Don't dump your CRT RPTV! - Page 444 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #13291 of 13310 Old 06-10-2016, 06:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teleskier View Post
I believe the time has come for me to part with my 64" Pioneer Elite Pro 710-HD RPTV.

It's been a great 15 year run. I resoldered the power supply boards 10 years ago and have been fine since.

Last night it displayed the same symptoms as before once it got warm after two or three hours. It probably just needs another resoldering, but I'm in the middle of remodeling construction and don't have the time, and frankly need the floor space as I'm doing all the floors.

It still has a really great picture.

Does anyone in the Boston area want to give it a new home?
No takers, sigh, which probably says something that the new tech has finally surpassed it.

Actually it's been 16 years since I paid nearly $12K for the set back before there was any HD programming, where OTA had the best and first HD for free.

So much has changed in Home Theater since component HT days that it is hard to catch up overnight... so many questions....

  • I am blown away by the new OLED sets which is why I'm jumping, but the burn in I saw at a non-magnolia Best Buy last night was troubling, even if it was only Image Retention, it bothered me.
  • I am still OTA... will 4K come to OTA? ... if I am stuck on a OTA Series3 Tivo watching OTA, is a 2016 4K OLED an early-adopter penalty overkill & not worth it
  • When we switched the OLED to broadcast TV, a vintage TV Dick Cavett show was on, it showed so much big-blocks pixelation that it was unwatchable. Is that poor upscaling? If I watch lots of vintage shows on OTA channels, would I be better off with a lesser/smaller set for better upscaling? (Less work for processor to do)
  • Sound bars seem big. Does one even need a AVR receiver anymore if the TV does the HMDI switching and AVR just does HDMI pass-through w/o upscaling? What would the $1K Denon AVR I was eyeing even do then - just handle the audio? Can I keep my optical/component older AVR then, or do I need to upgrade to HDMI 2.x AVR and why?
  • My town is rural and the best internet I have is 0.7Mbps DSL. Thus I use my cell phone tether for data since it is faster. No FIOS in town - probably never at this rate. Do I even bother with 4K TV until we get fatter data pipes in town since only 4K UHD will be streaming and/or limited DVDs? (I refuse to re-buy it all, all over again, would want to rely on upscaling).
  • I had decided before the BB visit on the 2016 B6 OLED since I don't care about 3D... but now I feel I went from best-in-class in 2000 to now questioning if being cutting edge is worth it, if OTA will no longer be on par with the better resolutions and the world will go streaming only, and my town doesn't have the data pipes to justify 4K UHD OLED
  • As my other half commented, it's equivalent to buying the highest end audiophile system... to listen to a hissing cassette tape. My world is crashing

These are all newbie questions, I need to do my homework. Can anyone point me to a good place to answer these 101 for 2016 questions? I'm really missing Tweeter stores with good A/B/C comparison and advice right about now...

If watching vintage TV shows looks that bad on the best sets of today, perhaps I should just re-solder the power supply board again and keep my current set. The vintage ME-TV show last night looked unwatchable on OLED last night.
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post #13292 of 13310 Old 06-11-2016, 01:35 PM
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OLED has the best picture, but burn in is a possibility.

What will equal OLED, without the disadvantage of burn in, is Emissive Quantum Dot technology. Right now quantum dots are used as part of LCD backlighting, where they can confer some real benefits. But eventually Quantum Dots will be used as emissive elements in themselves, just like organic light emitting diodes, but with much greater stability and longevity. Both LEDs and Quantum Dots do not present the same problem with burn in.

If I wanted a larger set than my 65 inch right now, I would probably buy one of the 4K HDR Sony Quantum Dot backlit sets. They're much less expensive than OLED, and in a year or two you should see some Quantum Dot emissive TVs on the market.

If you want to run newer peripherals from an AVR, then you will need a newer receiver with newer HDMI specs... unless you use HD Fury. There are only a few soundbars that approach the sound you would get from separate speakers running from an AVR.

Last edited by taichi4; 06-11-2016 at 01:55 PM.
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post #13293 of 13310 Old 06-21-2016, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbahr View Post
Hey gang,

My Pro-510HD is going to the curb. It needs the power supply resoldering, but is otherwise in good shape.

If anyone wants it let me know.

And, no, this is not an invitation to Dr. Bob to try to convince me to fix it. Sorry - need to move on.

-Mike
I would be interested in knowing if someone picks it up or if it goes to recycling. There was a time folks would snap these up but that time has way passed especially with the prices of 4K panels these days.
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post #13294 of 13310 Old 06-22-2016, 11:42 AM - Thread Starter
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I have been given the chance to get a first gen - lots better than the second gen - LG 50" OLED for $1000, fully calibrated (by me of course...). Original price on this puppy was $15,000 before calibration.

