The Official Sony 2006 KDS-(XX)A2000 [NO PRICE TALK] SXRD Owner's Thread - Page 153 - AVS Forum
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post #4561 of 14278 Old 09-06-2006, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by 3series3 View Post

Then I guess I should mention that on the DVD player, which has an HDMI connection, but no digitial/optic connection, I get picture and sound from the TV, but I get no surround sound.

Which DVD player do you have? If it has HDMI, but neither type of digital (optical or coax) audio output that seems strange.
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post #4562 of 14278 Old 09-06-2006, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Which DVD player do you have? If it has HDMI, but neither type of digital (optical or coax) audio output that seems strange.

My dvd player is the Sony DVP-NS75H. It has an HDMI as well as a digital audio cable output. I just bought a cable for it and the guy at Tweeter said that I needed it if I wanted surround sound.
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post #4563 of 14278 Old 09-06-2006, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by 3series3 View Post

Hello (from a first-time poster, long-time lurker),

I just got my 55a2000 yesterday from Tweeter. It worked beautifully all day (with the exception being that I was only able to receive premium and HD channels on the comcast dvr hd box---see more details below) ! Words can't express how impressed I was with the picture. However, this morning, when I went to turn the system on I got sound but no picture (I have the digital/optic cable plugged in directly from the cablebox to the receiver). I have Comcast cable in the Philadelphia area.

I tried everything I could think of. I checked/replugged all of the HDMI cables. I verified that the DVD player works fine on video 7 and video 6. The picture should have come through on video 6 or video 7, but didn't. I really think this might be an issue with my cable box. I called the cable company yesterday and they are going to come out on Tuesday to check the system (I live in a large apartment building that supplies the basic cable---I pay separately for my premium channels). However, now I think the box might be defective. This could be partially my fault since I had the dvd player on top of the cable box all day yesterday and it might not have gotten proper ventilation (however, I do get sound). I am going to go to the comcast office tomorrow and ask for a new box.

My questions are this:

Do you guys think this is a tv issue or a cable box issue?
Is there anything else I should try?

One final, other random question:

Will placing a small (8 inch) harmon/kardon center channel speaker on top of the set damage the screen (I did a search, but couldn't find a definitive answer about its effect on the screen---only posts on the potential to damage the housing)?

Thanks!

This happens quite frequently with the Motorola DVRs, but you didn't specify what box you have. The fix for the DVRs is to play back a recorded show and then the video is fine. The way to stop it from happening is to not turn the box off (doesn't really turn it off anyway).
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post #4564 of 14278 Old 09-06-2006, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by StratMangler View Post

Yes, you're asking for too much. Here are the facts, sir...

- *ALL* TVs have overscan. Every single one regardless of brand name and model. The sooner you realize this, the better.

- Width & height scaling options are rarely if ever a feature TVs have. PC monitors on the other hand,...

- As somebody mentioned earlier, Sony tightened up the overscanning so instead of a 5-7% overscan, it's now down to 2-3%. Quite an improvement.

- Considering you fall in the bottom 1-2% of people who bought the TV mostly for web-browsing and PC gaming, I don't think this is something that required that much attention from Sony. Their goal is not to make potential web-browsers happy, or else they'd support connecting PCs to the TV. Call them up and ask them for help and they'll flat-out tell you you're on your own. Guaranteed. Why? Because they don't care about that microscopic niche market.

- Almost every market has its own share of somewhat misldeading specs. Hard drives, for instance, don't *actually* have the advertised space on them. Usually 3-5% of space is lost due to faulty clusters and the esoteric way space is calculated in reference to bytes and bits being of different values. Same thing with CPUs' megahertz/gigahertz rating. Again, same thing with CRT PC monitors. A 21" PC monitor will actually have 19.9" of viewing area, in most cases.

These are factors you haven't considered and in the end, with all due respect, you can kick & scream until you're blue in the face and bash your head into the wall a thousand times... it's not going to change anything. So you have 2 options ; wait until a TV magically appears with the scaling options you want or stick with the A2000 or any other model and accept the situation as is.

I can understand being disappointed, but last time I checked, there is no such thing as a perfect product. A certain feature might not work entirely as expected or meet your expectations. Happens all the time. It's life. Move on and accept the wonderful picture quality and you'll be all the more happy about it.

My 2 cents...


Well put! Worth more like $2,000.

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post #4565 of 14278 Old 09-06-2006, 09:33 AM
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How do I check lamp hours on A2000?

Thanks.
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post #4566 of 14278 Old 09-06-2006, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3series3 View Post

My dvd player is the Sony DVP-NS75H. It has an HDMI as well as a digital audio cable output. I just bought a cable for it and the guy at Tweeter said that I needed it if I wanted surround sound.

