDMI if its a big enough difference I'll deal with the the 8-9% overscan. I can always reduce it later if needed
I have 2 Sony's and am keeping one of them. The one I am keeping is the BDP-S570. That leaves the other one available, if you want it. It's the BDP-BX37. Contact me directly. Does dynamite internet streaming of its own internal offerings - like Netflix and Hulu and many others - in 1080i. This you cannot get with Roku or Apple TV, which output in 1080p but not 1080i, making them useless to our sets without expensive downscaling capacity, from 1080p to 1080i.

The HD Fury 4 can do that downscaling, and I will need to sell one soon, as I need to order 2 at a time to get my dealer cost on them and it looks like I might have an interested party as we speak for the first one. Otherwise you have to go with an expensive scaler and hope its output does not get stomped back down to 480p by HDCP and have to get a Fury anyway. The Fury 4 takes care of all of that, it converts any scanrate to any other scanrate while still passing the full and complete signal out of component without any HDCP intervention, just like the Fury II and III series always have. And the Fury I before that, in RGBHV only, for the big ceiling CRT projectors, like Runco, Ampro, Electrohome, Barco... The early Fury's had to power up those big boys, whose picture has always been way bigger than ours, and as such way more demanding.

With the Sony I am selling, you don't have to worry about that 1080p limitation on any of the Sony's internal net offerings, which may not be as many as Roku or Apple TV, but are in 1080i and as such ready to go for our CRT sets.

Both of my Sony BD players are 3D capable and internet ready, and I don't know if they do wi-fi, you'd have to check on that yourself. I can however confirm that they do a perfect 1080i on component with blurays and net streaming of their own selections. No limitations down to 480p. That's why I am definitely keeping one of them. Have been using the one that's available for about a year, no problems at all. Very light usage, as I usually watch Dish and rarely do movies. When I do, the bluray content out of both the BX37 and the S570 is truly amazing.


I too bought a BDP I thought would do 1080i over component and got the same results as you. It is an LG, a very nice unit, with a very reasonable price tag and component outputs, so I scarfed it up immediately from Best Buy - or actually the owner did, after the calibration we did. Thought I had really nabbed a great deal! Nep. Same 480p limitation, which was also mentioned in the set's owner's manual.



Woulda taken it back, but I was overconfident and didn't know about this limitation and that this unit had it, and it took so long to get over there again to my owner's house and pick up the unit that the return privilege date had passed. Anybody want a dynamite LG BDP? Refurbished, looks and acts like new. I'll sell it to you at cost +10% +shipping if any.

It's a beautiful unit if you want to use it with HDMI only. Streaming and wi-fi both, plus possibly other amenities. And 1080i out of component output, of non-copy guarded content.

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post #12493 of 12733 Old 07-13-2014, 12:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post
Whoa. Looks like my retro 65813 is more capable with respect to decoding and passing surround sound than many, if not most, modern displays. The following is from the Mitsubishi WS65813 Menu.
© 2003 Mitsubishi Digital Electronics America, Inc. Written and Printed in the U.S.A 871D370B10

" Digital Audio Output
This output provides Dolby Digital audio,received in the signal from the ANT-DTV input and IEEE-1394 devices. This output is intended to be connected to an external
audio receiver that is capable of decoding the digital stream and converting it to analog signals suitable for driving loudspeakers.

This output does not send a signal while analog devices connected to other inputs are being used, when MP3 or WMA cards are being played, or when MPEG audio "

" 2 Digital Audio Signals
The TV is able to decode Dolby Digital signals and MPEG Audio signals. “Other” types of digital audio as provided by some digital recording devices,such as MP3 Audio and DTS Audio, cannot be decoded by the TV when received over IEEE 1394.

The TV may not be able to pass incompatible digital audio signals on the coaxial digital audio output, however these signals may pass on the IEEE 1394 cable to other devices. "

The 65813 has a coaxial digital audio output, for which, I understand, there are converters to optical.
Before you get too excited, notice it says "This output provides Dolby Digital audio,received in the signal from the ANT-DTV input and IEEE-1394 devices."

