Don't dump your CRT RPTV! - Page 58 - AVS Forum
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post #1711 of 12552 Old 09-27-2007, 02:52 AM
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You are absolutely correct. I wonder how many calibration specialists actually do a cleaning on sets that are not new. In my opinion it is absolutely critical on most sets and is even part of nearly every repair that we do. It would be pointless to calibrate an older set without a thorough cleaning, IME.

Yes, calibration is important...every user should be calibrated.

Need electronics repair? A great place to start looking for a shop in your area: http://www.tvrepairpros.com/
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post #1712 of 12552 Old 09-27-2007, 06:28 AM
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Anyone have a link to, or can email a copy of the repair manual for this tv

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post #1713 of 12552 Old 09-27-2007, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lcaillo View Post

You are absolutely correct. I wonder how many calibration specialists actually do a cleaning on sets that are not new. In my opinion it is absolutely critical on most sets and is even part of nearly every repair that we do. It would be pointless to calibrate an older set without a thorough cleaning, IME.


My local Hitachi tech, when he was out earlier this year to replace my blue CRT, cleaned the optics right after removing the screen. TV was <1yr old, so not too dirty. Told me he ALWAYS does a cleaning on any CRT RPTV he services.

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post #1714 of 12552 Old 09-27-2007, 10:55 AM
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[quote=harleysilo;11742381]Anyone have a link to, or can email a copy of the repair manual for this tv
QUOTE]

What do you want to know about the set? If you have never changed the coolant, it is likely that it needs it.

Yes, calibration is important...every user should be calibrated.

Need electronics repair? A great place to start looking for a shop in your area: http://www.tvrepairpros.com/
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post #1715 of 12552 Old 09-27-2007, 12:54 PM
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[quote=lcaillo;11745417]
Quote:
Originally Posted by harleysilo View Post

Anyone have a link to, or can email a copy of the repair manual for this tv
QUOTE]

What do you want to know about the set? If you have never changed the coolant, it is likely that it needs it.

Oh it needs it....I've got directions I found on a site regarding changing fluid, but don't have specific part names so I thought a manual might help...

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post #1716 of 12552 Old 09-27-2007, 01:43 PM
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No parts needed other than the coolant and some silicone sealant, which you can buy from many suppliers. I use some that I get from Tritronics.

Be sure to take the CRTs apart completely and clean them thoroghly. Anyone who tells you to do it with a turkey baster is just doing it halfway.

Yes, calibration is important...every user should be calibrated.

Need electronics repair? A great place to start looking for a shop in your area: http://www.tvrepairpros.com/
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post #1717 of 12552 Old 09-27-2007, 03:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lcaillo View Post

No parts needed other than the coolant and some silicone sealant, which you can buy from many suppliers. I use some that I get from Tritronics.

Be sure to take the CRTs apart completely and clean them thoroghly. Anyone who tells you to do it with a turkey baster is just doing it halfway.


Agreed. Of course I know you mean to separate the coolant containing section from the CRT, rather than trying to invade the CRT itself, which "take the CRTs apart completely" COULD be interpreted as...



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post #1718 of 12552 Old 09-27-2007, 07:21 PM
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Uhhh, yes, I forget that people of all levels of understanding read this. And for those of you who thought I was kidding, the turkey baster is no joke. Lots of techs swear by that method...but then there are also calibrators that don't bother to clean the lenses...every field has its duds.

Yes, calibration is important...every user should be calibrated.

Need electronics repair? A great place to start looking for a shop in your area: http://www.tvrepairpros.com/
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post #1719 of 12552 Old 09-27-2007, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

I beg to differ. CRT is capable of the best blacks out there, and is HEAVILY compromised by the optics becoming powerful dust magnets in there, due to the HV.

Have you noticed any improvement in the dust collection with the ionizer(s)?

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Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #1720 of 12552 Old 09-28-2007, 04:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lcaillo View Post

No parts needed other than the coolant and some silicone sealant, which you can buy from many suppliers. I use some that I get from Tritronics.

Be sure to take the CRTs apart completely and clean them thoroghly. Anyone who tells you to do it with a turkey baster is just doing it halfway.

My concern is reassembly. The picture has always (for the past 5-6 years) looked crappy meaning if you are watching a football game, depending on the channel, it could be difficult to read the score LOL. So I'm pretty certain that minor adjustments need to be made that cannot be achieved by tweaking the tv's on screen menu. That is what I don't know how to do, and was hoping the repair manual might have step by step instructions.

