Don't dump your CRT RPTV! - Page 421 - AVS Forum
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post #12601 of 12618 Old 09-01-2014, 07:06 AM
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Can anyone think of why my pro720 is plenty bright when watching cable but when I try to watch hulu through my ps3 the picture is very very dark.
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post #12602 of 12618 Old 09-01-2014, 08:50 AM
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I would ask on the PS3 thread.

Downloadable FREE demo discs:

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Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #12603 of 12618 Old 09-01-2014, 08:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Many players have a Brighter/Darker election, which allows for matching up that player to your other sources, for similar light levels. If your PS3 has one, set it to Brighter.

If your optics were crystal clear, it would be easier to see shadow detail on both. Unless you have cleaned your optics or had them cleaned - including the deeper optics on your model - since new, they are so dirty you would not believe the difference once clean again.

Contact me if you want it done right and absolutely safely. Those optical surfaces are plastic - very very soft - and once damaged cannot be saved.

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post #12604 of 12618 Old 09-04-2014, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firebrick View Post
Can anyone think of why my pro720 is plenty bright when watching cable but when I try to watch hulu through my ps3 the picture is very very dark.
I am assuming you are talking about a Pioneer Elite PRO720HD yes?

Are they operating on different physical inputs and/or with different resolutions? The Elites have separate settings in some of these cases... If this is indeed true, it may easily be adjusted via the discrete settings in the Service Menu (Brightness, Contrast, Detail, Edge Enhancement)...but you have to know what you are doing, or you can cause a great deal more damage (READ: Serious damage). I've probably made Bob cringe by even bringing it up... but it's true. ;-)

This is assuming it's the set's calibration and not the player as Bob suggested.

Bob's coaching is always valuable...

Joe
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post #12605 of 12618 Old 09-08-2014, 05:33 PM
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Free Pioneer Elite Pro510 and 610 in Seattle area

Since some people are focused on these sets in this thread, I thought I risk a plug for 2 sets that I have. Cut and paste from the classifieds area...

[update 8/29] In Craigslist...

[update]: Because I'm a nice guy (and really don't want to take these to the dump), I reflowed the solder on the 610 PS. The 510 PS sounds find but the 610 PS does make noise - sounds like it is coming from the transformer but I ran the unit for an hour and it worked fine. Both need a pro setup (Mr. Bob comes to mind) but the on board convergence will get you part of the way. Lens on the 610 is a bit dusty so I'm guessing the 510 is as well. Still good viewing in daylight.

I have a 510HD (12/2000) and a 610HD (5/2001) available to anyone who will come and get them. Power supply board has been resoldered on the 510 and I think the 610 needs it as well - can do that for you if that sweetens the deal.
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post #12606 of 12618 Old 09-09-2014, 12:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgruessing68 View Post
I am assuming you are talking about a Pioneer Elite PRO720HD yes?

Are they operating on different physical inputs and/or with different resolutions? The Elites have separate settings in some of these cases... If this is indeed true, it may easily be adjusted via the discrete settings in the Service Menu (Brightness, Contrast, Detail, Edge Enhancement)...but you have to know what you are doing, or you can cause a great deal more damage (READ: Serious damage). I've probably made Bob cringe by even bringing it up... but it's true. ;-)

This is assuming it's the set's calibration and not the player as Bob suggested.

Bob's coaching is always valuable...

Joe
Thanks, Joe. Always refreshing to see you here.



If the settings are changed in the service menu - and yes you can do more harm that good with your first keystroke of the remote in there - they will affect the scanrate they were changed in, universally, no matter which input you are showing your video on.

The User is the only place you may be able to change the brightness to be set one way on one input and another way on another input. If so, then you can just use a different input for each need.

b

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post #12607 of 12618 Old 09-12-2014, 01:35 PM
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Just dropping by to say hi to good old friends.

Going strong Bob!!!

My Hit is at my father in law's and still going strong. Not giving up on RPCRT.

"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."

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post #12608 of 12618 Old 09-13-2014, 08:30 AM
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Time to let it go

Pioneer pro-610 that had the pwr supply problem, was re-soldered by Mr. Bob in 2012, but now appears it is back. This TV is in the North Shore area of MA and still seems to be working fine other than the screen going dark every now and then. I am moving on. Would anyone be interested in purchasing this TV? Price negotiable.
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post #12609 of 12618 Old 09-13-2014, 10:58 AM - Thread Starter
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I have been doing this repair for more than 10 years, the number of sets I have saved with this process has to be approaching 100 by now if not more than that, and my lifetime warranty applies to each and every one of them, even those I resoldered years before I came up with the lifetime warranty promise. Not just for original owner, for EVERYBODY. If I resoldered that PS board I will stand behind it.

