2007 Mitsubishi 57” and 65” 831 Owner's Thread [NO PRICE TALK] - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 549 Old 09-27-2006, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by LesMoss View Post

Another reason to stay with 480p is that the Mits can't do aspect ratio adjustments (like Expand and Zoom) on 720 or 1080. This makes it unable to handle non-anamorphic DVDs at those resolutions.

This will be a real problem for Toshiba HD-DVD players.

LesMoss, can you fill me in on the details here? This is the first I'm hearing about this. Information on exactly what the situation is would be much appreciated if you had the time.

Best, Riyad
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post #362 of 549 Old 09-27-2006, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by rsk View Post

LesMoss, can you fill me in on the details here? This is the first I'm hearing about this. Information on exactly what the situation is would be much appreciated if you had the time.

All DVD players that I know of either "pillar box" or stretch non-anamorphic dvds. Thus the TV needs to make an aspect ratio adjustment (Zoom or Expand in Mits terms) to get the image right. All TVs can do this for 480i signals. Most TVs can not do that for higher resolutions. Luckily, the new Mits will do it for 480p.

The trouble comes when you have an HD DVD player. In that case, the output is set to 1080 to get the full HD resolution, but non-anamorphic SD DVDs will have black bars top, bottom left and right. You will see many complaints about this in the HD DVD forum.
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post #363 of 549 Old 09-27-2006, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by LesMoss View Post

All DVD players that I know of either "pillar box" or stretch non-anamorphic dvds. Thus the TV needs to make an aspect ratio adjustment (Zoom or Expand in Mits terms) to get the image right. All TVs can do this for 480i signals. Most TVs can not do that for higher resolutions. Luckily, the new Mits will do it for 480p.

The trouble comes when you have an HD DVD player. In that case, the output is set to 1080 to get the full HD resolution, but non-anamorphic SD DVDs will have black bars top, bottom left and right. You will see many complaints about this in the HD DVD forum.

Are these some of the problems that the Toshiba HD-A2 and AX2 (or whatever it's called) are looking to solve with 1080p output?

Best, Riyad
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post #364 of 549 Old 09-27-2006, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by jnelson2000 View Post

Anyone who has ordered one direct through Mits Bucks have an ETA on delivery or anyone received theirs yet?

still waiting here ..........

Hear me now, Listen to me later....
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post #365 of 549 Old 09-28-2006, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by rsk View Post

Are these some of the problems that the Toshiba HD-A2 and AX2 (or whatever it's called) are looking to solve with 1080p output?

Not that I know of. This is one of these "problems" that is not acknowledged by DVD or TV makers. They each think the other guy should take care of it. I think the DVD players should do it since they are the only device which knows that the content is non-anamorphic.
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post #366 of 549 Old 09-28-2006, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by rsk View Post

Rez, I'm not that farimliar with the Oppo's settings, but if you can control what it outputs, set it to output 480p and let the Mits upscale to the 1080p. Do *not* set the Oppo to output any i-resolution (720i, 1080i, etc.) and I think it's been discussed here before that the scaler in the Mits is fantastic while the scaler in other devices are hit and miss, so just output the full DVD signal at 480p and let the Mits take it from there.

As far as not doing any i-resolution, you don't want to force the signal to go from progressive to interlaced and then have the TV convert it back to progressive again, way too much processing and signal degredation as opposed to a nice 2-step: 480p -> 1080p

Thanks. Very good points. Based on different experimentations, and about 5 different movies, I now have it(Oppo 971) set to the 480p all the time. Others in this thread have said do not use 1080i (which does look worse...probably for the technical reasons you gave)...But 720p looks great also (since it's also not interlaced).
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post #367 of 549 Old 09-28-2006, 08:04 PM
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Hey, Tweeters' end of Month, End of Quarter and End of Fiscal Year is Saturday. If you intend to do any negotiating, and you have your eye on a Tweeters TV, esp one in stock, think about it.....
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post #368 of 549 Old 09-28-2006, 08:35 PM
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I have a LG RC99H DVD/VCR combo unit playing with the resolution control I have found that I like it set to 480p instead of 720 or 1080i settings. This allows more formatting choices from the Mit in which I like the widescreen DVD's formatted into 480p Expanded and it fills the screen real nice (still have black bar's on top and bottom but it looks proportional). Set at 1080i you have lot's of black space above and below the picture. But I like the larger image and the picture looks great since the Mit is upconverting.