Obviously this is a chance I won't pass up.

As such I now have to give serious thought as to what to do with my 73" Mit, fully calibrated, color decoder corrected, shimmed for overscan reduction, and cosmetically flawless. It has very little wear on the guns as I usually keep the contrast down at 21 out of the possible 63, it has no screenburn whatsoever, I still watch it every day and it occasionally hosts over a dozen people in this living room, enjoying it and being spirited away by its immersiveness. This is the one several people have called my "own private IMAX", as I view it from 9' away at all times, very comfortably. The immersion factor is absolutely stellar.

Any ideas? I would like someone to have it who respects the CRT medium the way we here do, and knows its true value to the viewer. All along I have said that the only format better than CRT for the blacks has been OLED, and that's still true. And still very expensive for the average viewer. I just got incredibly lucky on this OLED falling into my lap.

Let me know who wants it, we'll work out the particulars -

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post #13295 of 13310 Old 06-22-2016, 05:48 PM
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Help Mr Bob

I need some help Mr Bob.

I recently upgraded my Mitsubishi 82838 DLP to a 92" 92A12 DLP. I bought it sight unseen and it arrived absolutely filthy. The previous owner smoke heavily and there was a thick coating of nicotine smelling dust completely covering the TV. I cannot describe how poor the condition of the set was.

Fast forward. After 5 hours of careful and painstaking cleaning the entire outside of the set including front screen was finally clean. Bad part. Picture was horrible, colors washed out and very dim. This was with a brand new OEM MITS lamp put in. Figuring that that smoke infested house would have infiltrated the light engine and adhered to the color wheel etc, I ordered a new light engine and just had it installed. IMMEDIATE change and the picture is pretty much restored with 1 exception.

I took portlets off the TV so peer inside. The back mirror has finger prints showing up with a strong flashlight pointed at surface on both sides. Apparently someone in the house took those off as some point and put their fingers right on the mirror!

So the repair shop that replaced the light engine pointed out the fingerprints that are showing up on the screen when a bright white background is present. He advised to use a soft microfiber to wipe off the mirror and possible a bit of water on microfiber if that didn't work. Well I tried both. First the dry (high quality) microfiber. The fingerprints didn't budge. Next I finely misted distilled water on the microfiber and then tried again. This time it smudged the mirror and the fingerprints can still be seen. This was on the right side of the mirror and I stopped at that point because I don't want to do any further possible damage.

And advice how to proceed and what products to use to get the smudges/fingerprints off safely?

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post #13296 of 13310 Old 06-23-2016, 01:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Same way as with CRT: Sprayway or Glass Plus and paper towels. Fingerprints will not go away with just water, there is a certain grease content in fingerprints and handprints that is not water soluble. And microfibre cloths are worthless if you want to clean optics the way I do. Microfibre has no absorbency whatsoever, so it just swishes the smudginess around and leaves it there as dried residue.

DLPs use front surface mirrors just like CRT did, and that's my regimen for cleaning them - OK to treat the mirror like glass even tho it is not. Hit it several times if necessary. The method is different for the lenses, but since you have a new lens on your new light engine, that should be fine now.

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Last edited by Mr Bob; 06-23-2016 at 01:57 AM.
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post #13297 of 13310 Old 06-23-2016, 03:02 PM
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FYI - None of the local charities seem to take TVs larger than 27" any more.

So in wondering how to get rid of mine, and whether it's time for a hack-saw and to sadly burn the beautiful but bulky wood cabinet in the woodstove next winter, I found this post that claims there is $200 of gold and copper in the old RPTV sets:

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post #13298 of 13310 Old 06-24-2016, 08:48 AM
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Same way as with CRT: Sprayway or Glass Plus and paper towels. Fingerprints will not go away with just water, there is a certain grease content in fingerprints and handprints that is not water soluble. And microfibre cloths are worthless if you want to clean optics the way I do. Microfibre has no absorbency whatsoever, so it just swishes the smudginess around and leaves it there as dried residue.

DLPs use front surface mirrors just like CRT did, and that's my regimen for cleaning them - OK to treat the mirror like glass even tho it is not. Hit it several times if necessary. The method is different for the lenses, but since you have a new lens on your new light engine, that should be fine now.
Hi Mr. Bob, could you help me identifying this problem so I can continue keeping my rear projection TV alive. I have this issue with some color streaks in the picture. Have you ever seen this type of problem before and do you have a fix? Thanks!
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post #13299 of 13310 Old 06-24-2016, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teleskier View Post
FYI - None of the local charities seem to take TVs larger than 27" any more.