That's right.

But, I still don't understand what you wrote in your precious message.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3series3 View Post

Then I guess I should mention that on the DVD player, which has an HDMI connection, but no digitial/optic connection, I get picture and sound from the TV, but I get no surround sound.

Are you referring to two different DVD players?
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post #4567 of 14278 Old 09-06-2006, 09:43 AM
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Looking to purchase the 50" A2000, but should I make sure to get a certain build date? It's possible my build date will be July. Is that anything to worry about? Thanks.
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post #4568 of 14278 Old 09-06-2006, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by levansoft View Post

How do I check lamp hours on A2000?

Thanks.

Oddly enough I do not think this info is in the user menu. There are a few LAMP sections in the service menu where I remember seeing what looked like the lamp hours.
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post #4569 of 14278 Old 09-06-2006, 09:49 AM
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In thinking about the overscan, how could any RPTV display all the 1920x1080 for PC use while maintaining the 2-3% for TV use? Even if they designed the SXRD chips to display 2020x1150 and then adjusted the overscan so that 1920x1080 was the part that was visable, it would still have problems, wouldn't it. PC screens would be just right,but wouldn't you get trash or black bars around the edges on certian TV shows?

The LCD TV's are pretty interesting as they actually display the full 1920x1080, right? So is their overscan already factored into the electronics so that an actual 1816x1016 or so gets blown up to fill the 1920x1080 screen?

I'm kind of scratching my head on this one. It's not that big a deal to me, but if the XBR2's can display 1920x1080 from the VGA ports, then that does suck for the A2000 owners. Sony definetely should have fixed that for this set or maybe this feature is rolled up into the DRC model? I don't know.

Perhaps the key to PC usage on any TV will be in future video card drivers. It seems they cause the most problems. Maybe we should be knocking on ATI and Nvidias doors demanding better drivers.
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post #4570 of 14278 Old 09-06-2006, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by SAT99US View Post

Well I have finally received my new Sony 50A2000 and have just set it up in the new cabinet, and couldn't be happier.... The wife said it couldn't sit out on a stand, so I had to have a cabinet made to hold it. I also had to include side towers to hold some of her what-nots. I have been reading here for sometimes now and want to thank all of you that help guide me towards my purchase of the Sony, I could not be happier !!! Picture included..

That really is a beautiful wall unit! A little to big for my bedroom, but really nice

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post #4571 of 14278 Old 09-06-2006, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by bonse View Post

Looking to purchase the 50" A2000, but should I make sure to get a certain build date? It's possible my build date will be July. Is that anything to worry about? Thanks.

Not really, some of the early releases had the LPF for 1080 set to the wrong setting which made it a tiny bit soft. There is now a fix you can do by going into the Service Menu and change the setting.

Oh yea, SAT99US, that wall unit puts my home built one to shame. Jeez, how do those guys build stuff like that? Then again, I've only got $150 into mine.
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post #4572 of 14278 Old 09-06-2006, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by JasonWW View Post

I'm kind of scratching my head on this one. It's not that big a deal to me, but if the XBR2's can display 1920x1080 from the VGA ports, then that does suck for the A2000 owners. Sony definetely should have fixed that for this set or maybe this feature is rolled up into the DRC model? I don't know.

If you check the XBR2 (SXRD based) manual which is now available on Sony's site... yup, it states right there that 1920x1080 is acceptable via the VGA connector. A-holes.
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post #4573 of 14278 Old 09-06-2006, 10:01 AM
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Why the insult?
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post #4574 of 14278 Old 09-06-2006, 10:04 AM
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Why the insult?

Sorry... that was directed at Sony for needlessly crippling the A2000's. NOT meant for forum members.
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post #4575 of 14278 Old 09-06-2006, 10:06 AM
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They didn't "needlessly cripple" it. It's not a top of the line HDTV and it's priced accordingly. If you want all the bells & whistles, the XBR2 will be there. For the more "everyman," there's the A2000.

I'm imagining the VGA thing is lifted straight from the XBR1, which has the same behavior... why? That's the rub... Both A2000 and XBR1 are obviously capable of higher resolution than the PC input supports...Obviously the VGA port won't see much practical use since DVI-HDMI with the appropriate video card settings to correct for over/underscan make a much more effective solution.

