The Official Sony 2006 KDS-(XX)A2000 [NO PRICE TALK] SXRD Owner's Thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 14280 Old 07-21-2006, 06:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandonJF View Post

Purchased from SonyStyle.com. I never thought they would actually ship out on the advertised date (7/17), but they did. Someone in another thread had said they changed the expected ship date on the site... I haven't checked again, though. Not sure if they sold their initial allottment.

You're missing the point of the new thread; try reading the post again...
1. Post your answers in the other thread
2. Only post locations of in-store displays (where people can actually walk in and see the A2000's)
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post #92 of 14280 Old 07-21-2006, 06:17 AM
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I doubt any of the store actually have these on the floor yet, though i do remember someone saying it would be on display at a CC near them on 7/19.

But i can't find that post now.

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post #93 of 14280 Old 07-21-2006, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by dlm10541 View Post

Actually I am adding the A2000 to my VP30 w/ABT102. Will be inputting everything at 1080P

My set shipped from ABT yesterday and is scheduled for delivery on Tues.


dlm

my plan also, but i have to wait for 55 inch set.......that makes me less concerned about drc-gate issues....scalers/etc will keep getting better and upgrading a vp30 seems easier than upgrading an hdtv

congrats and let us know how the combo performs for you
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post #94 of 14280 Old 07-21-2006, 06:38 AM
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Quote:


You're missing the point of the new thread; try reading the post again...
1. Post your answers in the other thread
2. Only post locations of in-store displays (where people can actually walk in and see the A2000's)

Reading WHAT post again? The one I responded to?

Sorry you got offended that I didn't use your new thread that has absolutely nothing to do with the question I answered. Last time I checked, SonyStyle.com was not an in-store viewing location.
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post #95 of 14280 Old 07-21-2006, 06:40 AM
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lets all get along, it was a mis-understanding.

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post #96 of 14280 Old 07-21-2006, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post

I don't see how the SD could get worse? I owned the SXRD 60" and SD was it's weak point - the TV was HD HT Heaven but SD was much worse than my Sharp. I like the SXRD as a HT but my experience with the panel was SD really sucked so I wonder if it's sucks going backwards as I cannot imagine it looking worse.

Hopefully Sony knows what they were doing taking it back to DRC V1.

Westa, you have consistently "knocked" the SXRD's SD performance. I've commented on that before; but will do so again.

Of course SD looks better on your Sharp. It also looks better on my small flat panel LCD Samsung. But, even the most expensive outboard video processor can't take a SD signal and make it look as good on any 60" screen as it will look on a "decent" small screen.

The SXRD is capable of good SD processing if fed a reasonably good signal. It won't look great if fed a "crappy" analog cable signal; but what should we expect. Feed it 480i out of a good DVD player; and you see what it is capable of doing.

As I've previously said, my current ISF'ed 60" SXRD provides as good or better picture from D*'s SD channels as my previous ISF'ed Mitsubishi 55" CRT RPTV did when supported by a Lumagen processor for upconverting 480i to 1080i. Both of the sets were tweaked by professionals to to ensure optimal SD viewing. If I wasn't satisfied with the SXRD's upconversion, I would have continued to use the Lumagen. I know you did not have your set long and maybe you just didn't have it properly set up for SD.

Opinions obviously vary; but I've read almost all of the posts on this and other threads regarding the SXRD, and most people are pleased with the SXRD's handling of SD. I agree with most of your posts; but on this subject I can't agree that "SD is it's weak point". Unless of course that is relative to HD vice relative to other sets.
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post #97 of 14280 Old 07-21-2006, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlb View Post

...snip...

As I've previously said, my current ISF'ed 60" SXRD provides as good or better picture from D*'s SD channels as my previous ISF'ed Mitsubishi 55" CRT RPTV did when supported by a Lumagen processor for upconverting 480i to 1080i. Both of the sets were tweaked by professionals to to ensure optimal SD viewing. If I wasn't satisfied with the SXRD's upconversion, I would have continued to use the Lumagen. I know you did not have your set long and maybe you just didn't have it properly set up for SD.