But give this a option a try.
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post #369 of 549 Old 09-30-2006, 01:00 PM
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Majeskty,

In the Sammy 5679 thread, you said about your Mis57831:

" DVD is connected through the HDMI .... The new Mit I have turns out will decode the AC3 from the DVD so I can have sound from the tv of the disk or turn on the surround sound for 5.1 less messing around".

Are you sure about this?

The Mits manual says: "note that the
HDMI inputs can receive digital stereo audio
signals only. To use digital surround sound for
an HDMI or DVI device, connect that device's
digital audio output directly to your A/V
receiver".

Do you have your DVD player connected directly to your receiver or only to the TV? What makes you think that the TV is decoding DD5.1?

If this TV does accept DD5.1 and decode it and pass it thru to the digital audio output, I will buy it.
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post #370 of 549 Old 09-30-2006, 02:22 PM
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I am running my PC to the 831 65in via dvi to dvi. Anybody know what seetings should be used for the entire picture to be on screen

thx
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post #371 of 549 Old 09-30-2006, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LesMoss View Post

Majeskty,

In the Sammy 5679 thread, you said about your Mis57831:

" DVD is connected through the HDMI .... The new Mit I have turns out will decode the AC3 from the DVD so I can have sound from the tv of the disk or turn on the surround sound for 5.1 less messing around".

Are you sure about this?

The Mits manual says: "note that the
HDMI inputs can receive digital stereo audio
signals only. To use digital surround sound for
an HDMI or DVI device, connect that device's
digital audio output directly to your A/V
receiver".

Do you have your DVD player connected directly to your receiver or only to the TV? What makes you think that the TV is decoding DD5.1?

If this TV does accept DD5.1 and decode it and pass it thru to the digital audio output, I will buy it.

With the Samsung to get sound from the DVD through the 'TV speakers' the DVD Player had to be set to PCM and not Bitstream.

Now the Mit itself may not pass through 5.1 but it must be at least taking a bitstream singal and down converting to maybe PCM. But the Mit is doing this and not having to change settings on the player. This is through the HDMI connection from the DVD to the 57831. This makes it so I can have sound from the TV and not always from my Pioneer Elite surround sound without all the settings changes.

I have not had a change to check the manual for the output jacks in the back. But I will when I have more time. Still have to move and reconnect all the components to a different cabinet.

I hope this helps clarify things
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post #372 of 549 Old 09-30-2006, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brisal73 View Post

I am running my PC to the 831 65in via dvi to dvi. Anybody know what seetings should be used for the entire picture to be on screen

thx

The pc looks ok on the dvi for reading the net ect.. boring computer tasks...
but if you want the most kick a-- 1080P HTPC then break all the rules and
put it on the hdmi... same movies on my cox 8300 in hd now have no discernable difference from a regular 480I rented DVD... with a simple ati dvi card I get everything upscaled to 1080P.. My Pics High speed tennis shots at 15 frs
movies.. The dvi port is a sad disapointment for a HTPC... you lose
all the punch.

I now have had my set since sept 12 and have 313 hrs on it... 6 hrs PC and 12 hrs of TV only sleep 4 to give us both a little needed down time

Try if for yourself.... its stunning
Hehehehe
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post #373 of 549 Old 09-30-2006, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenguru View Post

The pc looks ok on the dvi for reading the net ect.. boring computer tasks...
but if you want the most kick a-- 1080P HTPC then break all the rules and
put it on the hdmi... same movies on my cox 8300 in hd now have no discernable difference from a regular 480I rented DVD... with a simple ati dvi card I get everything upscaled to 1080P.. My Pics High speed tennis shots at 15 frs
movies.. The dvi port is a sad disapointment for a HTPC... you lose
all the punch.