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post #4576 of 14278 Old 09-06-2006, 10:11 AM
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Perhaps not "needlessly", but it is "intentional crippling" if the panel can do 1920x1080 over VGA. They can justify it if they want by saying "well then buy the XBR2", but that doesn't change the fact that they did in fact cripple the set just to get more money. Completely their right, but understandably frustrating. Either way, I still can't stand the SSE from the A2000 (or any RP set actually) so I'll likely be getting a Samsung LCD in the near future.

Also, I would hardly call a $3,300 TV the "everyman".
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post #4577 of 14278 Old 09-06-2006, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by tmeader View Post

Perhaps not "needlessly", but it is "intentional crippling" if the panel can do 1920x1080 over VGA. They can justify it if they want by saying "well then buy the XBR2", but that doesn't change the fact that they did in fact cripple the set just to get more money. Completely their right, but understandably frustrating.

Maybe they learned it from Intel who has a long history of putting out the same CPU with features turned off for a lower price.

Then there are the graphics card companies ...
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post #4578 of 14278 Old 09-06-2006, 10:20 AM
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Except it doesn't appear to be deliberate. Why does the XBR1 behave the same way? Besides which, there are HDMI ports available that can be used to circumvent the restrictions on the VGA port with a decent video card (which is needed for any resolutions that high) anyway...

I guess your mileage may vary, but LCD and Plasma or something with a glass screen mean a tradeoff of SSE with SDE and/or glare respectively. I'll take SSE! Especially since I can't see farther and 6 or 7 feet anyway.


$3300 now. Anyone buying early is paying for such. The nature of technology is that it gets cheaper. XBR1 prices went down about 35-40% in about a little over a year. I got mine at a big box store from 30% off the original MSRP as a price matched Super Bowl deal... 60A2000's will probably regularly sell in the $2,500 range this time 2007.

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post #4579 of 14278 Old 09-06-2006, 10:32 AM
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The XBR1 behaves that way because it's based on now two year old tech likely. The A2000 is in the comparable timeframe to the XBR2 (not the XBR1) that's what it should be compared to. They obviously had the ability to do 1920x1080 for the A2000s over VGA, but chose not to. I don't care how you slice it... it's crippling. Again, entirely their right to do that. And yes, the HDMIs are there, but the HDMIs all have overscan, vs the VGA ports which are 1 to 1. Also, VERY few laptops (what I'd be using with it) have DVI outputs (on the PC side anyway), and currently there are no VGA->HDMI cables that I know of, short of an external converter box.

No Samsung LCD I know of (nor any from other brands) have glass screens. That's why I'm going after LCD, because it provides no SSE, along with no glare. I sit 11-12' from my 60" and still easily see SSE all the time. Some of us are just unfortunate in that we can't "see past it" the way others seem to be able to.

Granted, prices will of course go down on the new SXRD sets. However, Sony's "everyman" line is the E2000 in reality. I don't think anyone can dispute that.
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post #4580 of 14278 Old 09-06-2006, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmeader View Post

Perhaps not "needlessly", but it is "intentional crippling" if the panel can do 1920x1080 over VGA. They can justify it if they want by saying "well then buy the XBR2", but that doesn't change the fact that they did in fact cripple the set just to get more money. Completely their right, but understandably frustrating. Either way, I still can't stand the SSE from the A2000 (or any RP set actually) so I'll likely be getting a Samsung LCD in the near future.

Also, I would hardly call a $3,300 TV the "everyman".

It's called "product differentiation". It's done all the time with all kinds of products (for example: take those dull gray bumpers that Detroit uses on their cheaper cars).

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post #4581 of 14278 Old 09-06-2006, 10:40 AM
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It's called "product differentiation". It's done all the time with all kinds of products (for example: take those dull gray bumpers that Detroit uses on their cheaper cars).

I realize that, and it's entirely within their right. I'm just trying to say that it was within their ability at the time to have the A2000s do 1920x1080, but it was a conscious decision on their part not to. It wasn't just because "that's how the XBR1 was". The XBR1 was likely that way because they COULDN'T in fact do it at the time of manufacture, and they can't very well change the specs on it once they had the ability later in the products life.
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post #4582 of 14278 Old 09-06-2006, 10:43 AM
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The people that are running DVI-HDMI are getting 1:1 pixel mapping, its just that the screen is optically overscanned. Sure the XBR2 will accept 1920x1080, but that screen will also most likely be optically overscanned and you'd still have to do a custom resolution.

The A2000 accepts 1920x1080 over HDMI, but you won't be able to see the start menu, etc.

Also, DVI outputs from computers look better than VGA, so given the option why would you want to run VGA to the TV? VGA is noticebaly less sharp on my LCD monitor than a DVI connection, and I assume it would be the same with a TV.

