Don't dump your CRT RPTV! - Page 441 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #13201 of 13278 Old 02-04-2016, 02:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Sometimes I find internal lenses be glass, like 1 of the 4 inside the lens barrel. But have never seen the lenses that are actually exposed face up being glass, only plastic. Very soft and vulnerable to scratches - or scuffs, which are thousands of tiny scratches at once.

How are you getting your signal to your set? If it's with component, how is the SAP audio getting there? It has to be encoded in whatever signal your set receives. Using your set's tuner, with channel 3 picking up your cable box's RF modulated signal or your antenna feeding your set's tuner via the coax, you would not be getting HD.

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post #13202 of 13278 Old 02-08-2016, 06:01 PM
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A little further towards perfection...

Thanks for all your help Mr. Bob, much appreciated!

So here are my final results for now with the mirror cleaned and focus re-adjusted at mid light level as per your suggestion. I did have the optics completely removed and cleaned under them the first time I went in.

After getting that done, lately my time spent on it was trying to get convergence perfect; problem is, I tried your trick of lowering the master contrast in sm and in std and comp value by half and it doesn't apply when working in convergence. If I leave service menu, the changes takes effect, then when I go back in convergence service menu and hit the yellow button, it's full tilt boogie again... Is there something I am doing wrong or that's just how it is?

I attached a picture of my convergence screenshot, now where I am stuck is at mid left side of the screen in the middle I have some green line showing but the adjusting dots are on both side of those lines which seems to far because those ones are good... so how can I go to fix that...im stuck? Anybody got this problem before? :/


On another nore, for recalibrating the energies to the gun and all that, I do have a Xrite Colormunki Display color analyser and could probably figure a way to use that? If I do grayscale with it, what would be my next and final step?
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post #13203 of 13278 Old 02-13-2016, 07:34 PM
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Well, tonight the wife and I took the plunge. After reading up on it, we attempted the deep optics clean (the remaining six surfaces) by ourselves. The good news is that the under lenses on the barrels did not need to be cleaned one iota, so we let those be. We had already done the top surface lenses with Mr. Bob on the phone so we knew how they should look, and they looked as clean as the top ones. The coolant covers, on the other hand had a light blanket of dust on them. We cleaned those out, put it back together, and then I proceeded to focus the optics via the cantilever technique. After that, I checked the electrostatic focus and got it pretty tight. And holy shi....!

Right now, we're sitting only 5.5 ft from the screen, and it's sharp as a tack! Absolutely beautiful display indeed! This is a 46-inch television and we're only sitting a hair further than 5 feet away from it. I actually have a 21.5 inch 1080p monitor that I hooked up earlier to my Blu Ray player at 1080p, and I swear that in our current seating position, the Rear Pro looks just as sharp as the LCD. Only difference is that the rear pro does have some slight loss of focus at the very edges (typical for CRT), but that's literally the ONLY thing in the LCD's favor. Everything else, the CRT destroys it.

I guess the next steps are the shimming mod, geometry redo, and convergence redo. I have already done the grayscale. Very good stuff indeed. Any bit of bleariness that was left over is now gone, and the damn television looks awesome.
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post #13204 of 13278 Old 02-15-2016, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by falconflyer04 View Post
Thanks for all your help Mr. Bob, much appreciated!

So here are my final results for now with the mirror cleaned and focus re-adjusted at mid light level as per your suggestion. I did have the optics completely removed and cleaned under them the first time I went in.

After getting that done, lately my time spent on it was trying to get convergence perfect; problem is, I tried your trick of lowering the master contrast in sm and in std and comp value by half and it doesn't apply when working in convergence. If I leave service menu, the changes takes effect, then when I go back in convergence service menu and hit the yellow button, it's full tilt boogie again... Is there something I am doing wrong or that's just how it is?