Have you tried the Lumagen on the SXRD? Might be interesting to see the difference.

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post #98 of 14280 Old 07-21-2006, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVBill View Post

THE MAIN QUESTION on many people's minds about the a2000 series: namely... does it properly deinterlace 1080i.

Have I missed results, or has no one tried it yet? As well, the have we heard any answers yet to the whole DRC issue (Well, maybe it's not an issue, but I can't spell debaucle. See, I told you I couldn't spell it. :-))

I'm sitting here, wondering whether to flip the switch on ordering yet, or wait for XBR2. I don't mind waiting.
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post #99 of 14280 Old 07-21-2006, 07:43 AM
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FYI - Crutchfield now shows the 60 in stock. I really want the 55, why do we have to wait... argh
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post #100 of 14280 Old 07-21-2006, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fade23 View Post

That's encouraging, as the Mitsubishi sets were known to be some some of the worst offenders in the bob test.

So you are saying you think his old Mitsubishi CRT was bob deinterlacing?

I followed along with the entire old thread and the DRC-MF version dramas. Have you guys priced good external scaler/deinterlacers? Quality VPs only became affordable in the last 6-8 months. And when I say affordable, I mean .5x - 1x the cost of the A2000. And a year or two ago pixel-based motion adaptive cost what? Probably 5k+?

Gary did a good job of educating buyers on what they should be looking for. I think the way he presented his results as pass/fail caused people to freak out unnecessarily, but given the magazine format constraints and time it would have taken to do a detailed chart, it is understandable. Did any of you read the second article? Were you able to pick out the differences in the photos without staring at the area highlighted in the box? Could you do it on a moving picture from 8 feet away?

I'm not saying you shouldn't look for a quality deinterlacer in your new (moderately) expensive TV. But some people in the old thread wanted to get together a class action lawsuit. People that probably couldn't tell bobbing from blending if you put a gun to their head. Which you shouldn't, because violence won't get your content deinterlaced properly.

So what is my long and rambling point? Sony has been taking care of it's customers... well, ok it's XBR customers... even when it wasn't cheap to do it. And this isn't an XBR set. But it accepts it's native resolution so if you don't like the deinterlacing it does... well then you can do something about it.


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post #101 of 14280 Old 07-21-2006, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drmrw View Post

Question....Regarding SD pictures, I am getting a Direct TV HD DVR and it has component output as well as HDMI. I was planning on using the A2000's ability to save separate settings with each input and optimize one input for SD signals and the other (HDMI) for HD. I imagine you can get a decent SD image by easing up on the sharpness and changing some other variables. Is that what folks tend to do? It sounds like the easiest way to optimize things....

While that's a good idea, unfortunately the HD-Tivos (which is currently the only D* HD DVR available) will not allow you to output via component while the HDMI output is hooked up. So for normal TV viewing you'd actually have to unhook the HDMI cable from the HD-Tivo each time you wanted to watch SD material. I think the composite/S-Video outputs will activate when you select "Record to VCR" so you might be able to watch everything SD via that mechanic, but you couldn't watch live TV via that method. May be an option if you absolutely hate the compromised SD settings, but frankly I didn't feel the '05 SXRD's SD viewing was that bad.

Now if you're referring to the "coming some day" MPEG4 D* HD DVR, then you might have a shot depending on its design...

I'd suggest just optimizing the D* HDMI input for HD & live with slightly worse SD on those few shows you'll still want to watch in 480i after experiencing HD, but YMMV depending on your viewing habits.

Enjoy...

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post #102 of 14280 Old 07-21-2006, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandonJF View Post

Reading WHAT post again? The one I responded to?

Sorry you got offended that I didn't use your new thread that has absolutely nothing to do with the question I answered. Last time I checked, SonyStyle.com was not an in-store viewing location.

Whoa! I'm sorry if you took it weird, but I'm not offended. I thought you were responding to the previous post.
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post #103 of 14280 Old 07-21-2006, 08:13 AM - Thread Starter
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I didn't get much chance to test things further this morning before I had to leave for work.

