The Official Sony 2006 KDS-(XX)A2000 [NO PRICE TALK] SXRD Owner's Thread - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 14280 Old 07-23-2006, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by epete View Post

So you are using the DVD Player for upconversion. (I guess that was my real question). Does it look better or worse if the Player does not upconvert and the TV does the upconversion?

By the way, I consider that I would have to buy both technologies to get all of the content available and I consider that when I say "reasonably priced". I would have no problem paying $500 for an HD-DVD player if there were no alternative formats.

I am playing standard def DVDs on my HD-DVD player and the pic is amazing. I'm even playing my backup discs and it takes several seconds to notice that the picture is not HD. I burned a copy of LOTR EE on a DL disc and have a tough time telling the difference between it and the original.

I'll qualify this by saying that this is my first HD set and upconverting player. You might want to check the HD DVD forum and read about all the praises of HD DVD as an upconverter.
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post #362 of 14280 Old 07-23-2006, 09:28 AM
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Re this A2000 screen picture from post 231 by drmrw.

I'm seeing double when looking at the white-booted legs of the figure on the left. Quite a few XBR1's displayed convergence/chromatic aberration issues, often noticable when viewing white lettering such as in a news crawl moving across the screen and at other times.

In addition, looking closely at the white arrows in the lower left corner, I think I'm seeing green outlines around those arrows.

If you have trouble seeing this in the shrunken .jpg I attached, go back and hit the "Pictures" link in the original post and then hit the "component" .jpg link. Expand the resulting picture to its full res. and you can see more clearly.

Any thoughts about this? Possibly something to do with the signal source or feed, rather than the display? It just looks like an awfully familiar issue, although I know nothing's 100% perfect in the world of 3-chip tech.

It's very encouraging that there are no immediate reports of glaring color uniformity problems, but I would remind everyone that this was the case when the XBR1's began to be delivered. Bombthroat, who started the XBR1 owner's thread last fall reported a pristine set. Then more sets were delivered and the problems began to appear. I know this sounds like gloom and doom. I'd just like to get some test screens up and running and get some truly critical examinations and opinions on these sets to be sure Sony did their homework before I let the moths out of my wallet.

My thanks to all of you new owners for taking the time to report your findings here and good luck with your new sets.
LL
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post #363 of 14280 Old 07-23-2006, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Jason30 View Post

Interesting. So can Blu-Ray players even output 1080P/24fps if desired for a TV that supports it, or only 1080P/60?

The rumor is the Sony player will do both 1080 p/60 and 1080 p/24

Charlie don't surf
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post #364 of 14280 Old 07-23-2006, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by BuTal63 View Post

Re this A2000 screen picture from post 231.

I'm seeing double when looking at the white-booted legs of the figure on the left. Quite a few XBR1's displayed convergence/chromatic aberration issues, often noticable when viewing white lettering such as in a news crawl moving across the screen and at other times.

.

Thats due to deinterlacing. Its a blend from one image with its predecessor (aka weave).
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post #365 of 14280 Old 07-23-2006, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by maximum360 View Post

For the people interested in Belmont. There has been a further price reduction on the 60" A2000s (listed on the website).

If someone would still a dual tuner HD DVR into one of these microdisplays I would buy in a heartbeat.

I don't see the A2000 listed on belmonttv.com (if that's the site).
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post #366 of 14280 Old 07-23-2006, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by dmass View Post

You need to go to a B&M store measure out 8" and sit there for a while. Some people like being close to a big screen and other don't. Personally, when i start needing to move my eyes to see what is happening at the edge of the screen (like sitting near the front of the theater) i get unhappy. others don't. 8 " is not too close for a 60" in my opinion. another consideration is your seating arrangement. if you are saying you have a couch eigth feet away, do you have chairs or other seating on the side? and will they really be 4 or 5 feet away ...but then if you always get the center seat 8 feet away do you care

Good points. MY chair is 8 feet away. Others in the room are not so lucky. They could be seated anywhere from 8 feet to 2 feet away from the set. All things considered and looking towards the future, I think its better to get the 60" set. I'm going to try to get some local shops to match some of the online prices I've been seeing but I don't think I'm going to have much luck. If not, the internet is my friend!
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post #367 of 14280 Old 07-23-2006, 10:03 AM
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I saw that misterjensen mentioned about SD looking pretty reasonable, but I was curious what owners thought who have a cable-box hooked up and are lookining at standard definition channels? How does it look - are you happy with it? Any critical eye observations?
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post #368 of 14280 Old 07-23-2006, 10:06 AM
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I went to Belmont TV in Virginia yesterday to check out the 60" A2000.