Send that board back to me and let me go over it and see if it needs attention. It could be something else in the set - a breakdown of the focus block (tho I have never seen that happen on a Pioneer), whatever. Or something else wrong in the set itself (tho that generally doesn't happen either aside from convergence repairs, which are quite standard issue for CRT). But if it truly is the PS board needing attention, I will take care of that, no charge.

I will keep these sets alive and producing great HD for as long as humanly possible. And having come onto the market in 1999 and it's 2014 now, and they are still surviving masterfully, you can see that they could last indefinitely, with the proper maintenance and eventual gun replacements. Hell of a design on these puppies!

Whoever winds up with it, get that board to me. Let's make sure and cover that base before moving forward to other possibilities.

b

PS - Great to hear from you Leo!


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post #12610 of 12618 Old 09-16-2014, 07:05 PM
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Full time lurker here, ready to put my 510HD to rest. Streaming media, a dearth of component out equipment, 1080p sources, and a lack of HDMI compatibility has sounded the death knell for this piece of RP history.

Just unplugged the unit last week. Superb cabinet, board reflowed by Mr Bob, in need of a lens cleaning (never got around to this). Located in upstate SC. PM w/offer if interested.

Please don't harangue me. As Neil Sedaka said "Breaking up is hard to do".

... and Mr Tivo is watching anxiously.

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post #12611 of 12618 Old 09-17-2014, 08:18 AM - Thread Starter
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The HDMI issue is a non-issue. HD Fury has taken care of that, and now has evolved into the "3D HD Fury" IV, for those of you having 1080p tech.

1080p is something that has been able to successfully convince people to move on from CRT until now. The HD Fury IV has a built-in scaler that can either upconvert or downconvert, your choice, and it is a much more affordable/cost effective option that buying new and suffering the short lifespan of all the new display tech out there. In this case it can take beautiful, gorgeous 1080p from Roku or Apple TV or anything else 1080p, and back-convert it to beautiful, gorgeous 1080i, making streaming usable for our CRT sets.

In short, it makes it so that anyone getting the 510 in question here will be capable of using all the latest technology out there except for 3D. Which is still not mainstream or universal, and may never be. I know many who couldn't care less.

The need for regular optics cleaning is scant compared to drawbacks inherent in fixed pixel tech, such as those I list in the very first post of this thread, including the need to change lamps every few years for fixed pixel projection tech. If, like the owner here, you owners have not yet had that optics cleaning done on your set yet, no wonder it looks like your set is worn out. IT IS NOT! Its beauty is simply being hidden from view by all the dust attracted to the optical surfaces by the high voltage. SIMPLE. That situation can be cured by spending an hour on the phone with me and doing it yourself, at your own location. Or having me do it for you.

Owners should think twice before moving on from CRT. NOTHING out there is lasting as long, and the pictures our CRT sets have always been capable of still continue to stand tall with everything else out there. Please observe the screenshots on this thread and others that feature CRT tech, from sets that have been fully dialed in, the way their designers always intended. They are stunning.



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post #12612 of 12618 Old 09-17-2014, 12:40 PM
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We have Pioneer Elite Pro 630HD, purchased in 2003. It has worked perfectly until approx. 6 months ago. One day I was watching TV, heard a loud noise (bang) and tv screen went black. Have been unable to find anyone in local area (East Texas) to diagnose and repair. Have discussed with Bob and he was willing to help me repair but I am physically unable to perform tasks required. May be something simple, just cannot confirm problem at this time. I am looking for someone to pickup for recycle (or I can deliver in local area).
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post #12613 of 12618 Old 09-18-2014, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post
The HDMI issue is a non-issue. HD Fury has taken care of that, and now has evolved into the "3D HD Fury" IV, for those of you having 1080p tech.

1080p is something that has been able to successfully convince people to move on from CRT until now. The HD Fury IV has a built-in scaler that can either upconvert or downconvert, your choice, and it is a much more affordable/cost effective option that buying new and suffering the short lifespan of all the new display tech out there. In this case it can take beautiful, gorgeous 1080p from Roku or Apple TV or anything else 1080p, and back-convert it to beautiful, gorgeous 1080i, making streaming usable for our CRT sets.

