Samsung HLS-5679W LED DLP Owners Thread (*NO PRICE TALK) - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 2944 Old 08-22-2006, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by luidoly View Post

... but it would be someting to try, same with better HDMI cables???,

As I understand it, changing HDMI cables only helps if you are getting dropped signals or noticeable flashing points of white in your image. Those conditions usually only show up when the cable length gets out around 50'. It's safe to assume that your cable is OK if its one of the short ones.

Calibration Resources:

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post #272 of 2944 Old 08-22-2006, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Wesley Hester View Post

Already did. I returned everything back to default and have pretty much 'settled in' with the TV for now. All inputs have been calibrated by me for me.

But didn't know that the wobulation could be turned off until now. Just say NO! Leave it ON!

I'm getting slow from adjusting this set so much. It only recently dawned on me that SP was Smooth Picture and that Smooth Picture is Wobulation.

You might find my recommended Samsung HL-S settings to be useful. Passing it through Avical's DVE tutorial might assist even further.

Good luck!

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post #273 of 2944 Old 08-22-2006, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by jdmoser View Post

Still not an owner yet, but I am on the waiting list thru TVA. Just wanted to let you know that if you go this web site (SamsungParts) and put in SM-HLS5679W you can order the service manual. I have one coming in the mail. I guess I'll have to wait and see if it is the correct manual. I will let you know.

http://www.samsungparts.com/default.asp

Thank you for the link, I ordered one too.
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post #274 of 2944 Old 08-22-2006, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

As I understand it, changing HDMI cables only helps if you are getting dropped signals or noticeable flashing points of white in your image. Those conditions usually only show up when the cable length gets out around 50'. It's safe to assume that your cable is OK if its one of the short ones.

That's what I thought, it is 6 feet with plenty to spare. I've order the Service Manual in anticipation of the calibration.
Thanks.
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post #275 of 2944 Old 08-22-2006, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikef5 View Post

Could someone that has this set and sees "banding" please upload a picture to show what you are talking about ??? Thanks

Laters,
Mikef5

Originally posted by Klac,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_banding
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post #276 of 2944 Old 08-23-2006, 12:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Joey K View Post

Does it make sense to you that it may be better if it is set to 720P? That is, is it easier for the upconverter in the TV to handle 720P->1080P, than 1080i ->1080P, and if the answer is yes, would it make sense that it might help the color banding?

It is generally better to feed a 1080p display with a progressive signal. Scaling is much quicker and easier to do than motion-adaptive de-interlacing. If you cannot feed it with 1080p, then 720p is next-best.

This is especially true with an up-converting DVD player... Feeding the display with 1080i means that the player has to de-interlace the 480i signal on the DVD, scale it, and re-interlace it. Then the display has to de-interlace it a second time.

It is unlikely that 720p will help the color banding. Different issue altogether.

Gary
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post #277 of 2944 Old 08-23-2006, 06:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdmoser View Post

Still not an owner yet, but I am on the waiting list thru TVA. Just wanted to let you know that if you go this web site (SamsungParts) and put in SM-HLS5679W you can order the service manual. I have one coming in the mail. I guess I'll have to wait and see if it is the correct manual. I will let you know.

http://www.samsungparts.com/default.asp

Nice find, ordered mine as well.
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post #278 of 2944 Old 08-23-2006, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdmoser View Post

Still not an owner yet, but I am on the waiting list thru TVA. Just wanted to let you know that if you go this web site (SamsungParts) and put in SM-HLS5679W you can order the service manual. I have one coming in the mail. I guess I'll have to wait and see if it is the correct manual. I will let you know.

http://www.samsungparts.com/default.asp


I've been trying off and on to get the manual ever since I had the set. Thanks for the update. I ordered one yesterday too.


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post #279 of 2944 Old 08-23-2006, 12:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Based on what you have reported, it seem likely that the HL-S5679 has a higher gain screen than the other HLS models. That would explain the slightly reduced horizontal viewing area. Increasing gain was probably done for the showroom.

