2007 Mitsubishi 57” and 65” 831 Owner's Thread [NO PRICE TALK] - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 549 Old 02-06-2007, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phlytrap View Post

I am thinking about doing just that this weekend.

Can someone describe their impressions of the TurboLight180 and High Contrast screen features of the 831? Are they worth the difference to anyone?

I will be using a Harmony (or similar) remote, so I don't really care about the remote upgrades.

Thanks in advance.

I was going to get a 57732 for this reason (save $300), but after looking high-and-low for the best deal I actually wound up getting a better deal on a 57831...it will be delivered this Saturday. Personally, I like the high-gloss appearance a little better, and even my wife noticed the "brighter" picture when compared to the 732 sitting by its side.
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post #452 of 549 Old 02-06-2007, 05:22 PM
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Mitsubishi Pi$$ed me off.

My 65831 full remote stopped working last week, so I called Mitsubishi's part department
for replacement under warranty. Parts said I need to call Customer Relation and
ask for level 2 support. Then I called Customer Relation and ask to speak to a level
2 person, no they won't transfer me, asked for my info, and tell me to reset my remote
and hang up. I said no, I waited for 15 minutes and spent 10 minutes with
this guy to hang up that easy. Finally, he agreed to transfer me to level 2, I waited
for another 10 minutes, and a woman finally picked up my call. Her attitude was bad
from the beginning with, and tried to ask me the same crap that the first person already asked, then
I said "can't you stop wasting my time and just send me the remote?" She backed off
and agreed to send me a replacement after 40 minutes on the phone.

I got the replacement today, and it is the wrong remote, they sent me the simple remote!!
I am not happy, so I called Customer Relation again, the CSR told me to call Part because
they sent me the wrong remote. I said the P.O. clearly show the level 2 person ordered
the simple remote for my replacement. I asked him to transfer me to level 2, and again
he refused, I lost it and yell at the guy, then he tried to transfer to level 2, but they
are all gone and promised to call me tomorrow.

I can't believe the freaking remote that came with a $4K TV stopped working after 4
months. Also, I can't believe how much hard time Mitsubishi"t" gave me for the replacement.
I guess this is my last Mitsubishi"t" TV, I can't believe they target high end market with this
kind of service, they should sell their TV at Walmart to match thier service

Thanks for your reading
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post #453 of 549 Old 02-20-2007, 08:45 PM
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Well it finally happened today. I got my WD65831 on 9-12-06 and loved it from day one. Starting a couple of months ago I started getting the airflow message and like others I could get it to go away. Usually, just shutting down the TV and letting it go through it's total shut down (green flashing LED stopping) I could power back up with no problems. The airflow usually only showed up about once a week if not longer than that. Only once did I have to unplug the TV after the airflow message to get it to work again and that was shortly after the first time that message popped up.

Finally today, my kids were watching a show while I was in the room and POP! The loudest bulb bursting I've ever heard. The screen went black and of course the red LED came up. I pretty much knew what happened. Last time I checked the service menu about a month ago I only had 1700 hours on the factory lamp. I'm sure within the month I haven't watched 2000 hours of TV and I know I've always used the settings on natural that I believe jnelson put on the page months ago. The screen looked great but I had noticed that the past few days the screen seemed to be pretty dark. I just passed this off to the shows being displayed were the problem.

Well, I called Mits and got the usual run around from their service department that it seems they are great at giving. After having to call back their parts department and spending about 20 min on the phone with someone I could hardly understand they said the new lamp would be on it's way and I would have to pick it up at a UPS store (since they don't let UPS deliver them anymore). They DEFINITELY made sure that this was my first lamp replacement and made it clear they only give out 1 lamp during the warranty period. It will be here on Friday and after I change out the lamp I have to send them the broken one back. That wasn't a surprise since I remember seeing that in the manual day 1 when I got the TV.

I haven't been keeping up on the thread much since I've been WAY too busy enjoying my TV but I was wondering if anyone else has had this problem after such a long time and being one of the first to get this model after it's release. I've been good about not turning it on and off frequently. I remember reading that if you are going to not watch it for 20 min or so it's best to leave it on and that's what I've done. I just hate to think that with this great TV that I'm going to have to get a new bulb every 5 months or so. I'm hoping it was just a bad batch of lamps since I remember them being in a rush to get the 831s out before the XBR2s way back when. I bought an extended service warranty for 5 years and with 1 bulb but at this rate I'll be buying my own lamps before this TV is 2 years old. I'd just hate to look forward to that when everything about this TV is incredible. Having to shell out $300 every 5 months will be a huge black spot to me with Mits if that's the case.

