The Official Sony 2006 KDS-(XX)A2000 [NO PRICE TALK] SXRD Owner's Thread - Page 51 - AVS Forum
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post #1501 of 14280 Old 07-30-2006, 08:37 AM
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So basically if we want 3:2 Reverse pulldown for 1080i content (and our HD-DVD players), we need to get an XBR1, or wait for the XBR2s and be subjected to the dumbo ears? Damn, I hate when there always have to be tradeoffs.....
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post #1502 of 14280 Old 07-30-2006, 08:44 AM
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Up here in Canada if you have a sony card (mastercard) with MBNA you get double the sony points which would give you 900,000 points towards the purchase of the new 60A2000 SXRD online at sonystyle.ca.

My question is how much can I save if using all of the 900,000 sony points at checkout? Does anyone know how much is 900,000 sony points is worth?

thx!
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post #1503 of 14280 Old 07-30-2006, 08:45 AM
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Without some real world testing other than subjective opinions on brightness, contrast, grayscale and color its too premature to draw any conclusions. Upon rereading the above, I'm wondering now if the theoretical difference in 1080i deinterlacing capabilities may be between 1080i video vs. film?

Rick
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post #1504 of 14280 Old 07-30-2006, 09:18 AM
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I thought we had already covered the subject of proper deinterlacing of 1080i content when Mr. Foo ran the vertical resolution test way back in post #260.

Mr. Foo maybe you would like to chime in on this? Anyone else with an HDDVD player with complaints?

Hopefully CNET will post their official review soon as they usually test 1080i deinterlacing.

We already know from the Home Theater Mag article about deinterlacing (http://www.hometheatermag.com/hookmeup/0506halfrez/) showed that the DRC version 1 in the Sony 50A10 and 40A10 properly deinterlaces to 720p without bobbing so I'm not going to worry about it in the A2000 either.
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post #1505 of 14280 Old 07-30-2006, 09:34 AM
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De-interlacing is not the same as reverse 3:2 pulldown. Reverse 3:2 pulldown, which applies solely to 24FPS sources (ie - film) is what is at issue here.

Potentially, this could be bad news for 1080i programs that are shot using film instead of video (ie - the CSI's and most other hour-long dramas that are broadcast on TV. Sitcoms are for the most part shot on video though, so they wouldn't make a difference.)

The other part where this might come into play is if someone is feeding in a 1080i upconverted image from a DVD player (though often just feeding in a 720P signal, and letting the TV simply upscale is recommended anyway), or, as mentioned, the 1080i signal from an HD-DVD player.
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post #1506 of 14280 Old 07-30-2006, 09:44 AM
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I received my KDS-60A2000 yesterday and I absolutely love the picutre. I have my HD DVD player hooked up via HDMI and the picture is stunning in my opinion. My HD cable and HD satellite feeds are also beautiful. SD content is much better than my older rear projection Toshiba from 2002. SD content was not a factor for me however as 80% of what I watch is HD material but it's nice to have tolerable SD content. All in all, I am very satisfied with my purchase.
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post #1507 of 14280 Old 07-30-2006, 09:44 AM
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Thanks for clearing that up for me tmeader.

How can we find out officially (other than statements from someone at Sony) that the A2000 will not perform reverse 3:2 pulldown?

Payton has the first vote for stunning HDDVD picture on an A2000. Good to hear.
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post #1508 of 14280 Old 07-30-2006, 10:00 AM
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I am by no means an expert on home theater but as many have mentioned in this forum, I am very pleased with the picture. I would love to hear from other owners on their opinions of the picture quality, especially HD DVD content.
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post #1509 of 14280 Old 07-30-2006, 10:01 AM
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dont worry about GENTLY tilting the tv, just dont bang it up against a wall or any hard knocks etc.
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post #1510 of 14280 Old 07-30-2006, 10:16 AM
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Can any owner comment on gaming experience with A2000?

My understanding is, XBR1 had some delay/lag.
Has this been improved in A2000?
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post #1511 of 14280 Old 07-30-2006, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MOrlando View Post

So basically if we want 3:2 Reverse pulldown for 1080i content (and our HD-DVD players), we need to get an XBR1, or wait for the XBR2s and be subjected to the dumbo ears?

According to Sony's statement, yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MOrlando View Post

Damn, I hate when there always have to be tradeoffs.....

I think we can all sympathize.

Chase

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post #1512 of 14280 Old 07-30-2006, 10:33 AM
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All:

Thanks for your comments on my "tilt" concern. I actually found the dealer by looking up a local ISF Certified dealer based on comments in this forum.