So in wondering how to get rid of mine, and whether it's time for a hack-saw and to sadly burn the beautiful but bulky wood cabinet in the woodstove next winter, I found this post that claims there is $200 of gold and copper in the old RPTV sets:

Scrapping a Projection TV for copper and GOLD!
Check with your refuse company. They may pick up RPTVs. Mine has a truck that will pickup on appointment. I've seen it and it has a lift plus he had a refer and and some washers and dryers onboard. If not then try some of your local e-waste companies that might do pickups too.

The charity pickups have completely disappeared in my area. One even had a lift and could have taken my set. The problem in California is that some of the state subsidies for this have disappeared. And folks wonder why people dump stuff in vacant lots.
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post #13300 of 13310 Old 07-06-2016, 12:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi Mr. Bob, could you help me identifying this problem so I can continue keeping my rear projection TV alive. I have this issue with some color streaks in the picture. Have you ever seen this type of problem before and do you have a fix? Thanks!
I always hate to deliver news like this, but no, there is no fix. Your set's blanking system failed and it scarred your guns on turn off. Your red got scarred worst, leaving the turquoise horizontal streak.

Your set still works properly and with the blanking system corrected it could live on to eternity, if what I have been seeing with these sets stays going. Unfortunately your guns need to be replaced.

If you do want to replace them, I am available for that plus full workup after that - totally scratch calibration resulting in a stealth grade picture.

That was a very nice set, sorry to learn of this. You can keep using your set, but this kind of thing doesn't cure itself, and further similar damage may occur in the future. But if you can live with what you're seeing, you can keep on using your set.

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post #13301 of 13310 Old 07-07-2016, 02:17 PM
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I always hate to deliver news like this, but no, there is no fix. Your set's blanking system failed and it scarred your guns on turn off. Your red got scarred worst, leaving the turquoise horizontal streak.

Your set still works properly and with the blanking system corrected it could live on to eternity, if what I have been seeing with these sets stays going. Unfortunately your guns need to be replaced.

If you do want to replace them, I am available for that plus full workup after that - totally scratch calibration resulting in a stealth grade picture.

That was a very nice set, sorry to learn of this. You can keep using your set, but this kind of thing doesn't cure itself, and further similar damage may occur in the future. But if you can live with what you're seeing, you can keep on using your set.
Thanks for your expertise Mr. Bob. If you were in Texas, I'd let you do the job. Do you know how much the guns costs and where they could be purchased? I really do like this set as my bedroom TV.... Thanks again!
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post #13302 of 13310 Old 07-15-2016, 08:24 PM
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Post CRT Rear projection scores abound! (pictures & video to come)

It turns out that the time to get into something is when everybody else is getting out of it. Our family just scored a 65" Mitsubishi WS-A65 (the watered-down BestBuy version of the 65311) yesterday for free, and the only things wrong with it were some intermittent convergence issues and that it was missing the speaker grill. We've never owned a 65" flatscreen before, just a WS-48311 (since that was the largest thing that would fit in our van in one piece). The 48"er is pretty good, but had some serious gouges in the screen caused by negligence of the previous owners and their insistence on not using the "DiamondShield". It is also kind of small for how far the seating is from the corner.

Anyway, I got the A65 cleaned out and put back together (there was a small amount of particle-board breakage during the re-assembly of the upper cabinet, but not too bad) and touched up all the solder joints on the convergence ICs as well (this appears to have been a success because there have been no convergence issues since). In fact, after warming it up and adjusting the convergence in the user menu, it was starting to look a lot better, but when I pressed the Guide button on the Xbox 360 controller, it became immediately apparent that something wasn't right. I leafed through the video settings again to make sure that the sharpness wasn't jacked up (it wasn't), but it still felt like something was missing. Then I remembered - there was no option for "VSM sharpness" in the video settings. Sure enough, some online research (actually a search of this thread; posts 7451 & 7457 for those of you following along at home) revealed that those jackasses at "Best" Buy managed to bribe Mitsubishi into gimping these things so that there's no way to disable it in the user settings! I can understand if it was an advanced setting, but "VSM sharpness" makes the picture look like complete and utter garbage, especially when there's text on the screen.