Two questions before I dive in more fully this evening/this weekend:

1) What is the best way to do this de-interlace test that everybody is so interested in? I tried the above poster's suggestion of running the Xbox 360 at 720p and 1080i and noting any differences in PQ, but I didn't really see anything significant. I have the Toshiba HD-DVD player and a Denon DVD-5910 DVD (haven't sent it out for the 1080p output mod yet), but I can't hook it up to a computer - so whatever is the best test given this scenario, let me know.

Step by step instructions would be nice. I want to make this test as objective as possible to give you guys solid feedback. I guess it is of less concern to me because I will be using this TV primarily for SD-DVD, HD-DVD and BD home theater and all of my components will eventually have 1080p output.

2) How should I initialize some of these settings before running the DVE calibration DVD?:

- Advanced Iris
- Picture Mode (if I should go custom, then what about all the parameters assoc. w/this?)
- Color temp (somebody wrote above to set to "Cool"?)
- Noise Reduction
etc.

And, should I do things differently with respect to the inputs for my SD-DVD and my HD-DVD player? I seem to remember reading here about a homemade HD-DVD test disc that you can make but I can't remember.

-----------

BTW, I have observed absolutely NO green blob or green haze effects at anytime so far.
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post #104 of 14280 Old 07-21-2006, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaMavs View Post

While that's a good idea, unfortunately the HD-Tivos (which is currently the only D* HD DVR available) will not allow you to output via component while the HDMI output is hooked up. So for normal TV viewing you'd actually have to unhook the HDMI cable from the HD-Tivo each time you wanted to watch SD material. I think the composite/S-Video outputs will activate when you select "Record to VCR" so you might be able to watch everything SD via that mechanic, but you couldn't watch live TV via that method. May be an option if you absolutely hate the compromised SD settings, but frankly I didn't feel the '05 SXRD's SD viewing was that bad.

Now if you're referring to the "coming some day" MPEG4 D* HD DVR, then you might have a shot depending on its design...

I'd suggest just optimizing the D* HDMI input for HD & live with slightly worse SD on those few shows you'll still want to watch in 480i after experiencing HD, but YMMV depending on your viewing habits.

Enjoy...

Wow, thanks DaMavs! You clearly read the owners manual too....Yeah I just realized that the S video only activates when doing save to tape (at least that's what it says). If the difference I can create with custom settings is DRAMATIC then maybe its worth the time to yank the hdmi cable out of the back of the player, but I doubt that the difference will end up being that great. At least I can upgrade to the new DVR in the fall that will be MPEG4 compatible.....If i didn't try to keep up with technology i'd having nothing to do! Thanks again for your reply.

Don't worry about buying the wrong technology....you don't buy technology, you RENT it!
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post #105 of 14280 Old 07-21-2006, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post

Why would anyone choose to view 480i on a native 1080P panel via x360? Your replicating a false event as a result as only a moron would set 360 at 480i the worst possible resolution and defeats the purpose of owning a x360. Troubleshooting to replicate events you want real life conditions that produce an event - choosing 480i on true HD gaming console and panel is producing a false lag issue even if it occurs. The only purpose I could see is in checking the abilities of a DVDO VP20/30 with a ADT102 Deinterlace Card (if anyone has added one to their set for another $2K) as I can't imagine anyone setting X360 to 480i.

Westa6969,

I suspect fade23's request is more related to testing the lag at 480i for older gaming systems. You are correct that only a moron with an HDTV would actually play the 360 at 480i for any extended period of time. However, knowing how the set lags at 480i is a valid test for older video game systems (GameCube, PS2, etc.). The Xbox 360 suffices for testing out lag at 480i, even if that is not the resolution anyone would actually play it at. That's what's nice about the 360 for testing purposes. It can output at 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i. I have asked others to run similar tests in the past.

