Don't dump your CRT RPTV! - Page 430 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #12871 of 12900 Unread 02-15-2015, 12:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Glad you heard that. It's important.

I'll be glad to guide you thru the rest, upon request offline. Contact me and we'll talk about it -



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post #12872 of 12900 Unread 02-16-2015, 05:12 AM
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I will need to find someone around here in Southern NH to quote me a price.


Thanks!
Mr. Bob is WELL WORTH flying him in, and Highly Recommended. I did this last November (to Maryland) and am still amazed at the picture quality he brought to my Mits 73909.
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post #12873 of 12900 Unread 02-16-2015, 10:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, Len. And a more gregarious and pleasant host there never was!

Would love to come back again, just to have dinner with you again at The Tavern.



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post #12874 of 12900 Unread 02-16-2015, 08:37 PM
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Thanks Mr Bob.. One of these days i may need to do that. With my resent issues with my 65313 I forgot to mention why I retired her to my parents house. I was able to find and pick up another WS-65813 this one looks to be completely factory stock including the glare shield, which works for the kids TV. So I now have two of these beautiful black bohemoths for me and my family to enjoy.

I'll have to read up on the cutoffs and see if its something I feel comfortable doing myself. Thanks again for the advice.
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post #12875 of 12900 Unread 02-17-2015, 10:59 AM
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Hey guys,

About a year ago I picked up a Toshiba 57HX83 for free off a friend. I managed to resolve a lot of the convergence issues and have used it since.

Recently though, I've noticed that the picture has turned very dim. It's dim enough that a lot of things are just not viewable, and I'd like to repair this set instead of dropping money on a new one. I have brightness and contrast both turned up to 100% and I've cleaned the lenses and mirror but dark scenes are still very difficult to make out.

I've disabled the ALS feature too, so no automatic adjustments.

I haven't looked at the coolant as I'm not 100% sure what to look for.

There aren't too many resources that I've been able to find that help me accurately diagnose the issue so I was hoping you guys could point me down the right path.

Thanks!
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post #12876 of 12900 Unread 02-17-2015, 11:37 AM - Thread Starter
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I will be glad to usher you thru the realignment process for getting your light levels back. I do it all the time as part of my calibrations, but also do it on the phone with diligent and capable owners who are far away and don't want to take on the expenses of flying me in. Contact me and we'll set up a phone consultation.

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post #12877 of 12900 Unread 02-17-2015, 11:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Turnbough View Post
Thanks Mr Bob.. One of these days i may need to do that. With my resent issues with my 65313 I forgot to mention why I retired her to my parents house. I was able to find and pick up another WS-65813 this one looks to be completely factory stock including the glare shield, which works for the kids TV. So I now have two of these beautiful black bohemoths for me and my family to enjoy.

I'll have to read up on the cutoffs and see if its something I feel comfortable doing myself. Thanks again for the advice.
A 65813. You are stepping up in the world! Nothing beats those 9" guns, and with a 65" screen and glass front surface mirror, your set is actually brighter than mine!



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post #12878 of 12900 Unread 02-18-2015, 01:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Photomotoz View Post
Hey guys,

I haven't looked at the coolant as I'm not 100% sure what to look for.
Get into your set like you're going to do a lens and mirror cleaning. Remove the top portion of your lenses as if you're going for a deep optics cleaning. Now, look down in there. You should be able to see the phosphor screen (a white block). There should be an absolutely clear and clean fluid, essentially invisible to your eye, between the innermost lens and that screen.

A small air bubble may be visible, that's no problem. What is a problem is a bunch of green, brown, or whatever color fluid.

Take a look at some Google images - you can tell very easily if your coolant is okay or not. Changing it out is another matter, because you really don't want to spill it all over the inside of your set on the PCBs beneath!

The coolant itself is cheap and you can get it off of Amazon. If your coolant is garbage, call up Mr. Bob or someone to guide you through the process. You could try it yourself - but I'd remove my boards from below first, just in case.

On a different note, I came here to say I will *NEVER* buy a convergence IC from eBay again. Two in a row that were Chinese "look-a-like" fakes, sold as genuine Sanyos "NEW".
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post #12879 of 12900 Unread 02-18-2015, 09:44 AM - Thread Starter
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The best source for convergence ICs is www.tvrepairkits.com, where they have access to the original Sanyos. Union Electronics and MCM are also good places to get replacement ICs, tho they may not be the original Sanyos.