The ANT-DTV input, is from tuner sources only. And as for the IEEE-1394 connection, just curious as to how many devices you have that have a IEEE-1394/Firewire capabilities? As only a very few very high end AVR's even had the abilities to do so with a required IEEE-1394/Firewire input and also the necessary internal chipset to utilize it.

So DD via ANT-tuner programs only, it's the same as with most TV's sold today.
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post #12494 of 12733 Old 07-13-2014, 10:07 AM
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...So DD via ANT-tuner programs only, it's the same as with most TV's sold today.
I should have given more detail about what I'm trying to do, which is run a 5.1 soundbar. In that scenario, some TVs do not pass the 5.1 signal:

http://www.cnet.com/news/20-tvs-test...o-a-sound-bar/

When you are speaking ANT-tuner, you are including my cable box, right?

My aim is to connect my BluRay via HDMI to the soundbar, and convert my digital coaxial to TOSLINK via a C2G convertor to pass cable surround to the soundbar.
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post #12495 of 12733 Old 07-13-2014, 11:29 AM
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Thanks Mr Bob and UofAZ1. I Googled the BX37 and read a bunch of reviews one glaring problem for me is like my s380 its wifi-ready and takes a proprietary Sony wifi adapter thats about $80 so thanks Mr Bob but I think I'll have to pass for now. On the other hand I can't believe I totally forgot about the PS3 as a valid blu-ray player. With built-in wifi, recent price drop from PS4 release and a huge gaming library currently available. Its not without its own shortcomings but looks like the direction I should be considering . Thanks again for help
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post #12496 of 12733 Old 07-13-2014, 11:42 AM
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Btw is anyone else not getting email alerts from AVS about new postings on this or other threads your subscribed to? My email was getting full of AVS alerts and for the passed couple weeks nothing..maybe its just me
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post #12497 of 12733 Old 07-13-2014, 12:33 PM
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Btw is anyone else not getting email alerts from AVS about new postings on this or other threads your subscribed to? My email was getting full of AVS alerts and for the passed couple weeks nothing..maybe its just me
I got an e-mail notification of your post. I noticed each e-mail notification said "There may also be other replies, but you will not receive any more notifications until you visit the forum again."
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post #12498 of 12733 Old 07-13-2014, 12:45 PM
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Btw is anyone else not getting email alerts from AVS about new postings on this or other threads your subscribed to? My email was getting full of AVS alerts and for the passed couple weeks nothing..maybe its just me
I've been getting them. Try logging out and back in to see if the notifications resume. If you're still having trouble there's a thread here in the Forum Operations Center where admin Mike can check for you.
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post #12499 of 12733 Old 07-13-2014, 02:26 PM - Thread Starter
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I just received email notification, no problems here.

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post #12500 of 12733 Old 07-13-2014, 02:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Mr Bob and UofAZ1. I Googled the BX37 and read a bunch of reviews one glaring problem for me is like my s380 its wifi-ready and takes a proprietary Sony wifi adapter thats about $80 so thanks Mr Bob but I think I'll have to pass for now. On the other hand I can't believe I totally forgot about the PS3 as a valid blu-ray player. With built-in wifi, recent price drop from PS4 release and a huge gaming library currently available. Its not without its own shortcomings but looks like the direction I should be considering . Thanks again for help
I have not tried my Sony's wifi adapter because I hook mine up wired. My Dish Hopper has a Netgear WNDA 3100 wifi adapter that plugs straight into the front of it at the USB port. Even tho it says Dish on it on one side, on the other side its imprint says it is made by Netgear and looks pretty common and just like the one I got from AT&T for my PC - they gave it to me free but said it was a $50 value. It's made by Netgear also, and works flawlessly. The PC's model is the WMA 1100. I believe both are N grade, I know at least one of them is.

Are you sure you need to use a Sony proprietary one? Probably get one of these Netgears from Monoprice for a lot less.