I attached a picture of my convergence screenshot, now where I am stuck is at mid left side of the screen in the middle I have some green line showing but the adjusting dots are on both side of those lines which seems to far because those ones are good... so how can I go to fix that...im stuck? Anybody got this problem before? :/


On another nore, for recalibrating the energies to the gun and all that, I do have a Xrite Colormunki Display color analyser and could probably figure a way to use that? If I do grayscale with it, what would be my next and final step?
Hitachi's have two registers in their service menus for adjusting the convergence grid's contrast and brightness (white and black level respectively). I'm wondering if your Pioneer has the same? My Hitach's convergence grid has the same problem - it's way too bright - certainly brighter than the video content I watch. And no matter what my contrast and brightness levels are set to, the service menu registers override the user settings. After lowering it in the service menu, it's been incredibly more useful.

In regards to grayscale. I have a DTP-94 that I use (before getting a rear-projector, I calibrated direct-views). I simply taped my cable to the top of the screen, and applied a few other strips of tape further back to secure it. I had my meter hanging down so that the meter is in the center and took my readings using a white window pattern. I use HCFR software to take readings at 80 IRE for the drive and 20 IRE for the cutoff.
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post #13205 of 13278 Old 02-18-2016, 08:19 PM
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Well bummer...Wife called tonight that our TV (Mitsubishi WS-65869) kept turning off immediately after she turned it on. I pulled the error code and it is flashing 22 (short protect). Looks like I have a little weekend project .
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post #13206 of 13278 Old 02-21-2016, 03:32 PM
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Well bummer...Wife called tonight that our TV (Mitsubishi WS-65869) kept turning off immediately after she turned it on. I pulled the error code and it is flashing 22 (short protect). Looks like I have a little weekend project .
It's not looking good. Convergence I/C and pico fuses replaced. Hooked everything back up and now I'm getting a blinking light. Any ideas? Looking to not dump my RPTV!

Edit: Just pulled the DM power board. I had replaced/upgraded the capacitors some time ago. Everything still looks good. Not sure where to go from here?

Edit 2: Nevermind. I think the caps are bad. They weren't bulging, but I tested them with a multimeter (not precise though) and they indicate failure. Placed an order for some Panasonic ones that should hopefully fix the issue and have better life than the previous generics I used.

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post #13207 of 13278 Old 02-24-2016, 05:23 PM
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Ordered some new Panasonic capacitors (1000uf 35V 105C). Arrived within one day from Mouser (awesome job). I also ordered a capacitor tester from Amazon (another amazing unexpected 1-day turnaround). The old capacitors tested a little low (~840 uf where they were spec'd at 1000 uf). I installed the new Panasonic capacitors (tight fit). Unfortunately, I'm still getting a continuous flashing green light.

Not sure where to go next...

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post #13208 of 13278 Old 02-25-2016, 04:25 AM
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Making progress... I removed the DM Power Supply and tested voltages. They were showing only one volt where they should be either 5 or 3.3 volts on the DM Power outputs. I noticed some "clicking" sounds coming from the board. This morning, I was going to test voltages across some of the board components. To do this, I had the board unmounted from the case. I plugged the TV in and low and behold, the light stopped flashing and the TV turned on!!!grin2

My only thought is that somehow the solder legs on some of the components are shorting out on the case. This was probably the "clicking" sound I heard. It likely manifested due to the larger caps pushing the board down further into the tray. To remedy, there are a few longer factory components that I'll grind down a bit. I'll may also try and figure out something I can put on the try to isolate it some. Another thought is to cut out the cover above the caps which would give more space and maybe a bit of added cooling to the unit.

Now I need to attack some severe bowing issues on the screen...
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post #13209 of 13278 Old 02-26-2016, 05:08 AM
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Now I need to attack some severe bowing issues on the screen...
The wife needs a TV, like now! HELP SAVE MY TV FROM THE DUMP!!!! Any ideas on the bowing (see previous post for picture) after replacing the convergence I/C? Red and Blue seem to be dead-nuts on, but the green is bowed considerably. Did I get a bad convergence chip, or is it an adjustment? Any good way to test?

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post #13210 of 13278 Old 02-26-2016, 07:44 AM
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mrstop,
I know there are 441 posts on this subject, but my question to you is what is your reason why you need to keep your RPTV? I have to admit, I still have my Sony 51 inch RPTV, but in a side by side comparison with the new Sony XBR55X800C the difference is like night and day. So, why are you holding on to the t.v. if it is giving you problems?