This entity also provides limited downloadable service manuals at half the price of other entities, like www.servicemanuals.net.

Not sure what set is involved with the coolant issue, but I have heard of no CRT RPTVs that are HDreadys that ever had that problem again, like the SD sets did. In the HD era, I have found that watching for "cooties in the coolant" has become a non-issue.

BTW, if you find an air bubble in there, just be sure it's out of the light path and it will also be a non-issue.

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post #12880 of 12900 Unread 02-18-2015, 10:36 PM
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WS-65813 for sale in Phoenix

Wow, I'm truly impressed with the length of this post.

Anyway, I'm in Phoenix, and have a WS-65813 to sell. It's been replaced with a plasma so we could regain some storage space under it for the kids' toys and games.

I'm the original owner. It was placed in a custom sized entertainment center, and sat there it's whole life. It's just shy of about 10 years old. The picture is still wonderful, but the only maintenance that's been done on it was to replace the 4 capacitors on the DM board to correct the blinking light problem.

Anybody in the area interested?
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post #12881 of 12900 Unread 02-19-2015, 06:01 AM
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Wow, I'm truly impressed with the length of this post.
?
So am I.
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post #12882 of 12900 Unread 02-19-2015, 10:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgivens View Post
Wow, I'm truly impressed with the length of this post.

Anyway, I'm in Phoenix, and have a WS-65813 to sell. It's been replaced with a plasma so we could regain some storage space under it for the kids' toys and games.

I'm the original owner. It was placed in a custom sized entertainment center, and sat there it's whole life. It's just shy of about 10 years old. The picture is still wonderful, but the only maintenance that's been done on it was to replace the 4 capacitors on the DM board to correct the blinking light problem.

Anybody in the area interested?
I would give second thoughts about offing it if I were you. I has the 9" guns, the only Mit 65" series that had that. In its present condition if it's never been cleaned or tweaked, it has the potential to look 10 times better than it does right now, and has at least 5 more years of life left, if not 10.

Why do you think this thread has been around so long??? I started it in 2006 and there are many many reasons why it has been around so long, all of them centering on how incredible these sets are!

And speaking of this thread, more than a million views so far. And that was last year...



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post #12883 of 12900 Unread 02-20-2015, 11:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Have I mentioned that these sets are capable of razor precision, in some cases better than fixed pixel? And a sense of depth that many flat panels can only dream of?

Come on over and experience mine and you'll see why so many of us are choosing to keep our CRT RPTVs, rather than going fixed pixel.

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post #12884 of 12900 Unread 02-22-2015, 10:37 PM
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Hi my parents have a 65 Mitsubishi crt rphdtv, think it was like 1600 when new many yrs ago. Dont remember the model number off hand, just that its a 330lb monster though!

The picture displayed is about 1 & 1/2 to 2"s to large! Is there a way without special service tools, to slightly shrink the displayed image? Thanks
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post #12885 of 12900 Unread 02-22-2015, 11:18 PM - Thread Starter
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It's called overscan, and all CRT RPTVs were born with it, regardless of size of screen. A 73" has the same amount of overscan as a 40", regardless of brand.

Unfortunately when you alter the sizing registers of height and width to properly size your picture to your screen, all sorts of things come unhinged about the picture. Straight lines become curved, parallel lines become slanted against each other...in short your picture, while still watchable, becomes hosed. Whatever precision your picture had before you do it, that's just gone. I always recommend carefully making note of EXACTLY where the sizing registers started out before doing anything, so that when you see what has happened to your picture and how bad it has just become, you can get it back again with no fuss by following that bread crumbs trail back to where you started. On a Hitachi, that means carefully marking the height and width trimpots with very thin lines that go across the movable and non-movable sections so that when you turn those controls back to where you started, that line is again unbroken.

But overscan CAN be cured. It just takes a lot of very careful work, and there's no substitute for experience either. I specialize at it, but charge extra in my calibrations because even tho the end result is actually better than the original out of box condition, it takes extra hours to get there even when you are highly experienced at it.