I now have had my set since sept 12 and have 313 hrs on it... 6 hrs PC and 12 hrs of TV only sleep 4 to give us both a little needed down time

Try if for yourself.... its stunning
Hehehehe

wow...thats a lot of tv watching and video games for an adult.
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post #374 of 549 Old 09-30-2006, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by largdiag View Post

wow...thats a lot of tv watching and video games for an adult.


Hey!!

No name calling...

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post #375 of 549 Old 10-01-2006, 01:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenguru View Post

The pc looks ok on the dvi for reading the net ect.. boring computer tasks...
but if you want the most kick a-- 1080P HTPC then break all the rules and
put it on the hdmi... same movies on my cox 8300 in hd now have no discernable difference from a regular 480I rented DVD... with a simple ati dvi card I get everything upscaled to 1080P.. My Pics High speed tennis shots at 15 frs
movies.. The dvi port is a sad disapointment for a HTPC... you lose
all the punch.

I now have had my set since sept 12 and have 313 hrs on it... 6 hrs PC and 12 hrs of TV only sleep 4 to give us both a little needed down time

Try if for yourself.... its stunning
Hehehehe

but what are your settings. I select 1900 - 1080p but i get a 1/2 inch cut from the top an bottom and a full inch on left and right. I have Powerstrip, but it doesnt seem to work.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thx
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post #376 of 549 Old 10-01-2006, 05:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Brisal73 View Post

but what are your settings. I select 1900 - 1080p but i get a 1/2 inch cut from the top an bottom and a full inch on left and right. I have Powerstrip, but it doesnt seem to work.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thx

Use the input ports as they were designed to be used. Many users have sub-optimal setups.
Someone did post to the Mits 732 thread and the HTPC forum about 1:1 mapping at something like 1792*1008 with custom Nvidia timings several days ago.

BTW almost all most television displays (1080 or not) are not suitable for displaying fine text clearly, even at their native resolution. Designs standards need to be raised, and quality control needs to be improved first.
Even for flat panel LCDs TVS, the 1:1 mapping situation is horrendous, notable only for its sheer stupidity. (Actually ulterior motives are at work: establishment manufactures scheme to sell you a better future display. The Chinese have sold low quality 1:1 pixel mapping tv monitors for years.)
However the very latest 46" LCD displays from Toshiba allow for 1:1 pixel mapping at 1920*1080p.
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post #377 of 549 Old 10-01-2006, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by largdiag View Post

wow...thats a lot of tv watching and video games for an adult.

I beg your pardon....
I never made any claims of adulthood
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post #378 of 549 Old 10-01-2006, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Majeskty View Post

With the Samsung to get sound from the DVD through the 'TV speakers' the DVD Player had to be set to PCM and not Bitstream.

Now the Mit itself may not pass through 5.1 but it must be at least taking a bitstream singal and down converting to maybe PCM. But the Mit is doing this and not having to change settings on the player. This is through the HDMI connection from the DVD to the 57831. This makes it so I can have sound from the TV and not always from my Pioneer Elite surround sound without all the settings changes.

Thanks for the reply. Clearly the Mits is doing something better than the Sammy by accepting bitstream. I guess its too early to tell exactly what is happening. It could be that the DVD player is delivering a 2 channel dolby surround encoding on the bitsream. The only way to tell for sure is to see if your receiver says DD5.1 when it gets its DVD audio signal from the TVs digital audio out.

I look forward to your future report.
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post #379 of 549 Old 10-01-2006, 02:02 PM
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Ive got a question about recording from my 65732. If I get the toshiba 160hd4 for my tv and in the tv guide menu set it to record at a later time in the day and then leave the house with the tv off, Will the tv still turn on the DVR and record the show or does it only work with the tv turned on making the dvr basicly usesless.