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post #13211 of 13278 Old 02-26-2016, 08:07 AM
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mrstop,
I know there are 441 posts on this subject, but my question to you is what is your reason why you need to keep your RPTV? I have to admit, I still have my Sony 51 inch RPTV, but in a side by side comparison with the new Sony XBR55X800C the difference is like night and day. So, why are you holding on to the t.v. if it is giving you problems?
There are multiple reasons for trying to hold onto the TV for a bit longer. First, it pains me to trash something that still has function in order to chase tech (my frugality). Second, I like a challenge to fix things (my curiosity). Third, I would like to hold out for another year or so while OLED, HDR, etc gets sorted out and moves more into the mainstream (my trepidation).

All that said, I am on the cusp of saying forget it. It is taking up too much time as I have had to go to great lengths to keep the TV running while parts and knowledge are harder and harder to come by. Also, I have had to do a lot of work to get around the lack of HDMI. I built an HTPC to get around DRM issues. Unfortunately I just learned AnyDVD was just shut down by the feds and I'm going to be out of luck in watching newer content. The TV is also dependent on my graphics card working and alternatives are no longer made.
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post #13212 of 13278 Old 02-26-2016, 08:40 AM
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I think I found the problem (or at least one of them). I re-pulled the board and since the issue seemed to mostly impacting the Green convergence, I traced the circuit with my multi-meter. I found the connection on the GV+ STK I/C pin to be loose. I de-soldered and apparently the solder pad separated from the board. Hopefully a jumper wire will fix the issue. The only perplexing thing is that Green Horizontal appears to be most impacted. I'm assuming GV = Green Vertical and that would be the vertical convergence lines.

Edit: After more thought, GV probably sets the vertical coordinates where the horizontal lines cross, rather than the shape of the line if I had to guess.

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post #13213 of 13278 Old 02-26-2016, 09:59 AM
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mrstop said:
All that said, I am on the cusp of saying forget it. It is taking up too much time as I have had to go to great lengths to keep the TV running while parts and knowledge are harder and harder to come by.

I certainly feel where you are coming from. A couple of years ago, I chose to have the Sony fixed when the picture disappeared.
It cost 500.00 to fix, but I was in love with that TV and the fact it had HDMI there was no reason to change it. I guess it took me to finally sa

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post #13214 of 13278 Old 02-26-2016, 10:22 AM
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I certainly feel where you are coming from. A couple of years ago, I chose to have the Sony fixed when the picture disappeared. It cost 500.00 to fix, but I was in love with that TV and the fact it had HDMI there was no reason to change it. I guess it took me to finally sa
If I get it working, this will probably be the last repair for the TV. The (un?)fortunate thing is that I'm fairly capable of performing the work myself. The total fix will probably be under $50 in parts (including the spare STK on hand) for both the convergence and DM board repair. Of course, my time is another story. However, I probably made $50-$100 an hour by averting a new $2-4,000 TV for at least a little longer (assuming my repair works).

P.S. I may go ahead and pickup a smallish LCD to start playing around in another room.

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post #13215 of 13278 Old 02-26-2016, 10:49 AM
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I may make one last stab at giving away my old 53" Pioneer but most likely Republic (this town's refuse company) will be picking it up with their recycle truck which has a lift and room for such an item (not to mention the pickup is free).
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post #13216 of 13278 Old 02-26-2016, 10:59 AM
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I may make one last stab at giving away my old 53" Pioneer but most likely Republic (this town's refuse company) will be picking it up with their recycle truck which has a lift and room for such an item (not to mention the pickup is free).
Before it goes to the dump, you may want to consider taking out the working parts to sell on ebay.
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post #13217 of 13278 Old 02-26-2016, 06:15 PM
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SAVED FROM THE DUMP!!!!

