Don't dump your CRT RPTV! - Page 426 - AVS Forum
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post #12751 of 12780 Old 11-05-2014, 08:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by UofAZ1 View Post

Just wish my VP-30 could do a better job instead of bob and weave of 1080i source material but to tell you the truth not sure if I'd notice that much as by reducing my overscan and putting it in proper picture size my image now looks even better than my 1080p LED and 720p plasma TV's
What's the bob and weave method?



b

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post #12752 of 12780 Old 11-05-2014, 10:25 PM
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What's the bob and weave method?



b
Bob and weave method, defined:

Weave asked Bob to fix our TV.
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post #12753 of 12780 Old 11-06-2014, 12:01 PM
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Meaning that the PS board is floor mounted and not vertically mounted against the bulkhead? If so, if the PS board is floor mounted, I agree that it's probably not the PS board causing this phenom. On the vertically mounted PS boards I have never heard of individual colors going temporarily intermittent like that.

But it still sounds like a thermal. Like a cold solder joint somewhere. Great that you have parts you can swap out! Very few have that opportunity.

Don't get rid of your Pioneer before you try out the DLP. You may not like the lack of crystal clear inky black you won't get with a DLP.

BTW, if it's a Mit 82" then it's an LCOS, not a DLP. Both being bulb driven, neither one has blacks that can compare with CRT.

b


Yes its the floor mounted PS board. I asked you about this before.
I have all the boards to swap out, guess I will try the PS board first.
Its a roll of the dice at this point. Hate to toss it out......I agree the pq is awesome on these.

I eyeballed the 82 Mits before I bought it and it is a DLP for sure. PQ is close to a CRT.
If they would not have been out of the 92" I would have that. On closeout........went to buy the wife a cook top and came home with a 82 inch tv. She not happy but I did fix the cook top.
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post #12754 of 12780 Old 11-06-2014, 01:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, keeping the wife happy is the highest priority! Big screens are a far distant second.



The premiere Mit 82" was LCOS, but they may have converted to DLP later. Both Liquid Crystal on Silicon and Digital Light Projection (moving micro mirror) are reflective technologies. I have never seen the 92". There was also laser projection in there in that time frame.

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post #12755 of 12780 Old 11-06-2014, 01:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post
Bob and weave method, defined:

Weave asked Bob to fix our TV.
I shoulda known...







b

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post #12756 of 12780 Old 11-06-2014, 07:09 PM
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...


The premiere Mit 82" was LCOS, but they may have converted to DLP later. Both Liquid Crystal on Silicon and Digital Light Projection (moving micro mirror) are reflective technologies. I have never seen the 92". There was also laser projection in there in that time frame.

b
Yeah, there was a DLP series where the sweet spot, in my opinion, was the 73 inch (73838 was a great image), which was followed by the very good 82 inch, and the somewhat light challenged 90 inch. Remarkably, they used the same wattage UHP lamp in the 90 inch as in the 73, which was odd. They tried to compensate with a semi-clear screen, but it was still underpowered and dim.
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post #12757 of 12780 Old 11-06-2014, 08:34 PM - Thread Starter
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The jump in screen size between 73 inch and 90 inch is huge. If 30% more area on the 90, then the lamp needed to have been 30 percent brighter on the 90 inch to keep the same amount of light level as on the 73 inch.

We see this all the time on the ceiling projectors. The move from an 8 foot wide screen to a 10 foot wide screen requires double stacking the projectors because you run out of oomph after 8' when it's only 1 projector.

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post #12758 of 12780 Old 11-06-2014, 08:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Don't know why they would use a clear screen - or even a frosted - when a fresnel gathers the light from the sides and top/bottom and beams it straight to you and the lenticular disperses it properly. The combo used in our sets can't be beat already! It puts out noticeably more light level than the frosted translucent screens often used for rear projection.

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post #12759 of 12780 Old 11-07-2014, 09:52 AM
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Semi-clear may not have been the best choice of words. The screen used in the 82 and 90 XXX40 series was called the Clear Contrast Screen. Its goal was to increase contrast and black levels, by reducing the effect of ambient light.

The appearance to my eye compared to the screen used in the 73 and smaller models was that the new screens had less of a frosty, opaque look. Whatever Mits claimed was the design objective, it seemed to me that they were concerned about getting more light to the screen, given that they were using the same bulb in the the 82 and 90.