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post #12501 of 12733 Old 07-13-2014, 08:45 PM
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The proprietary adapter was mentioned in a few reviews along with with a some of the aftermarket USB wifi adapters some of the more disgruntled purchasers tried before returning or selling the unit. As for my s380 I tried 3 adapters just after I got it to no avail. Reviews I read after the fact said the same thing about mine. I gave up since for just a little more I can run a Roku box through my DVDO edge and convert it down to 1080i. Although that's all through the DVI port.

Mr.Bob do you know if the 813's video level on the DVI port on the is set to PC or video?
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post #12502 of 12733 Old 07-13-2014, 10:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry, no idea. Never used it.

Don't worry about the BX37. Since it is one of the last BDPs in the known universe to output 1080i on component, I am sure it will find a good home.

Wifi is just a perk. The real importance is that 1080i/component combo, and beyond a certain model year it ceased to exist, even when the BDP was equipped with component OP. This one is before then and its 1080i on component out is flawless.

It's the best and most direct way of getting natural, original-issue 1080i HD to our CRT based sets.

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post #12503 of 12733 Old 07-14-2014, 12:46 PM
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I've been getting them. Try logging out and back in to see if the notifications resume. If you're still having trouble there's a thread here in the Forum Operations Center where admin Mike can check for you.
Thanks Keenan.. I had to unsubscribe and resubscribe to the thread. It seems to be working now
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post #12504 of 12733 Old 07-14-2014, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Turnbough View Post
Mr.Bob (or anyone else) what model blu-ray player do you have that allows 1080i over component with no HDCP issues? I have a Sony s380 and it has component out it was the main reason I traded a new blu-ray player for it with a friend but its locked at only 480p. I run everything through my edge via HDMI to reduce overscan to 0% and be able to hookup any new HDMI only tech to my 813. I'm interested in seeing how good blu-ray looks over component compared to HDMI if its a big enough difference I'll deal with the the 8-9% overscan. I can always reduce it later if needed
The older Panasonic models that you can easily find on EBay handles !080i with ease. And they are much better than the newer Panny models with all of the DRM restrictions IMO. I have the classic Panasonic DMP-BD35. And will never part with it for the newer restricted models. It doesn't do 3D. But that is irrelevant to me anyway with a RPCRT. Better with component or HDMI? Both are beautiful on my Hitachi 65F59. But I run mine through the Monoprice HDMI switcher for ease of operation with other HDMI sources.
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post #12505 of 12733 Old 07-14-2014, 11:19 PM
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When you are speaking ANT-tuner, you are including my cable box, right?
Nope, ANT-Tuner is the sets own internal off air antenna tuner, which unless it can also tune in the digital channels and not just the analog, is now worthless.
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post #12506 of 12733 Old 07-14-2014, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Johnla View Post
Nope, ANT-Tuner is the sets own internal off air antenna tuner, which unless it can also tune in the digital channels and not just the analog, is now worthless.
So is the 65813 incapable of taking 5.1 from cable and passing it in to a soundbar?
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post #12507 of 12733 Old 07-14-2014, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post
So is the 65813 incapable of taking 5.1 from cable and passing it in to a soundbar?
If you need to use a cable box to tune in the cable channels, highly unlikly, if you can still tune in cable channels with the sets own internal tuner, maybe for some unencrypted channels. But with a set without a native HDMI input I highly doubt that it can in any way if you need to use a external cable box. I don't, and never did have that set. But when I used to have a Pioneer 510 Elite RPTV, it could not do so via external cable or satellite boxes. That set like many others, only the off air programming and cable programming capabilities of unencrypted cable channels from the sets own internal tuner could do 5.1 via the sets optical output sound option. And for external cable box encrypted/scrambled channels programming or satellite programming, you had to hope the cable box or satellite box also had a optical or coaxial sound output option, which is what you had to use for a input for the surround sound hookup to a AVR. Content providers really frown upon converting HDMI signals to anything else, no matter if it is video or audio signals.