I just compared the part numbers for the two screens (FRESNEL & LENTICULAR) between the 5679 and the 5688, they're the same. Is there anything else that might cause this? The light source itself?
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post #280 of 2944 Old 08-23-2006, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSB View Post

It is generally better to feed a 1080p display with a progressive signal. Scaling is much quicker and easier to do than motion-adaptive de-interlacing. If you cannot feed it with 1080p, then 720p is next-best.

This is especially true with an up-converting DVD player... Feeding the display with 1080i means that the player has to de-interlace the 480i signal on the DVD, scale it, and re-interlace it. Then the display has to de-interlace it a second time.

It is unlikely that 720p will help the color banding. Different issue altogether.

Gary

Hi Gary. So, which is better, 480p from DVD player & let TV scale to 1080p, or 720p & let TV scale to 1080p?

Wouldn't a 720p signal from an upscaling DVD player be scaled twice, once in the player to 720p, and once again in the TV from 720p to 1080p, whereas 480p would be scaled only once (in the TV)?

Thanks.
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post #281 of 2944 Old 08-23-2006, 02:56 PM
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Well, I have decided to return the set:

---Not bright enough except in dark room

--- Color banding is unacceptble except in Movie Mode which just aggravets the above problem even further.

---Most improtantly my wife says it looks "worse than the 5yr old CRT RP TV we just got rid of, so why did we drop $4K?"
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post #282 of 2944 Old 08-23-2006, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey K View Post

Well, I have decided to return the set:

---Not bright enough except in dark room

--- Color banding is unacceptble except in Movie Mode which just aggravets the above problem even further.

---Most improtantly my wife says it looks "worse than the 5yr old CRT RP TV we just got rid of, so why did we drop $4K?"

Yawn. As expected. First generation new technology typically has drawbacks that seldom get reported. Many as just soo excited to have something new.
In reality its simply just a waste of time and money.

P.S. Akai is coming out with one before 2010! World exclusive at Sams Club!!!
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post #283 of 2944 Old 08-23-2006, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klac View Post

I just compared the part numbers for the two screens (FRESNEL & LENTICULAR) between the 5679 and the 5688, they're the same. Is there anything else that might cause this?

I don't' know.

Quote:


The light source itself?

I'll check viewing angles more carefully the next time I see the HL-S5679. My impression is that both angles are narrow compared to lamp based sets.

Calibration Resources:

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post #284 of 2944 Old 08-23-2006, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey K View Post

Well, I have decided to return the set:

---Not bright enough except in dark room

--- Color banding is unacceptble except in Movie Mode which just aggravets the above problem even further.

---Most improtantly my wife says it looks "worse than the 5yr old CRT RP TV we just got rid of, so why did we drop $4K?"


I find the set too bright in a dark room and I am looking into ways of darkening it up especially with "dark" movies. During the day, the room is fairly bright. Not much so. There are curtains over two windows but they are shear and not very think. The image seems bright enough to my eyes and my only concern has been lowering the lowest black level for watching movies at night without having to add low light back into the room.

I now have all of my inputs and resolutions set using Movie Mode and have found it to be excellent once tweaked. I use Normal Color. The color banding with DNIe is unacceptable to me because I believe the "benefits" of DNIe add to the premium of the product and I can't use any of them. Furthermore, must of the features listed for the set center around DNIe and its benefits but in fact they haven't brought anything to the table for me.

I will report back once my service manual arrives and I do a little more "tweaking" this weekend.


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post #285 of 2944 Old 08-23-2006, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey K View Post

Well, I have decided to return the set:

---Not bright enough except in dark room

--- Color banding is unacceptble except in Movie Mode which just aggravets the above problem even further.

---Most improtantly my wife says it looks "worse than the 5yr old CRT RP TV we just got rid of, so why did we drop $4K?"