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post #380 of 549 Old 10-01-2006, 02:06 PM
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Ive got a question about recording from my 65732. If I get the toshiba 160hd4 for my tv and in the tv guide menu set it to record at a later time in the day and then leave the house with the tv off, Will the tv still turn on the DVR and record the show or does it only work with the tv turned on making the dvr basicly usesless.

The tv has to be in the semi power off mode. I forgot what its called. Check that. It may be that since you have a firewire dvr attached that the tv already knows to be in that mode and that will be the only choice if the hd4 is connected.

hd4 works great, biggest problem is you cannot view a different channel or even a different input while its recording. I understand the single tuner thing, but a major mits blunder was not allowing a different input to be viewed while recording with the tv tuner.
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post #381 of 549 Old 10-01-2006, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by largdiag View Post

The tv has to be in the semi power off mode. I forgot what its called. Check that. It may be that since you have a firewire dvr attached that the tv already knows to be in that mode and that will be the only choice if the hd4 is connected.

hd4 works great, biggest problem is you cannot view a different channel or even a different input while its recording. I understand the single tuner thing, but a major mits blunder was not allowing a different input to be viewed while recording with the tv tuner.


On other question, I was reading through my netcommand book and it said that I can not record analoug programming to a DVR device only digital programming. While I mainly only really care abour recording HDTV am I SOL on SD material with this setup?

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post #382 of 549 Old 10-01-2006, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by VisionxOrb View Post

On other question, I was reading through my netcommand book and it said that I can not record analoug programming to a DVR device only digital programming. While I mainly only really care abour recording HDTV am I SOL on SD material with this setup?

If you have a digital box with your cable its all digital. Your sending HDMI to the TV right? Its all digital. So the 160hd4 will record it fine. It do it all the time. Or if you have a cable card.

Now if your going direct in to the TV Im not sure what happens. there is an option to record analog in the TV setup when you first install the 160hd4 but its na for me so I never paid attention. Its discussed in the TV manual though.
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post #383 of 549 Old 10-01-2006, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by largdiag View Post

The tv has to be in the semi power off mode. I forgot what its called. Check that. It may be that since you have a firewire dvr attached that the tv already knows to be in that mode and that will be the only choice if the hd4 is connected.

hd4 works great, biggest problem is you cannot view a different channel or even a different input while its recording. I understand the single tuner thing, but a major mits blunder was not allowing a different input to be viewed while recording with the tv tuner.


On a side note, are there any good DVR apps out there to do this on a computer instead of a STB DVR? Ive seen the firebus program but everything ive read says its utter crap. But if theres somthing else out there that functions correctly as dvr software ( i.e. my TV can control it and record with out me having to anything ) That also works for me since I have a PC connected to the TV anyway.

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post #384 of 549 Old 10-01-2006, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by largdiag View Post

If you have a digital box with your cable its all digital. Your sending HDMI to the TV right? Its all digital. So the 160hd4 will record it fine. It do it all the time. Or if you have a cable card.

Now if your going direct in to the TV Im not sure what happens. there is an option to record analog in the TV setup when you first install the 160hd4 but its na for me so I never paid attention. Its discussed in the TV manual though.

Yeah im not using a digital cable box. My tv has cablecard but im not using it yet, not until Timewarner brings us ( an old adelphia user ) to there line up, which for newbury park california isnt until nov 14 according to there website.

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post #385 of 549 Old 10-01-2006, 02:38 PM
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Yeah im not using a digital cable box. My tv has cablecard but im not using it yet, not until Timewarner brings us ( an old adelphia user ) to there line up, which for newbury park california isnt until nov 14 according to there website.

well if you got the 160hd4 you might try a test and see if it records say NBC SD when going coax direct in. Other wise I dont see you have any issues once you get set up with your new cable. BTW youll want a hd DVR vs the cable card.

The DVR will be 2 tuner and will have excellent TVGUIDe. Its basically a TIVO and lightyears ahead of VHS recording. you can record and still switch channel. Or record 2 things simultaneously and watch a 3rd recording from it. The TVGUide that provided by Mits when using cable card or direct in is slow.....slow....slow and of course you can only record the one channel and you then lose control of the TV....no channel or input changing.

