The Official Sony 2006 KDS-(XX)A2000 [NO PRICE TALK] SXRD Owner's Thread - Page 52 - AVS Forum
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post #1531 of 14278 Old 07-30-2006, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by epete View Post

Anyway, they told me that some manufacturers have a device in the set that will indicate if the unit was tilted that will void the warantee.


totally bogus...device or not... no way it can determine whether the set was tilited in the back of the show room by sales rep who doesnt give a damn or by the consumer when they take it down stairs... dont buy from those lying morons
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post #1532 of 14278 Old 07-30-2006, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cxgy View Post

We became 60A2000 owners yesterday (delivery within 24 hours of purchase from the Burlington, ON Sony Store). What a TV!

- OTA HD is awesome !! Watched CFL football game in HD on CBC OTA. See pix links below.
- OTA SD is better than I ever would have expected. Never thought 480i could be so watchable at 60"
- Satellite SD varies depending on how compressed the original signal is (the WSBK feed, for example, is horrible on ExpressVu - main Canadian networks are better).
- DVD 480p blew us away - we watched the movie 'Ultraviolet' and were not ready for the clarity - there is no way we expected 480p to look so good on a 60". It was like our own little movie theatre. The vivid colours on this movie were unreal. My wife & I are both literally "shocked" at the good quality and can't wait to watch more movies.

Notes:
- Switched "Vivid" mode to "Standard" as suggested by delivery guys. Looked good without any further adjustments except for colour (too saturated - lowered from 50 to 44). Will let TV sit in this mode until I can get a feel for what else to tweek. Pretty good settings for out-of-the-box. Good blacks, bright whites.
- Viewing angles are the best I've ever seen on a projection TV
- Blacks are black - no tinting noticed
- Whites are white - no tinting noticed - no tinting on grey screen shown during channel setup
- Wife did notice a greenish-yellow blob on startup this morning that lasted all but "4 seconds" then disappeared (was on the left centre of the screen). Manual says this is normal. I am not the least bit concerned about this
- No colour uniformity or convergence issues
- Lots of flexibility with screen size - if you see a 16:9 aspect pix on a SD channel, you can temporarily zoom in on it to fill up the entire screen as though it was an HD channel, rather than have black bar on all 4 sides
- DT tuner has same sensitivity as Sony HDD250. You can do an initial scan on setup..then can do another scan later if you want where it will only add digital stations that weren't already scanned (without it repeating a cable or OTA scan)
- NTSC tuner does not blue box or mute - good when watching weaker signals
- NTSC Banner box will give name of current program + ratings (if sent out by the station) - but no station ID
- DT Banner box gives full details
- No future TV Guide - just what is on now

Here are some hi-rez pix that are too large to upload to this forum (about 1.5MB each)..

Can be viewed at dxinfocentre.com/1.jpg 2.jpg 3.jpg 4.jpg 5.jpg

We are **********EXTREMELY ********** pleased with this television.

where do you find the pic. i can't
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post #1533 of 14278 Old 07-30-2006, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by cmaxwell View Post

where do you find the pic. i can't

never mind i found it. nice.
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post #1534 of 14278 Old 07-30-2006, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naxos41 View Post

Can any owner comment on gaming experience with A2000?

My understanding is, XBR1 had some delay/lag.
Has this been improved in A2000?


Can anyone else comment on this? How would the XBR1 have lag with its super fast pixel response time of 2.5ms? It also has a game mode as does the A2000.
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post #1535 of 14278 Old 07-30-2006, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mishmosh View Post

Thanks Agzela for the settings and the comments. I would not have known where to start.

BTW, how much does it typically cost to get a set ISF calibrated? Also, how do I go about finding an ISF tech to perform this?

I would look to www.isfforum.com. These people are usually more active and usually informed of the ISF trained.
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post #1536 of 14278 Old 07-30-2006, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RTK View Post

How do you recommend testing 3-2 pulldown reversal with the A2000? Wouldn't an HD-DVD constitute 1080i film material?

You are correct, I forgot that the first generation HD-DVD players are limited to 1080i output. Would it be possible for a "1080p" upconverting DVD player to be used as a test for comparing 3-2 pulldown reversal between 1080i vs. 1080p or would this not be valid because the original source is only 480?

Any 1080i movie (e.g., HBO) will be 1080i film source.
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post #1537 of 14278 Old 07-30-2006, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlb View Post

Any 1080i movie (e.g., HBO) will be 1080i film source.