In short, it makes it so that anyone getting the 510 in question here will be capable of using all the latest technology out there except for 3D. Which is still not mainstream or universal, and may never be. I know many who couldn't care less.

The need for regular optics cleaning is scant compared to drawbacks inherent in fixed pixel tech, such as those I list in the very first post of this thread, including the need to change lamps every few years for fixed pixel projection tech. If, like the owner here, you owners have not yet had that optics cleaning done on your set yet, no wonder it looks like your set is worn out. IT IS NOT! Its beauty is simply being hidden from view by all the dust attracted to the optical surfaces by the high voltage. SIMPLE. That situation can be cured by spending an hour on the phone with me and doing it yourself, at your own location. Or having me do it for you.

Owners should think twice before moving on from CRT. NOTHING out there is lasting as long, and the pictures our CRT sets have always been capable of still continue to stand tall with everything else out there. Please observe the screenshots on this thread and others that feature CRT tech, from sets that have been fully dialed in, the way their designers always intended. They are stunning.



b
3D is also do-able. I have a Mits 46807 purchased in Oct 2001 that is still going strong. I'm using another manufacturer's HDMI-RGB converter (equivalent to the HDFury Mr Bob mentioned, along with a 3DTheater+ box that converts any 3D source to 60 Hz frame-sequential 3D that can be played on most TVs, even CRT RPTVs like mine. Paired with a Radiance VP that scales the 1080p to 1080i and provides automated grayscale and CMS calibration capabilities, this setup is simply stunning and still outperforms anything I've personally seen so far.

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post #12614 of 12618 Old 09-18-2014, 02:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Awesome! I thought we were stuck with needing the 720p capability to have 3D. This is jaw-dropping.

Do you see the scanlines easier on 3D? On my buddy's new 1080p OLED, the way they do the separation of the 2 images is to make each one 540p. This allows the scanlines to be markedly evident and visually distracting with what I call the "window-slat effect", just like 480p is on a 480p/1080i HD set compared to native 1080i. I am hoping they are able to fully utilize the 1080i capacity of our sets to keep the 3D showing up in full 1080i, without that window-slat effect of the 540p being very nearly the same as 480p.


But keep in mind that the Lumagens do nothing for the image structure - aside from rescaling it to size to get rid of the overscan built-in to all these sets. It's easier, I grant you that. But since it costs you screen face utilization and thus depth to do overscan reduction that way, reducing the overscan that way leaves a lot to be desired, in my book.

The only way for the structure of the set's image to be maximized/optimized and thus super-tight and exhibiting the highest of resoluction, is for both focuses - the mechanical and the electronic - to be at their best, the geometry to be solid, the convergence to be super-tight - mastering the personalities and idiosyncracies of each manufactuirer's design of their particuilar sets - and the projection optics sizzling clean. Optionally, kick in the overscan being reduced to where it should have been all along, either just electronically or mechanically plus electonically.

The Lumagens do wonders, I grant you that. But they only win half the battle. Unless and until all the rest of this is done, that part of the battle stays unwon. For any kind of appreciable crispness you have to sit moderately far away and suffer a smaller picture size. Only when it is all completely dialed in, on both image structure and the colorations, can you watch a picture much closer to the set and have it stay absolutely crisp, delivering a much bigger picture for you to be spirited away by and get lost in.

Only then do you really have the cat's meow.



b

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post #12615 of 12618 Old 09-18-2014, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
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Awesome! I thought we were stuck with needing the 720p capability to have 3D. This is jaw-dropping.

Do you see the scanlines easier on 3D? On my buddy's new 1080p OLED, the way they do the separation of the 2 images is to make each one 540p. This allows the scanlines to be markedly evident and visually distracting with what I call the "window-slat effect", just like 480p is on a 480p/1080i HD set compared to native 1080i. I am hoping they are able to fully utilize the 1080i capacity of our sets to keep the 3D showing up in full 1080i, without that window-slat effect of the 540p being very nearly the same as 480p.


But keep in mind that the Lumagens do nothing for the image structure - aside from rescaling it to size to get rid of the overscan built-in to all these sets. It's easier, I grant you that. But since it costs you screen face utilization and thus depth to do overscan reduction that way, reducing the overscan that way leaves a lot to be desired, in my book.

The only way for the structure of the set's image to be maximized/optimized and thus super-tight and exhibiting the highest of resoluction, is for both focuses - the mechanical and the electronic - to be at their best, the geometry to be solid, the convergence to be super-tight - mastering the personalities and idiosyncracies of each manufactuirer's design of their particuilar sets - and the projection optics sizzling clean. Optionally, kick in the overscan being reduced to where it should have been all along, either just electronically or mechanically plus electonically.

