Samsung HLS-5679W LED DLP Owners Thread (*NO PRICE TALK) - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 2941 Old 08-25-2006, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrdnyquist View Post

How does Samsung deal with firmware updates? Will it be possible to upgrade firmware in these sets down the road?

Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

So far, Samsung has offered a firmware update one time and it involved replacing the digital board.

There is no indication that Samsung is going to change that policy this year. Maybe 2007.

I have not a TV but in the service manual on page 3-26 is described a "wiselink" USB terminal for a software/firmware upgrade.

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post #362 of 2941 Old 08-25-2006, 04:05 PM
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For those of you that have the set connected thru A/V, S-video, or component(RGB) Film mode may be something to look at, I was able to enter Film Mode thru my only connection via S-Video from the STB from the DVD player/recorder and was able to eliminate color banding, since by definition I have to downscale to 480i. I was able to do the same from OTA 480i feeds thru the RF air antenna. I don't have time to rewire this baby now but if any of you guys could try feeding 480i from the STB and is already hooked up with the above, enter Film Mode and see what happens.
Thanks.
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post #363 of 2941 Old 08-25-2006, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdmoser View Post

I have not a TV but in the service manual on page 3-26 is described a "wiselink" USB terminal for a software/firmware upgrade.

You beat me to the post! I just saw the "software upgrade" page too.

So other things that stood out to me:


* For those that ask if 1080p unscaling DVD player is better than 1080p of the tv -

Compare dvd player's chip specs with these:

Samsung S5H2201X01 (Albatross) HD-TV Audio/Video Decoder
Samsung SDP51 (NR, Film Dectection Processing, "video quality improvement", 10 bit processing)
Samsung SDP52 (MPEG Noise Reduction, Color Transition Improvement, Jagging Remover, etc.)
Samsung TC90103 (3D Comb & Video Decoder, has 3L Comb too)

The manual shows the benefits of the S5H2201+SDP51/52 combination. Do we see it with DNIe though?

Of course some of the above are applied even if an unscaling DVD player outputs 1080p but it or the tv could be better than the other. It is noted in the service manual that these 'chips' are "designed to provide a cost-effective, low power size and high performance ... for HD-TV, SD-TV, STB applications."


* The manual lists the power consumption at 230W and the weight at 79.37lbs. This set seems to get lighter and lighter the a see different weight listings. I'm sure the guys who hauled mine in may disagree.


I know enough about electronics to know I don't know enough to make use of the schematics but disassembly and assembly are straight forward on all the major components.

Still have some abbreviations that I don't know.
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post #364 of 2941 Old 08-25-2006, 04:31 PM
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Some other things:

In the service manual, it shows the following defaults that my TV's service menu didn't:

DDP1011: FPGA Select - xDH3 (mine was xHD4 I believe, will check when I get home). The TV is listed as having xHD4.

SP (Smooth Picture ) Actuator: DB Gain - 1 My set was at 3.


Some more interesting stuff (maybe interesting, maybe not, LED control?):

SDP52: BLU/GRN/RED_C_COEFF - Blue/Green/Red Contrast Gain
SDP52: BLU/GRN/RED_COEFF - Blue/Green/Red Bright Level
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post #365 of 2941 Old 08-25-2006, 04:45 PM
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Unfortunately, the set is not available in central Alabama. Just curious, did you buy the set from the internet or locally?
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post #366 of 2941 Old 08-25-2006, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley Hester View Post

Some other things:

In the service manual, it shows the following defaults that my TV's service menu didn't:

DDP1011: FPGA Select - xDH3 (mine was xHD4 I believe, will check when I get home). The TV is listed as having xHD4.

SP (Smooth Picture ) Actuator: DB Gain - 1 My set was at 3.


Some more interesting stuff (maybe interesting, maybe not, LED control?):

SDP52: BLU/GRN/RED_C_COEFF - Blue/Green/Red Contrast Gain
SDP52: BLU/GRN/RED_COEFF - Blue/Green/Red Bright Level

We now have enough information to be truly dangerous!

I thought you might find item 52 on page 3-10 (Sub Brightness) interesting.
This could be the adjustment for the " bright blacks".

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post #367 of 2941 Old 08-25-2006, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomtb2 View Post

Unfortunately, the set is not available in central Alabama. Just curious, did you buy the set from the internet or locally?

Pre-ordered through Crutchfield on-line back in June. It was to be released soon after I placed the order but got delayed.
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post #368 of 2941 Old 08-25-2006, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdmoser View Post

We now have enough information to be truly dangerous!

I thought you might find item 52 on page 3-10 (Sub Brightness) interesting.
This could be the adjustment for the " bright blacks".