I understand HBO HD is 1080i film source. So the question really is how does the A2000 handle 1080i film material properly if as Chase says:

Quote:
Originally Posted by home_theatre_man View Post

I confirmed with Sony this evening that the A2000s will not do 3:2 PDR for 1080i.

Are current people viewing 1080i content not seeing errors? Most people who have reported viewing 1080i film and video source are not conveying incorrect cadence or dropped frames so how is the A2000 handing 1080i film material if it can't do 3:2 PDR?

I'm not challenging the reports that the display looks great or what was conveyed by "Sony tech" but the two don't seem to add up.

Rick
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post #1538 of 14278 Old 07-30-2006, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RTK View Post

Most people who have reported viewing 1080i film and video source are not conveying incorrect cadence or dropped frames so how is the A2000 handing 1080i film material if it can't do 3:2 PDR?

That is the question of the day, IMO. Unfortunately, I do not have access to any A2000s at the moment to test them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RTK View Post

I'm not challenging the reports that the display looks great or what was conveyed by "Sony tech" but the two don't seem to add up.

I would encourage anyone who has questions to contact Sony support. They were relatively easy to get on the phone. Note that you will likely have to go beyond the first tier of support to find a technician who already knows what 2:3 PDR is. I, myself, would like to hear additional Sony technicians confirm that the A2000s do not perform 2:3 PDR for 1080i.

Chase

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post #1539 of 14278 Old 07-30-2006, 02:19 PM
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Without mentioning any details, it looks like F*** (rhymes with Lies) has the lowest price so far. Way less than even the online places.
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post #1540 of 14278 Old 07-30-2006, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by home_theatre_man View Post

That is the question of the day, IMO. Unfortunately, I do not have access to any A2000s at the moment to test them.

Thanks Chase. I'd love to see someone do a thorough test of the A2000's 1080i deinterlacing capabilities, hopefully the review from CNET next week will reveal some answers. Do you have any plans to observe or personally test an A2000?

My local CC setup an 60A2000 within the last couple of days, I'm off to see it for myself

Rick
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post #1541 of 14278 Old 07-30-2006, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RTK View Post

I understand HBO HD is 1080i film source.

This is were I'm lost.

Does HBO broadcast upconverted 480i films from DVD, or do they de-interlace 1080p@24fps film stock?
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post #1542 of 14278 Old 07-30-2006, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

This is were I'm lost.

Does HBO broadcast upconverted 480i films from DVD, or do they de-interlace 1080p@24fps film stock?

Is converting 1080p@24fps to 1080i, de-interlacing or interlacing ?

You may be correct about the source material although I'm sure it varies. Somewhere I think I recall Glimmie posting the answer to this question in one of the HD forums.

Rick
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post #1543 of 14278 Old 07-30-2006, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RTK View Post

Do you have any plans to observe or personally test an A2000?

I have seen them in action, but not with material I knew to have 2:3 pulldown. At this time I do not have plans to test one; however, a friend of mine (an ISF technician) is scheduled to calibrate one. It is possible that I could impose on him run some tests. If so, I will be sure to post the results.

Chase

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post #1544 of 14278 Old 07-30-2006, 03:14 PM
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Below is the link that says last year's XBR1 had a game lag.

http://gear.ign.com/articles/720/720303p2.html

Is A2000 better on this?
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post #1545 of 14278 Old 07-30-2006, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naxos41 View Post

Below is the link that says last year's XBR1 had a game lag.

http://gear.ign.com/articles/720/720303p2.html

Is A2000 better on this?

As much as I like IGN, I'm not sure how scientific that assessment is. What resolution did the unnamed person who submitted this claim test, and did they have game mode on if it was interlaced content? This isn't necessarily a Boolean yes or no question for a TV with a game mode.

My A2000 Settings for the S3 TiVo, PS3, Xbox 360, and Nintendo Wii.
My A2000 Lag Test & A2000 Lag Timing Estimations.
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post #1546 of 14278 Old 07-30-2006, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naxos41 View Post

Below is the link that says last year's XBR1 had a game lag.

http://gear.ign.com/articles/720/720303p2.html

Is A2000 better on this?

Im really think what IGN has posted there is false, untill other owners on here can confirm that it actually did. They didnt test it for gaming lag, it was sent in my emails from people who supposidely owned the TV. Who knows it was only one person who set in a mesage saying it had gaming lag or if it was 10 people. Who knows if they were using the gaming mode as well. Point is it isnt credible. I also find it hard to believe it would have lag considering its pixel response time is 2.5ms and it has the gaming mode. Meaning I doubt the A2000 will have any lag as well.
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post #1547 of 14278 Old 07-30-2006, 03:29 PM
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Well, A2000 owners can stop speculations on lags either way by posting their first-hand gaming experiences here. That's what I originally asked for.