The loose solder pad and connection was the culprit. Soldered a jumper from the pin of the STK to the resistor and everything is in working order. Convergence was almost dead on at cold start and without adjustment! The previous STK I/C was a generic that I bought in a pinch. The new convergence IC came from electronic-repair-kits.com. It claims to be an original Sanyo and my initial impression says it probably is. Now time for a clean-up, focus and maybe a few tweaks!
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post #13218 of 13278 Old 02-27-2016, 12:17 PM
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Before it goes to the dump, you may want to consider taking out the working parts to sell on ebay.
To much work and too much work to ship. And what if no one wants the parts?
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post #13219 of 13278 Old 02-27-2016, 02:04 PM
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SAVED FROM THE DUMP!!!!

The loose solder pad and connection was the culprit. Soldered a jumper from the pin of the STK to the resistor and everything is in working order. Convergence was almost dead on at cold start and without adjustment! The previous STK I/C was a generic that I bought in a pinch. The new convergence IC came from electronic-repair-kits.com. It claims to be an original Sanyo and my initial impression says it probably is. Now time for a clean-up, focus and maybe a few tweaks!
You saved yourself quite a few $$$ by fixing it. About 2 years ago my Magnavox stopped working. It was an opto-coupler that needed to be replaced. I believe I ordered it from the same place you ordered from.

I had never attempted replacing anything like this before but I got the job done. I powered it up and it worked and has ever since. I also disassembled the CRT's and replaced the coupling fluid which had yellowed. I cleaned the inside up and put black cloth around the inside edges to reduce any reflection. Wow such a difference that made.

I rarely watch mine and when I do it is for the Olympic's or something like the Academy Awards.

The newer TV technology is good but I just can't get over how much I like my CRT picture better. I still run a Sony CRT projector in my home theater. In fact I have 2 extra CRT projectors. When I die I will part with them.
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post #13220 of 13278 Old 02-27-2016, 02:10 PM
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I wish I could find replacement CRT's for my Magnavox. I've searched everywhere and I keep coming up with nothing. I'm not even sure who the manufacturer was. I sort of want to say Sanyo but I don't really know. I don't recall seeing any manufacturers name on the CRT's.

My idle Sony CRT projector I have replaced all 3 CRT's in it. The other idle NEC projector has new CRT's too.
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post #13221 of 13278 Old 02-28-2016, 02:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Video Display Corp. is where all the outdated but still brand new CRTs go when it's time for the manufacturer to get rid of them and move on. They take in thousands at a time from the maufacturers. Then they resell them to whoever needs them.

I can't believe you would not find them there.

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post #13222 of 13278 Old 02-28-2016, 02:48 PM - Thread Starter
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To much work and too much work to ship. And what if no one wants the parts?
I understand, but I still feel these sets are in demand by the right people. In my living room right now is sitting 2 big boxes full of the parts from a disassembled Pioneer Elite HD PRO CRT, just in case I need them. The owner was willing to disassemble the fully operational unit to get these parts to me, he didn't even want compensation. I gave him some anyway and paid for the shipping as well, from Prescott AZ to here in CA.

I don't know if I'll ever use them or sell them and currently they are making a rather large footprint on my living room floor. But I believe in this modality and am willing to throw a few hundred in its direction just to keep it as much alive as I possibly can.

A fully operational set should be worth the pickup from somebody. Seriously, you've tried local churches which might need a big TV for their overflow room, you've put ads up on Craig's list and listed it on ebay, you've listed it in the Classifieds, here on the AVS? As a fully operational big screen? A giveaway and still nobody wants it? That really has not been my experience of this modality.


The new owner of the Panasonic 65" CRT RPTV I bought in year 2000 and finally let go of a couple years ago lives in Everett WA and we have a plane flight already set up for March 26 to fly me up and give it an entire triple scanrate calibration, since his setup got hosed by - we know now, we didn't then - one of his ICs going out. On a mysterious set of symptoms he flew me up a few weeks ago to try to get that taken care of on the old ICs, and it just didn't look like ICs would be the problem, so I tried to work around it. No go, so I had him send down the conv bd and replaced his old ICs JIC, and bingo! That did it, we now had the full width back that had gone bye-bye before. After the 100 hour burn-in, it is now ready for the full tilt boogie.