And each brand has its own personality. There are special tricks I do with the bottom and top of the screen on Mit's, plus averaging the convergence error on the sides at their ends, and along with that I also work with the spacing of the vertical lines on the Pioneers. And the shaping of the boxes of the internal grid, to get them much more linear with each other after the sizing alterations. Both of those brands have an invisible row and column outside the actual viewable area of the screen that allow what is on the screen to be aided, and that is also very specialized work.

But it can be done. And your set will look marvelously better afterwards, along with being able to finally see lost areas of video real estate that are currently hitting the sides of the blackened optical cavity inside your set, and invisible to your eyes without having your view screen off. Like that guest who was just on the Tonight Show and is now in second chair next to the guest currently up. With overscan having been taken care of, you will now see the many antics of the guest who was just on, where that would not show up before, with the overscan in place. The giggles, the eyes directly on camera and looking at you the viewer, the body language... All this is lost with the factory-issue overscan in place.

It can be done with just the service menu, but the best way is called the shimming op, where you elevate the entire CRT array a few inches to resize things that way. It's a lot more work, but you put more of the CRT face area in play and viewable that way and wind up with a picture with more depth later, than if you just use the service menu.

If you do choose to use the service menu only, you might want to instead spring for a Lumagen processor, where you can alter the size of the image in it, before sending it on to your screen. It's not as good as the shimming op, but is as good as resizing via the service menu only, if you can afford that processor. Having the processor do all the resizing frees you from having to correct all the sloppiness later, caused by doing it either of the other 2 ways.

If you want my coaching on how to do it without making your picture worse in the process, I am available for that. Or just fly me in and turn me loose.



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post #12886 of 12900 Unread 02-23-2015, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
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I am going to Portland Oregon and surrounding areas for a week at the end of March. I would love to schmooze with fellow CRT RPTV afficianados while there. Please contact me directly - not by pm please, do it by email - so we can find each other once I am up there. Beaverton, Hillsboro (home of Planar, the new owner of Runco), Milwaukie, Vancouver, Oregon City, Lake Oswego, Wilsonville...

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post #12887 of 12900 Unread 02-26-2015, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post
I would give second thoughts about offing it if I were you. I has the 9" guns, the only Mit 65" series that had that. In its present condition if it's never been cleaned or tweaked, it has the potential to look 10 times better than it does right now, and has at least 5 more years of life left, if not 10.

Why do you think this thread has been around so long??? I started it in 2006 and there are many many reasons why it has been around so long, all of them centering on how incredible these sets are!

And speaking of this thread, more than a million views so far. And that was last year...



b
I had same TV (and another mitsu RPTV) fully Craig Miller calibrated. He was quite good and lets be honest a lot of people used his methods/techniques and still do

I've had a few Plasmas since the RPTV; and I've never once missed my RPTV.

However, it's not 2006 anymore ... and to continue being honest...

new 4K 10bit OLED(s)
new 10bit 4K FALD 2015 LCD(s)

Both will out perform the 9" gunned RPTV in many, many ways. Speaking for the OLED I can't think of one thing the CRT RPTV does better.

I think a lot of people are just holding on a bit longer; or maybe don't have the budget yet for a $4-8k TV again. I know I don't! But I wouldn't swap my current set back for my old RPTV; even with new 9" guns, fresh geometry, convergence, gamma, WB, CMS adjusted, ringing filters, blacked out, I2C hacks (and so many other tweaks).

Once you see a 4K OLED in a light controlled room (or even daylight compared to a RPTV) playing "old" 1080p BR material you'll be blown away. Then when you see something that has been mastered in 10bit (and I don't mean HDR or 4k). It's mind blowing. 4K in 10bit itself is quite good too though

Prices on them will drop in next 18 months. And for those who can afford it, more power to them!

I myself am waiting for the price drop


I'm sure someone on here like yourself might want the rptv then... It is a fun hobby if you're an electronic person and are into tweaking stuff. As well own a colorimeter or photo-spectrometer. I have 1000's of hours in my old RPTVs and all of my friends doing all sorts of work. Now I'm trying to see if anyone wants my 65" Mylar Grids... So far no takers for free... To the trash they'll go sometime this year I guess.