Just hoping it was a fluke and my next lamp will last me well over 3000 hours. Look forward to reading people's reponses.
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post #454 of 549 Old 02-21-2007, 04:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svalley View Post

Mitsubishi Pi$$ed me off.

My 65831 full remote stopped working last week, so I called Mitsubishi's part department
for replacement under warranty. Parts said I need to call Customer Relation and
ask for level 2 support. Then I called Customer Relation and ask to speak to a level
2 person, no they won't transfer me, asked for my info, and tell me to reset my remote
and hang up. I said no, I waited for 15 minutes and spent 10 minutes with
this guy to hang up that easy. Finally, he agreed to transfer me to level 2, I waited
for another 10 minutes, and a woman finally picked up my call. Her attitude was bad
from the beginning with, and tried to ask me the same crap that the first person already asked, then
I said "can't you stop wasting my time and just send me the remote?" She backed off
and agreed to send me a replacement after 40 minutes on the phone.

I got the replacement today, and it is the wrong remote, they sent me the simple remote!!
I am not happy, so I called Customer Relation again, the CSR told me to call Part because
they sent me the wrong remote. I said the P.O. clearly show the level 2 person ordered
the simple remote for my replacement. I asked him to transfer me to level 2, and again
he refused, I lost it and yell at the guy, then he tried to transfer to level 2, but they
are all gone and promised to call me tomorrow.

I can't believe the freaking remote that came with a $4K TV stopped working after 4
months. Also, I can't believe how much hard time Mitsubishi"t" gave me for the replacement.
I guess this is my last Mitsubishi"t" TV, I can't believe they target high end market with this
kind of service, they should sell their TV at Walmart to match thier service

Thanks for your reading

I agree Mits service is no service. However, did you try to reset the TV via the front button. In my manual it says to do a reset if the remote stops functioning. Good luck.

Some days it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints.
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post #455 of 549 Old 02-21-2007, 05:19 AM
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Have you considered going back to your dealer and let them handle dealing with Mitsubishi? Had one of my clients had a bad remote, there would be a new one on the way immediately.

Overall, in dealing with many vendors for many years, I have learned that most of them can be a PITA to deal with if you don't have the right contacts and know how to negotiate their system. Mitsubishi has provided, by far, the best support with regard to helping us keep clients happy, and has done so for many years. There are things that don't make sense about how they do business, and they have their share of idiots, but in this industry, they are far better than most.

Yes, calibration is important...every user should be calibrated.

Need electronics repair? A great place to start looking for a shop in your area: http://www.tvrepairpros.com/
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post #456 of 549 Old 02-22-2007, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fitterguy73 View Post

Well it finally happened today. I got my WD65831 on 9-12-06 and loved it from day one. Starting a couple of months ago I started getting the airflow message and like others I could get it to go away. Usually, just shutting down the TV and letting it go through it's total shut down (green flashing LED stopping) I could power back up with no problems. The airflow usually only showed up about once a week if not longer than that. Only once did I have to unplug the TV after the airflow message to get it to work again and that was shortly after the first time that message popped up.

Finally today, my kids were watching a show while I was in the room and POP! The loudest bulb bursting I've ever heard. The screen went black and of course the red LED came up. I pretty much knew what happened. Last time I checked the service menu about a month ago I only had 1700 hours on the factory lamp. I'm sure within the month I haven't watched 2000 hours of TV and I know I've always used the settings on natural that I believe jnelson put on the page months ago. The screen looked great but I had noticed that the past few days the screen seemed to be pretty dark. I just passed this off to the shows being displayed were the problem.

Well, I called Mits and got the usual run around from their service department that it seems they are great at giving. After having to call back their parts department and spending about 20 min on the phone with someone I could hardly understand they said the new lamp would be on it's way and I would have to pick it up at a UPS store (since they don't let UPS deliver them anymore). They DEFINITELY made sure that this was my first lamp replacement and made it clear they only give out 1 lamp during the warranty period. It will be here on Friday and after I change out the lamp I have to send them the broken one back. That wasn't a surprise since I remember seeing that in the manual day 1 when I got the TV.