Did I say that some people love this genre? My set is from the year following the year they stopped making CRTs (was a closeout) and I won't part with it. It just keeps delivering.

The fact that these sets are lasting literally forever doesn't hurt either.

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post #13223 of 13278 Old 03-01-2016, 02:29 PM
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I just wanted to thank Mr. Bob and the folks in this thread for the inspiration.
I have owned my Toshiba 65HDX82 1080i RPTV since the fall of 2002. This was Toshiba's top of line Cinema Series in 2002.
The 65" beast has been the centerpiece of my home theater all these years, but has been looking rather dull and blurry lately.
I thought of replacing her but I haven't found anything else in this size range that has has impressed me or my wallet.
Although I have tinkered with it and done some amateur calibration over the years, it has never been professionally calibrated.
I always wanted to have it worked on but life gets in the way as you know.
Lately, I had been visiting the forums again and I came across this thread.
I couldn't believe it! I wasn't alone!
There are still some enthusiast out there who value their RPTV as much as I do!
So I decided to have a professional do a tune up on my set.
Chad B from Ohio came to my house this past weekend and did a full cleaning and calibration.
The outcome is truly impressive! It's like night and day.
He cleaned the film and dust off the optics, the mirror and the screen (which was a big part of the issues).
Then he did focus, geometry, convergence, color accuracy, grey scale, etc.
In the end, the picture is truly amazing; crisp, clear, and accurate.
I never knew it could look this good, I should have done it years ago!
My wife says it's like getting a new TV.
Anyway, I highly recommend Chad B, he really knows his stuff.
And my hats off to Mr. Bob and this thread.
Thanks for the vote of confidence in RPTVs.

~ John
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post #13224 of 13278 Old 03-01-2016, 06:22 PM
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I understand, but I still feel these sets are in demand by the right people. In my living room right now is sitting 2 big boxes full of the parts from a disassembled Pioneer Elite HD PRO CRT, just in case I need them. The owner was willing to disassemble the fully operational unit to get these parts to me, he didn't even want compensation. I gave him some anyway and paid for the shipping as well, from Prescott AZ to here in CA.

I don't know if I'll ever use them or sell them and currently they are making a rather large footprint on my living room floor. But I believe in this modality and am willing to throw a few hundred in its direction just to keep it as much alive as I possibly can.

A fully operational set should be worth the pickup from somebody. Seriously, you've tried local churches which might need a big TV for their overflow room, you've put ads up on Craig's list and listed it on ebay, you've listed it in the Classifieds, here on the AVS? As a fully operational big screen? A giveaway and still nobody wants it? That really has not been my experience of this modality.


The new owner of the Panasonic 65" CRT RPTV I bought in year 2000 and finally let go of a couple years ago lives in Everett WA and we have a plane flight already set up for March 26 to fly me up and give it an entire triple scanrate calibration, since his setup got hosed by - we know now, we didn't then - one of his ICs going out. On a mysterious set of symptoms he flew me up a few weeks ago to try to get that taken care of on the old ICs, and it just didn't look like ICs would be the problem, so I tried to work around it. No go, so I had him send down the conv bd and replaced his old ICs JIC, and bingo! That did it, we now had the full width back that had gone bye-bye before. After the 100 hour burn-in, it is now ready for the full tilt boogie.


Did I say that some people love this genre? My set is from the year following the year they stopped making CRTs (was a closeout) and I won't part with it. It just keeps delivering.

The fact that these sets are lasting literally forever doesn't hurt either.
Glad to see you back! That Panasonic was one of the few CRT RPTV's that could do multi-scan, wasn't it? Native 720p? I'll bet it looks amazing.

So I used your tricks you taught me over our phone consult and did a deep-optics clean by myself. The under-optics were spotless but the CRT coolant covers were dusty. Anyways, after focusing everything, I must say the picture looks pretty frickin sweet:




I have actually been playing around with my pattern generator and honing in the cantilever technique. Currently, the technique dictates that we set a circle hatch pattern at 480i/p so that we can see the scanlines and focus on them. However, I wanted to make it a little better, and I believe that I may have figured something out. Since we don't have multiscan displays, the best mode to focus the optics is its native mode - 1080i. However, since 1080i renders the scanlines too small, I created a mode in my pattern generator that is 540p.