So if there IS a DIY person who wants to take this puppy on, you'll need the grids I'm offering; for free. Find my classified AD on here...

-SiGGy

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post #12888 of 12900 Unread 02-26-2015, 09:21 PM - Thread Starter
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I hear you. I have seen the 4K OLED and have been blown away myself. There truly is nothing the CRT can do better, I know that. It will eventually take CRT's place.

But till then - till the prices come down on still highly advanced tech - I have seen OLED out there in the marketplace, and I have seen 4K, but not both in the same TV - 4K OLED - being sold, not yet - I am sticking with the next best thing. I have never been an early adopter. Have never had that kind of cash.

And I have learned a few things myself from Craig Miller! Watched him do a cal once, had to come back 5 hours after he started the reconvergence process to watch him finish the job, since he always took every cursor point on every color back to zero to start completely from scratch. He was the consummate perfectionist. One thing he taught me was how to isolate colors in the convergence menu.

Yes it is a great hobby, but still saves owners who don't have the scratch for buying new thousands, by being able to capture the essence of a new piece from having their old piece looking better than new every night. It's rewarding too.



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post #12889 of 12900 Unread Yesterday, 05:35 AM
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Quote:
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I hear you. I have seen the 4K OLED and have been blown away myself. There truly is nothing the CRT can do better, I know that. It will eventually take CRT's place.

But till then - till the prices come down on still highly advanced tech - I have seen OLED out there in the marketplace, and I have seen 4K, but not both in the same TV - 4K OLED - being sold, not yet - I am sticking with the next best thing. I have never been an early adopter. Have never had that kind of cash.

And I have learned a few things myself from Craig Miller! Watched him do a cal once, had to come back 5 hours after he started the reconvergence process to watch him finish the job, since he always took every cursor point on every color back to zero to start completely from scratch. He was the consummate perfectionist. One thing he taught me was how to isolate colors in the convergence menu.

Yes it is a great hobby, but still saves owners who don't have the scratch for buying new thousands, by being able to capture the essence of a new piece from having their old piece looking better than new every night. It's rewarding too.



b
Yes, and honestly the 9" gunned CRT RPTV when properly tweaked is quite amazing in its own regard. And there is only one plasma that can match its blacks, but it has to be modified to do so. As well to the CRTs defense the terms "dithering" or "PWM noise" are not even part of its vocabulary.

-SiGGy
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post #12890 of 12900 Unread Yesterday, 06:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Absolutely. Nor strobing on movement/panning, nor pasty complexions, nor "daytime soap opera" effect, nor stairstepping on pastel gradations, nor "busy-ness" - movement - in static areas like stationary walls, tho even CRT has that when it's in the program material. Nor the needed "up"conversion from 1080i - which is what most broadcast content still is - to 1080p, to be played on today's 1080p fixed pixel sets. You have to trust that brand's algorithms for that 1080i->p upconversion, and some are simply very schlocky. CRT does not need to "up"convert 1080i at all, it can just leave it alone, pristine and unretouched. UNstomped-on.

Still many reasons to keep our sets. Thanks for contributing!



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post #12891 of 12900 Unread Yesterday, 03:44 PM
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Hello Mr. Bob,

As I told you offline, I have decided to offer my Pioneer Elite Pro-77 rear projection TV to anyone interested. I am hoping that a subscriber to this forum will acquire it and use it for years to come. It still works well and it has a classic black enamel cabinet. I have the original manuals for this TV and its remote. This unit has just been posted in the AVSForum classifieds, and is available free of charge to anyone who will pick it up at my home in Oakland, CA. Interested parties should contact me at jdgorud at yahoo dot com.

Thanks for suggesting that I should post this offer on the "Don't dump your CRT RPTV!" forum. It is obviously a very relevant topic for its subscribers.
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post #12892 of 12900 Unread Today, 02:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6volt View Post
Free at Last! Free at Last! Thank God I'm Free at Last... from my Pioneer SD-P5181.
Couple of things:

1) I will not give up so easily as 6-Volt here did! I've actually tried to get in touch with him but he hasn't logged on in 2 years. There was actually quite a bit of helpful advice from Bob troubleshooting things with him. Amazing how something from five years ago can find an audience!