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post #12508 of 12733 Old 07-15-2014, 08:01 AM
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As you might know, these sets have a simulated surround capability, and the 65813 has a very good one. What I notice is that with certain material (DVD, Blu-Ray, and cable broadcast) this set produces very little faux surround. With other material I got a very pronounced surround effect, to the extent that both my girlfriend and I can hear sounds well to the side of us.

It seems to me that if material is encoded with the effective surround material, it gives the faux surround "something to work with." Given that this is occurring both with my Blu-Ray player, and cable material, it seems to me that some surround material is being passed to the set from cable.

On another note, aren't there FireWire to optical converters?
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post #12509 of 12733 Old 07-15-2014, 08:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Johnla View Post
Nope, ANT-Tuner is the sets own internal off air antenna tuner, which unless it can also tune in the digital channels and not just the analog, is now worthless.
Taichi4 -

On my set, my last-ever gen Mit, the ANT-1 is a full fledged digital HD tuner, but on the 65813 that had not happened yet, built-in. So on my set the internal tuner is valuable today, but on your set yes it would be worthless.

My WS 73517 has 2 firewire input/outputs and a coaxial digital audio output, the coax of which would work with your sound bar as long as your sound bar accepted coax and not strictly Toslink fibre-optic. A coax to Toslink converter might be required. All working from a set of 2 VHF/UHF/CABLE/CABLE CARD equipped F Connector inputs. It also has a service port with an opening I have never seen before, at least not at first glance.

My chassis would be the same as your 65" version, but 2 years later than yours, ending in 17 rather than yours which ends in 13. They used the same chassis for the 9" gun 73's and 65's, not even aiming the guns appropriately for each, I might add. I believe they set their aiming at something in between the 73" gun distancing and the 65" gun distancing, which would work for both. The center green gun was already centered perfectly and I was able to expand its image out to get more of its screen face filled, without any re-aiming. I am sure that will be true on yours too.

Which was why when my set was new I could re-aim my outer 2 guns to optimize the centering of my images on each gun, resulting in the ensuing ability to expand those images out to the very max for all 3 guns. While it was still new enough to have virgin phosphors, that is.

Who knows, yours might have been ideally aimed already on your 65813, possibly resulting in your ability to have maximized your guns' screen face usage without even having to re-aim them.

While it was still virgin phosphors, of course. Could not do that now on yours, because of the aging footprint. Mine could not be changed now either, years later, for the same reason.

b

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Last edited by Mr Bob; 07-15-2014 at 08:59 AM.
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post #12510 of 12733 Old 07-15-2014, 09:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by barrelbelly View Post
The older Panasonic models that you can easily find on EBay handles !080i with ease. And they are much better than the newer Panny models with all of the DRM restrictions IMO. I have the classic Panasonic DMP-BD35. And will never part with it for the newer restricted models.
My Panasonic BD-10A stopped working and I have shelved it until fixed, but it has a very special capacity that I learned about from Mike Parker on the Screenshot War thread. You might want to check out yours and see if yours has it.

It's a set of gamma settings in the player's internal menu that provides for the infamous Gamma Bump, which is present in Moome boxes and projector boards, and HD Fury's Gamma X add-on. A few others have copied this enhancement also, which I am relatively sure Moome started.

This allows for enhanced shadow detail in the mid-gray light level areas without changing the Brightness/Black Level setting, keeping the blacks crystal clear and inky black. You can't get that bump-up of those 10-30 IRE light level zones from any Brightness or Black Level control, as changing the BR/BL controls to bring out the shadow detail more also changes the blacks and makes them gray instead. You can only get this from special processing, which keeps the blacks ultra black like they should be while bumping up only the mid grays, which are always challenging to see clearly. Especially if you have any kind of projection set - CRT obviously but also DLP, LCOS, SXRD and D-ILA included, front or rear projection - and the optics are not immaculately clean as we speak.

Check out and see if yours has it! You might get lucky.

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Last edited by Mr Bob; 07-15-2014 at 09:29 AM.
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