I haven't been keeping up on the thread much since I've been WAY too busy enjoying my TV but I was wondering if anyone else has had this problem after such a long time and being one of the first to get this model after it's release. I've been good about not turning it on and off frequently. I remember reading that if you are going to not watch it for 20 min or so it's best to leave it on and that's what I've done. I just hate to think that with this great TV that I'm going to have to get a new bulb every 5 months or so. I'm hoping it was just a bad batch of lamps since I remember them being in a rush to get the 831s out before the XBR2s way back when. I bought an extended service warranty for 5 years and with 1 bulb but at this rate I'll be buying my own lamps before this TV is 2 years old. I'd just hate to look forward to that when everything about this TV is incredible. Having to shell out $300 every 5 months will be a huge black spot to me with Mits if that's the case.

Just hoping it was a fluke and my next lamp will last me well over 3000 hours. Look forward to reading people's reponses.

We own a WD-57732 and have had the same airflow problem. Mitz service replaced "all the fans" but no improvement. Mitz service is coming this Saturday and have told us there is a "new service bulletin" out on our problem and they promise this visit will fix it for good.
I have to say that Mitz has been very responsive (one of the reps called me apologize for the problem and to say they are doing their best to solve it) and they show up when they say the will. Great TV otherwise.
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post #457 of 549 Old 02-23-2007, 07:27 AM
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Hey everyone. Just a quick question , i keep getting a message on screen saying "please reset the remote using net command". I only get this message when i raise or lower the volume and it raises/lowers very quickly. As soon as i hit the volume button again the message clears. Im controlling the tv via: the time warner remote. Its not a big deal because the message clears but its definately not normal either. Any help?? (wd65831)
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post #458 of 549 Old 02-27-2007, 05:47 AM
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Tv Will Shut Down Airvents Blocked
I just got the message for the 4th time on my 65-831 and I cannot turn my tv on without the message coming up immediately.
There is now a constant yellow ready light displaying on the led.

The moment I turn the tv on I get the message that my air vents are blocked and the tv will shut down in seconds. The first time it happened I just shut the tv off and back on and that fixed the problem.
Oh how I miss the good old days, now I can't watch it.

Has anyone had this problem and what did Mits do to fix it?

Thank you
Ken
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post #459 of 549 Old 02-27-2007, 10:29 AM
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I have the very same issue with my Mits. 57 1080p. Sometimes I get the "Check if airflow is blocked. Will shut down in a few seconds" message as soon as I turn it on and other times after the set has been on for a while. Normally, if I shut it off and wait a few minutes I can turn it back on with no issues. Anyone else deal with this or have a fix? BTW - Air flow is not blocked nor even close to being blocked. My fan is not loud but I can hear that it is indeed running when I get close to it.
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post #460 of 549 Old 02-27-2007, 01:08 PM
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I've had my 57831 about two weeks and love it. The only issue I have is with the fan making excessive noise. I remember seeing this discussed earlier in the thread, but now I can't find it. Is there a solution to the fan noise issue or is this something we just have to decide if we can live with?

Update: I just spoke with Tweeter and the tech indicated they should be able to replace the fan. The problem is that a service call cannot be arranged until my 30 day return period has expired. Would I be better off just returning my current unit for another new one instead of risking the chance of the fan replacement not resolving the issue? Are others still having the fan noise issue with the 57831 units? Thanks.

Ron
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post #461 of 549 Old 02-27-2007, 04:06 PM
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I have a SA4250HD Cable Box connected via an HDMI cable, with audio set to "HDMI" on the cable box. I connected the Digital Output of the 57831 to my Sony A/V Receiver to the Coaxial input and all I get is PCM audio (2.1, not 5.1) on a channel that is broadcasting Dolby 5.1. Isn't the HDMI 1.0 suppose to pass Dolby Digital 5.1 through to the Coaxial output? A solution is to set the Cable Box output to Dolby Digital with coax connected directly to the A/V receiver. This setup gives me Dolby 5.1, HOWEVER, there is NO SOUND transmited through the HDMI cable any longer. I also tried to connect Right & Left audio from the Cable Box and connect to the HDMI audio input but still no audio from the TV. This is frustrating! I was trying to have an easy setup to mute the TV when there is a Dolby 5.1 program showing with ease. The only method that works has many steps and is a pain.
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post #462 of 549 Old 02-27-2007, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LatinLev View Post