I wanted that 90 inch set, but couldn't tolerate that dim bulb, and even called Mits to suggest they increase the wattage of the 90's bulb. The ratioanle for using the same bulb was EnergyStar, but given the problems that DLP RPTVs had (and LCOS/SXRD), I also think they were trying to limit heat getting to the light engine. A higher wattage standard UHP bulb would have generated more heat, as well as light. Too bad they didn't consider LED.

Heat can be destructive to DLP and LCOS RPTVs. In the case of DLP, both heat and accumulation of static charges on the micromirrors resulted in frozen (non-moving) mirrors, and the dreaded light or dark spots. In the case of LCOS as implemented in the RPTV designs, heat caused separation of the elements that composed the LCOS engine, with the result being the yellow or green blobs appearing on the projected image.

DLP and LCOS (or SXRD) are more robustly built in projectors, which are also designed for better ventilation.

As in many if the Mits RPTVs, the speakers were pretty decent, and some of these DLPs had 16 speaker arrays wherein some of the drivers could be moved a la the Yamaha soundbar scheme to provided guided room reflection and a somewhat convincing surround sound effect.

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post #12760 of 12780 Old 11-07-2014, 10:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Are they still fresnel/lenticular combos, just clearer? Or plain frosted screens, just clearer?

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post #12761 of 12780 Old 11-07-2014, 11:10 AM
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Honestly, I don't know, but from memory (based on seeing it a few times) it didn't look like our lenticular screens. It appeared fairly smooth.

Apparently the Clear Contrast Screen used in the 2011 82 inch gave way in 2012 to a hybrid Clear Contrast/semi matte screen, probably because the Clear Contrast screen was so reflective.
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post #12762 of 12780 Old 11-07-2014, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
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Honestly, I don't know, but from memory (based on seeing it a few times) it didn't look like our lenticular screens. It appeared fairly smooth.

Apparently the Clear Contrast Screen used in the 2011 82 inch gave way in 2012 to a hybrid Clear Contrast/semi matte screen, probably because the Clear Contrast screen was so reflective.
Yes mine is def a DLP and the 82 did get a more matte finish screen.

I would rather have the clear contrast screen, In theory they give more pop to the pic I assume due to more light. However my old Pioneer has a very clear shiny screen and the reflection from any light source is horrific.

But since I have mine in the dark man cave reflections are not an issue so I would have preferred the clear contrast screen but it wasnt available as said in 2012. I agree on the 92 being dim, have heard other complaints as well. The screen on my 2012 82 is a hybrid matte clear screen so it is a compromise and since I got for 1999.99 18 months ago and 3 yr 0 interest Im not complaining. It was the best of the best diamond series as well.
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post #12763 of 12780 Old 11-07-2014, 08:43 PM
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If the chassis is the same, you could probably swap out for the Clear Contrast screen. Somebody might be getting rid of their set, possibly one in disrepair.
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post #12764 of 12780 Old 11-08-2014, 10:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes, if the throw distance - from lens to screen - is the same on both. And size. One should go with the other automatically. Should be a direct sub, if those 2 are the same on both sets.

b

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post #12765 of 12780 Old 11-08-2014, 12:12 PM
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I'm fairly sure they used the same chassis, but I can't be 100%. Knowing how they clung to that same UHP lamp for most of their sets, I can't imagine them retooling for what seemed minor variations, year to year.

But a call to Mits might be informative. (Tech support, nowadays!)
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post #12766 of 12780 Old 11-08-2014, 01:51 PM
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One of my neighbors responded to my ad for my Pioneer 53" on NextDoor and then his wife overruled him. Darn!
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post #12767 of 12780 Old 11-08-2014, 07:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Why? Are you offing it?

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post #12768 of 12780 Old 11-08-2014, 07:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post
I'm fairly sure they used the same chassis, but I can't be 100%. Knowing how they clung to that same UHP lamp for most of their sets, I can't imagine them retooling for what seemed minor variations, year to year.

But a call to Mits might be informative. (Tech support, nowadays!)
Throw distance and size is all I need to know. I reserve calls to tech support for need to know's, and this would not qualify.



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post #12769 of 12780 Old 11-09-2014, 10:57 AM
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Throw distance and size is all I need to know. I reserve calls to tech support for need to know's, and this would not qualify.



b
Me no tell Bob call Mitsubishi
Me tell Jetmeck call Mitsubishi
Me think chassis, depth, height, width same, but not sure
Me think Bob should take day off, watch movie
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post #12770 of 12780 Old 11-09-2014, 01:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Me like that idea!