I wonder if you just had something wrong with your set. The TV looks way better than my 36" CRT and is plenty bright in a room that has six 8 foot windows. I do mostly watch TV with the blinds closed. I just don't see enough color banding to influence me to return the TV. There seems to be something wrong with every TV out there. Even my CRT had a vertical lines during dark scenes that drove me crazy at first. Really what are the choices? We can choose color banding, rainbows, green blobs, screen doors, or some other type of pixilation that we have not yet defined.
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post #286 of 2944 Old 08-23-2006, 04:02 PM
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I agree that it can be made to be acceptable in low light, and that is probably the "proper way" to watch, but in the daytime with curtains open I want to watch TV also, and to do this we need it in another Mode besides the Movie Mode and when evryone in my house (those much less discerning htan me) see the color banding, what is the point.

I am glad you are happy, but I just cannot get it to work
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post #287 of 2944 Old 08-23-2006, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by GSB View Post

It is generally better to feed a 1080p display with a progressive signal. Scaling is much quicker and easier to do than motion-adaptive de-interlacing. If you cannot feed it with 1080p, then 720p is next-best.

This is especially true with an up-converting DVD player... Feeding the display with 1080i means that the player has to de-interlace the 480i signal on the DVD, scale it, and re-interlace it. Then the display has to de-interlace it a second time.

It is unlikely that 720p will help the color banding. Different issue altogether.

Gary

I would have thought the same thing, believe me, but several HL-S owners (of the standard DLPs, not the 5679) have reported that, next to a 1080p signal, a 1080i signal is best. Then 720p.
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post #288 of 2944 Old 08-23-2006, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by mjmbond View Post

Hi Gary. So, which is better, 480p from DVD player & let TV scale to 1080p, or 720p & let TV scale to 1080p?

Wouldn't a 720p signal from an upscaling DVD player be scaled twice, once in the player to 720p, and once again in the TV from 720p to 1080p, whereas 480p would be scaled only once (in the TV)?

Thanks.

Yes, it's scaled twice. I think that even with 480p it is being de-interlaced by the DVD player in a separate step. I'm pretty sure I've heard that feeding a 720p signal is usually better than 480p though...and 1080i is even better than 720p. (I hear the Samsung's deinterlace pretty well but don't scale as well as DVD players.)
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post #289 of 2944 Old 08-23-2006, 11:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tg2k View Post

I would have thought the same thing, believe me, but several HL-S owners (of the standard DLPs, not the 5679) have reported that, next to a 1080p signal, a 1080i signal is best. Then 720p.

1080i is my preference also, followed by 720p. Not surprising I suppose since the 5679 uses the same video processing as the other 1080p HLS's.
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post #290 of 2944 Old 08-24-2006, 01:05 AM
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Can anyone post pictures of the cabinet? All the pictures I can find online are the same generic picture with a different image background displayed, =-(
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post #291 of 2944 Old 08-24-2006, 05:17 AM
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so in movie mode do you get color banding using DNIe? has anybody had there tv calibrated using dve or having a professional do it to see if it resolves the color banding. how is the clarity of the picture using DNIe reguardless of the color banding?
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post #292 of 2944 Old 08-24-2006, 05:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley Hester View Post

I find the set too bright in a dark room and I am looking into ways of darkening it up especially with "dark" movies. During the day, the room is fairly bright. Not much so. There are curtains over two windows but they are shear and not very think. The image seems bright enough to my eyes and my only concern has been lowering the lowest black level for watching movies at night without having to add low light back into the room.

I now have all of my inputs and resolutions set using Movie Mode and have found it to be excellent once tweaked. I use Normal Color. The color banding with DNIe is unacceptable to me because I believe the "benefits" of DNIe add to the premium of the product and I can't use any of them. Furthermore, must of the features listed for the set center around DNIe and its benefits but in fact they haven't brought anything to the table for me.

I will report back once my service manual arrives and I do a little more "tweaking" this weekend.

Turning DNIe on will induce floating black, excessive edge enhancement, and horizontal banding viewable in dimly lit scenes. Consequently, it should always be kept off.