Thankfully, this thread saved my bacon by pointing out that it can be disabled in the service menu. It's adjusted on a scale of 3 to 0. First, I turned it down to 2; still nasty. Then, I put it down to 1; a bit better, but still quite terrible. Finally, I clicked it down to zero, and it was like a brand new television! Text was clear and the image quality was as beautiful as it can be without proper calibration. Shame on BestBuy for making that the unchangeable default - and further shame for charging $2000+ for it to some ignorant customer nearly a decade-and-a-half ago. At least now it's looking pretty good, and the Xbox 360 goes perfectly with it. Not just because they're both at rock-bottom prices right now, but because the Xbox 360 fully supports scaling of all content to 1080i, so 720p-only stuff is a non-issue. Plus, if you get a used one, they come with a fairly lengthy component cable that affords more than enough slack to put the console on top of the set without running out of cable reaching down to the Mitsubishi's inputs. Going back to the TV, I don't know how many hours are on it since Mitsubishis don't have a life counter, but my guess is that the cold solder joints started giving it convergence problems early on (between 8000 and 12000 hours perhaps; your guess is probably as good as, if not better than, mine) and led to the set being replaced and left to sit for a long time (thankfully in a dry warehouse instead of outside or around pets) before I picked it up.

That leads me to my question: Does anyone know where to get the front speaker grill for one of these? The service guide gives part number 761A171040, but of course hardly anybody has it cataloged, let alone in stock. Are there any alternatives? Do the fancier grilles from the nicer/newer (or even older) 65" models work with the A65? Am I doomed to trolling Craiglist and hoping one will pop up on a dead Mitsubishi somewhere? How about mounting tacky automotive speaker covers over the speakers, sticking carbon-fiber tape over the wiring to the front panel, sticking a Mitsubishi hood ornament in the center, and calling it good?

Update (7/17)
As promised, I've got the pictures attached to this thread . Unfortunately, our not-so-trusty Xenon Xbox 360 was feeling a bit camera-shy and refused to operate for long enough to get a good sample picture (this thing is on its third or fourth reflow, so it is probably going to be one of those systems that just doesn't stay fixed). In the second picture, you can see a rare glimpse of what it looks like when the 360 locks up while playing the boot animation, but you can still see the crispness and definition - all perfectly paused. Not sure why the other picture is being flipped upside down by AVSForum.

I've got a V-Log documenting the transportation and repair on this that'll go up on YouTube as well in the coming weeks, but for now, I have just one more question. Does the EEPROM reprogramming trick with the I2C work on these V20 chassi models as well? I read a PDF guide about it somewhere and it seems fairly do-able as long as I can get the parts and set up a computer with a parallel port, but I also read that the procedure may differ by model year. Does anyone know if this is so? If it is, what are the values that need to be changed to eliminate it on these models? Or is that information lost in the proverbial Internet-couch-cushion-crack of time?
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post #13303 of 13310 Old 07-18-2016, 07:39 PM
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Question Only lasted two days... any ideas?

Well, I may have spoke too soon about the Mitsubishi. In an interesting turn of events, I had just located another Xbox 360 to get set up for demo-ing this thing and was just about to get the show on the road, but disaster struck once again: I pressed the button to turn on the Mit, at which point it clicked on, but then promptly clicked back off, giving me nothing but a flashing green light (not to be confused with the infamous "blinking green light of death") briefly flashing at a rate of about 1.25 blinks per second (maybe a little bit less) indefinitely. I've tried disconnecting the power for varying lengths of time, but it always comes back with this now the moment that it is plugged back in. Holding "input" and "menu" to check for error codes does not yield a change.

I pulled the front panel off to see if there were any visually obvious problems anywhere and didn't see any. This is a really weird problem, and it doesn't help that it is very similar to another issue. Any ideas as to why I'd be seeing a blinking green light on an analog Mit? Could this be a CRT coolant leak that I've heard so much about (we did just transport the set a few days ago)? Aren't Mits supposed to have something in place to catch coolant leaks? If so, at what point did they start being installed?

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post #13304 of 13310 Old 07-19-2016, 12:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for your expertise Mr. Bob. If you were in Texas, I'd let you do the job. Do you know how much the guns costs and where they could be purchased? I really do like this set as my bedroom TV.... Thanks again!
Video Display Corp.

But remember, you gotta fix that blanking problem or this will repeat and ruin your new tubes too.

Mit had a kit they called the CM Kit back in the day, it would cure that blanking problem. I have seen horrendous scarring of the picture tubes, some much worse than yours.

As the beam slows down, it starts to gouge the phosphors, being much more powerful than it should be because it's going so much slower. In practice when things are working properly the beam just whizzes around there, never staying in one place longer than what would probably be hundredths of milliseconds. The blanking kit blanked the beam during turn off and slow down, keeping it away from that delicate film of phosphors that produces your picture.

