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post #451 of 3250 Old 09-04-2006, 01:52 PM
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Googer - thanks for the edu about the Y/C. I hasn't known that and the pattern definately showed in needed the adjustment as you said. With program material I tried changing the setting from min to max to get a sense for exactly what it does and what affect there is when the Y/C delay is not set properly. However I didn't see much change from min to max. Main thing was that text in the program guide seemed dimmer at min setting than max. However obviously there is something else to look for since you said you noticed by eye that Y/C was definately off which is why you went hunting for it.

Also do you think its possible to adjust the Y/C for each color separately as well? For instance the green and cyan needed another click higher but that would have pushed the other colors off.

Lastly, any sense for when you may have some color calibration info? I'm looking forward to hearing what changes you think are necessary to get closer to REC 709.
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post #452 of 3250 Old 09-04-2006, 02:01 PM
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My July build on my 60in A2000(serial # 9004658) had a default setting of 5 on the low pass filter setting. I changed it to 7 and it looks better.

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post #453 of 3250 Old 09-04-2006, 02:26 PM
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Went into service menu on my July build (9005862) and the LPF setting was set to 5.. Changed it to 7, and what a difference.. Much sharper.. (I was using a 1080i input)..

For kicks, I sent a 1080p signal from my scaler and also the value was at 5.. I set this to 7, but did not notice a difference..

On a side note;;

If I want to just shift my picture left or right, or up or down (using a overscan patteren), what section is that in?? (WEM SERVICE
067-070???)

Thanx much..
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post #454 of 3250 Old 09-04-2006, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Googer View Post

I didn't mess with overscan at 480i or 480p, but I did note that playing with it even at 720p seemed to be hurting frequency response (even though I didn't really think it should have been given that the SXRD panels still have plenty of resolution to fully resolve 720p as the size and therefore overscan gets reduced).

Googer, when you say "hurting frequency respose", how were you measuring that? I suspect that you were observing that 1 pixel wide vertical lines were not sharp. If this is the case, the real issue is that on 720p there are 1280 pixels in one line vs 1920 pixels in a 1080 line. The challange is to map these 1280 pixels onto the 1920 structure. If they tried to map directly every other line would be 2 pixels wide on the 1920 display. This would look wierd - especially when there is a slight horizontal motion. They are much more likely to use other techniques, that essentially never produce a sharp transition (but don't produce unnatural artifacts). Thus 720p will not look as sharp on a 1920 pixel wide display as it will on a 1280 pixel wide display.

BTW, a lot of plasma and LCD displays are 768 x 1440 and NOTHING (except computer text) is really sharp on those guys as EVERYTHING has to be scaled.

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post #455 of 3250 Old 09-04-2006, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

RTK - Can you check the label/sticker on the back of your set and let us know if it is an August 2006 build date? If so, and with its default setting of 6 instead of 5 as reported in the June/July builds, that could confirm that this is indeed the primary setting for LPF we are after... Please let us know. Thanks.


Manufactured: August 2006 SP3

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post #456 of 3250 Old 09-04-2006, 04:39 PM
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I think we need a section or thread dedicated to going into the Service Menu on these sets. We can outline all the precautions and warnings.
How to get into and out of the SM as well as how to save and not save info.
How to navigate to the settings we need and what to possibly change them to.

Right now the info is scattered all around. I'm not qualified to organize this, anyone else want to?
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post #457 of 3250 Old 09-04-2006, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonWW View Post

I think we need a section or thread dedicated to going into the Service Menu on these sets. We can outline all the precautions and warnings.
How to get into and out of the SM as well as how to save and not save info.
How to navigate to the settings we need and what to possibly change them to.

Right now the info is scattered all around. I'm not qualified to organize this, anyone else want to?

I'm not opposed to a separate thread but accessing, navigating and saving info in the service meu is already in the FAQ listed in the second post of this thread.

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post #458 of 3250 Old 09-04-2006, 05:38 PM
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I tried to get into the SM several times using the combinations posted here and could not get in. It goes back to the original picture. What am I doing wrong? How long should each key on the remote be pressed?

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post #459 of 3250 Old 09-04-2006, 05:42 PM
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The key sequence needs to be entered in a timely fashion. Do know hold down each key--just press them as you normally would. I've never had a problem entering the service menu.