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post #106 of 14280 Old 07-21-2006, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misterjensen View Post

Mr. Foo,
When you have a chance (I realize that probably won't be today with the new toy in the house), would you please measure the distance from the bottom of the base to the bottom of where the actual screen starts? Thanks, and congratulations!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tfgacek View Post

8.25 inches sir. Forgive me if someone else already replied.

Did you measure this on your own A2000, or did you calculate it based of pictures? I'm only asking because it looks like it would be smaller than 8.25 inches. Thanks for your help!
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post #107 of 14280 Old 07-21-2006, 08:18 AM - Thread Starter
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I didn't measure it after seeing tfgacek's post.

I can double check for you when I get home if this is not resolved by then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by misterjensen View Post

Did you measure this on your own A2000, or did you calculate it based of pictures? I'm only asking because it looks like it would be smaller than 8.25 inches. Thanks for your help!

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post #108 of 14280 Old 07-21-2006, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Foo View Post

1) What is the best way to do this de-interlace test that everybody is so interested in? I tried the above poster's suggestion of running the Xbox 360 at 720p and 1080i and noting any differences in PQ, but I didn't really see anything significant. I have the Toshiba HD-DVD player and a Denon DVD-5910 DVD (haven't sent it out for the 1080p output mod yet), but I can't hook it up to a computer - so whatever is the best test given this scenario, let me know.

Thank you for your test Mr. Foo.

Can anyone else help Mr. Foo out here (i.e. walk him through a 1080i test with the equipment he has)? It sounds like my 360 suggestion test was inconclusive. Are there any nice test patterns on any HD-DVD discs he could use?

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post #109 of 14280 Old 07-21-2006, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Foo View Post

BTW, I have observed absolutely NO green blob or green haze effects at anytime so far.

Thanks Mr. Foo, that's a very good sign. Hopefully this weekend you'll have a few minutes to actually enjoy your new set in between all that testing.
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post #110 of 14280 Old 07-21-2006, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by AVBill View Post

Westa6969,

I suspect fade23's request is more related to testing the lag at 480i for older gaming systems. You are correct that only a moron with an HDTV would actually play the 360 at 480i for any extended period of time. However, knowing how the set lags at 480i is a valid test for older video game systems (GameCube, PS2, etc.). The Xbox 360 suffices for testing out lag at 480i, even if that is not the resolution anyone would actually play it at. That's what's nice about the 360 for testing purposes. It can output at 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i. I have asked others to run similar tests in the past.

Exactly. I wasn't sure if he had a PS2 to test with or not, so I was presenting an option to use what we know he did have in order to test for gaming lag with 480i sources.

I'm glad you responded before I did AVBill, cause mine would have been a lot less nice.
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post #111 of 14280 Old 07-21-2006, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by skeeball View Post

So you are saying you think his old Mitsubishi CRT was bob deinterlacing?

Heh. No, I wrote that before I realized what sort of set he had. Still, if the A2000 looks better than a native 1080i unit, that leads one to believe that it ISN'T throwing away resolution.
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post #112 of 14280 Old 07-21-2006, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ISO Perfect HDTV View Post

before we transform this 2006 SXRD owner's thread into another green blob thread, I would like to ask the owners if they are able to tell if there is any noticable PQ improvement to the 2005 XBR1 or they feel it's the same or worst.

Let's first figure out if these A2000 are a step forward or backward in terms of PQ compared to the 2005 models.........
as far as any potential problems (including the dreaded green blob) I'm sure they will come out in the next few weeks as they ALWAYS do in these forums

Valid question, but how many people do you think are actually replacing their 2005 SXRD with a A2000?


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post #113 of 14280 Old 07-21-2006, 08:39 AM
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Whoa! I'm sorry if you took it weird, but I'm not offended. I thought you were responding to the previous post.

Sorry! Yeah, I did probably take it wrong. Must've been too sensitive this morning...
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post #114 of 14280 Old 07-21-2006, 08:42 AM
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Did you measure this on your own A2000, or did you calculate it based of pictures? I'm only asking because it looks like it would be smaller than 8.25 inches. Thanks for your help!

