The Official Sony 2006 KDS-(XX)A2000 [NO PRICE TALK] SXRD Owner's Thread - Page 154 - AVS Forum
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post #4591 of 14280 Old 09-06-2006, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StratMangler View Post

It makes more sense the other way around, since using the VGA port, the signal is being decoded from digital to analog by the graphics card and then from analog back to digital by the TV.

The best analogy I can give is this ; say you take a CD, rip the audio to WAV files, encode them into MP3s, then decode them into WAV files afterwards and burn those new WAV files into a CD. Obviously, your newly-burned CD won't have the same quality as the original.

DVI, however, has a digital signal from beginning to end, so it makes more sense that the output would naturally inherently be sharper than using a VGA connection. However, in some rare cases, the conversion from digital to analog and back can sometimes be done with beautiful results (as mentioned by tmeader), but those products are very rare.

That's been my experience and what I've always seen on LCD displays. When DVI first started appearing, getting a computer monitor with a DVI input incurred a huge price premium, and now DVI is pretty standard. I've got an LG 19" LCD at home and a 17" Dell LCD at work, and I can see a difference in both of them running DVI as opposed to VGA. At work I had to request a card that had a DVI output because I didn't think text looked sharp enough with the built in VGA.
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post #4592 of 14280 Old 09-06-2006, 11:54 AM
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So you guys see the VGA inputing 1920x1080 as an upscale option that would be added to the XBR2 just like the extra HDMI input, DRC 2.5, etc...?
I don't think it should be. To me it's like the XBR2 being able to accept a 1080p signal and the lower model A2000 only a 1080i. That's a really big difference in my opinion and not some extra add-on.

I don't know why I'm upset about it as I'm probably never going to use the VGA input, but it's the principle to me.

Just as a side note, if we end up with say, 4 HDMI devices, is there a switch we can buy to use them all that is not super expensive?
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post #4593 of 14280 Old 09-06-2006, 12:00 PM
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I think your best bet would be to get a video card with DVI out and purchase the DVI to HDMI converter from Blue Jeans Cable (Forum Sponsor)...

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post #4594 of 14280 Old 09-06-2006, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmeader View Post

However, unless you have a really crappy VGA out, the difference between VGA and DVI should not be incredibly noticeable at a resolution of "only" 1920x1080. I say "only" because, for a PC, that is NOT a staggeringly high resolution.

It frankly doesn't really matter as in most cases, text will look blurry with a VGA connection due to the redundant digital/analog conversion that occurs.
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Originally Posted by tmeader View Post

As a side note, that's not really a correct comparison. A good DAC isn't really "compressing" the signal in the same way that an MP3 would be vs a straight WAV file. It's merely converting it. Big difference. I do get what you're trying to say though.

I didn't talk about a DAC at all. I was referring to ripping audio data in a PC, which would be converted to WAV, then compressing that data to MP3, then decompressing it to WAV after the fact, then burning a CD with those new files. I'm glad you understand the analogy regardless, but in all honesty it looks like you read a bit more into it than was necessary.
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post #4595 of 14280 Old 09-06-2006, 12:31 PM
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StratMangler, again, with a good VGA connection the text definitely shouldn't look blurry. I run 1280 x 1024 and via VGA the text is razor sharp. You can get right up against the screen if you want literally with your nose touching, and you can see that there is zero pixel bleed over with black text on a white background. The perception that VGA output is automatically crap compared to DVI is just wrong. If you have a horrible DAC on your card, then yes, the VGA will likewise be garbage. But with a decent card, fuzziness should not be an issue.