It's been a couple of days since I did Googer's LPF fix and the sharpness is very appreciable!
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post #460 of 3250 Old 09-04-2006, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justinto View Post

I tried to get into the SM several times using the combinations posted here and could not get in. It goes back to the original picture. What am I doing wrong? How long should each key on the remote be pressed?

Just to make sure of the (maybe) obvious: The set should OFF to begin with (at least that is always the way I do it).

Actually, according to (at least) one of the Sony service manuals that I have seen, you must press the buttons in rapid sequence - in less than 1 second for each. You have to do it fast. Bulb based sets, with power on delays, such as the A2000, take some time to see if you were successful.

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post #461 of 3250 Old 09-04-2006, 06:02 PM
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I must be really stupid. I tried the sequence six times and cannot get ito the SM. I do start with the set on input 6, while there is an HD picture (unsupported audio) through the Satellite receiver. Then I press power off, display, 5, volume up, power on. The green light blinks for awhile then the set turns on as if it were normal.

I am puzzled.

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post #462 of 3250 Old 09-04-2006, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justinto View Post

Then I press power off,

Perhaps that's the problem: Power off is not part of the sequence. The set should have been off for a little bit (because the bulb needs to cool down I normally make that a minute or two) before doing the display, 5, volume up, power on sequence.

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post #463 of 3250 Old 09-04-2006, 06:39 PM
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Okay - that worked

Thanks

Justin

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post #464 of 3250 Old 09-04-2006, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Googer - thanks for the edu about the Y/C. I hasn't known that and the pattern definately showed in needed the adjustment as you said. With program material I tried changing the setting from min to max to get a sense for exactly what it does and what affect there is when the Y/C delay is not set properly. However I didn't see much change from min to max. Main thing was that text in the program guide seemed dimmer at min setting than max. However obviously there is something else to look for since you said you noticed by eye that Y/C was definately off which is why you went hunting for it.

I had first really noticed the Y/C delay offset being off when using my laptop on input 6 in 720p mode. I had noticed that icons looked to have a color fringe appearing to their left and be missing color on their right side, especially noticable with red and orange colors (such as the Firefox icon).

Quote:
Also do you think its possible to adjust the Y/C for each color separately as well? For instance the green and cyan needed another click higher but that would have pushed the other colors off.

I'm not aware of any way of adjusting the delay for individual colors - it's typically just a wholesale offset for adjusting the luma / brightness (Y) vs. chroma / color (C).

Quote:
Lastly, any sense for when you may have some color calibration info? I'm looking forward to hearing what changes you think are necessary to get closer to REC 709.

I'm going to play around with a bunch of the SM settings on my GWIII (whose primary colors I never figured out how to adjust either) since the types of settings in its service menu are similar to that of the A2000 (even though the settings themselves aren't necessarily identical). What I'm hoping is that I figure out a generic method that works that I'd then be able to apply to my coworker's set. I'll post a very early warning now that the ideas I'm throwing around in my head for how to do this would likely involve very extensive SM changes that would lead to a rather messed-up looking image until all of them are applied (I'm thinking that after making the adjustments for the primaries that I'd likely need to redo grayscale and color decoder settings completely over from scratch and the changes likely wouldn't be subtle given how much I'd be changing the green and red primaries).

I may just go ahead and post the current settings I have it set at but I don't currently have a final pretty tristim chart to show for it (because I was still in progress with adjusting settings and never bothered to just take a full set of color readings after the last set of adjustments I'd made last time I called it a night on Saturday night at his place)...
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post #465 of 3250 Old 09-04-2006, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davehancock View Post

Googer, when you say "hurting frequency respose", how were you measuring that? I suspect that you were observing that 1 pixel wide vertical lines were not sharp. If this is the case, the real issue is that on 720p there are 1280 pixels in one line vs 1920 pixels in a 1080 line. The challange is to map these 1280 pixels onto the 1920 structure. If they tried to map directly every other line would be 2 pixels wide on the 1920 display. This would look wierd - especially when there is a slight horizontal motion. They are much more likely to use other techniques, that essentially never produce a sharp transition (but don't produce unnatural artifacts). Thus 720p will not look as sharp on a 1920 pixel wide display as it will on a 1280 pixel wide display.

BTW, a lot of plasma and LCD displays are 768 x 1440 and NOTHING (except computer text) is really sharp on those guys as EVERYTHING has to be scaled.