As I've said before this set looks great on my HTPC, so who cares if we lose 100 pixels of real estate? The picture is no less crisp and sharp since its still 1:1 pixel mapping. You're not losing any more image than you are on normal broadcast TV since its the same amount of overscan.
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post #4583 of 14278 Old 09-06-2006, 10:45 AM
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A2000 to buy. I fiddled with the remote a bit but was wondering, if I am receiving a non-HD feed, regular SD feed, can this tv stretch the picture to fit the tv or do I have to watch it as a 4:3 with bars on the left and right side of the tv, or can I do both?

Thanks, dearsmiths
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post #4584 of 14278 Old 09-06-2006, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

That's right.

But, I still don't understand what you wrote in your precious message.



Are you referring to two different DVD players?

Sorry for the miscommunication. I should say that it has a digital audio port, but had not yet been connected to anything.
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post #4585 of 14278 Old 09-06-2006, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dearsmiths View Post

A2000 to buy. I fiddled with the remote a bit but was wondering, if I am receiving a non-HD feed, regular SD feed, can this tv stretch the picture to fit the tv or do I have to watch it as a 4:3 with bars on the left and right side of the tv, or can I do both?

Thanks, dearsmiths

Both.

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post #4586 of 14278 Old 09-06-2006, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by BSTNFAN View Post

This happens quite frequently with the Motorola DVRs, but you didn't specify what box you have. The fix for the DVRs is to play back a recorded show and then the video is fine. The way to stop it from happening is to not turn the box off (doesn't really turn it off anyway).


I'm not exactly sure which box it is (I can check when I get home), but the comcast rep at the store said it was "the latest one that had HDMI inputs".

Can I still play back a recorded show even if nothing shows up on the screen? I am able to change the channels, but I don't know how I would play back a recorded show if I can't see the menus to navigate them. Is anyone aware of a sequence of buttons to press on the remote in order to play back a recorded show? (Maybe "My DVR" , down arrow, play"??)
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post #4587 of 14278 Old 09-06-2006, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by GhettoD View Post

Also, DVI outputs from computers look better than VGA, so given the option why would you want to run VGA to the TV? VGA is noticebaly less sharp on my LCD monitor than a DVI connection, and I assume it would be the same with a TV.

That's odd. With the Samsung LCDs I've been looking at, the 1920x1080 VGA signal is extremely crisp on the screen, certainly no worse than the 1920x1080 signal fed through HDMI on the same set. Sadly, the Samsungs still overscan via HDMI since they are expecting a TV based signal (hence expecting overscan to be necessary). The clarity though between the two looks no different. If you are really seeing a "noticeable" difference from your graphics card VGA out vs DVI, I would say that that's more of a case of a poor DAC on the card you're using than a true indictment of all VGA output. With a good DAC, VGA can EASILY drive a rock solid 1920x1080 image.
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post #4588 of 14278 Old 09-06-2006, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by tmeader View Post

Sorry... that was directed at Sony for needlessly crippling the A2000's. NOT meant for forum members.

Yea I knew you were going with that but can see how others may have taken it the wrong way. Kinda of funny actually.
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post #4589 of 14278 Old 09-06-2006, 11:01 AM
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It makes more sense the other way around, since using the VGA port, the signal is being decoded from digital to analog by the graphics card and then from analog back to digital by the TV.

The best analogy I can give is this ; say you take a CD, rip the audio to WAV files, encode them into MP3s, then decode them into WAV files afterwards and burn those new WAV files into a CD. Obviously, your newly-burned CD won't have the same quality as the original.

DVI, however, has a digital signal from beginning to end, so it makes more sense that the output would naturally inherently be sharper than using a VGA connection. However, in some rare cases, the conversion from digital to analog and back can sometimes be done with beautiful results (as mentioned by tmeader), but those products are very rare.
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post #4590 of 14278 Old 09-06-2006, 11:22 AM
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StratMangler, I agree that the DVI output will be superior. However, unless you have a really crappy VGA out, the difference between VGA and DVI should not be incredibly noticeable at a resolution of "only" 1920x1080. I say "only" because, for a PC, that is NOT a staggeringly high resolution. For a TV, yes... but a PC, no. I've been using 1280x1024 (roughly, emphasis on roughly, the 4:3 version of the same resolution) for well over 3 years via VGA every day, and it has always looked just as good as my DVI connected monitor of the same resolution at work. First I was using an ATI card, don't remember the exact model, and then in the past year+ a 6800GT.

As a side note, that's not really a correct comparison. A good DAC isn't really "compressing" the signal in the same way that an MP3 would be vs a straight WAV file. It's merely converting it. Big difference. I do get what you're trying to say though.
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