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post #13305 of 13310 Old 07-19-2016, 07:19 AM
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Exclamation Coolant leak!

Just to follow up on my Mitsubishi (WS-A65 aka WS-65311) sudden flickering-light-and-not-powering-up issue, I got the back cover off and discovered that there does indeed appear to be treachery going on inside of this thing. Looking at the second white connector from the back (highlighted; the one that connects the mainboard to the power supply), there was some wet green stuff visible on the mainboard side of the connector. Additionally, one of the metal prongs had actually popped out of the connector. I looked up and saw some drops on the edge of the red tube (highlighted), so my guess is that we do indeed have a coolant leak going on here.

After cleaning the connector and popping the pin back into its housing, I plugged the set in hoping for an easy fix, but it was instead doing basically the same thing. By the time I got a closer look at the back, it almost looked like smoke was coming out of that connector, so I disconnected power. I'll remove the mainboard next and see if I can get a better look at it. In the meantime, does anybody have any pointers? Am I the only person who has had the red coolant leak inconveniently onto that connector?
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post #13306 of 13310 Old 07-19-2016, 07:51 AM
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Video Display Corp.

But remember, you gotta fix that blanking problem or this will repeat and ruin your new tubes too.

Mit had a kit they called the CM Kit back in the day, it would cure that blanking problem. I have seen horrendous scarring of the picture tubes, some much worse than yours.

As the beam slows down, it starts to gouge the phosphors, being much more powerful than it should be because it's going so much slower. In practice when things are working properly the beam just whizzes around there, never staying in one place longer than what would probably be hundredths of milliseconds. The blanking kit blanked the beam during turn off and slow down, keeping it away from that delicate film of phosphors that produces your picture.
Thanks Bob, I did find Video Display Corp with my google finger but not much luck on the blanking fix. I'll keep checking and if you know of a order kit site, please let me know.
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post #13307 of 13310 Old 07-19-2016, 09:07 AM
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Unhappy Removed & cleaned board; still no luck

Well, I got the mainboard out and thoroughly cleaned the affected area with alcohol and made sure that the connector was good to go. It appears as though it was the white plastic/tape of the ribbon that was burning before as it made a hole between two of the pins (pictured). Everything cleaned up quite nicely, but unfortunately, the power light is still flashing upon re-installation of the board. I checked around for other drips on other areas of the mainboard and other boards in the set, but haven't seen anything.

At this point, following the water has caused the trail to run cold. Any ideas as to what to check next?
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post #13308 of 13310 Old 07-21-2016, 06:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teleskier View Post
FYI - None of the local charities seem to take TVs larger than 27" any more.
I'm very happy to report that a local couple with soldering skills rescued my Pioneer Elite and were ecstatic with the picture quality. I am glad it found a good home where it will be valued as much as it was by me.
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post #13309 of 13310 Old 07-22-2016, 06:04 AM
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Post 9VS way off

Just to follow up on my coolant leak with the Mit WS-A65, I've been trying to do some diagnostic recon with the help of the folks over at BadCaps.net, but I wanted to see if anyone here had any tips too. At this point, I've determined that with everything hooked up, 9VS is fluctuating somewhere between 2 and 8.5 volts randomly. With the signal board (and/or the mainboard) disconnected, that number jumps to 24-29 volts (still randomly fluctuating). If anyone's got any ideas, feel free to chime in here or over in the troubleshooting thread on BadCaps; we can use all the help we can get on this one.
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post #13310 of 13310 Old Today, 09:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Your set may still be having the blinking green light of death, it may have happened concurrently. What you need to know is to replace the 1000uF caps with 680uF caps, all else staying the same.

You are lucky the blue tube was not the issue. It would have leaked onto your signal board, which is a green multi layer board. The brown ones are single layer boards. I have never failed to save the brown ones, have never succeeded in saving the green ones, tho I have heard that saving them has happened with intrepid techs who are willing to go the distance.

Not sure if the I2C interface works on that series. I do know that if your set has PerfectColor it won't, you have to use PC to correct the red push. If you do, you'll need filters to guide you, as the markings on the 6 sliders are not marked in any intelligible fashion.

That said, I have used my set's PC option to dial in my 73" to silky smooth color fidelity, completely lifelike with no red push. Just like in the old days, when they had the much more straightforward labeling in the service menu for color decoding on the first 2 HD series', the xxx03 and the xxx05 units.

Robert Jones
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bob at imageperfection dot com
www.projectiontvtroubleshootingadvice.com
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convergence , Panasonic Tc P65v10 65 Inch 1080p Plasma Hdtv , Pioneer Elite , pioneer sd-p5181-k , Plasma Hdtv

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