With the DVR, even if you got it fully used up, you can still view the other input on the TV via your cable card or direct coax input.

The motorola 6416III is the latest HDDVR. 160G drive. Great box. Cost about $500 new. My cable company though requires I rent it for $9/month. Good deal vs 500 since it will be obsolete in 1 year. New TIVO i hear will be nice too. CHeck you options with the cable company.

And most importanly, I can see no PQ difference when using DVR via HDMI, cable card or direct coax in HD (my cable company provides HD as standard service on cable for broadcast channels). there were all excellent and this after several weeks of comparing with notion of keeping cable card. BTW i have cable card AND DVR AND direct coax input simultaneously. The cable card is painfully slow to change channels and work the TV GUIDE.
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post #386 of 549 Old 10-01-2006, 02:43 PM
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I beg your pardon....
I never made any claims of adulthood

nor here. I envy your stamina!
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post #387 of 549 Old 10-01-2006, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reincarnate View Post

Use the input ports as they were designed to be used. Many users have sub-optimal setups.
Someone did post to the Mits 732 thread and the HTPC forum about 1:1 mapping at something like 1792*1008 with custom Nvidia timings several days ago.

BTW almost all most television displays (1080 or not) are not suitable for displaying fine text clearly, even at their native resolution. Designs standards need to be raised, and quality control needs to be improved first.
Even for flat panel LCDs TVS, the 1:1 mapping situation is horrendous, notable only for its sheer stupidity. (Actually ulterior motives are at work: establishment manufactures scheme to sell you a better future display. The Chinese have sold low quality 1:1 pixel mapping tv monitors for years.)
However the very latest 46" LCD displays from Toshiba allow for 1:1 pixel mapping at 1920*1080p.

That was me, With my PC running to the DVI in at 1080p for some reason I wasnt able to use the overscan option in my nvidia drivers ( using the latest ) even when I set force dectect TV. So instead I took a PC monitor centric approch. Under the digital flatpanel settings in the driver I changed the output to center output.

Normally the card tries to scale to fill a LCD monitor so If you have a 1280x1024 screen and set your res to 1024x768 th computer streches that match and you get a blurry picture. With centered output it would send the 1024x768 in a window for the 1280x1024 screem giving 1:1 with a black boarder around it. I was counting on this for my TV and it worked. I set it to center out, made a new resolution of 1792x1008 which is still 16:9.

At first powerstrip told me that that resolution was beyond the capability of my hardware/monitor. At first I lost hope and clicked ok. Then the next window said the driver accepted it and would I like to switch to it now. So now my hope had returned and I clicked hell yes. When it switch I got 1:1 with no overscan and I was happy.

Ive been using my TV to surf the web now since ive done that ( infacting im typing on it now ) and honestly the picture quality is so good id say it rivals my LCD monitor. The text is that sharp. athough note that I did set my internet text to large from medium and under the apperance tab under the display settings I made it one size larger also. the text was rather small at 11 feet for my eyesite otherwise.

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post #388 of 549 Old 10-01-2006, 07:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by VisionxOrb View Post

Ive been using my TV to surf the web now since ive done that ( infacting im typing on it now ) and honestly the picture quality is so good id say it rivals my LCD monitor. The text is that sharp. athough note that I did set my internet text to large from medium and under the apperance tab under the display settings I made it one size larger also. the text was rather small at 11 feet for my eyesite otherwise.

This is exactly why any three panel design has a very tough time trying to compete against a single panel design.

"The text is that sharp. "
This monumental statement is seldom if ever spoken here. Congratulations!
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post #389 of 549 Old 10-01-2006, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by reincarnate View Post

This is exactly why any three panel design has a very tough time trying to compete against a single panel design.