2) Is eBay essentially the only good place to dig up a FBT anymore? I'm looking for the one for this Pioneer SD-P5181-K, just like 6Volt was approximately 5 years ago. I'm not sure what could be left to cause my issues. I'm gonna replace all the ceramic disc capacitors on the convergence board next, but I don't think that's the problem anyway.

Apparently either the Pioneer ATK1101 FBT or the ATK1063 FBT will work, the latter being the successor. I just can't find them period, let alone for for cheap...

Edit:

The horizontal and vertical green PIN adjustments don't seem to be working correctly. I think there's just a problem with the horizontal signal getting to the convergence amp. Of course no Radioshack within a million miles of me has anything I need, but I think I'm close to nailing this pincushion issue once and for all.

Earlier tonight I took all the PCBs off of the CRT tubes, replaced the caps, checked all the resistors, and reflowed all the solder. It made a *BIG* difference in picture quality. Didn't do a thing for the pincushion, but I'd advise anyone who has never considered it to look at their CRT PCBs...

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I've got a Hitachi 57" 57S715 that's available for free to anyone who wants to come and pick it up at my house in the Detroit Metro Area. It worked fine as of a few month ago (the last time I powered it up). It currently has most of the hardware (screws) removed from it to allow it to be taken apart (upper part removed) for transport. I have all the hardware saved and the instructions on how to take it / put it together apart sitting by the TV. Have the remote also. The glossy protective plexiglass screen has been removed for improved viewing, but I still have that and can provide it as well.

This is a 7" gun RP-CRT with a HDMI input (only 1), ATSC tuner, cable card slot, etc.

PM me if interested.
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post #12894 of 12900 Unread Today, 10:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdgorud View Post
Hello Mr. Bob,

As I told you offline, I have decided to offer my Pioneer Elite Pro-77 rear projection TV to anyone interested. I am hoping that a subscriber to this forum will acquire it and use it for years to come. It still works well and it has a classic black enamel cabinet. I have the original manuals for this TV and its remote. This unit has just been posted in the AVSForum classifieds, and is available free of charge to anyone who will pick it up at my home in Oakland, CA. Interested parties should contact me at jdgorud at yahoo dot com.

Thanks for suggesting that I should post this offer on the "Don't dump your CRT RPTV!" forum. It is obviously a very relevant topic for its subscribers.

Well guys, a PRO 77 is not HDready, but fully operational it was creme de le creme at the time, with that nice glossy piano black gold-trimmed finish that you can't find anywhere these days, at any price. It has the finest of lenticular screens, finest of lenses, finest of CRTs. It's a gem for anyone who needs a fully operational big screen for purposes other than HD movie watching, where we owners tend to want spectacular HD. This is not quite that, but for certain purposes just as good.

And for free.

This could be manning the role of the family baby sitter, it could be in a den or basement, it could even be for the big overflow room during sermons at a church, where people will be far enough away from it that whether it's HD or not really doesn't matter.

This set can be internally cleaned and thus restored to pristine crystalline brand new condition on its projection path, it can be calibrated on its grayscale and its image structure, and as I recall its sound system is pretty impressive too.

I am ready to bring this set up to its full potential once you get it, and Oakland is really not all that far away from me.

Give him a call, then give me a call.



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post #12895 of 12900 Unread Today, 10:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Green-PEAs View Post
Couple of things:

1) I will not give up so easily as 6-Volt here did! I've actually tried to get in touch with him but he hasn't logged on in 2 years. There was actually quite a bit of helpful advice from Bob troubleshooting things with him. Amazing how something from five years ago can find an audience!

2) Is eBay essentially the only good place to dig up a FBT anymore? I'm looking for the one for this Pioneer SD-P5181-K, just like 6Volt was approximately 5 years ago. I'm not sure what could be left to cause my issues. I'm gonna replace all the ceramic disc capacitors on the convergence board next, but I don't think that's the problem anyway.

Apparently either the Pioneer ATK1101 FBT or the ATK1063 FBT will work, the latter being the successor. I just can't find them period, let alone for for cheap...
Are those the only numbers you can use? Usually FBTs have big long strings of numbers, which is what should be used on an ebay search. Or search anywhere, not just ebay. Many manufacturers of such things may have them and not use ebay. At this point even knockoffs would be better than nothing, and your search may need to go offshore.