I believe, but I'm not 100% sure, that I tried that setting. I believe it deals with the darker parts of a scene. Unfortunately, I'm still left with dark gray when everything is dialed down to nothing.

I'll be taking the screen off and applying the duvetyne as soon as I get off from work. With it being dark outside, it will be easy to see if it as an impact or not. I will report back here either way of course.
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post #369 of 2941 Old 08-25-2006, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdmoser View Post

We now have enough information to be truly dangerous!

I thought you might find item 52 on page 3-10 (Sub Brightness) interesting.
This could be the adjustment for the " bright blacks".

Your analysis is correct. You guys are dangerous. Sub Brightness is not going to change the limiting light output from this display. It is the zero adjustment for that inputs electronics at a given resolution. It is also common for data listed in service manuals to be incorrect. I would be very careful or stay out.
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post #370 of 2941 Old 08-25-2006, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umr View Post

Your analysis is correct. You guys are dangerous. Sub Brightness is not going to change the limiting light output from this display. It is the zero adjustment for that inputs electronics at a given resolution. It is also common for data listed in service manuals to be incorrect. I would be very careful or stay out.

I hear you loud and clear. I haven't been making any adjustments that I haven't been 100% sure of like over-scan, h,v-position, etc. I will admit to experimenting with a few but only in the Service Menu and returning their value to its original.
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post #371 of 2941 Old 08-25-2006, 09:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luidoly View Post

For those of you that have the set connected thru A/V, S-video, or component(RGB) Film mode may be something to look at, I was able to enter Film Mode thru my only connection via S-Video from the STB from the DVD player/recorder and was able to eliminate color banding, since by definition I have to downscale to 480i. I was able to do the same from OTA 480i feeds thru the RF air antenna. I don't have time to rewire this baby now but if any of you guys could try feeding 480i from the STB and is already hooked up with the above, enter Film Mode and see what happens.
Thanks.

I tried Film Mode using Dynamic, Standard, and Movie modes using the S-Video input from my Dish 301. I believe that color banding was reduced in Dynamic and Standard, maybe by 50%, but it's difficult to say for certain. I even kind of liked the picture in Dynamic mode with the Film Mode on. But in the end I still prefer Movie Mode w/ Film Mode off.
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post #372 of 2941 Old 08-26-2006, 03:14 AM
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Applied duvetyne to all gray and tan surfaces and it did NOT have an impact on the precieved black level in a dark room. The LEDs are just throwing too much light to the screen. Everything I've reviewed in the service manual indicates that the LEDs are set as low as they can be regarding light output. Unless some tech can find a physical tweak, the black level will always appear gray in a dark room.

Are there any screens similar to the one the HL-S5679W uses that is darker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley Hester View Post

I believe, but I'm not 100% sure, that I tried that setting. I believe it deals with the darker parts of a scene. Unfortunately, I'm still left with dark gray when everything is dialed down to nothing.

I'll be taking the screen off and applying the duvetyne as soon as I get off from work. With it being dark outside, it will be easy to see if it as an impact or not. I will report back here either way of course.

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post #373 of 2941 Old 08-26-2006, 05:04 AM
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post #374 of 2941 Old 08-26-2006, 06:46 AM
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It has been my experience that preceived black levels have noticably improved after a professional calibration. That said I have yet to see a digital display where in a totally darkened room the screen looked black. Adding a bit of light to the viewing environment can make a big difference.

Regarding messing around in the SM, I'm sure that many of the options listed interact with each other. So unless you are trained and have the proper equipment, I don't see how you can do much good fiddling around in the SM. BTW- the Service Manuals do have mistakes and the default settings listed often don't match the settings on the set from the factory.

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post #375 of 2941 Old 08-26-2006, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klac View Post

I tried Film Mode using Dynamic, Standard, and Movie modes using the S-Video input from my Dish 301. I believe that color banding was reduced in Dynamic and Standard, maybe by 50%, but it's difficult to say for certain. I even kind of liked the picture in Dynamic mode with the Film Mode on. But in the end I still prefer Movie Mode w/ Film Mode off.

Thank you Klac, I saw an improvement also, When you watch non-HD, non-PPV movies from the STB satellite ie...like HBO, Showtime etc... are they 480i ??? because they are the worst for color banding.
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post #376 of 2941 Old 08-26-2006, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TWD View Post

It has been my experience that preceived black levels have noticably improved after a professional calibration. That said I have yet to see a digital display where in a totally darkened room the screen looked black. Adding a bit of light to the viewing environment can make a big difference.

Regarding messing around in the SM, I'm sure that many of the options listed interact with each other. So unless you are trained and have the proper equipment, I don't see how you can do much good fiddling around in the SM. BTW- the Service Manuals do have mistakes and the default settings listed often don't match the settings on the set from the factory.