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post #12771 of 12780 Old 11-09-2014, 03:24 PM
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Why? Are you offing it?

b
It doesn't work with newer gear and I like the picture on my 55" LED better using a cinema setting. The LED eats far less electricity too. I'm also realizing that unless someone has an older STB from some of the providers they won't be able to use the old set for much. This may be a particularly hard sell for someone who doesn't know electronics but thinks it might make a fine TV for the rec room.
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post #12772 of 12780 Old 11-09-2014, 05:08 PM - Thread Starter
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It works fine with the newer gear as long as you equip it for HDMI, which can be done for around $200 with an HD fury II, or under 200 if you use the original HD Fury on your set's RGBHV input. This will allow it to use virtually anything available today, as it all uses HDMI these days.

Its longevity beats the pants off anything you'll buy new today, and nothing affordable will give you the blacks your Pioneer CRT is capable of. I'll put your fully dialed in and cleaned Pioneer CRT up against your LED and it will stand tall and most likely be a lot bigger, for next to nothing compared to buying similar Elite-grade quality new. And very possibly trump it, if your LED is one of the super affordables. How long since your set was cleaned and calibrated? Seems like at least 3 years...

You've got me on the use of electricity. Perhaps you'll save so much by replacing it that your new equipment costs will pale by comparison. Then again...

I agree it might be a hard sell for a non-electronics person, but guidance is available for a lot less than the price of new, short lived equipment that will most likely need to be replaced in a fraction of the time yours has already lasted, and yours still has many more years in it ready to go.

Your choice, just wanted to make sure all the cards were on the table...

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post #12773 of 12780 Old 11-12-2014, 06:37 AM
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Hi, Brand : Toshiba
Model : 43JH9UM equivalent to 43CJH9UR, 43JH9UE, 43JH9UT
Description : 43" RPTV (R,B,G Guns), 8 Years old
Service Manual and Circuit : http://monitor.net.ru/forum/pafiledb...5eead7cdce.pdf
Power Board : PD1930A
Problem : No High Voltage, Low voltage is present
History : The extension wire connected to the tv shorted out, but the tv was fine until i closed it and reopened, there was no power, fuse was blown, changed it but no power again,
took to some of the local electricians they denied help with projection tv's, one of them replaced the power resistor (R811) which seemed to fix the power supply but only the leds and power light was on there was no high voltage no hissings, the caps wont charge or anything if i pressed the power button on the remote only the leds would turn off and on My Experience : Soldering, and meter testing(using google) from 1-10 il give myself a 3.

Need Help Thanks !!
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post #12774 of 12780 Old 11-13-2014, 05:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Well it took me a while to make out what you were saying due to your not using any punctuation, but...

Now that I get it, I have to bow out because Toshiba is not something I work on except for convergence issues. You kinda have to be a Tosh specialist already, and I found them not too technician friendly in the few jaunts I took into their circuitry.

But I welcome anybody else on this thread who can help!

b

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post #12775 of 12780 Old 11-13-2014, 11:16 PM
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Hey bob, sorry about not using any punctuations i basically copied this from another thread which was in bullet format but the format was lost when i posted it.
Anways i am a tosh expert interms of service menu but i dont have any idea about the circuitry.
Another thing i shorted something out on the board just to see what happens then the power turned on high voltage kicked in caps made a very shrieking sound got charged but i smelled something burning and turned it off now even the the low voltage is gone
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post #12776 of 12780 Old 11-14-2014, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
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You shorted something out just to see what would happen???

What is visible in a situation like this is just the tip of the iceberg. That's what instruments are for, to get you data that is invisible. What you did is hard to say, but obviously not good.

Domino effects happen instantaneously and who knows how far out they go. You have just upped the ante about 10 fold on this repair. There's no telling what shape your board is in now, much less the rest of your set.



We will pray for you.

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post #12777 of 12780 Old 11-16-2014, 12:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Just a reminder, I fly out to Balt/WADC tomorrow, to repair and calibrate a Mit 73909 for an owner in MD. At present I fly back on Thursday but would love to stay back East for a few more days instead, and calibrate a few more displays. Or do optics cleaning on any projection system, as they all need it eventually, not just CRT.

Or change a lamp or a DMD chip with black or white dots. Or cure a convergence problem.