One thing I add, though, is that lags are supposed to be caused by conversions, not by pixel response delay.
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post #1548 of 14278 Old 07-30-2006, 03:45 PM
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Well, I've now had my KDS-60A2000 since Thursday (3 days now), and I've ran it though a number of tests with the over the air antenna, an Oppo 970 DVD player, and an Xbox 360. I have mostly very positive feelings with this set, but I have noticed a few annoyances (which may or may not bother some of you).

1) First off, to my eyes (not test patterns), it does appear that this set DOES PROPERLY DEINTERLACE 1080i. Solid 1080i content (such as over the air Law and Order HD) is noticeably higher res than 720p content. This is true almost across the board. Both the Xbox 360, and the Oppo 970 looked slightly sharper in 1080i than in 720p (the 360 and Oppo each upscaling lower res images to 1080i, and then the TV deinterlacing to 1080p). If the TV was bobbing, I'd suspect that 1080i would look either the same or inferior to 720, not superior. Note that the best true non-upscaling 1080i content I have seen was Law and Order HD. I do not own an HD-DVD player or BluRay player, nor do I have a graphics card capable of outputting 1080i.

2) This set is plenty bright. When I watch it in my house with the drapes and blinds closed, it is a bit too bright (and I like a bright picture). I was initially worried about how bright the set would be, but now I can confirm IT IS PLENTY BRIGHT for a proper viewing environment, and it is even bright enough when you have the lights on. I think I may even put it in bulb power saving mode when I watch it at night. I'm surprised I'm even considering the power saving mode for anything.

3) The DRC palette is only available with 480i content (this implies that this is DRC 1 not 2 or 2.5). However, many of the nice image enhancement features (detail enhancement, noise reduction, gamma control, etc.) are available without DRC being enabled. For real HQ 720 signal, I would suggest setting detail enhancement to medium. This yields a notably better texture detail on my Xbox 360 in Perfect Dark Zero (low detail enhancement didn't looks as nice, and high detail enhancement looked about the same as medium). Look at the cobblestones on the ground in PDZ desert environments for the benefit of this enhancement. My goal is to only use the features minimally that actually improve PQ.

4) GameMode works in both 480i and 1080i. I run my Xbox 360 in 1080i with GameMode enabled. I do not see any noticeable loss in PQ with GameMode enabled. The Xbox 360 looks a little sharper in 1080i than in 720p. I think it might be slightly smoother in 720p, but the smoothness difference (when testing Burnout Revenge) was negligible, while the resolution difference was noticeable to me. 1080i won out over 720 for the Xbox 360 (which further confirms to me that 1080i is properly deinterlaced).

5) The Oppo 970 upconverted DVDs better than the SXRD. I connected the Oppo 970 via HDMI. I had the Oppo output at 480i (i.e. the raw DVD signal) and had the SXRD DRC 4X algorithm try to up sample it. The image looked sharper when the Oppo up scaled it to 1080i (thus eliminating the need for the SXRD to upscale - it needed only deinterlace). I tried all Oppo resolutions and 1080i looked the best (with the SXRD's default settings). The SXRD's upscaling algorithms do work (and look ok), but the Oppo seemed to beat it at upscaling DVDs (i.e. 480i). The Oppo 971 would likely look even better. I'm borrowing the Oppo right now, but I can see an upscaling DVD player purchase in my near future.

6) You should really consider having a stand that roughly centers the screen to the level your eyes would be. I'm sitting pretty close (about 7 feet 8 inches from my eyes to the screen), and the stand I have it on is 16.5 inches high (yes almost an inch LOWER than the official Sony stand would place it). When seated (eyes centered about 37 inches off the ground) I notice about 2 inches of subtle dimming along the very top of the screen. The screen center is about 39.7 inches off the ground. If I keep this TV, I may have a 15 inch stand built to better center the TV. Certainly, if you sit further away from the TV (like 10 - 12 feet), this would be less of an issue to you. However, I question the wisdom of getting such a tall screen with a 20"+ stand. Those of you putting this set above your fireplaces are doomed to have an inferior brightness uniformity with these types of sets (whether you notice it or not). However, as always ignorance is bliss (sometimes I wish I didn't notice all these subtle things).

7) I have not noticed any GameLag for any games (online or off) in any scenario. I have never tried 480i or 1080i without GameMode on. The set seems to be good enough. However, it should be noted that I have not done any extensive lag testing yet. I've played Halo2 online, PDZ online, and Burnout Revenge offline. When I get a chance, I may try to do some more scientific lag testing, but for now I'll say that things seem OK.