I have the very same issue with my Mits. 57 1080p. Sometimes I get the "Check if airflow is blocked. Will shut down in a few seconds" message as soon as I turn it on and other times after the set has been on for a while. Normally, if I shut it off and wait a few minutes I can turn it back on with no issues. Anyone else deal with this or have a fix? BTW - Air flow is not blocked nor even close to being blocked. My fan is not loud but I can hear that it is indeed running when I get close to it.

Call for service now because that is how mine started, it's the calm before the storm. This problem seems to be hapening to many people.
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post #463 of 549 Old 02-27-2007, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctsracer View Post

I have a SA4250HD Cable Box connected via an HDMI cable, with audio set to "HDMI" on the cable box. I connected the Digital Output of the 57831 to my Sony A/V Receiver to the Coaxial input and all I get is PCM audio (2.1, not 5.1) on a channel that is broadcasting Dolby 5.1. Isn't the HDMI 1.0 suppose to pass Dolby Digital 5.1 through to the Coaxial output? A solution is to set the Cable Box output to Dolby Digital with coax connected directly to the A/V receiver. This setup gives me Dolby 5.1, HOWEVER, there is NO SOUND transmited through the HDMI cable any longer. I also tried to connect Right & Left audio from the Cable Box and connect to the HDMI audio input but still no audio from the TV. This is frustrating! I was trying to have an easy setup to mute the TV when there is a Dolby 5.1 program showing with ease. The only method that works has many steps and is a pain.

Unfortunately the TV only accepts digital PCM stereo thru the HDMI conns, refer to page 26 in Owners manual.

I know, I know, what's the purpose of having HDMI then. I don't know...

I don't have an STB, but all my sources audio connect directly to my A/V receiver and I use the Mits Netcommand to control everything. It's a little time consuming to setup, but once you do, it's really nice controlling everything thru the Mits remotes. I do have digital audio out on the Mits connected to my A/V receiver for Mits tuner selected programs and when I play back thru firewire (occasional audio dropouts with 5.1 unless using the Mits speakers) on the Mits.
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post #464 of 549 Old 02-27-2007, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LatinLev View Post

I have the very same issue with my Mits. 57 1080p. Sometimes I get the "Check if airflow is blocked. Will shut down in a few seconds" message as soon as I turn it on and other times after the set has been on for a while. Normally, if I shut it off and wait a few minutes I can turn it back on with no issues. Anyone else deal with this or have a fix? BTW - Air flow is not blocked nor even close to being blocked. My fan is not loud but I can hear that it is indeed running when I get close to it.

Check out this link on cnet for others having the same issue.
http://forums.cnet.com/5208-4_102-0....D=233474&messa
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post #465 of 549 Old 02-28-2007, 10:37 PM
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Ok...i've read a few reviews on the 831 model on the internet and it's gotten some high ratings from some websites. I really want to get the 57 inch model. Yet i've been reading lately on this forum and cnet's forum about problems with the air vent on the mitsubishis and it's making me have second thoughts. Are these problems really that widespread or should I just go for it and purchase the 57831 model? Also I had a friend tell me that DLPs aren't true 1080p televisions because of something called wobulation that if i want true hd 1080p I should look at Sony SXRDs....is there any truth to that?
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post #466 of 549 Old 03-01-2007, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVRookie View Post

Also I had a friend tell me that DLPs aren't true 1080p televisions because of something called wobulation that if i want true hd 1080p I should look at Sony SXRDs....is there any truth to that?

Someone holding the opinion that your friend is repeating wrote this:

Quote:


... it's better to have full matching resolution rather than "mimicking" the full resolution.

That's something that a "three chip solution" advocate (Sony or JVC) would be tempted to write. The resolution on the screen is not "mimicked". It's alternated at a very high rate of spead. Much faster than film where we're shown a still picture every 24th of a second and we think it's a "moving picture show" or "the movies".

These two links deal with wobulation more intelligently than I can.

Wobulation is, from a user perspective, a NON-ISSUE.