As for the second point, that's what I'm trying to tell you, is that compressing a WAV file 10:1 into an MP3 is NOT analogous to what a video card's DAC does to output the digital signal as VGA. In addition, when you rip an audio CD initially into WAV, there is no "conversion to WAV" going on, it's the pure data. That's why the WAV files take up 700MBs. I'm not trying to be mean about this, just pointing out that it isn't a proper analogy. I can't really think of one myself... but that's not it.
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post #4596 of 14280 Old 09-06-2006, 12:44 PM
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I use DVI-D --> HDMI and I have blur on the right side of the screen, starting maybe the length of my middle finger from the right side towards the left. I have been told it has to do with syncing and refresh rates, a friend uses his PC with an HDTV and has the same problem with a completely different TV. It is something to look into.
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post #4597 of 14280 Old 09-06-2006, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GhettoD View Post

To answer some of the HTPC questions:

1) Yes there is overscan, as others have stated ALL TVs have overscan. To get perfect 1:1 pixel mapping you have to create a custom resolution. Mine is 1816x1016

Is that true for flat-panel LCDs that support 1:1 mapping?
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post #4598 of 14280 Old 09-06-2006, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdryyz View Post

Is that true for flat-panel LCDs that support 1:1 mapping?

On some flat panels, over the HDMI port, yes. Others (like the upcoming Sharps and the Sony XBR2s) have a special 1:1 mode you can engage for HDMI. As far as I know, they are all 1:1 over their VGA ports.
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post #4599 of 14280 Old 09-06-2006, 12:57 PM
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Or in the case of some Sharps, they have a DVI connection for PCs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmeader View Post

On some flat panels, over the HDMI port, yes. Others (like the upcoming Sharps and the Sony XBR2s) have a special 1:1 mode you can engage for HDMI. As far as I know, they are all 1:1 over their VGA ports.

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post #4600 of 14280 Old 09-06-2006, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3series3 View Post

I'm not exactly sure which box it is (I can check when I get home), but the comcast rep at the store said it was "the latest one that had HDMI inputs".

Can I still play back a recorded show even if nothing shows up on the screen? I am able to change the channels, but I don't know how I would play back a recorded show if I can't see the menus to navigate them. Is anyone aware of a sequence of buttons to press on the remote in order to play back a recorded show? (Maybe "My DVR" , down arrow, play"??)

Actually, if the problem is what I think it is, when you go to the DVR menu it will come up just fine. Pick a recorded show and play it, the video will pop back up. I have a Comcast DVR and this happened a few times until I started leaving the box on 24/7. If you have HDMI from Comcast, it is prob a Motorola 3412 or 6412 pIII and there are numerous threads that will tell you all you need to know.
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post #4601 of 14280 Old 09-06-2006, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmccombs View Post

Do the new models have the green glob issue?

Thanks,
Darrell

Yes. It seems to take a minute or two for the lamp to "warm up." Until then, there is a green blob as you describe.

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post #4602 of 14280 Old 09-06-2006, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rnowicki View Post

New Owners,
Those of you that are computer savvy, please connect your computer to the TV via either the VGA or the HDMI and let us know about overscan/underscan issues. This may very well end up in it's own thread of course, but for those looking to use the TV in an HTPC environment, this is the starting point. And, since most if not all previous RPTV's required Herculean efforts to get them to work properly with a computer, maybe we will be in for a nice surprise

Robert

I have a pc with a DVI output. I could not get it to display on the a2000 thru the HDMI input. I tried both HDMI inputs.

It took a bit of effort to get it to display through the VGA input, but I finally got it to work, and it looks impressive, but it is only 768 and not the full 1080.

I tried connecting another pc to the vga input, and it did not want to cooperate. It has an older video card, but one that had a composite video out. I had to configure the display resolution using the composite out, then switch to the VGA. Trial and error, but I finally got the second set to display in 800 x 600.

The weird thing is when I try to set my pc to 1024 x 768. It displays the full image on my screen, but also displays another left half of the screen to the right of the full image.

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post #4603 of 14280 Old 09-06-2006, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonWW View Post

Just as a side note, if we end up with say, 4 HDMI devices, is there a switch we can buy to use them all that is not super expensive?

Gefen makes some good switches:
http://www.gefen.com/kvm/htswitchers.jsp

I know the HDTV reviewer on PCMag uses them and likes them a lot.