This dealer stated they dropped SONY from their line of products a year ago due to their service policy of sending in a service person for repair upon installation of a out of the box failure rather than replacing it as their other brands do (Mitsubishi and Fujitsu). Not that I care, if SONY can send someone in to fix the unit, thats great.

Anyway, they told me that some manufacturers have a device in the set that will indicate if the unit was tilted that will void the warantee.

Anyway, I still believe these sets are the best value and best picture on the market today (based on whatt I have seen on the XBR1 line and what I have read here). I am still planning to get an A2000, but may consider the 55 or 50 depending on ease of getting it downstairs. Yes, I will remove the banister.
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post #1513 of 14280 Old 07-30-2006, 10:35 AM
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Well we did it. We got the 60A2000 yesterday at Tweeter's. They brought it out so we could see it and HD looked awesome right out of the box. SD did not look so great but we think we can do better at home (hopefully...or it may go back and wait for the XBR2). My husband plans to run SD via s-video and HD via HDMI. Sound will go directly to our Pioneer receiver. We are on Dish and have the VIP 622.

We ended up paying about 400.00 more than buying it on line but that really is just about the tax and now we have a 60 day trial period and we are dealing with local people. In fact, we have become friends with the salesman that has been putting up with us since the beginning of June.

Tweeter's has a person that callibrates their sets....charge is 100.00. Has anyone had any experience with having their set callibrated by Tweeter's?

Delivery is set for Tuesday. Will try to post pictures.
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post #1514 of 14280 Old 07-30-2006, 10:38 AM
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Reasons to get an XBR2:

1. Wega HD Engine (instead of the Wega Engine.)
2. DRC v2.5 (although no one is sure what difference this actually makes)
3. PiP/PandP
4. CableCard (better PQ than an STB)
5. You like the side speakers

I believe that it's the Wega HD Engine that does 3:2 PDR for 1080i24 source signals, and not DRC v2.5.

For me, reasons 1, 4 and 5 apply.

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post #1515 of 14280 Old 07-30-2006, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naxos41 View Post

Can any owner comment on gaming experience with A2000?

My understanding is, XBR1 had some delay/lag.
Has this been improved in A2000?


I am also interested in the answer to this question as I am a Halo2 fanatic and any lag at all is terrible for that game.

I hadn't heard there was lag on the XBR1. Any insight, owners?
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post #1516 of 14280 Old 07-30-2006, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RTK View Post

I have not seen the A2000 yet however if it can't do 3:2 PDR for 1080i, how is it displaying a good 1080p image?

As tmeader said, 2:3 PDR is only necessary to de-interlace film-sourced 1080i correctly. The A2000 de-interlaces video-sourced 1080i correctly, according to Mr. Foo's test.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RTK View Post

Could someone with an A2000 and an HD DVD player compare the differences in the picture between a 1080i vs. 1080p output from the DVD player?

Unfortunately, no, because the current HD DVD players will not output 1080p. Incidentally, neither will the current Blu-ray player (at least not in a way that is useful for comparing de-interlacers).

Quote:
Originally Posted by RTK View Post

Does a DRC menu option that is "grayed out" mean that it is not available or that it is always on?

Not available.

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post #1517 of 14280 Old 07-30-2006, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgt12 View Post

I am also interested in the answer to this question as I am a Halo2 fanatic and any lag at all is terrible for that game.

I hadn't heard there was lag on the XBR1. Any insight, owners?

Don't know about game lag but lip synch issues on XBR1 can be corrected by using Direct Mode (which A2000 does not have).
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post #1518 of 14280 Old 07-30-2006, 11:10 AM
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I can not tell the difference between inputting 1080i and 1080P from my DVDO VP-30 at 9 foot viewing distance.

Unless you are using a magnifying glass at 6 inches from the screen I doubt most would see a difference.

I agree HD-DVD is stunning
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post #1519 of 14280 Old 07-30-2006, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlm10541 View Post

I can not tell the difference between inputting 1080i and 1080P from my DVDO VP-30 at 9 foot viewing distance.

Unless you are using a magnifying glass at 6 inches from the screen I doubt most would see a difference.

I agree HD-DVD is stunning

You shoudnt be able to tell the difference from a resolution perspective. Any difference would likely be from a motion perspective.
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post #1520 of 14280 Old 07-30-2006, 11:17 AM
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We became 60A2000 owners yesterday (delivery within 24 hours of purchase from the Burlington, ON Sony Store). What a TV!