Eliab
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post #293 of 2944 Old 08-24-2006, 06:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey K View Post

I agree that it can be made to be acceptable in low light, and that is probably the "proper way" to watch, but in the daytime with curtains open I want to watch TV also, and to do this we need it in another Mode besides the Movie Mode and when evryone in my house (those much less discerning htan me) see the color banding, what is the point.

I am glad you are happy, but I just cannot get it to work

The following is taken from an article that I wrote for American Wired several months ago regarding the proper viewing environment.

LIGHT CONTROL

The most obvious and least difficult thing that anyone can do to instantly improve their display's image is to simply turn off all the lights and/or to view it during the evening when the daylight is not a factor anymore. The one and only exception to this rule being a bias light (more on this later). Consider this, a typical theater will have a contrast ratio (CR) of about 100:1. Whereas a typical living room during the day or at night with all the lights on may only achieve a CR of about 10:1. Put another way, in a darkened theater the blacks may be approximately 100 times darker than white. Whereas in a bright living room, the blacks may only be about 10 times darker than white. This greatly limited dynamic range will negatively impact image quality in a number of ways. For one, fine shadow detail (faint information in dark regions of the picture, i.e., pinstripes on a dark suit, etc.) will likely go unnoticed. The same holds true for the opposite end of the spectrum where fine white detail (information in the bright regions of the picture, i.e. clouds, etc.) will be difficult to perceive as well. Colors too will suffer in that they will get washed out by the light hitting the screen. Think of a flashlight pointed at a wall and how the spotlight seems to lighten the color. Even in a very bright room, the light aimed at the wall would still "dilute" the color somewhat. This is an extreme example but nonetheless illustrates to some degree how intense light (i.e., a bright room) can make colors seem faded.

Another reason to do your critical viewing in a controlled ambient lighting environment is because an excessively bright room will significantly alter a picture's "sound-stage" to use an audio analogy or what I refer to as "atmosphere." By that I mean a display's ability to more accurately reproduce the natural conditions associated with a certain time of day, year, and/or climate most noticeable in outdoor scenes. With that audio analogy in mind, if you were to place two speakers side by side and gradually space them apart to their optimum positions while listening to music, you would witness the soundfield grow from a flat boom-box-like quality to a spatial soundstage where the placement of instruments/musicians will be realized and where a sense of the room that the recording was done in will be possible (particularly with acoustic music). Just as the music would "come alive" as the speakers are moved into to their correct location so will a display's picture as the ambient light in the viewing environment is lowered to its correct level (off!).

Now, some of you might be thinking that you cannot watch TV in a completely darkened room either because it is mostly done during the day in a room were the ambient light cannot be controlled, you or your significant other prefers to have a light on when viewing during the evening, and/or because it causes your eye fatigue. My short response to these objections would be this.

There does not exist, nor will there ever likely exist, a video system that can perform to optimum levels if the image is being bombarded by stray light (even if Joe Kane himself were to calibrate it!).

Why buy a Ferrari F430 if you are only going to drive it to the supermarket? To me, it is perfectly analogous to seeing people spend thousands, often tens of thousands of dollars assembling a video system only to view it with the lights on. Amazingly, I have actually had some clients in the past who insisted on having me perform a calibration with the lights on because that was how they viewed TV, never mind the fact they were paying me almost $500.00 to improve the picture! Occasionally, I would get an individual that wanted me to create a correct setting for nighttime viewing and a correct setting for daytime viewing. Let me make this as perfectly clear as possible.

There is no such thing as a "Correct Daytime Mode" on a display device. I would suggest renaming it "Incorrect Daytime Mode" instead as the brightness and contrast will have to be raised to undesirable (and perhaps unsafe) levels to compensate for room lighting. Thus the term "Correct Daytime Mode" is actually a misnomer as it will surely have to deviate from the truly correct standards set forth by the Society of Motion Picture and Television Engineers (SMPTE) for proper video presentation.