8) The iris options are all in the same menu. Before with the XBR1, you could choose the iris default opening first, and secondly how aggressive the auto iris is. Now you have five fixed iris settings, and two auto iris settings all in the same list. This means that you have far fewer iris setting options than you did in the XBR1s. However, this probably isn't a big deal (since the XBR1 probably had more options than people knew what to do with anyway).

9) The set remembers your settings on a per input basis, but not on a per-input-per-resolution basis (at least in the user menu). This is bothersome. For example, my Xbox 360's 480p DVD player output comes through as brighter than the 720p and 1080i outputs. This means that when I use my calibration DVDs with the 360 (DVD playback is 480p) the settings are the same ones used in the 720p output, and 1080i output. This implies that it is impossible (at least from the user settings menu) to have both proper high-def game calibration, and standard def DVD playback calibration from the Xbox 360. The brightness differences are about 12 SXRD brightness units between the two resolutions on my 360. This is one of the biggest drawbacks I've noticed thus far.

10) Standard def doesn't look that great, but it is manageable (I only have analog cable, so take these words with a grain of salt). I wish I could use my old 32" CRT for standard def, and only bring this out for hidef signals. Alas, life is full of compromises.

11) No green glob. I only really looked for it after it had warmed up for a minute or so. I haven't seen one yet.

12) Blacks are dark, whites are white. This set has great contrast. I'm still playing around with the gamma and iris settings to get the best shadow detail. Definitely look at the gamma options, but use the black fixing options sparingly (if at all).

I may keep this set (50% chance), I may return it and get the 55" (40% chance), or I might buy something else all together (10% chance). Overall it is a solid TV. I am experiencing some eye strain. My current theory is that the set is too bright for my environment, but I also think the amount I need to glance upwards may be influencing the eye strain (get a stand that is the proper height). A primary contributor may be how much I've been using the set over the past few days.

Overall, I highly recommend the a2000 series, but please remember that no technology is perfect across the board. For those of you who are less discriminating than I am, I imagine you would not notice anything at all wrong with the set. I'm very detail-oriented when it comes to expensive technology purchases. I hope this info helps.

My A2000 Settings for the S3 TiVo, PS3, Xbox 360, and Nintendo Wii.
My A2000 Lag Test & A2000 Lag Timing Estimations.
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post #1549 of 14278 Old 07-30-2006, 04:19 PM
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Got my set yesterday. So far so good. Contrast ratio seems much improved over my last set (but that could be subjective). Soem discoloration on startup but it lasts only a few seconds. All is good except a slight issue with the screen. Electronics seem fine but there's a slight abnormality with the screen. Looks like a smear mark (almost like someone ran their fingers along a small area of the screen). I thought at first that it might have been from the delivery men after they unboxed the set but it's just a problem with the screen. I'll get Myer Emco to just do a switch and I'll be content.

Convergence is also better than the XBR1s I owned as well.

"Guns? Guns are easy."
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post #1550 of 14278 Old 07-30-2006, 04:21 PM
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AVBill,
Thanks for sharing your experience and the detailed review. I'm glad the 1080i Oppo fed into the display looks good. I would be interesting in hearing/seeing how 1080i->1080p conversion of the SXRD compares to an input from a 1080p DVD player. I just returned from seeing the 60A2000 at a local CC and it was about as I expected. There were two different HD feeds connected showing a mixture of film and video content and the picture looked good. Not what I would call a WOW factor but its a store display limited in part by the quality of source material connected. From your description I probably am in a similar seating arrangement and will likely be opting for a 55/56inch display (A2000/FN97/5679). One of the issues (for me) with the 55A2000 is that Sony used the same stand as the 60A2000 so I spent some time trying to determine if the stand for the 55E2000 would work with the 55A2000.

Rick
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post #1551 of 14278 Old 07-30-2006, 04:29 PM
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GREAT REVIEW, Bill!

Hey, have you had a chance to watch action scenes yet (such as sports) to determine if there is any motion blurring with the set?

Also, regarding SD, do you think that a smaller screen (say the 50 or 55 inch) would show SD better than the 60-inch?

Thanks for the info!
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post #1552 of 14278 Old 07-30-2006, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonWW View Post

Without mentioning any details, it looks like **** (rhymes with Lies) has the lowest price so far. Way less than even the online places.

Wonder why they have yet to post the 50" and 55" set?
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post #1553 of 14278 Old 07-30-2006, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SalvatoreLucian View Post

Wonder why they have yet to post the 50" and 55" set?