Best, Riyad

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post #4604 of 14280 Old 09-06-2006, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsk View Post

Gefen makes some good switches:
http://www.gefen.com/kvm/htswitchers.jsp

I know the HDTV reviewer on PCMag uses them and likes them a lot.

Wow, wasn't the price I was expecting. I'd rather leave a clean path to the HDMI inputs and use some velcro to secure the unused HDMI cables to the back of the set and switch them manually when needed. Cost - about $5 and the occasional exercise.
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post #4605 of 14280 Old 09-06-2006, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jizzatch View Post

Yes. It seems to take a minute or two for the lamp to "warm up." Until then, there is a green blob as you describe.

That is not the green blob issue. In that case the green does not go away. The color issue on warmup is different, and not a defect
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post #4606 of 14280 Old 09-06-2006, 01:42 PM
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Looks like the HTPC geeks hijacked this thread.......


And it was so much fun for the first 145 pages or so....


You haven't been there... and you haven't done it.
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post #4607 of 14280 Old 09-06-2006, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BSTNFAN View Post

Actually, if the problem is what I think it is, when you go to the DVR menu it will come up just fine. Pick a recorded show and play it, the video will pop back up. I have a Comcast DVR and this happened a few times until I started leaving the box on 24/7. If you have HDMI from Comcast, it is prob a Motorola 3412 or 6412 pIII and there are numerous threads that will tell you all you need to know.


Thanks, I'll give that a try. If that doesn't work I'll try unplugging/replugging the box or call the cable company and have them resend the signal.
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post #4608 of 14280 Old 09-06-2006, 03:15 PM
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the U.K 55'' version is getting:-

PAP (picture and picture)
1920x1080/60 on the PC Input port
and finally; the new improved Bravia PRO engine that also includes the V 2.5

it's about time we got something right here in the U.K
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post #4609 of 14280 Old 09-06-2006, 03:55 PM
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If you have been waiting for a B&M store to lower prices, this is the time. I saw that CC lowered its price $250 less than what I paid on the website and in the store for the KDS50A2000, so I went to the store and they refunded the difference under the 30 days price match policy - what a deal.

Justin

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post #4610 of 14280 Old 09-06-2006, 04:11 PM
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What is PAP? Is that like Twin View?

-- "No matter where you go, there you are."

SXRD/Denon/Polk/PS3/360/WiiU
Blu-ray bliss

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post #4611 of 14280 Old 09-06-2006, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonWW View Post

Just as a side note, if we end up with say, 4 HDMI devices, is there a switch we can buy to use them all that is not super expensive?

Check out this thread. It's long so you may want to start at the end and work backwards because there have been some revisions. I don't own a switch but there seem to be a lot of happy owners.

Review - Monoprice 5x1 HDMI switch (no sparkles @ 1080p 60Hz & 50ft HDMI cable)

Calibration Resources:

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post #4612 of 14280 Old 09-06-2006, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3series3 View Post

Thanks, I'll give that a try. If that doesn't work I'll try unplugging/replugging the box or call the cable company and have them resend the signal.


I just unplugged/replugged the cable box and it is fixed! Thanks for the help!
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post #4613 of 14280 Old 09-06-2006, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdryyz View Post

Is that true for flat-panel LCDs that support 1:1 mapping?

The 1080p LCD flat panels from Sony, Sharp, Samsung, even Westinghouse (who makes a relatively low cost one that is a monitor with no tuner in 37" 42" and 47" sizes) all display all 1920x1080 pixals on the viewable portion of the screen.

I believe the SXRD's are displaying 1920x1080 too, they just have the optics set so some of the image is past the edges of the mask that frames the viewable portion of the screen. If they didn't we'd probably all be squawking about the image not going exactly to the edge of the screen, or, being a little out of square...