The Lumagens do wonders, I grant you that. But they only win half the battle. Unless and until all the rest of this is done, that part of the battle stays unwon. For any kind of appreciable crispness you have to sit moderately far away and suffer a smaller picture size. Only when it is all completely dialed in, on both image structure and the colorations, can you watch a picture much closer to the set and have it stay absolutely crisp, delivering a much bigger picture for you to be spirited away by and get lost in.

Only then do you really have the cat's meow.



b
No, sir. We don't see scanlines either in 2D or 3D. I did the overscan reduction in vertical height and horizontal width via the service menu using AVIA's overscan pattern and a Mylar screen template years ago. Of course, this necessitated geometry correction and mechanical/electrical focus as well. A lot of work, but it was worth it. The Lumagen only interlaces the 1080p into 1080i, as well as fine grayscale, gamma, and CMS correction.

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post #12616 of 12618 Old 09-19-2014, 04:10 PM
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Anyone near Bakersfield CA there is a WS-73513 on CL. I'd love to replace my WS-65313 with it but I can't pick it up. Thought I'd give a heads up if anyone is looking.
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post #12617 of 12618 Old 09-26-2014, 12:34 PM
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Been lurking this thread for a long time, and am hoping to find some help/ideas. I have a Mits WS-55411 that stopped working a couple of years ago and it's just been sitting around. The wife is finally forcing me to either sell it in a yard sale or dump it on the curb. I have tried troubleshooting the issue, but the common method of pressing some buttons to get an error code to flash doesn't work. The green light on the front comes on and remains solid no matter what, but I get no picture or sound. I called around and it would cost $150 just to have a repair tech come out and diagnose the problem, much less fix it. Should I just say goodbye finally?
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post #12618 of 12618 Old 09-27-2014, 08:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Since your set is not going into the "blinking green light of death" mode, you probably don't need to worry about the 4 or 7 caps in the DM module that go bad, and may or may not be visibly bulged out. Whenever the blinking happens upon plug-in - which is normal - and the blinking has not stopped again within 2 minutes - usually no more than 70 seconds, ideally more like 45 seconds - that capacitor fix usually takes care of it. Again, as I have mentioned before, the 1,000 mF caps should be replaced with 680mF caps, all else staying the same. This technical info straight from Mit.

If it were the convergence ICs, usually on a Mit when they croak it shuts down the unit or blows an IC protector, which also shuts down the unit, and replacing those parts generally fixes it.

In this case I would be suspicious of the coolant leaks that have plagued the Mit HDready sets. Unplug your set, remove the front cover down below between the speakers, and shine a strong flashlight across the boards on the floor of the set and see if there is the gleam of coolant having leaked out from the metal cowlings above those boards. And touch the lowest edge of those cowlings to see if there is any coolant ready to drip from them. The coolant is optical grade ethelyn glycol, probably with glycerin in it, and will have the feel of anti-freeze on your fingers. Needless to say, don't allow that stuff to stay on your hands, wash it off promptly.

The 2 boards on the left can always be repaired but the one on the right, beneath the blue gun, is a 4 layer board and once it has had coolant drip on it, it's usually history. If it can be saved at all, it usually takes someone highly experienced to save it. Meaning probably way more than $150. But since your set originally cost far more than that, I think it would be a worthy investment, if you can save or replace that board.

If all indicators point to getting rid of your set and you have liked its performance up till now because of the unique benefits of CRT over fixed pixel formats - see page 1 of this thread, very first post, by me - I suggest you find another one being given away somewhere near you, as is happening all over the place right now. Check ebay and craigslist. And if you want a bigger one, now's your chance. Whenever someone contacts me that they want to move their set on, I always refer them back to this thread, where the admin doesn't mind that they appear because they are being given away and not sold. If sold they need to appear in the For Sale section of AVS. So here/this thread is another good source of CRT sets being literally given away. Which leaves tons of room for improvement of your picture, once you have carted it home. I will be here for that, always.

Since no boards are available from Mit anymore, if that Signal board under the blue gun has been hit with coolant and the coolant has invaded any of the flat pack ICs on that board, that board is usually toast and you'll have to find a replacement board online. Or set.

b

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Last edited by Mr Bob; 09-27-2014 at 09:32 AM.
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