Let me know as much ahead of time as you can, if you want my loving hands on your display and to leave you far better off than before in your suspension of disbelief and your ability to get away from it all. And for a very long time...



b

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post #12778 of 12780 Old 11-21-2014, 07:54 PM
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WOW!!! Just as a follow-up, just had my visit with Mr. Bob Jones, who worked tirelessly for two full (at least 12 hour) days on my Mitsubishi 73909.

Picture is like never before -- absolutely perfect (ah, yes -- Image Perfection. Now I get it!). The application of his knowledge and skills brought out the full potential of this set, and I am truly appreciative. Believe me, I have spent a goodly amount of time today watching all manner of movies, sports, etc thoroughly enjoying the superior picture I had been missing. I am sure that much of what he did would never even occur to 99 percent of others. And, I think he was a bargain.

I understand he has another engagement or two here on the East Coast -- not sure when he now plans to return to California, just know that he extended his trip here for a few more days. Get him if you can!

Anyway, Highly Recommended. Just wanted to take a moment to give credit where it is due.
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post #12779 of 12780 Unread Yesterday, 09:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Len, it was an absolute pleasure spending time with you here in Maryland. And that place you kept taking me for our meals! OMG. What was the name of it? Had a real ordinary name, but with genuinely extraordinary food at all times. Something Tavern...

Len's WS 73909 turned out really spectacular. It is how many years old...at least 10 years - and Len can testify that it came out looking APPRECIABLY better than new. Since it had the HD tuner built in, I was able to perform the realignment of the color paradigm to get rid of the red push and restore vividness to the blues and greens, that the Mit's always make suffer because of their dedication to red push (not a grayscale term, BTW, strictly a color decoding term. The grayscale is now totally at ISF standards but the color is totally linear now, instead of red pushed, which translates to blue-green diminish.) His color is fully alive and real now, like it should have been all along.

Yesterday I started on a WS 65813 in Boyds, MD, not far away. After doing the same repair as I did on Len's, the caps replacement to cure the Green Blinking Light of Death, the set would not come on, and finally started coming on sporadically but with a strange pattern involving the user menu and right-scrolling highlighting of the device menu. Finally tried the front buttons, which cured the problem. Some of them stick after many years. Now working gangbusters.

As I did with Len's we did the grayscale last night because it had gotten dark, but did not have time for the color decoder realignment, it was midnight before I could call a valid stopping point, and I still had a half hour drive back to the hotel. So that will have to happen today along with the shimming op and the entire image structure re-setup.

On both of these sets I have also been called upon to do the CraigR anti-ringing mod, and I brought the proper trimmer caps for that as well. According to Len there was a major difference in crispness after that mod on his set, and I am sure the same will be true later today on Jim's set. This mod separates the men from the boys, it puts our CRT RPTVs into the ceiling projector class in terms of crispness.

My incredible thanks to Craig Rounds for that mod, which only someone who is intrepid with electronics - as Craig is - and loves to poke around into the capacities of different ICs would have stumbled across. I helped him edit his white paper on the subject, and could not be more grateful to him for being exposed to it.

Thank you Craig!



I fly out Sunday to go back home to CA, and to add to my trip now would cost a pretty penny for changing the return plane flight to a later date now, so I don't expect any new calibrations or repairs on this trip and will be glad to do so if it's worth it to the owner. But I would love also to come back here at some future time. Len and I had a great time cracking each other up on this calibration, and I would dearly love to come back and watch another movie with him on his now-magnificent set. So let me know if you live in this area and want your set done!



b

Robert Jones
Image Perfection
510-278-4247
650-333-4808 cell
bob at imageperfection dot com
www.projectiontvtroubleshootingadvice.com
YouTube channel: mrbobbigscreen


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post #12780 of 12780 Unread Yesterday, 09:19 AM - Thread Starter
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On this WS 65813 I am working on, Jim uses both the DVI input and the component input, each for a different source. I fully ISF'd the DVI input last night, but it looked terrible once I changed to the component input. Tested and came to find that the changes I made to the DVI input stay in service mode while in the component input too, but are not correct for the component input. To change the component input settings will change the DVI settings too, which I DON'T want to do!

I have a workaround for this - using the Low vs. the High color temp settings - but it will involve changing the color temp every time you change inputs. If anybody out there has figured a way around this without that User workaround, I am all ears! Call me on my cell, as I will not be getting emails or checking this thread while working today. My cell is 650-333-4808.

Thanks -

b

Robert Jones
Image Perfection
510-278-4247
650-333-4808 cell
bob at imageperfection dot com
www.projectiontvtroubleshootingadvice.com
YouTube channel: mrbobbigscreen

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