As a matter of point, I don't know how to take the CRT's apart ATM, I've read about it online but without pics with part names I really don't know WTF they are talking about. I am the type of person who could at this point just do it, mostly liking I wouldn't screw it up, but I'd rather have some detailed model specific advice. For instance, is the part of the CRT that contains the fluid visible in this picture?

This TV can either be taken to the dump, or I can attempt to change the fluid and adjust the picture, then put it in the basement where it may get watched for several hours on Sat's until the years college football season is over. I will not be paying someone $500 to fix it properly, if I can't do it then that $500 could just as well be spent on a new TV.

I posted a thread about it here with pics which might show you that the TV is not the best candidate for a rescue.... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=913046

Thanks!
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post #1721 of 12552 Old 09-28-2007, 04:57 AM
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My Philips 60PP9601 just developed a problem with the red gun. Red now curves up on the top left and top right, more on the left than the right. It's especially bad in HD raster sqeeze mode. It can't be corrected via convergence. In squeeze mode the red goes way past where it supposed to on the upper left and upper right. Anyone have any idea what it might be?

Mark
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post #1722 of 12552 Old 09-28-2007, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harleysilo View Post

Anyone have a link to, or can email a copy of the repair manual for this tv


I bought a service manual for my Hitachi here:
http://www.servicemanuals.net/
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post #1723 of 12552 Old 09-28-2007, 08:24 AM - Thread Starter
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harleysilo -

No, that pic 3 responses back is of the bottom of the CRT. Where you need to get to is the top, where the coolant cover forms the coolant chamber, which forms the primary objective lens. It is under the lens barrel/stack, if you remove the lens barrel/stack for the green.

I once replaced missing fluid on a Panny by tilting the entire RPTV - huge, needed carefully placed 2x4s under the set to get it right - to the proper angle and removed the top of the chamber, containing the transparent coolant cover that forms the lens. Needed to get that particular chamber level, as all 3 chambers in there are at different angles, in aiming at the screen from 3 different directions.

Since the owner had simply undone the wrong screws and let some coolant out, I simply had to replace that missing coolant, which was not a great chore. I did, however, make sure that there were no bubbles in there after I was done replacing the fluid. There is a giant bubble that likes to reside at the top of the chamber once the box is back at its resting/operating position, which is outside the light path inside there but can cause internal reflections. That part of it was kinda bitchy, I must admit. But better than having to remove the gun woulda been.

In your case you gotta remove the top of the chamber and get in there and totally clean all surfaces, AND remove all traces of the old coolant, which is obviously contaminated, from everywhere in there. You don't want any of that stuff growing back.

DK whether my method would work for you. You may have to actually remove the CRT itself to be able to do the proper amount of work on it.

While you are in there, be sure to clean the top of the coolant cover, if it has a layer of dust on it. Which is included in the deeper optics cleaning that many CRT RPTVs need, later on in their lives.


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post #1724 of 12552 Old 09-29-2007, 11:24 AM
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So do I only need to remove the lens cover, and is this screw the one holding it in place, is that the lens cover?


Can the rest pictured below stay in place?

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post #1725 of 12552 Old 09-29-2007, 11:33 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harleysilo View Post

So do I only need to remove the lens cover, and is this screw the one holding it in place, is that the lens cover?


Can the rest pictured below stay in place?



No, that is NOT the coolant reservoir, that is the CRT. Where that widening glass part (which is the CRT) goes up and meets where the lens is, it's flat, and on there is where the coolant is. If it's air-coupled, on the CRT tube face there is a piece of plate glass sealed on it that holds the coolant, if it's liquid coupled theres a curved lens c-element in there that holds it in.

Have you read through the stuff on Curt's site?

See: http://www.curtpalme.com/Advanced_Procedures.shtm

Especially Tube Fungus removal, and there is other info there also you may find helpful.
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post #1726 of 12552 Old 09-29-2007, 01:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisWiggles View Post

No, that is NOT the coolant reservoir, that is the CRT. Where that widening glass part (which is the CRT) goes up and meets where the lens is, it's flat, and on there is where the coolant is. If it's air-coupled, on the CRT tube face there is a piece of plate glass sealed on it that holds the coolant, if it's liquid coupled theres a curved lens c-element in there that holds it in.

Have you read through the stuff on Curt's site?

See: http://www.curtpalme.com/Advanced_Procedures.shtm

Especially Tube Fungus removal, and there is other info there also you may find helpful.

Great article! Not completely applicable here, but great info anyway! And no, that is not the "base of the container with coolant", it is the CRT, (as answered above, just wanted there to be no ambiguity because of wordings being slightly changed).