With a flimsy plastic case, and, so much magnification, it would be pretty tricky to get the sets to exactly align the image the light engine is producing to the screen. They could put in a zoom lens and some adjustment to tilt, and twist the optics so perfectionists could tweek it in themselves, but, that would add cost and cause a lot more service calls from the rest of the customers. Or at least I think that's the case.
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post #4614 of 14280 Old 09-06-2006, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyv View Post

The 1080p LCD flat panels from Sony, Sharp, Samsung, even Westinghouse (who makes a relatively low cost one that is a monitor with no tuner in 37" 42" and 47" sizes) all display all 1920x1080 pixals on the viewable portion of the screen.

I believe the SXRD's are displaying 1920x1080 too, they just have the optics set so some of the image is past the edges of the mask that frames the viewable portion of the screen. If they didn't we'd probably all be squawking about the image not going exactly to the edge of the screen, or, being a little out of square...

With a flimsy plastic case, and, so much magnification, it would be pretty tricky to get the sets to exactly align the image the light engine is producing to the screen. They could put in a zoom lens and some adjustment to tilt, and twist the optics so perfectionists could tweek it in themselves, but, that would add cost and cause a lot more service calls from the rest of the customers. Or at least I think that's the case.

To say nothing about changes due to shipping vibration, effect of temperature changes (on cabinet structure), etc.

Sony does have (for service personnel) some mechanical adjustments for tilt and trapazoid - but no zoom lens.

Dave Hancock
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post #4615 of 14280 Old 09-06-2006, 06:56 PM
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Dave Hancock,
The analog vs digital connection discussion reminded me of the GWIV controversy regarding the Silicon Image 9993 HDMI receiver. At least two series , the XS and WE, had reports of analog output. Schematics on both proved YPbPr output. Does the A2000 exhibit the same behavior?
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post #4616 of 14280 Old 09-06-2006, 07:16 PM
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My PC has a VGA output which runs to my 15" flat panel monitor. If I want to connect a PC to the A2000 with an DVI to HDMI will I need a VGA to DVI adapter for my computer? Also I've never connected a PC to an HDTV before. Will it display like a regular monitor or will I need an extra video card for it to work?
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post #4617 of 14280 Old 09-06-2006, 08:27 PM
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guys, move it on over to the HTPC forum
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post #4618 of 14280 Old 09-06-2006, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmeader View Post

The XBR1 behaves that way because it's based on now two year old tech likely. The A2000 is in the comparable timeframe to the XBR2 (not the XBR1) that's what it should be compared to. They obviously had the ability to do 1920x1080 for the A2000s over VGA, but chose not to. I don't care how you slice it... it's crippling. Again, entirely their right to do that. And yes, the HDMIs are there, but the HDMIs all have overscan, vs the VGA ports which are 1 to 1. Also, VERY few laptops (what I'd be using with it) have DVI outputs (on the PC side anyway), and currently there are no VGA->HDMI cables that I know of, short of an external converter box.

No Samsung LCD I know of (nor any from other brands) have glass screens. That's why I'm going after LCD, because it provides no SSE, along with no glare. I sit 11-12' from my 60" and still easily see SSE all the time. Some of us are just unfortunate in that we can't "see past it" the way others seem to be able to.

Granted, prices will of course go down on the new SXRD sets. However, Sony's "everyman" line is the E2000 in reality. I don't think anyone can dispute that.

Have you considered the new Mitsubishi 831 series? It has a new screen that supposedly eliminates SSE and looks like a plasma and it also has a straight DVI all digital PC connection in which the manual states full 1920x1080.
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post #4619 of 14280 Old 09-06-2006, 10:51 PM
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New KDS55A2000 AEP for the EUROPE with DRCMF V2.5 pro :

CLICK HERE
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post #4620 of 14280 Old 09-06-2006, 11:08 PM
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New KDS55A2000 AEP for the EUROPE with DRCMF V2.5 pro :

CLICK HERE


wow- thats a ton of photos. I by no means want to wander off topic but what did you find to be best setting for the xbox 360? I plan on getting this set prior to thanksgiving and one of the main reason is for 1080p and to use my 360 in all its glory. thanks!
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