Let me say this as plainly as I can... This set is "awesome"! With an HD-DVD player this is... LOL! Belmont TV had the 60" set up with the Toshiba HD-DVD A1 player. The picture was absolutely stunning. No green blobs, not motion blur, no nothing! Just pure, video nirvana. :-D

After I played with the settings for a few minutes and took the TV out of the Vivid mode, I dialed in a picture that was so good, a guy came in off of the street and purchased one on the spot! (Seriously, I did notice a U-Haul van in the parking lot when I left, so I think my tweaking actually didn't do "that" much for him. LOL! )

The picture on the set can be as good as it gets for now. HD-DVD looked fantastic. When the signal was switched to a DBS feed, everything snapped back to the "real world" and I stopped drooling and started to "evaluate" the set. My initial reaction was that I could honestly live with the set with "that" inferior TV signal. I looked for and did not see any Green Blobs. (YES!) I tried my best to look for any anomalies and artifacts, but nothing of the sort jumped out at me. (Yeah boy!) I tried my best to make sense of all of the nonsense that went on in the other thread about the DRC version of this set when nobody owned one. LOL! There were no "purple" blacks and no "greenish" whites. And I also looked for any forms of SSE that I could find. Not to say that it was nonexistent, but I sure didn't see it. (Wahoo!)

The 60" A2000 literally left me with the feeling of "Garbage In - Garbage Out". In my mind that's one of the highest compliments that I can give a TV set. It's features are that good. Feed this thing a pristine signal and you will probably never leave your living room for a while. Feed the set a bad signal, and you will want to beat up your cable guy on sight.

Needless to say that in my opinion, the picture quality on the 60" A2000 equals or slightly betters the XBR1 series. Now, I am not saying that owners of a good XBR1 set should run out and exchange their sets right now, but if you are a victim of the green blobs, you should strongly consider it.

Unfortunately for me, I am waiting for the 55" A2000, which Belmont says will be in their store in about two weeks. But if I were in the market for the 60 inch, I would have bought one on the spot. Just like the guy with the U-Haul did!

Peace!
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post #369 of 14280 Old 07-23-2006, 10:09 AM
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A question on the 4" space needed on each side that I've seen mentioned. Is this for an entertainment center that is a closed area? I've been waiting for this set because it will fit in my existing entertainment center but not if I need the 4" on each side!

I have the entertainement center that is open in the back. It is the kind that has the towers on each end with the expandable shelf in the center.
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post #370 of 14280 Old 07-23-2006, 10:21 AM
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For those who have ordered from sonystyle.com, do the delivery men carry the TV into your house for you? (this is of particular interest to me since i live on the third floor and am terribly weak.)

Also, for those who have ordered the Sony stand, does the stand come assembled? Any pictures of the TV on the stand?

I am looking to pick up the 50" next month, and am wondering what I should do about the stand.

Thanks in advance!!
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post #371 of 14280 Old 07-23-2006, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuTal63 View Post

Re this A2000 screen picture from post 231 by drmrw.

I'm seeing double when looking at the white-booted legs of the figure on the left. Quite a few XBR1's displayed convergence/chromatic aberration issues, often noticable when viewing white lettering such as in a news crawl moving across the screen and at other times.

In addition, looking closely at the white arrows in the lower left corner, I think I'm seeing green outlines around those arrows.

If you have trouble seeing this in the shrunken .jpg I attached, go back and hit the "Pictures" link in the original post and then hit the "component" .jpg link. Expand the resulting picture to its full res. and you can see more clearly.

Any thoughts about this? Possibly something to do with the signal source or feed, rather than the display? It just looks like an awfully familiar issue, although I know nothing's 100% perfect in the world of 3-chip tech.

It's very encouraging that there are no immediate reports of glaring color uniformity problems, but I would remind everyone that this was the case when the XBR1's began to be delivered. Bombthroat, who started the XBR1 owner's thread last fall reported a pristine set. Then more sets were delivered and the problems began to appear. I know this sounds like gloom and doom. I'd just like to get some test screens up and running and get some truly critical examinations and opinions on these sets to be sure Sony did their homework before I let the moths out of my wallet.

My thanks to all of you new owners for taking the time to report your findings here and good luck with your new sets.

The blurring was positively a photographic artifact because of the settings i had for the camera. Also don't even attempt to judge the color on the screen from the photo, I was just showing full screen, that's all. I thought the live game looked positively stunning and saw no problems at all, but that's just me.