I also got 8.25" from base to the bottom of the actual screen.
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post #115 of 14280 Old 07-21-2006, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVBill View Post

Thank you for your test Mr. Foo.

Can anyone else help Mr. Foo out here (i.e. walk him through a 1080i test with the equipment he has)? It sounds like my 360 suggestion test was inconclusive. Are there any nice test patterns on any HD-DVD discs he could use?

I've sent him an HD DVD iso with the relevent test patterns. I layed out a step by step procedure here; that's geared towards using a PC to output, but all the steps are the same once you have a test pattern outputting at 1080i fron an HD DVD unit.
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post #116 of 14280 Old 07-21-2006, 08:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks to fade23, I will try the de-interlace test tonight with the Toshiba HD-DVD player and report back.

As for 480i gaming/lag, I will gladly try out the 360 at that resolution for you guys. Is there a good game to use for the test? While I haven't played them all yet, I do have pretty much the entire 360 game library except for MLB 2K6, which someone said earlier was a good test game. I tried Table Tennis at the higher resolutions with game mode off and didn't notice any lags but I am not sure if the ping pong ball was traveling fast enough for it to pose a noticeable problem.
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post #117 of 14280 Old 07-21-2006, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Foo View Post

Thanks to fade23, I will try the de-interlace test tonight with the Toshiba HD-DVD player and report back.

As for 480i gaming/lag, I will gladly try out the 360 at that resolution for you guys. Is there a good game to use for the test? While I haven't played them all yet, I do have pretty much the entire 360 game library except for MLB 2K6, which someone said earlier was a good test game. I tried Table Tennis at the higher resolutions with game mode off and didn't notice any lags but I am not sure if the ping pong ball was traveling fast enough for it to pose a noticeable problem.

Rhythm games like DDR or its variants are ideal, but I'm not sure if there are any of those out on the 360
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post #118 of 14280 Old 07-21-2006, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Foo View Post

Thanks to fade23, I will try the de-interlace test tonight with the Toshiba HD-DVD player and report back.

As for 480i gaming/lag, I will gladly try out the 360 at that resolution for you guys. Is there a good game to use for the test? While I haven't played them all yet, I do have pretty much the entire 360 game library except for MLB 2K6, which someone said earlier was a good test game. I tried Table Tennis at the higher resolutions with game mode off and didn't notice any lags but I am not sure if the ping pong ball was traveling fast enough for it to pose a noticeable problem.

Good test games=
- Geometry wars (fast furious fun)
- Fighting games (as long as you are well-versed in the game - try to do reversals).
- Sniping games and game modes (try going for zoomed in head shots with the Jackel in a Perfect Dark Zero match with a number of bots that are running around).
- The lock picking in Oblivion might be good if you know the trick of how to do it (the locking mechanism rises slower and the there is a high-pitched "plink" at the moment the mechanism reaches the top).
- Dancing Games (none for the 360 yet).
- MBL 2K6 (the swing I think)

As with anything, the way to notice the lag is to be able to do an A/B comparison. If it is something with narrow timings you remember being able to do in game previously, but you are having trouble doing it on the a2000, then lag is the likely culprit. I can't comment too much on sports games, but I think table tennis is a bit too slow.

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post #119 of 14280 Old 07-21-2006, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fade23 View Post

I've sent him an HD DVD iso with the relevent test patterns. I layed out a step by step procedure here; that's geared towards using a PC to output, but all the steps are the same once you have a test pattern outputting at 1080i fron an HD DVD unit.

Awesome! Thanks fade23!

Mr Foo, the 1080i test is (IMO) still the top priority. We already have some data in another thread the suggests the a2000 should be adequate in the game lag arena (since the XBR1 seems to be OK), but we welcome any opinions you have on the matter.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=684899&page=1

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post #120 of 14280 Old 07-21-2006, 09:31 AM
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Goggled A2000 found. FotoConnection has a Sony KDS-55A2000 55" SXRD Rear Projection Television. Availability: In Stock. Is this possible?
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