It's the speed.

The wobulated DMD 1080p chips have 960x1080 = 1,036,800 mirrors. Each mirror is responsible for controlling the content of two adjacent pixels on the screen. Each of those two pixels is supplied with it's own unique information depending on the image being displayed.

The mirrors on the DMD chip do their work so fast that your brain and vision do not detect any gaps in the presence of pixels on the screen. What is projected is true 1080p even though the 1,036,800 mirrors "wobble" between pixel A and pixel B.

Think very very fast.

TI has a DMD chip with 1920x1080 mirrors. So far it has only been used in high end front projectors. Optoma and others have introduced mid range (~$7k) front projectors using that chip. At this point a 1920x1080 mirror chip may be too expensive for the RPTV market.

All the wobulated 1080p RPTV sets are "native" 1080p because you perceive all 2,073,600 unique pixels as being projected onto the screen at the same moment. The fact that they arrive at slightly different times is not perceptible.

This link is to a post by collinp on other wobulation issues.

TI has increased flip rates and DLP processor throughput.
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post #467 of 549 Old 03-02-2007, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LatinLev View Post

I have the very same issue with my Mits. 57 1080p. Sometimes I get the "Check if airflow is blocked. Will shut down in a few seconds" message as soon as I turn it on and other times after the set has been on for a while. Normally, if I shut it off and wait a few minutes I can turn it back on with no issues. Anyone else deal with this or have a fix? BTW - Air flow is not blocked nor even close to being blocked. My fan is not loud but I can hear that it is indeed running when I get close to it.

The tech fixed my TV today. The problem was a loose connection to the Thermal Sensor. Yes it is semi wide spread but an easy fix. The said that Mits first thought the issue was the sensor, but after testing all the sent back sensors they figured out it was a loose connection to the sensor. The Tech seemed to think it was a permanent fix, I hope he is right. Any way the good news I am back in business. As info I have a 65831 purchased in Nov, not sure of the build date.
Ken
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post #468 of 549 Old 03-04-2007, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdaniel View Post

Tv Will Shut Down Airvents Blocked
I just got the message for the 4th time on my 65-831 and I cannot turn my tv on without the message coming up immediately.
There is now a constant yellow ready light displaying on the led.

The moment I turn the tv on I get the message that my air vents are blocked and the tv will shut down in seconds. The first time it happened I just shut the tv off and back on and that fixed the problem.
Oh how I miss the good old days, now I can't watch it.

Has anyone had this problem and what did Mits do to fix it?

Thank you
Ken

I just started getting this error message myself 2 days ago. I'm digging up all my warranty info and placing a call asap. My fan was also not blocked and was running. My set was made in Sept '06 & purchased in Dec. Are all of these from the same manufacturing time frame?
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post #469 of 549 Old 03-19-2007, 08:47 AM
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I bought my 65831 in Oct 20 and have the same "airflow block" for about a month as you guys. I havenot call the Mit service yet since I put a fan behind it and also move the tv out so it has 4 inches of space per manual.
Daniel, do you think I can fix the loose sensor myself since it's a pain to call service ?
I did clean my lamp (800 hrs) and it help a bit but it started the error again today.
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post #470 of 549 Old 03-19-2007, 12:27 PM
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Where can I buy the 57" 831? I've been looking hard at the TV after reading the excellent reviews, and with my XBR1 starting the "green blob" repair cycle I'm eager to upgrade. The thing is, I can't find the set anywhere! The Best Buy near me has the 731 series, with the 732 in the Magnolia section. I want the three component inputs offered by the 831, and don't think the premium price point on the 732 is worth it (maybe it is...though they don't have the 57" 732 at my store, assuming they make one).

I also don't have a Costco nearby, and I did see that they have the 831 there. Any help would be appreciated!

Also, with the PC-DVI, could I buy a VGA-DVI adapter and use the VGA cables from my Xbox 360 and get 1080p that way?

Thanks again!
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post #471 of 549 Old 03-20-2007, 02:15 PM
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bump

What about the WD-65732? Is it identical to the 831 series? Any help would be MUCH appreciated!
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post #472 of 549 Old 03-20-2007, 02:41 PM
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The only difference between the 732 and 831 is the 831 has the glossy black finish and the firewire port and a 180 watt bulb.