The reverse Torx screws will have to come out, releasing the multi-element lens barrel. You'll have to get the proper screwdriver, they have obviously made it seriously hard to get in there and clean under your lenses! Or get handy with a needle-nosed... There are usually 4 screws holding the lens barrel down, onto the CRT cover plate, which in these pix is still covered up and thus whose screws are not shown.

Once you have removed the LENS BARREL- NOT the coolant cover plate, not yet at least! - you can then proceed to locating and removing the coolant cover plate, which from my experience for RPTVs has always been with a C-element concave transparent cover, rather than flat-plate air-coupled, which is what is dealt with in the Curt Palme front pj info. This concave cover forms the primary objective lens in the lens stack, and is an essential part of the lens stack, for proper projecting. Without its being concave and containing liquid, no intelligible images will show. That's how
RPTV lens stacks are designed.

After you have removed the lens barrel itself, STOP. Ground yourself before you move on, by taking a deep breath.

Once you have removed the screws holding the coolant cover plate in place, be ready for the coolant to escape, as it will flow outa there immediately once freed up. Be ready for this BEFORE you remove the screws holding the coolant cover plate in place.


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post #1727 of 12552 Old 09-29-2007, 02:24 PM
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Im in southern california (orange county) and soon moving and dont want to have to move my tv again, its a 65" pioneer elite 710HD.

anyone interested in it?
nick
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post #1728 of 12552 Old 09-29-2007, 02:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ulkesh3263827 View Post

Im in southern california (orange county) and soon moving and dont want to have to move my tv again, its a 65" pioneer elite 710HD.

anyone interested in it?
nick

Somebody grab that, it's an awesome set! I know 2 owners of 510s on the East Coast who both regret not having bought the larger screen 710 version, esp. after my having calibrated both of the ones they do own, earlier this year. They both have larger homes now and sit very far away for a 510 and the 710 would work much better.

I know both of them would spirit it away in a heartbeat, if they lived closer! If you're willing to possibly co-operate with one of them in having it trucked to the East Coast, I'll put you in touch with them.


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post #1729 of 12552 Old 09-29-2007, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

Great article! Not completely applicable here, but great info anyway! And no, that is not the "base of the container with coolant", it is the CRT, (as answered above, just wanted there to be no ambiguity because of wordings being slightly changed).


The reverse Torx screws will have to come out, releasing the multi-element lens barrel. You'll have to get the proper screwdriver, they have obviously made it seriously hard to get in there and clean under your lenses! Or get handy with a needle-nosed... There are usually 4 screws holding the lens barrel down, onto the CRT cover plate, which in these pix is still covered up and thus whose screws are not shown.

Once you have removed the LENS BARREL- NOT the coolant cover plate, not yet at least! - you can then proceed to locating and removing the coolant cover plate, which from my experience for RPTVs has always been with a C-element concave transparent cover, rather than flat-plate air-coupled, which is what is dealt with in the Curt Palme front pj info. This concave cover forms the primary objective lens in the lens stack, and is an essential part of the lens stack, for proper projecting. Without its being concave and containing liquid, no intelligible images will show. That's how
RPTV lens stacks are designed.

After you have removed the lens barrel itself, STOP. Ground yourself before you move on, by taking a deep breath.

Once you have removed the screws holding the coolant cover plate in place, be ready for the coolant to escape, as it will flow outa there immediately once freed up. Be ready for this BEFORE you remove the screws holding the coolant cover plate in place.


Mr Bob

On the philips set above removing the torx screws on the lens releases the seal on the coolant chamber! Be careful at this point not to get any coolant into the lens assy, as you will never get it out. There is not a separate plate like on other brands.

Yes, calibration is important...every user should be calibrated.

Need electronics repair? A great place to start looking for a shop in your area: http://www.tvrepairpros.com/
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post #1730 of 12552 Old 09-30-2007, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lcaillo View Post

On the philips set above removing the torx screws on the lens releases the seal on the coolant chamber! Be careful at this point not to get any coolant into the lens assy, as you will never get it out. There is not a separate plate like on other brands.

Thanks really good to know! Thanks to the two others who explained the process and parts clearly.

My final question, once I start removing the reverse torx screws on this philips tv, the seal will be broken/released on the coolant chamber, do I have to worry that it sprays out or does it more just start slow leaking out of the chamber?
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post #1731 of 12552 Old 09-30-2007, 07:59 AM
 
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Why can't you just remove the whole lens assembly off the CRT and then change the fluid???
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post #1732 of 12552 Old 09-30-2007, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splicer010 View Post

Why can't you just remove the whole lens assembly off the CRT and then change the fluid???