It functions very similarly to how old-school game consoles do 240p on regular 480i sets. The television displays a true 540p signal (you can literally see that there is no interlacing on the set), and the scanlines are completely visible and don't have that up-scaled, interpolated look. We're running at native mode, baby! The scanlines are finer, but still visible. I'll be tweaking my porch settings because the picture is shifted a little to the right (I think that if I look at the default 1080i mode on the generator, take its numbers, and do some math, I should have the correct numbers for a good 540p).

I'm pretty excited to see how well this works. I can already tell that the images in 540p are much more crisp than 480p, since there is literally no upscaling involved. Soon I would also like to attempt the shimming mod and get my overscan down.

EDIT: Buddy of mine is offering a Mistubishi WS-73411 for a good "deal" he says (would also throw in an older Pioneer 480i set for free). Is it a good set, assuming he maintained it well? What resolution do those 9-inch tubes have?

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post #13225 of 13278 Old 03-02-2016, 08:54 AM - Thread Starter
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On checking the under barrel lenses, did you shine your strong flashlight across it at a steep angle, side to side, in a darkened environment? Did you touch the lens just a little bit with the back of a finger knuckle to see if any smokiness got disturbed?

You put a lot of work into getting 540 to your screen. Isn't it a lot simpler to simply buy the 480i AVIA Guide to Home Theater DVD and use it in 480i/p, where the scanlines show themselves clearly? That's the best way to see between the scanlines. Using 540 for focusing is not going to get it any better than 480. There's going to be a sweet spot where pushing in on the viewscreen exactly the same distance as pulling the screen out, makes it go out of focus in the center of the screen exactly as much in one direction as the other, pushing in at the center 3/4" vs. pulling it out at the top 1.5", making center go in and out 3/4" each from center. Once you can see the scanlines clearly and you've nailed and equally balanced that, using a higher scanrate won't get it any better.

The WS 73411 is just as fantastic as the other 73" Mit sets, they all use the 9" guns. I could supertweak that baby to where it would be unrecognizable vs. new out of box condition, which would take a far distant second to my calibrated version. It would literally look mulchy by comparison.


Your set looks fantastic! We can really see that the optics are now super clean, there's no "glow" around bright objects against a dark background, like the band in the guy's hat, which would be milky and "filled in" if the optics were dirty. There would also be no detail in the other guy's hair, detail in that kind of image disappears when the optics are dirty.

Yes, that Panny did all 3 scanrates native, had a separate geometry/convergence memory bank for each one and separate grayscale/color memory bank for 480i/p vs. 720/1080's shared one.

I'll try to get some screenshots of it while in Everett once I have completed the triple-scanrate cal up there, beginning on Saturday the 26th of March. It has the finest CRT RPTV 7" gun 65" screen HD pic I have experienced in all my calibration years of doing this, among all the brands I have worked on. And I have been doing this since long before HD hit our country.

Nobody does HD like Panasonic.


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post #13226 of 13278 Old 03-02-2016, 09:10 AM - Thread Starter
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I just wanted to thank Mr. Bob and the folks in this thread for the inspiration.
I have owned my Toshiba 65HDX82 1080i RPTV since the fall of 2002. This was Toshiba's top of line Cinema Series in 2002.
The 65" beast has been the centerpiece of my home theater all these years, but has been looking rather dull and blurry lately.
I thought of replacing her but I haven't found anything else in this size range that has has impressed me or my wallet.
Although I have tinkered with it and done some amateur calibration over the years, it has never been professionally calibrated.
I always wanted to have it worked on but life gets in the way as you know.
Lately, I had been visiting the forums again and I came across this thread.
I couldn't believe it! I wasn't alone!
There are still some enthusiast out there who value their RPTV as much as I do!
So I decided to have a professional do a tune up on my set.
Chad B from Ohio came to my house this past weekend and did a full cleaning and calibration.
The outcome is truly impressive! It's like night and day.
He cleaned the film and dust off the optics, the mirror and the screen (which was a big part of the issues).
Then he did focus, geometry, convergence, color accuracy, grey scale, etc.
In the end, the picture is truly amazing; crisp, clear, and accurate.
I never knew it could look this good, I should have done it years ago!
My wife says it's like getting a new TV.
Anyway, I highly recommend Chad B, he really knows his stuff.
And my hats off to Mr. Bob and this thread.
Thanks for the vote of confidence in RPTVs.