"The text is that sharp. "
This monumental statement is seldom if ever spoken here. Congratulations!

exactly. also the colors lenses drops the light intensity 3 x more vs the DLP single panel. Not to mentioned the misalignment issue between pixel cells, especially with the SXRD that causes refraction and the common problem called green glob. WHen they pushed the cells closer together to reduce the SSE the ugly green glob monster appeared.
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post #390 of 549 Old 10-01-2006, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by largdiag View Post

exactly. also the colors lenses drops the light intensity 3 x more vs the DLP single panel. Not to mentioned the misalignment issue between pixel cells, especially with the SXRD that causes refraction and the common problem called green glob. WHen they pushed the cells closer together to reduce the SSE the ugly green glob monster appeared.

Whoa there freind. Lots of assumptions there that are not completely correct. Yes, a three chip system does have some drawbacks. But lets look at the comparison without the vitriolic anti-SXRD tripe that you have been spewing.

There are many more components to the optical system that can cause problems, and the light is split to feed all three chips at the same time, but an advantage of 3 times? Not really. The three chip system uses dichoic mirrors to separate out the light into three colors and direct it to the corresponding chip. There is some inefficiency, but not a factor of three. Also, remember, that color wheel is only passing each color one sixth of the time (in the mits sets), so each primary is illuminating the chip on ly one third of the time. At that time it is only passing a fraction of the total light.

As for convergence, good quality control is essential in a three-chip system with no adjustments like is used on the optical blocks in the Sonys. There can be some problems there, but we have not seen them, yet. But then the DLP single chip solution has the color wheel...

Green glob...well, I have not heard a definative explanation and there are likely a number of different problems that have ben lumped into one here. It seems to be similar to lamp issues in that most people don't have a problem, but the ones that do bitch loudly. Color anomolies like this have been well known in 3 chip LCD systems for years, due to lamp color temp variations, filter degradation, thermal sensitivities in various light path components, UV sensitivity, etc. The bottom line is, we have yet to see the problem nor have a single complaint in the sets we have sold. Sharp LCD projectors had dicoloration due to bad spots in lamps years ago that likely amounted to more problems as a percentage of sets sold. Certainly their defective blue filters and poarizers did. We have only seen sporadic problems of that sort with most modern three-chip LCDs and even less with the SXRD.

Your description of "misalignment issue between pixel cells" is completely meaningless and indicates a lack of understanding of how the chips work. Similarly, I know of no evidence that supports the notion that "WHen they pushed the cells closer together to reduce the SSE the ugly green glob monster appeared." If that was true, why do relatively few of the sets exhibit the problem? What is the physics of this phenomenon?

The overall performance of the SXRD and the better DLP systems is similar. I do have a slight preference for the single chip solution because of the simplicity, but the SXRD sets are a fine product and a case can be made for them. They come out of the box looking better than the Mits IME and opinion. After calibration they both perform very well. There are thing to like about both and deficiencies in both.

For those that want the truth, either product performs quite well and has proven thus far to be similar or better in reliability than CRT RPTVs that we have sold for years. In the long run I expect them to be better by quite a margin, for at least two reasons, CRT aging and convergence outputs. The three chip system, whether it is SXRD, DLP, LCD, LCOS, or other variants, will always have the risk of filter and panel damage that DLP does not. DLP has the rotating color wheel and wobulation module as potential mechanical failure points. Only time will tell how they hold up.

We sell both products and work with them all the time. Most folks who know me realize that I don't pull punches when it comes to manufacturers putting out crap or having ineffective service. Sony has had their problems at times, but I have seen no significant and reliable evidence that there is a serious one with the SXRD. If it turns out that there is, I am sure that they will take care of their customers like they have in the past with the PDP panel failures and the flickering CRT sets. Lots of sets as old as 5 years have been fixed or replaced by Sony at N/C. In this way they are similar to Mitsubishi. Both are among the best in this regard, and in terms of service support, training, and service networks.

Now, lets get back to discussing Mitsubishi here. I suggest that everyone start ignoring your posts if you continue.

Yes, calibration is important...every user should be calibrated.

Need electronics repair? A great place to start looking for a shop in your area: http://www.tvrepairpros.com/
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