If most of your viewing is done during the day, it is imperative that you do everything possible to eliminate as much of the stray light entering the room. This would entail shutting all blinds in the direction that allows the least amount of light in, closing all curtains, shutting all doors, and of course turning off all the lights. In many rooms, however, this is simply not going to be enough to approximate the desired blackout viewing conditions. One option would be to make cardboard cutouts that can be fitted over the windows. This is an inexpensive and simple solution that will turn any bright room into a video friendly environment. Another option would be to get light-blocking curtains. There are literally thousands that will work with just about any decor. I especially like the thick dark velvet ones which always remind me of being in a theater! Another similar approach would be to get light-blocking shades. Here again you will have a huge selection to choose from. And for those interested in pursuing the best option of all, there are a number of companies that offer motorized remote controllable shades that run up and down on a track that form an impenetrable seal for a total cave-like effect. As you can image, they are not cheap but man are they ever cool! Stewart Film Screen makes such a product which they call Ambience Cinema Shade. These shades can be custom made to fit any size window and are available in a number of different colors. They can even be custom printed with any image such as movie posters of your favorite films or the pattern of the wall paper in the room!

Not all light in the room is bad however. In fact, the right type of light, with the right intensity, in the right location, can actually be quite beneficial. The issue arises with the types of light that are commonly used in our homes. For one, they are usually too bright and are often placed on an end table in front of the screen. As a result, colors will get washed out, shadow detail will diminish, screen reflections abound, and dynamic range goes out the window (no pun intended!). But another thing occurs which you may not be aware of. Your perception of the colors will also become skewed by the unique spectral characteristics of the light under which you are viewing your display. So depending on the type of bulb that you are using and its age, everything may have a reddish, bluish, or greenish tint. It therefore goes without saying that typical room lighting should be turned off for any type of serious viewing.

IDEAL-LUME BIAS LIGHTING

As mentioned earlier, there is only one light which is acceptable for use in a home theater environment and that would be the Ideal-Lume Bias Light by Cinema Quest inc. The unit comprises of a slender T5 fluorescent fixture, an electronic ballast, a low wattage T5 bulb, a rotating mechanical baffle tube to regulate light output, and velcro/screws for mounting purposes. What differentiates this light over what you would normally have in your living room is that the bulb itself is the same color temperature as your display should be set to (D6500) and has a very high Color Rendering Index (CRI) of about 90 (out of 100) as well as an excellent Spectral Power Distribution (SPD). In other words, this is an exceedingly neutral light that will not adversely impact your set's picture. But what is also of paramount importance is the location of the light. It needs to be placed behind the TV, horizontally, and usually on the back of the display facing the back wall. The rule of thumb is to have the backlighting be around 10% of the peak light output of your display. Digital Video Essentials (DVE) has a test pattern which they call "Ambient Light Reference" (Title 12, Chapter 16) that can assist you with this.

Once mounted correctly, the additional light produced by the Ideal-Lume will occupy that part of your field of vision which would normally be occupied by a large movie screen. This in turn relaxes or biases your iris by not having it open fully during a dark scene or close during a very bright scene. This constant opening and closing causes eye fatigue for some people which explains why so many like to have lights on in the first place! By the way, an added plus with a bias light is that it will also improve perceived contrast ratio which is particularly beneficial on digital displays whose black levels are not as "black" as the best CRT monitors. Models start at around $45.00 making the Ideal-Lume one of the best home theater deals ever!