The local Palo Alto one has sold out of the 60, but has the 50 and 55 in stock now. :-)

Thanks,
mike
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post #1554 of 14278 Old 07-30-2006, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gdog2004 View Post

Glad to see a happy owner. By the way--looking at that pic of your living room..does anyone sit on the left on that couch? Which would be about 6-7 feet away I am guessing. Curious if they could deal with the 60 at that distance...

Furthest seat on couch is fine, middle seat is 7' away and is at a bit of an angle (45 deg) to the TV..but still watchable. I would have no issue sitting there if I had friends & family over. In the closest seat, the picture suddenly becomes dimmer and the viewing angle is too sharp. 2 out of 3's not bad though at that distance & angle.
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post #1555 of 14278 Old 07-30-2006, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattFoley View Post

GREAT REVIEW, Bill!

Hey, have you had a chance to watch action scenes yet (such as sports) to determine if there is any motion blurring with the set?

Also, regarding SD, do you think that a smaller screen (say the 50 or 55 inch) would show SD better than the 60-inch?

Thanks for the info!

I've been watching content far faster than sports: namely fast video games. I can pretty much guarantee that Burnout Revenge is faster than any sports telecast. The pixels on this set update ultra-fast. The entire screen turns from white to black almost instantly (from what I can see). I have seen no motion blur what-so-ever on any content. Obviously, the cable feeds may add some motion artifacts (which the games do not) which have to do with their own compression. Motion blurring does not seem to be an issue with the a2000 series from my perspective.

Yes, the smaller the set, the less you would notice SD issues, but the less you would notice the greatness of 1080 content. It is a game of trade offs.

My A2000 Settings for the S3 TiVo, PS3, Xbox 360, and Nintendo Wii.
My A2000 Lag Test & A2000 Lag Timing Estimations.
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post #1556 of 14278 Old 07-30-2006, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TerriB View Post

Well we did it. We got the 60A2000 yesterday at Tweeter's. They brought it out so we could see it and HD looked awesome right out of the box. SD did not look so great but we think we can do better at home (hopefully...or it may go back and wait for the XBR2). My husband plans to run SD via s-video and HD via HDMI. Sound will go directly to our Pioneer receiver. We are on Dish and have the VIP 622.

We ended up paying about 400.00 more than buying it on line but that really is just about the tax and now we have a 60 day trial period and we are dealing with local people. In fact, we have become friends with the salesman that has been putting up with us since the beginning of June.

Tweeter's has a person that callibrates their sets....charge is 100.00. Has anyone had any experience with having their set callibrated by Tweeter's?

Delivery is set for Tuesday. Will try to post pictures.

Which Tweeter's? I only need to know the state, as the Mass stores won't have them for display until the end of this week.
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post #1557 of 14278 Old 07-30-2006, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVBill View Post

2) This set is plenty bright. When I watch it in my house with the drapes and blinds closed, it is a bit too bright (and I like a bright picture). I was initially worried about how bright the set would be, but now I can confirm IT IS PLENTY BRIGHT for a proper viewing environment, and it is even bright enough when you have the lights on. I think I may even put it in bulb power saving mode when I watch it at night. I'm surprised I'm even considering the power saving mode for anything.

I agree about the brightness. I've put it into power saving mode and that helps. I'm watching the Red Sox, Angels game on ESPN HD and wow, it's like looking through a window. Even my wife is watching and she hates the sox.
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post #1558 of 14278 Old 07-30-2006, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by SalvatoreLucian View Post

Wonder why they have yet to post the 50" and 55" set?

i went to resellerratings to check out "Lie's O.U.T.P.O.S.T" and to my dismay, they have horrible reviews. I would think that a big company like "Lies" would have many satisfied customers. However, they do have an amazing price, free shipping and no tax to most states
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post #1559 of 14278 Old 07-30-2006, 05:55 PM
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I watched some OTA local NBC,CBS,ABC,FOX,PBS and I was not happy with the
edges, or the moskito noise. The KDS-R60XBR1 is certainly my favorite between the two. The HD looks great, and I'll check with a HD-A1 input later. I'm also going to check the KDS-60A2000 with cable HD box in the next couple of days to see if I'm just unhappy with the Sony OTA tuner in the set. The main advantage of the new SXRD is the Blu ray input at 1080P, and I want to know how that looks like.

Nick
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post #1560 of 14278 Old 07-30-2006, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by MikeSM View Post

The local Palo Alto ...

This isn't a shopping question. I'm just interested in how many towns are called Palo Alto.

Where is yours?

How tall is your tree?
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