~ John
Chad is a great guy and is very very good. I am glad you had someone of his calibre on the case. I hope he did the optics cleaning under the lens barrels, tho, Toshibas have an air gap like all the others (except Mit), and dust crawls in there because of the HV's ionization process. 10 surfaces in there get grossly filthy because of that, and 6 of those 10 are under the lens barrels. I call it the "deeper optics" cleaning. If the deeper optics cleaning doesn't get done on a TV of that age, much bleariness still remains. Hopefully Chad tuned in on that a long time ago from all the times I have written about it, and it's now a staple in his arsenal. Say Hi from me if you talk with him again.

Runco used that model of Tosh to revamp the circuitry on and sell for way over what was normally charged, it was their flagship CRT RPTV of that time, where the general mainstream did not included flat panels at all. They put a marvelous new front on it, and all that shows how much one of the most expensive home theater brands thought of its inherent capacity.

Enjoy! These sets are lasting way longer than anyone expected, even me!


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post #13227 of 13278 Old 03-02-2016, 10:36 AM
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Video Display Corp. is where all the outdated but still brand new CRTs go when it's time for the manufacturer to get rid of them and move on. They take in thousands at a time from the maufacturers. Then they resell them to whoever needs them.

I can't believe you would not find them there.
Thanks I have their website bookmarked but I wasn't sure if they were still even in business. I'll have to contact them and see what they have.

On your reply about parting out a RPTV I would have to agree. I'd like to find replacement boards for mine. Most people by now have dumped them in the trash. Such a shame.
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post #13228 of 13278 Old 03-02-2016, 11:06 AM
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Thanks I have their website bookmarked but I wasn't sure if they were still even in business. I'll have to contact them and see what they have.

On your reply about parting out a RPTV I would have to agree. I'd like to find replacement boards for mine. Most people by now have dumped them in the trash. Such a shame.
That's why I recommended to part out. As a backup, I was searching for parts for my TV if I couldn't figure out the repair. It's probably a bit of a hassle to remove the boards, hang on to them and ship them. That said, it seems that most working boards are going for $30-$50 or more a piece so there is some financial incentive. Your also helping to save another TV from the dump!
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post #13229 of 13278 Old 03-02-2016, 02:27 PM
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You put a lot of work into getting 540 to your screen. Isn't it a lot simpler to simply buy the 480i AVIA Guide to Home Theater DVD and use it in 480i/p, where the scanlines show themselves clearly? That's the best way to see between the scanlines. Using 540 for focusing is not going to get it any better than 480. There's going to be a sweet spot where pushing in on the viewscreen exactly the same distance as pulling the screen out, makes it go out of focus in the center of the screen exactly as much in one direction as the other, pushing in at the center 3/4" vs. pulling it out at the top 1.5", making center go in and out 3/4" each from center. Once you can see the scanlines clearly and you've nailed and equally balanced that, using a higher scanrate won't get it any better.
I have to admit I'm a little confused. Whenever I focus CRT monitors, I have always been instructed to focus the monitor at its recommended mode. So, for example, a 21-inch CRT monitor would typically be focused at 1600x1200, 85hz. It wouldn't be focused at a lower resolution, like 1024x768. Is this related to the difference between optics focusing and electrostatic focusing? On another note, what resolution do you do your electrostatic focusing at? I would assume that focusing the electrostatic focus at 540p would yield better results than doing 480.


Quote:
The WS 73411 is just as fantastic as the other 73" Mit sets, they all use the 9" guns. I could supertweak that baby to where it would be unrecognizable vs. new out of box condition, which would take a far distant second to my calibrated version. It would literally look mulchy by comparison.
So if it was at a good price, you'd say go for it? I also notice that despite its lack of a digital input, it does do full-on analog RGB. With sync on green.