- OTA HD is awesome !! Watched CFL football game in HD on CBC OTA. See pix links below.
- OTA SD is better than I ever would have expected. Never thought 480i could be so watchable at 60"
- Satellite SD varies depending on how compressed the original signal is (the WSBK feed, for example, is horrible on ExpressVu - main Canadian networks are better).
- DVD 480p blew us away - we watched the movie 'Ultraviolet' and were not ready for the clarity - there is no way we expected 480p to look so good on a 60". It was like our own little movie theatre. The vivid colours on this movie were unreal. My wife & I are both literally "shocked" at the good quality and can't wait to watch more movies.

Notes:
- Switched "Vivid" mode to "Standard" as suggested by delivery guys. Looked good without any further adjustments except for colour (too saturated - lowered from 50 to 44). Will let TV sit in this mode until I can get a feel for what else to tweek. Pretty good settings for out-of-the-box. Good blacks, bright whites.
- Viewing angles are the best I've ever seen on a projection TV
- Blacks are black - no tinting noticed
- Whites are white - no tinting noticed - no tinting on grey screen shown during channel setup
- Wife did notice a greenish-yellow blob on startup this morning that lasted all but "4 seconds" then disappeared (was on the left centre of the screen). Manual says this is normal. I am not the least bit concerned about this
- No colour uniformity or convergence issues
- Lots of flexibility with screen size - if you see a 16:9 aspect pix on a SD channel, you can temporarily zoom in on it to fill up the entire screen as though it was an HD channel, rather than have black bar on all 4 sides
- DT tuner has same sensitivity as Sony HDD250. You can do an initial scan on setup..then can do another scan later if you want where it will only add digital stations that weren't already scanned (without it repeating a cable or OTA scan)
- NTSC tuner does not blue box or mute - good when watching weaker signals
- NTSC Banner box will give name of current program + ratings (if sent out by the station) - but no station ID
- DT Banner box gives full details
- No future TV Guide - just what is on now

Here are some hi-rez pix that are too large to upload to this forum (about 1.5MB each)..

Can be viewed at dxinfocentre.com/1.jpg 2.jpg 3.jpg 4.jpg 5.jpg

We are **********EXTREMELY ********** pleased with this television.
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post #1521 of 14280 Old 07-30-2006, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cxgy View Post

We became 60A2000 owners yesterday (delivery within 24 hours of purchase from the Burlington, ON Sony Store). What a TV!

- OTA HD is awesome !! Watched CFL football game in HD on CBC OTA. See pix links below.
- OTA SD is better than I ever would have expected. Never thought 480i could be so watchable at 60"
- Satellite SD varies depending on how compressed the original signal is (the WSBK feed, for example, is horrible on ExpressVu - main Canadian networks are better).
- DVD 480p blew us away - we watched the movie 'Ultraviolet' and were not ready for the clarity - there is no way we expected 480p to look so good on a 60". It was like our own little movie theatre. The vivid colours on this movie were unreal. My wife & I are both literally "shocked" at the good quality and can't wait to watch more movies.

Notes:
- Switched "Vivid" mode to "Standard" as suggested by delivery guys. Looked good without any further adjustments except for colour (too saturated - lowered from 50 to 44). Will let TV sit in this mode until I can get a feel for what else to tweek. Pretty good settings for out-of-the-box. Good blacks, bright whites.
- Viewing angles are the best I've ever seen on a projection TV
- Blacks are black - no tinting noticed
- Whites are white - no tinting noticed - no tinting on grey screen shown during channel setup
- Wife did notice a greenish-yellow blob on startup this morning that lasted all but "4 seconds" then disappeared (was on the left centre of the screen). Manual says this is normal. I am not the least bit concerned about this
- No colour uniformity or convergence issues
- Lots of flexibility with screen size - if you see a 16:9 aspect pix on a SD channel, you can temporarily zoom in on it to fill up the entire screen as though it was an HD channel, rather than have black bar on all 4 sides
- DT tuner has same sensitivity as Sony HDD250. You can do an initial scan on setup..then can do another scan later if you want where it will only add digital stations that weren't already scanned (without it repeating a cable or OTA scan)
- NTSC tuner does not blue box or mute - good when watching weaker signals
- NTSC Banner box will give name of current program + ratings (if sent out by the station) - but no station ID
- DT Banner box gives full details
- No future TV Guide - just what is on now

Here are some hi-rez pix that are too large to upload to this forum (about 1.5MB each)..

Can be viewed at dxinfocentre.com/1.jpg 2.jpg 3.jpg 4.jpg 5.jpg

We are **********EXTREMELY ********** pleased with this television.