Can you explain clearly using my photo's exactly where the whole lens assembly ends and the crt begins?
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post #1733 of 12552 Old 09-30-2007, 11:00 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harleysilo View Post

Can you explain clearly using my photo's exactly where the whole lens assembly ends and the crt begins?

You can't really see it in your photos, again look through the guides and pictures on Curt's site and you can understand it better.

Again here: http://www.curtpalme.com/Advanced_Procedures.shtm

Look specifically at the G70 and G90 guides, both of those are Liquid-coupled, which is likely what your RPTV is, as Mr. Bob points out. The LC machines have the curved lens element mounted directly on the tubeface that holds the glycol in a large rounded chamber. AC(air-coupled) machines just have the flat piece of plate glass as shown in the previous guide that I linked. Hopefully this helps you out:

http://www.curtpalme.com/Sony_G70_Tube_Swap1.shtm

In your pictures, you can't really see anything of that because of the housing around the tube-face and the lens that is still mounted on there. If you pull the lens off, you'll see directly the C-element and down through that to the tubeface. It's hard to explain, it's pretty intuitive in the G70 guide there though, or the G90 one, for you to understand better.
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post #1734 of 12552 Old 09-30-2007, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisWiggles View Post

You can't really see it in your photos, again look through the guides and pictures on Curt's site and you can understand it better.

Again here: http://www.curtpalme.com/Advanced_Procedures.shtm

Look specifically at the G70 and G90 guides, both of those are Liquid-coupled, which is likely what your RPTV is, as Mr. Bob points out. The LC machines have the curved lens element mounted directly on the tubeface that holds the glycol in a large rounded chamber. AC(air-coupled) machines just have the flat piece of plate glass as shown in the previous guide that I linked. Hopefully this helps you out:

http://www.curtpalme.com/Sony_G70_Tube_Swap1.shtm

In your pictures, you can't really see anything of that because of the housing around the tube-face and the lens that is still mounted on there. If you pull the lens off, you'll see directly the C-element and down through that to the tubeface. It's hard to explain, it's pretty intuitive in the G70 guide there though, or the G90 one, for you to understand better.


Thanks, I'll review the sites you relisted and begin, I just have to pick up some reverse torx screwdriver bits first and order the coolant. Thanks again for everones information.
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post #1735 of 12552 Old 10-01-2007, 02:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harleysilo View Post

Thanks, I'll review the sites you relisted and begin, I just have to pick up some reverse torx screwdriver bits first and order the coolant. Thanks again for everones information.

You probably better look for 1/4" drive female/external Torx sockets instead, because I doubt that you will find anything that's called a reverse Torx screwdriver, unless you can find them sold like nutdrivers. And if you do, they very likely would also cost a lot more to buy that way. A partial 5 to 7 piece set of 1/4" drive Torx sockets in the smaller sizes that you would need, should be about $20 or so from Sears or a home center store like Home Depot or Lowes.
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post #1736 of 12552 Old 10-01-2007, 08:04 AM
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So it would be recommended for me to remove the CRT from the TV prior to changing the fluid...



And then once I have it out flip it upside down to prevent any drain fluid from getting in the Lens Assembly, correct?

Thanks again for everyones input I really do appreciate it!
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post #1737 of 12552 Old 10-01-2007, 08:23 AM
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The thumbscrew is for lens focus adjustment.

The screw to the right of that in the pic (labelled "releases seal...") is one of the screws that hold the lens assembly on.

Should be screws underneath that (after removng lens assembly) that would remove the coolant cup lens.

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post #1738 of 12552 Old 10-01-2007, 09:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwebb1970 View Post

Should be screws underneath that (after removng lens assembly) that would remove the coolant cup lens.

Answered above. No more screws under there. The Torx ones are all you get - when you remove the lens you remove the coolant cover at the same time, evidently.



Penny wise and pound foolish design on Philips' part, IMHO.



Once you remove the lens/cover, the liquid will spill out, so be ready. Whether you have removed the CRT or not, in its final position it needs to be upright, facing up and completely level, if you don't want that glycol all over the place.

And the screws that only show their shank need to be removed from the side of the CRT assy that you can't see. Don't touch them where they are visible, you might ruin their threads.


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post #1739 of 12552 Old 10-01-2007, 10:34 AM
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O.k. so the lens covers a dish like container full of the coolant and must be kept level to avoid spilling. So once I get the lens cover off the dish like container is what needs to be cleaned completely before replacing the coolant as well as lens assembly if possible. Sounds like I don't need a "turkey baster" then to remove / replace coolant.
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post #1740 of 12552 Old 10-01-2007, 10:37 AM
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Also what is the difference between the manual focus thumbscrew adjustment in the most recent pic compared to the focus adjustments here....

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