Quote:
Your set looks fantastic! We can really see that the optics are now super clean, there's no "glow" around bright objects against a dark background, like the band in the guy's hat, which would be milky and "filled in" if the optics were dirty. There would also be no detail in the other guy's hair, detail in that kind of image disappears when the optics are dirty.
Thank you! To answer your first question, regarding the flashlight, the knuckle, etc. Yes - we definitely did that. The dirty part was the CRT coolant covers. Though they weren't that dirty (further evidence that the TV saw hardly any use). The only nit-picks I have of the television now is that the focus on the corners isn't that great, and that the overscan is a bit much. I would like to shim this baby eventually, but I have a feeling that while it would reduce overrscan, it probably won't help the corners all that much. It's a smaller set with smaller tubes, and the lenses probably aren't as tweakable as the bigger ones. Does the 73-inch Mitsu suffer from this too?

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post #13230 of 13278 Old 03-02-2016, 03:20 PM - Thread Starter
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I have to admit I'm a little confused. Whenever I focus CRT monitors, I have always been instructed to focus the monitor at its recommended mode. So, for example, a 21-inch CRT monitor would typically be focused at 1600x1200, 85hz. It wouldn't be focused at a lower resolution, like 1024x768. Is this related to the difference between optics focusing and electrostatic focusing?
CRT monitors are direct views and as such the electrostatic focusing is all that can be tweaked. And I agree with you that it should be done on the scanrate/resolution used most.

The Cantilever technique, OTOH, is a very mechanical op and is strictly for the optical focusing.

Both types of focusing are critical to a sizzling picture, neither can be left out of the equation in a projection system like a CRT RPTV.


Quote:
On another note, what resolution do you do your electrostatic focusing at? I would assume that focusing the electrostatic focus at 540p would yield better results than doing 480.
Again I would do it on the scanrate/resolution used most.

I have never seen any differences between scanrates on big screen in that regard, but differing light levels will affect the electrostatic focusing. That's why I don't use the internal grids of user or service menus, because on most brands they are garish and full tilt boogie in terms of light level, rather than mid light level, like our content is.

Light levels that differ between the internal grids vs. the content also affect convergence. Convergence should always be done at the same light levels as the content. This makes using the internal menu grids of many brands of very limited value. Panasonic is the exception - its internal grids are just where they should be - thin and at mid light level.


[quote] So if it was at a good price, you'd say go for it?

Uh, let me think about that. Yup.


Quote:
I also notice that despite its lack of a digital input, it does do full-on analog RGB. With sync on green.
More sauce for the goose, Mr. Savik (Spock's words, not mine...)

Quote:
Thank you! To answer your first question, regarding the flashlight, the knuckle, etc. Yes - we definitely did that. The dirty part was the CRT coolant covers. Though they weren't that dirty (further evidence that the TV saw hardly any use).

The only test I have found really works is a special one that involves cleaning a thumbprint size part of it in a darkened room, then allowing that spot to be backlit by strong light level content from the CRTs. Otherwise how dirty it is is really hard to see.

Quote:
The only nit-picks I have of the television now is that the focus on the corners isn't that great, and that the overscan is a bit much. I would like to shim this baby eventually, but I have a feeling that while it would reduce overrscan, it probably won't help the corners all that much. It's a smaller set with smaller tubes, and the lenses probably aren't as tweakable as the bigger ones. Does the 73-inch Mitsu suffer from this too?
Depends on whether you mean focus or convergence.

Special lenses have to be used to keep everything focused out to the edges and corners. I once saw a difference between the model grades of the same model year Mit's in a store. It was quite evident when you put up the all green menu. The higher grade Mit was focused out to the edges and corners, the lower one was not. The big ceiling projectors are designed to where you can make sure the edges and corners have the same crispness, they use that to optimize for flat screens vs. curved screens.

The 73" Mits use highly resolved, well designed lenses that keep everything just the way it should be all the way out to the edges. There is no lesser grade than that for the 73's.

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