Don't worry about buying the wrong technology....you don't buy technology, you RENT it!
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post #372 of 14280 Old 07-23-2006, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by skeeball View Post

... (There does exist a method of deinterlacing which line doubles the odd field and throws away the even field and it should be avoided like ebola.) ...

Does this produce the apparent reduced frame rate of some up-converted DVD content? For me, this problem makes fantastic visuals feel like cheap animation - I doubt I could get used to it. I'm ready to leap on the KDS60A200, except that I don't know what content might cause this problem, whether it's just an artifact of cheap DVD players, or if the KDS's processing avoids this.

I notice the reduced frame rate in a battle scene from LOTR: Return of the King that Best Buy seems to run incessantly. The scene is incredibly complex - sweeping camera movement, a dragon flying askew to the camera move that takes up 10% or so of the pixels, and perhaps 60-100 quite small individuals moving in still other directions. I imagine this collection of tiny details and constant motion would cause an MPEG compressor to explode like a guest on Jerry Springer.

The dragon battle in LOTR: Return of the King seems an excellent source for testing DVD issues.
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post #373 of 14280 Old 07-23-2006, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Robin Banks View Post

Needless to say that in my opinion, the picture quality on the 60" A2000 equals or slightly betters the XBR1 series. Now, I am not saying that owners of a good XBR1 set should run out and exchange their sets right now, but if you are a victim of the green blobs, you should strongly consider it.

Awesome! Did you get to compare it to the new Samsung HLS series by any chance? Some people have mentioned the new Sammys having a better PQ then last year XBR1's.
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post #374 of 14280 Old 07-23-2006, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by misterjensen View Post

Don't take my decision as a knock on Abt; Abt is GREAT and I've gone out of my way to let everybody know that here on the forum (AND I sent a personal letter to Abt yesterday thanking them for their quality service while pointing out how helpful my particular salesman is). Go ahead and REWARD Abt by buying from them; you won't be disappointed. I've already rewarded them by pointing numerous customers towards them (via PM; they wanted more info on the "deal"). I feel very fortunate that I have two stores in the area that have offered me great customer service. When all things are pretty much the same, I'll choose less $$$.

I second that on Abt - I went there yesterday to see the KDS60A2000. Sadly, they must have rolled it back into the warehouse (Or sold them all!). The salesman at the Sony Style sub-store was at least honest in implying they were starting to come in, but weren't being displayed until the old ones are gone. So I went to the Apple Sub-store (which had Abt-uniformed salespeople and Abt pricing stickers) and shopped until 7:10 - even though the store closed at 6:30 (as I learned later). I can't imagine what would have happened at Circuit City when they started closing up.

Abt has the nicest atmosphere of any Electronics Retailer selling stuff I can afford. It's amazing what a difference careful lighting makes, as well as both carpeting and acoustic tile. There's no assault to the senses like Best Buy or, worse, Circuit City. Plus, the massage chairs are lined up in front of the display of smaller flat-panel monitors, and there are at least 7 of 'em. That's customer service.

It seems the whole retail channel is desperate to clear the 2005's. I'm betting that, at current prices, showing the 2006KDS would virtually halt sales of the 2005XBR. Perhaps the best place to look is the busiest retailer you can find. I wonder if the 2005XBR loses to the 2006KDS in PQ when placed side-by-side? Or is it just the ears?
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post #375 of 14280 Old 07-23-2006, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Hoof View Post

Awesome! Did you get to compare it to the new Samsung HLS series by any chance? Some people have mentioned the new Sammys having a better PQ then last year XBR1's.

I second this question!

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post #376 of 14280 Old 07-23-2006, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by ericsatidiitedu View Post


The dragon battle in LOTR: Return of the King seems an excellent source for testing DVD issues.

The scene will test the MPEG compression and decompression. The compression will be the same same across all the discs (sameoriginal files) the decompression will change based on the playout device. people are getting hung up about 24FPS material, but we all need to realize that for the most part everything we have ever seen that was shot for film and shown on tv in this country has been converted to higher frame rates. Some of what people notice when they look closely has to do with the quality of the conversion. Today a lot of programming is being shot in HD, in HD at 24, 25, or 30 FPS. I think we need to rely on cleaner production in this mixed up world and less on sets in the home that will compensate for every acquisition method
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post #377 of 14280 Old 07-23-2006, 11:19 AM
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So i have a question. Will 360 games look worse on the KDS than on a regular 720P native tv?
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post #378 of 14280 Old 07-23-2006, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Hoof View Post

Awesome! Did you get to compare it to the new Samsung HLS series by any chance? Some people have mentioned the new Sammys having a better PQ then last year XBR1's.