You're right that mapping 1280x720 onto 1920x1080 isn't a simple clean thing to do, so the scaler has some work cut out for it to do the job well. However, it appears to be doing exactly that, because 1 pixel wide vertical lines appear very cleanly with the out-of-the-box settings (as do 1 pixel tall horizontal lines). As I tried adjusting the overscan in WEM SERVICE 070 scancon inpl_ovs.spf though (by changing the default value away from 50), it would continue to resolve every line just fine but a lot of moire-type artifacts were appearing. I expected this to be a problem if one tried to adjust overscan on 1080i and 1080p but it was somewhat of a surprise to see this at 720p. That's why I suspect there's other settings for overscan somewhere and these overscan adjustments may be post-resolution scaling (i.e., I was trying to adjust overscan after the 720p signal was already scaled to 1080p). If that's the case, now that I think about it some more, the settings in this menu likely aren't input / resolution specific and would be even more reason to not use them.
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post #466 of 3250 Old 09-05-2006, 01:09 AM
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Does anyone have any good settings using a dish vip622 STB through HDMI? I'm a major noob, and would like to adjust my settings without having to go through the SM. If I did that, I think I'd ruin the set. I know it's individual preference but having some start points would be nice. Thanks a bunch.
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post #467 of 3250 Old 09-05-2006, 01:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g182237 View Post

Does anyone have any good settings using a dish vip622 STB through HDMI? I'm a major noob, and would like to adjust my settings without having to go through the SM. If I did that, I think I'd ruin the set. I know it's individual preference but having some start points would be nice. Thanks a bunch.

I use a Vip211 over HDMI. You can try my settings (<--click link,) or you can try the CNET-recommended settings posted somewhere in the first few pages of this thread.

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post #468 of 3250 Old 09-05-2006, 06:33 AM
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Regarding getting into the service menui - here's what I do and it works every time. First I have the set ON and displaying a picture (doesn't have to be fully warmed up but the point is that it is on and displaying something and not just 'coming on').

Then I hit Power to turn it off, Display, 5, Vol Up, Power. I enter that sequence rapidly, in about 1-1.5 seconds or so. Works every time. To exit the service menu I hit Power to turn if off, then a second later I hit Power again to turn it back on.

Note that the lamp stays lit for about 5 seconds after you turn power off. So that's nice about this is that I can go in and out of the service menu without restriking the lamp.
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post #469 of 3250 Old 09-05-2006, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RTK View Post

Manufactured: August 2006 SP3

Thanks - and just to confirm, you said that your default setting was 6 for this value not 5 right? So we have everyone using June/July builds reporting a default value of 5, and an August build reporting a default setting of 6. Then we have Googer independantly saying he believes that changing this value from 5 to 6 is the LPF fix. Coincidence? I think not. Again, nice find Googer!

As a side note unlike what many people are reporting here, personally I do not see a noticeable difference between a setting of 5 or 6, but I'm using 6 now anyway.
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post #470 of 3250 Old 09-05-2006, 06:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muad'dib View Post

Went into service menu on my July build (9005862) and the LPF setting was set to 5.. Changed it to 7, and what a difference.. Much sharper.. (I was using a 1080i input)..

For kicks, I sent a 1080p signal from my scaler and also the value was at 5.. I set this to 7, but did not notice a difference..

On a side note;;

If I want to just shift my picture left or right, or up or down (using a overscan patteren), what section is that in?? (WEM SERVICE
067-070???)

Thanx much..

The settings I used to shift the picture left/right and up/down are under the PANEL section, item #1 subitems 4 and 5. IIRC they are labeled as VST_POS and HST_POS. Left/right needed little adjustment but up/down needed significant adjustment as it was shifted too far down. Its easy to find the right spot using a good alignment pattern like a sharpness pattern with overscan markers.
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post #471 of 3250 Old 09-05-2006, 07:50 AM
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This one has the following subgroups.. AFCC, CGMS, IDLV, IDOF, IDP, IDPH, IDS, IDSL, R3L, WSS, WSSR.

I assume CGMS is for 'Copy Generation Management System'. My TV is set to 1. Max is 3. I wonder if this can be changed to defeat any copy protection.

WSS must stand for 'Widescreen Signaling'. My TV is set to 0. Max is 1.

Does anyone have any info on what these do and possible setting results? I guess I could experiment - but if someone else already has some info that would make life easier.