MUNSELL NEUTRAL VALUE SCALE

Another often overlooked component that will have a tremendous impact on how you will perceive images on a display is the choice of wall coloring directly behind it. The last thing that you want to see is a bias-light illuminated orange wall while watching a movie. Talk about distracting! Plus, any color surrounding another will influence the way that color is perceived unless the surrounding color is of a neutral shade. According to the "SMPTE RECOMMENDED PRACTICE: Critical Viewing Conditions For Evaluation of Color Television Pictures" surface (wall) reflectance of less than 10% of the peak luminance value of the monitor should be used for room coloring. In the video world, these would consist of tones taken from the Munsell Neutral Value Scale . Ideally, we would view our displays in a black windowless room. But since most of us do not have dedicated media rooms and tend to value our marriages, this is not usually an option. So if at all possible, paint the wall directly behind your TV a dark neutral gray. But it certainly will not hurt to the ask the boss if you can get away with black! But seriously, the fact remains that even if you were to use a light neutral gray, this would still be a much better choice over white or yellow. If, however, painting is simply not possible, then consider having a dark gray or black curtain which can be pulled closed behind your TV or perhaps one than can be rolled down behind the display as an alternative.

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post #294 of 2944 Old 08-24-2006, 06:38 AM
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Per that example of "color banding", then just how is that different (other the the chroma part) from when one sees the same on a grey or black image (forgot the exact name)? Notice the center of the pic.
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post #295 of 2944 Old 08-24-2006, 06:38 AM
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Can anyone post pictures of the cabinet? All the pictures I can find online are the same generic picture with a different image background displayed, =-(

I'll ask klac to verify that this is identical to the cabinet he owns. These were taken in January at CES.
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post #296 of 2944 Old 08-24-2006, 06:40 AM
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I have seen a couple of different cabinet styles between the 87, 87, 88 and 79 models.

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post #297 of 2944 Old 08-24-2006, 07:23 AM
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I brought my set home last night and noticed color banding right away. It was horrible. How could a TV with a problem this obvious make it out to customers?
I tried playing with the different modes such as dynamic, standard, movie, and custom.
To me, the movie mode really changed the color or tone (sorry, not an expert on terminology).
Is there a way in movie mode to make the colors normal?
When I went into movie mode it looked like everything had a hint of brown in it...kinda like Oh Brother Where Art Thou.
Anyone know exactly what movie mode does?

I'm a little disappointed in the fact that this set has a bunch of modes which are busted.
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post #298 of 2944 Old 08-24-2006, 07:26 AM
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I don't want to start any rumors, but I think I may have saw some rainbows this morning when watching Discovery HD Theater through my cable box hooked up w/ component cables. It was a black background showing a computer generated satellite that had some antennas coming off of it. When the satellite was rotating through space the antenna was fine when it was vertical, but it got worse and worse as it went to 45 degrees, then got better as it went to horizontal. The rainbows weren't like other DLP rainbows that I saw (and returned a 62" mitsu because of). They were more like flickering and I could see them plain as day. In other DLPs I had to move my eyes fast across the screen or move my head. So this may mean that it is part of the signal from my cable box. But who knows...I thought that the color banding may have been an issue with the signal too until I came on here and saw otherwise.
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post #299 of 2944 Old 08-24-2006, 07:28 AM
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Per phone calls to their respective companies departemnts; according to Best Buy, this set will only be offered at the upscale (?) Magnolia stores (in afluent surburbs). And according CC, they arent even planning on selling the set.
At the cost a a 50" Plasma, it's no wonder why. Less money, takes up less warehouse space and easier to ship & deliver.

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post #300 of 2944 Old 08-24-2006, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by FunkyELF View Post

I don't want to start any rumors, but I think I may have saw some rainbows this morning when watching Discovery HD Theater through my cable box hooked up w/ component cables. It was a black background showing a computer generated satellite that had some antennas coming off of it. When the satellite was rotating through space the antenna was fine when it was vertical, but it got worse and worse as it went to 45 degrees, then got better as it went to horizontal. The rainbows weren't like other DLP rainbows that I saw (and returned a 62" mitsu because of). They were more like flickering and I could see them plain as day. In other DLPs I had to move my eyes fast across the screen or move my head. So this may mean that it is part of the signal from my cable box. But who knows...I thought that the color banding may have been an issue with the signal too until I came on here and saw otherwise.

Why don't you post a picture of what you're seeing? That way others who have the set can compare (you may have a lemon). Just a thought.
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