The Samsungs do not come close to last years SXRB and will not to this years. DLP inherently IMHO is substandard when compared to LCOS and SXRD. I did as extensive a comparison as I could and found the SXRD punishes DLP. Whomever makes the set.

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post #379 of 14280 Old 07-23-2006, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by BuTal63 View Post

Re this A2000 screen picture from post 231 by drmrw.

I'm seeing double when looking at the white-booted legs of the figure on the left. Quite a few XBR1's displayed convergence/chromatic aberration issues, often noticable when viewing white lettering such as in a news crawl moving across the screen and at other times.


DOA4 has fake 'motion blur' on their characters using a shader trick. They basically smear multiple copies of the character across the screen using the Z-Buffer on the Xbox 360. This is what you are seeing.
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post #380 of 14280 Old 07-23-2006, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by psincubus View Post

For those who have ordered from sonystyle.com, do the delivery men carry the TV into your house for you? (this is of particular interest to me since i live on the third floor and am terribly weak.)

Also, for those who have ordered the Sony stand, does the stand come assembled? Any pictures of the TV on the stand?

I am looking to pick up the 50" next month, and am wondering what I should do about the stand.

Thanks in advance!!


For my std delivery, I was told and they did bring it into the house just across the "threshold", aka right inside some door to the house. In our case the front door. What surprised me when I got my neighbor to help me move it to the armoire we already had was really how light (~95 lbs) the set seemed carrying it for a set that size. So, we didn't have any trouble with two average build guys moving it. It is just a bit big (which is not bad ) and bulky to man handle it with one person although our carrier was one guy who brought it up.

cheers,
tim
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post #381 of 14280 Old 07-23-2006, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by stepscot2 View Post

DOA4 has fake 'motion blur' on their characters using a shader trick. They basically smear multiple copies of the character across the screen using the Z-Buffer on the Xbox 360. This is what you are seeing.

For real, that's what I was thinking too. There is a ton of motion blur in that game particularly when you get electricuted.
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post #382 of 14280 Old 07-23-2006, 11:35 AM
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Well, I just called my the guy I have a preorder with at a local Detroit-area store. The earlier price I was quoted was great, but that was before Sony dropped the retail from $3999.99 to $3699.99. PM me if you want the new price I was paying (I'll bet I've got one of the best prices on this board thus far). Note: This dealer doesn't ship across the country to my knowledge. He is for the Detroit area only. If you are outside of the metro Detroit area, I'm assuming any PM inquiry is just out of curiosity (maybe to bolster your own local negotiations). Please no questions on: "will he ship to here." I'm buying a reasonably price 5-year extended warranty (which may have influenced my lower price). I expect the a2000 SXRD to be in my possession by Friday (barring any unforeseen circumstances).

He told me ordering the official stand would take 4-6 weeks (ouch), so I instead ordered the stand directly from Sony online. Sony says the stand is on backorder, but the Sony guy I talked to expects that it should ship sometime this week. I believe that ordering the stand directly from SonyStyle.com is likely the fastest way for me to get one. Do you guys agree?

In a side note, I called a local SonyStyle store before calling SonyStyle.com to order the stand. The local SonyStyle store employees are clueless. The guy I talked to didn't even know what the a2000 series was, and when he looked up the model number all he could tell me was that "there aren't any displayed in any Sony stores yet".

This will be my first HDTV, and I am excited! I'm hoping this lives up to my lofty expectations. I own an Xbox 360, so that will be the first hi-def source I use to evaluate the TV.

My A2000 Settings for the S3 TiVo, PS3, Xbox 360, and Nintendo Wii.
My A2000 Lag Test & A2000 Lag Timing Estimations.
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post #383 of 14280 Old 07-23-2006, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuTal63 View Post

Re this A2000 screen picture from post 231 by drmrw.

Besides the "it's the way the game works" answers from various people, I'd like to add that you absolute positively cannot judge fine image quality details from a picture. There is no way to determine if the artifacts you are seeing are the result of the camera or the TV.

And when we're talking about point and shoot cameras, artifacts WILL be introduced by the camera's optics. Hell, I don't have a problem spotting them on pictures taken with various lenses on my D70...
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post #384 of 14280 Old 07-23-2006, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psincubus View Post

For those who have ordered from sonystyle.com, do the delivery men carry the TV into your house for you? (this is of particular interest to me since i live on the third floor and am terribly weak.)