There is also a user_bnr.spf with one subgroup BNRL. My TV is set to 0. Max is 7. Adjusts the user banner names for channels in some form I guess.
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post #472 of 3250 Old 09-05-2006, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

The settings I used to shift the picture left/right and up/down are under the PANEL section, item #1 subitems 4 and 5. IIRC they are labeled as VST_POS and HST_POS. Left/right needed little adjustment but up/down needed significant adjustment as it was shifted too far down. Its easy to find the right spot using a good alignment pattern like a sharpness pattern with overscan markers.

Awesome, thanks much for the great info..
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post #473 of 3250 Old 09-05-2006, 09:00 AM
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I have a Sony NS975 DVD player going into my 60A2000 via HDMI. What resolution output should I use on the DVD player? Any other recommendations for settings on the 975? Thanks, Don

Donald S Konicoff
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post #474 of 3250 Old 09-05-2006, 09:11 AM - Thread Starter
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FYI - everyone.

When you accurately identify specific settings, what they are good for, and what not, send me or post a little write up with exactly what it does, and exactly what the item and menu names and numbers are. Use Googer's LPF post as a example of what information to include. I'll include it all in the FAQ for easy future reference.
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post #475 of 3250 Old 09-05-2006, 09:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

As a side note unlike what many people are reporting here, personally I do not see a noticeable difference between a setting of 5 or 6, but I'm using 6 now anyway.

I changed mine from 5 and decided to go with 7 (for no particular reason). I also could find no differences in picture and I spent quite some time looking between 5, 6, and 7. I wonder if the people that are seeing dramatic differences are just tricking themselves or not.

Or maybe there is a more involved technical explanation where this setting can override another setting that relates to LPF elsewhere in the menu, and if you LPF is "wrong" this will fix it, but if it's "right" this has no effect.
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post #476 of 3250 Old 09-05-2006, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dallas27 View Post

I wonder if the people that are seeing dramatic differences are just tricking themselves or not.

Or maybe there is a more involved technical explanation where this setting can override another setting that relates to LPF elsewhere in the menu, and if you LPF is "wrong" this will fix it, but if it's "right" this has no effect.

I do see a difference, as I said. However, what I didn't mention was that I saw the difference when using the internal tuner to view 1080i content, while sitting about 5' away from the TV right after having made the change to YFLR (not where I would usually sit,) and before proceeding to check the YFLR value for inputs 4, 6 and 7 (the only other ones I use.) The difference wasn't noticeable for the other inputs, which are connected to my receiver, my Vip211 and my DVD player, respectively. And the YFLR setting was already at 7 for those inputs anyway, whether because the change was global, or for some other reason, who can say?

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post #477 of 3250 Old 09-05-2006, 09:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Interesting. Could everyone who made the change post what thier "source" and input number was when they tested it, as well as if they saw a change? Maybe this is specific to the internal tuner, or analog inputs.

I was using 1080i (NBC) Cable Box source input via HDMI. I saw no change.
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post #478 of 3250 Old 09-05-2006, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Thanks - and just to confirm, you said that your default setting was 6 for this value not 5 right? So we have everyone using June/July builds reporting a default value of 5, and an August build reporting a default setting of 6. Then we have Googer independantly saying he believes that changing this value from 5 to 6 is the LPF fix. Coincidence? I think not. Again, nice find Googer!

As a side note unlike what many people are reporting here, personally I do not see a noticeable difference between a setting of 5 or 6, but I'm using 6 now anyway.

Yes, on my August build 55A2000 "014 YFLR" was set at 6. I did not do any testing or serious investigation comparing 5, 6 or 7.

Rick
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post #479 of 3250 Old 09-05-2006, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dallas27 View Post

Maybe this is specific to the internal tuner, or analog inputs.

You'd think you'd need a true 1080i signal, that hasn't been compressed or otherwise distorted by prior processing, to have any chance at seeing any difference. Sitting close enough to the screen, and having good close-up vision (like I do,) would probably help, too.

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post #480 of 3250 Old 09-05-2006, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dallas27 View Post

Interesting. Could everyone who made the change post what thier "source" and input number was when they tested it, as well as if they saw a change? Maybe this is specific to the internal tuner, or analog inputs.

I was using 1080i (NBC) Cable Box source input via HDMI. I saw no change.

I was using 1080i over HDMI input 7 from both an upscaling DVD player and Comcast STB.
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