Quote:
Edit:

The horizontal and vertical green PIN adjustments don't seem to be working correctly. I think there's just a problem with the horizontal signal getting to the convergence amp. Of course no Radioshack within a million miles of me has anything I need, but I think I'm close to nailing this pincushion issue once and for all.

Earlier tonight I took all the PCBs off of the CRT tubes, replaced the caps, checked all the resistors, and reflowed all the solder. It made a *BIG* difference in picture quality. Didn't do a thing for the pincushion, but I'd advise anyone who has never considered it to look at their CRT PCBs...
What do you think is the bottom line of what helped on that CRT ECB issue? Caps being old and dried out? Weak solder joints?

I have seen the pincushion circuit be badly cold solder jointed on certain units because it runs so hot. Can't remember which brand I found that on, tho. Definitely check for cold solder joints in the pcush circuit.

That said, that advice is primarily for master pincushion. For just the green, you'll probably have to look at replacing the convergence ICs. They are multiple-channel devices and can go out on certain aspects while remaining OK on others. Same is true for the colors. I would replace the convg ICs before doing anything else on that score.


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post #12896 of 12900 Unread Today, 10:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
I've got a Hitachi 57" 57S715 that's available for free to anyone who wants to come and pick it up at my house in the Detroit Metro Area. It worked fine as of a few month ago (the last time I powered it up). It currently has most of the hardware (screws) removed from it to allow it to be taken apart (upper part removed) for transport. I have all the hardware saved and the instructions on how to take it / put it together apart sitting by the TV. Have the remote also. The glossy protective plexiglass screen has been removed for improved viewing, but I still have that and can provide it as well.

This is a 7" gun RP-CRT with a HDMI input (only 1), ATSC tuner, cable card slot, etc.

PM me if interested.
Those sets were nice! There are at least 5 threads on the AVS about Hitachi CRT RPTVs, written by owners for other Hit owners. They contain incredible information, some of which I routinely use in my calibrations of Hitachis, every time.

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post #12897 of 12900 Unread Today, 10:45 AM
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Mr. Bob,

Congrats on the epic thread.

It's been a long time since I watched a CRT RPTV and as a black level fiend myself, I understand the allure. Though for me RPTVs of all stripe were ruled out long ago because I'm very sensitive to issues like "silk screen effect" from the RPTV screens, and especially hot-spotting, shifting of image quality with viewer position etc, which no RPTV I've ever seen has conquered. (It's also why I dislike LCD, and bemoan the death of plasma). I completely understand that we all have our priorities though, and why some folks love their CRT RPTVs.

Is there anyone else out there other than you, still going around calibrating CRT displays - especially RPTVs - for consumers? I truly admire your endevours, and you are such a great resource for info on the AVSforum, and obviously to owners of CRT displays.
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post #12898 of 12900 Unread Today, 11:20 AM - Thread Starter
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I don't typically see silk screen effect on frensel/lenticular screens, tho hotspotting is there if you look for it. way out at the edges of the screen. I have seen both SSE and HS - plus the sparklies - on other projection modalities like DLP, which don't use the fresnel/lenticular motif, but the frosted screen motif instead. Frosted screens are a lot more prone to distracting side effects like this than fresnel/lenticulars.

But thanks for the support, Rich. You are always welcome here!



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My neighbors are having a yard sale today and they always get lots of folks coming by so I rolled out the Pioneer 53" set and put a sign on it to see if anyone is interested. Figured that if none of the folks coming by are they might know someone who is. But at the last sale my neighbor had they put out an analog 27" and no one was interested so it went to the recycler.

But most folks want a used panel. Thing is I've seen a lot of those at the recycle places and bet the only thing wrong is a blown $1 capacitor.
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post #12900 of 12900 Unread Today, 03:36 PM - Thread Starter
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But figuring out which one it is, is the challenge! Repairs on panels needing repair usually exceed the cost of replacing them.

If your set is perfectly operational, someone should jump on it. An old analog 27" DV is no comparison, as it won't even be HDready!

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Reply Rear Projection Units

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