Also, for those who have ordered the Sony stand, does the stand come assembled? Any pictures of the TV on the stand?

I am looking to pick up the 50" next month, and am wondering what I should do about the stand.

Thanks in advance!!

Ok, glad you asked this one. The delivery guy came alone. No help. He said that they are not a moving company. I bribed him to carry it up the stairs with me and put it on a temporary stand until I get my Sony stand. Sonystyel wants you to pay more for white glove treatment.
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post #385 of 14280 Old 07-23-2006, 11:53 AM
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LOL...so I just called CC to see if they have the A2000's in stock and he goes "um no but we did get the 32" Akai LCD " ---thats like asking if Carmen Electra is at the bunny ranch and they say "No but we have Kathy Bates !" lol
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post #386 of 14280 Old 07-23-2006, 12:11 PM
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[quote=AVBill]In a side note, I called a local SonyStyle store before calling SonyStyle.com to order the stand. The local SonyStyle store employees are clueless. The guy I talked to didn't even know what the a2000 series was, and when he looked up the model number all he could tell me was that "there aren't any displayed in any Sony stores yet".QUOTE]

I had the same experience. These people were clueless. At first, they told me they had one on display and when I asked if she was sure, she had to ask the manager and then she came back and said no. She also had to put me on hold to find out when they would be getting them in. Apparently, they do not take pride in what they sell.
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post #387 of 14280 Old 07-23-2006, 12:43 PM
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Has anyone commented on the glare for these relative to the XBRs or other models? I have a lot of windows which shine light directly on my TV (currently a Sony 36" Wega CRT) and the reflection is like a mirror.
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post #388 of 14280 Old 07-23-2006, 12:50 PM
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Would one of you lucky A 2000 owners measure the width of the base on the bottom of the set. Thanks Chas

CHAS ZOSS OPPO EAP 2nd ROUND late entry!
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post #389 of 14280 Old 07-23-2006, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cankster View Post

The Samsungs do not come close to last years SXRB and will not to this years. DLP inherently IMHO is substandard when compared to LCOS and SXRD. I did as extensive a comparison as I could and found the SXRD punishes DLP. Whomever makes the set.

Cankster

Just to add some balance to this answer - this year's Samsungs (HL-Ss) stack up very nicely to the 2005 SXRDs. I too did extensive research, side-by-side tests, etc., and aside from the fact that many of the Samsung floor models were set too bright - resulting in oversaturated colors and highlighting flaws in the source feeds in the form of mosquito noise - the image quality compared very favorably to the Sonys. Better in some cases, especially considering fully half of the SXRDs I saw were infected to one extent or another by the green blob syndrome - whether in the form of an actual yellow-green blob or an overall green tint to the entire screen.

Some have called it a draw between the sets. Some have preferred the Sammy; others the Sony. Personally, I find both to be amazing when viewing a good feed on a non-green-blobular set. And I do not think it fair to say that either set or technology "punishes" the other - unless, of course, you're in the minority of people who see rainbows in DLP sets.
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post #390 of 14280 Old 07-23-2006, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Kolgar View Post

Just to add some balance to this answer - this year's Samsungs (HL-Ss) stack up very nicely to the 2005 SXRDs. I too did extensive research, side-by-side tests, etc., and aside from the fact that many of the Samsung floor models were set too bright - resulting in oversaturated colors and highlighting flaws in the source feeds in the form of mosquito noise - the image quality compared very favorably to the Sonys. Better in some cases, especially considering fully half of the SXRDs I saw were infected to one extent or another by the green blob syndrome - whether in the form of an actual yellow-green blob or an overall green tint to the entire screen.

Some have called it a draw between the sets. Some have preferred the Sammy; others the Sony. Personally, I find both to be amazing when viewing a good feed on a non-green-blobular set. And I do not think it fair to say that either set or technology "punishes" the other - unless, of course, you're in the minority of people who see rainbows in DLP sets.

This may be true but all the DLP sets I viewed had so much "mosquito noise" that it was really hard to believe this is Samsungs best effort. It has been said with proper calibration that the Samsung DLP's compare to the SXRD, to this I can not reply as I have not seen a calibrated DLP. All I can say is that at BB and CC the Samsung's level of noise is an abomination. The SXRD's on the other hand, green blobs aside, looked smooth, organic, virtually noise free and awesome. As I have said before "some people prefer the Sammy" some people think 128bps mp3s sound as good as a cd. Some people think cd's sound better than good turntables. Some people think the Sammys look better then the SXRD's. Some people are clueless. IMHO

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