If the price difference is that much I say go with the 732.

I got the 831 and am very happy with it but that was when the thought was the 831 and 732 had a different screen and that justified the cost difference.

Also depends on the person as well. I like knowing I got the best offered since it was a purchase to carry me for a long time.

I'm now Neutral
-
Our Crimson Cinema
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post #473 of 549 Old 03-20-2007, 02:42 PM
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I just want to know where in southern Illinois I can find an 831...
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post #474 of 549 Old 03-21-2007, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnnytheSkin View Post

I just want to know where in southern Illinois I can find an 831...

Try the Mitsubishi TV website here, select a model and then put your zipcode in the find a retailer near you box at the upper right. The 831 series is only carried by Diamond retailers, so you won't find it at most big box stores.
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post #475 of 549 Old 03-28-2007, 08:45 AM
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Hi all,

I took delivery of my 65831 yesterday. This set replaces a older, broken Zenith HDTV. So far, I've had nothing but joy from this set. It's been a great initial customer experience.

But I'm looking for some advice regarding how to connect two computers to the set. One computer is a Mac Mini, which I use as a MythFrontend to a backend server. And the other is a Windows HTPC, which I'm phasing out, but still is useful for some functionality like DVD playback. I'm having trouble letting go of TheaterTek for Apple's DVD player ;-)

Currently I've connected the Mac Mini to the DVI port. This was one of those great "it just works" experiences. The Mini automatically selected 1080p. When I want to use the MythFrontend, I select the "Standard" mode via the Format button. This gives me a little overscan, which is desirable for hiding some of the screen edge noise that the backend records with some channels. When I'm using other Mac applications, I select "Reduced" mode, which pegs the desktop in its entirety within about an inch boarder from the edge of the screen.

As an aside, I'm considering using a utility like SwitchResX to manage resolutions on a per application basis. For Myth, I want 1080p. But for the desktop and browsing, it might be better to fall back to 720p. Otherwise some of the screen elements are just too tiny for our 13' viewing distance.

So now I want to connect the Windows PC to the set. I guess one way might be to get a DVI/USB KVM switch that has an IR remote. The advantage would be that I could stay with the DVI connection for both computers, plus share a wireless keyboard and mouse between them. I haven't looked into what such a switch box would cost, assuming that there is one. I'll search the forum and see what turns up.

But maybe as an alternative, I could get a DVI to HDMI converter and plug the PC into one of the free HDMI ports. But I don't have any experience with HDMI. I'm concerned that the HDMI input will always be overscanned and will not have the "Reduced" option that seems so useful with a computer connection to this set.

If anyone out there has some advice regarding the best way to proceed, I'd appreciate it.

Best,

Allen Cronce

"Things are bad. Children have stopped listening to their parents, and everyone is writing a book."
--Cicero
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post #476 of 549 Old 04-05-2007, 03:57 PM
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3522 hrs... same date of ownership...
I get that message all the time... gets worse but it is just a defective sensor... i'm waiting to blow a bulb before I apply for that horrendous service .
My set looks as bright and clear as the day I got it...
6-8 hrs of tv a day... 4 hrs of ps3 online racing, tennis war ect... 4 - 6 hrs of computer...
sleep 3-4 hrs a night
Great set ... **** for a company... keep telling everyone and they will change.
I send them copies of all the bad press they get up here.. the COMPANY is defective... not the TV
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post #477 of 549 Old 05-08-2007, 04:14 PM
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Is there any talk of these sets being prone to dust collection? We have one here at work and I recently picked up a Sammy LED DLP (currently on my second one and debating on if I want to roll the dice on a third one).
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post #478 of 549 Old 05-13-2007, 07:39 PM
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They did not have this set at my local Best Buy. Is this set that new? Where are you guys picking these up?
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post #479 of 549 Old 05-13-2007, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by 051473 View Post

They did not have this set at my local Best Buy. Is this set that new? Where are you guys picking these up?

The "831" models are only carried at higher end stores. They were introduced last Fall.

The "732" series is supposed to be almost identical for a lower price.
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post #480 of 549 Old 05-15-2007, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnytheSkin View Post

I just want to know where in southern Illinois I can find an 831...

were i work champaign illinois which is more like east central illinois.
Call good vibes in champaign and ask for Andy.
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