Glad to see a happy owner. By the way--looking at that pic of your living room..does anyone sit on the left on that couch? Which would be about 6-7 feet away I am guessing. Curious if they could deal with the 60 at that distance...
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post #1522 of 14280 Old 07-30-2006, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by home_theatre_man View Post

As tmeader said, 2:3 PDR is only necessary to de-interlace film-sourced 1080i correctly. The A2000 de-interlaces video-sourced 1080i correctly, according to Mr. Foo's test.

How do we know the 1080i we get is film-sourced or video-sourced?

Wilson
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post #1523 of 14280 Old 07-30-2006, 11:37 AM
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Another noob question from me.

In the past, I have just watched HD through my Comcast DVR. How (and why) would I hook up OTA? What do I need? Antenna, Tuner? What input does this go through?

Thanks.
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post #1524 of 14280 Old 07-30-2006, 11:44 AM
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You should get a better picture due to the compression sat and cable companies use. You could go with either an outside or inside HDTV compatible antenna. The coax cable from the antenna goes to the "vhf/uhf" input on the back of the set.
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post #1525 of 14280 Old 07-30-2006, 11:50 AM
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It arrived about 1:00pm.

I really like the HD source material, I have not tried the DVD on it yet.

I have comcast and life in Chicagoland. I have to say that i'm not very exacted about the SD. I'm sitting about 11' away and letters seem almost blurry. I don't if I got the setting right and will try working with it more before I really get bummed out .

Does anyone who lives in the west suburbs know where I can but a calibration disk? I've only checked BB and CC.

Thanks, more later.

"just another Joe"
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post #1526 of 14280 Old 07-30-2006, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgt12 View Post

Another noob question from me.

In the past, I have just watched HD through my Comcast DVR. How (and why) would I hook up OTA? What do I need? Antenna, Tuner? What input does this go through?

Thanks.

OTA is HD in its full glory with no compression. Cable & satellite usually have some compression to make more channels fit into less space (how else can you get 500 channels?).

A2000 comes with analogue/digital OTA & cable tuners built in. There are 2 separate coax connectors in the back - 1 for OTA, 1 for Cable. The ANT button on the remote switches between the two. The Cable input will decode unencrypted QAM digital. There is no cablecard slot for encrypted digital Cable.

If you hook up an antenna to the VHF/UHF coax input, you're in business for free OTA HD. Rabbit ears might suffice in some areas- but a rooftop antenna would be better for most. Here in Canada, it almost seems that OTA HD is kept a big secret so that everyone pays to get HD thru Cable or Satellite. Meanwhile, it has the best possible quality for the best price ($0).
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post #1527 of 14280 Old 07-30-2006, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph15 View Post

Does anyone who lives in the west suburbs know where I can but a calibration disk? I've only checked BB and CC.


I had to order my DVE from amazon.com. I could not find anyone locally that carried it either.
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post #1528 of 14280 Old 07-30-2006, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by americasteam View Post

You should get a better picture due to the compression sat and cable companies use. You could go with either an outside or inside HDTV compatible antenna. The coax cable from the antenna goes to the "vhf/uhf" input on the back of the set.

Just to clarify..there is no such thing as an "HDTV-compatible" antenna. A coat-hanger is an "HDTV-compatible" antenna. That's marketing hype to get people to buy more expensive antennas. The same antenna that's good for analogue TV is also good for digital (since they both use the same VHF/UHF radio waves). There are some great good 'ole fashioned log periodic antennas, and some pretty crappy "HDTV" antennas.

Having said that, if all you could get before was snowy analogue signals, don't expect the digital to necessarily come in as they are either in & perfect or not there at all (although there is a small zone right at the cutoff point where signals will break up & pilexize).
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post #1529 of 14280 Old 07-30-2006, 12:11 PM
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I had to order my DVE from amazon.com. I could not find anyone locally that carried it either.

Barnes and Noble. I bought one from the Geneva store.
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post #1530 of 14280 Old 07-30-2006, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by home_theatre_man View Post

As tmeader said, 2:3 PDR is only necessary to de-interlace film-sourced 1080i correctly. The A2000 de-interlaces video-sourced 1080i correctly, according to Mr. Foo's test.

Unfortunately, no, because the current HD DVD players will not output 1080p. Incidentally, neither will the current Blu-ray player (at least not in a way that is useful for comparing de-interlacers).

Chase


How do you recommend testing 3-2 pulldown reversal with the A2000? Wouldn't an HD-DVD constitute 1080i film material?

You are correct, I forgot that the first generation HD-DVD players are limited to 1080i output. Would it be possible for a "1080p" upconverting DVD player to be used as a test for comparing 3-2 pulldown reversal between 1080i vs. 1080p or would this not be valid because the original source is only 480?

Rick
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