I have found, in my very limited experience, that you and umr are correct. The HL-S5679W is obviously a modified copy of a previous model. The LED exploded view diagram is attached to the very end. Several settings regarding the bulb are still listed and several of the defaults are different (maybe half a dozen or more) which were probably true for the tv this service manual was copied from or based on.

Luckily, I have my own list I created before were I documented on the settings of my set and they are pretty much the same except for over-scan and v-position.

P.S. the service manual does compare the HL-S5679W to the HL-R5668W under "Specifications Analysis" and maybe the settings were copied from it. For example the FPGA default of xHD3 (like the 5668 has) when in fact the 5679 as a xHD4 and was found set accordingly.
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post #377 of 2941 Old 08-26-2006, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umr View Post

You could always add an ND filter to lower the light output.

What is that umr? I'll try anything to get that extra bit of light that still leaks out when all the tiny mirrors are in their off position.
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post #378 of 2941 Old 08-26-2006, 10:07 AM
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Here are some interior pictures before and after the duvetyne installation. Remember, no need for this set.
LL
LL
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post #379 of 2941 Old 08-26-2006, 10:41 AM
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wesley, you have balls of steel....
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post #380 of 2941 Old 08-26-2006, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umr View Post

Your analysis is correct. You guys are dangerous. Sub Brightness is not going to change the limiting light output from this display. It is the zero adjustment for that inputs electronics at a given resolution. It is also common for data listed in service manuals to be incorrect. I would be very careful or stay out.


DUH! I can't get in trouble I don't have a set yet!

The service manual described this sub brightness item as "Brightness adjustment for the low-light parts of the screen."

I have to admit I don't understand " It is the zero adjustment for that inputs electronics at a given resolution."

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post #381 of 2941 Old 08-26-2006, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley Hester View Post

What is that umr? I'll try anything to get that extra bit of light that still leaks out when all the tiny mirrors are in their off position.

A Neutral Density (ND) filter is commonly used to reduce the light for photography. The same thing can be used in these applications. You just need to figure out how big a filter you need, how to install it and what material will withstand the temperature of your chosen location. Typically you would mount this above the projection lens. You of course would do this at your own risk.
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post #382 of 2941 Old 08-26-2006, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley Hester View Post

What is that umr? I'll try anything to get that extra bit of light that still leaks out when all the tiny mirrors are in their off position.


Wesley,

Here's a link for doing it on a Panasonic set. Since you've already gotten yours open, it shouldn't be that tough.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...eutral+density

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post #383 of 2941 Old 08-26-2006, 02:44 PM
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umr and JimP,

Thank you both for the great info. That will be my next step going forward.

Jimp: Thanks for the great link. The pictures provide by JoePerri are exactly what I'm seeing and exactly what I'm hoping to achieve. Umr, I see your posts in there too!

Looking back, I wish I had tried this first.
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post #384 of 2941 Old 08-26-2006, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley Hester View Post

umr and JimP,

Thank you both for the great info. That will be my next step going forward.

Jimp: Thanks for the great link. The pictures provide by JoePerri are exactly what I'm seeing and exactly what I'm hoping to achieve. Umr, I see your posts in there too!

Looking back, I wish I had tried this first.

It is a much better tweak than what you attempted.
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post #385 of 2941 Old 08-26-2006, 03:47 PM
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Quote:


That will be my next step going forward.

To boldy go where no man has gone before.......

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post #386 of 2941 Old 08-26-2006, 05:48 PM
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I would think that the LED DLP would have better blacks due to it not having a lamp ON all the time; similar to a three gun CRT.

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post #387 of 2941 Old 08-26-2006, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TWD View Post

I would think that the LED DLP would have better blacks due to it not having a lamp ON all the time; similar to a three gun CRT.

That's a good point. I don't know where the light is coming from when the screen goes black (like just before credits roll, etc.) if the LEDs could turn completely off. If they turn completely off or not I don't know. There was mention of phlat light too that may contribute too.
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post #388 of 2941 Old 08-26-2006, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TWD View Post

To boldy go where no man has gone before.......

The last movie I watched on my CRT RPTV before my brother picked it up was V for Vendetta on DVD which is 2.20:1 and has many dark scenes and it looked great.

My goal is to get this set closer to that level.

Looks like I'll be getting this soon:

Gel Filter
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post #389 of 2941 Old 08-26-2006, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TWD View Post

I would think that the LED DLP would have better blacks due to it not having a lamp ON all the time; similar to a three gun CRT.

It sounds to me like the LED lamp circuit is simpler than that. It is probably timed like the color wheel to come on in some kind of fixed sequence. They would then rely on the DLP turning off to simulate black which would give similar black level performance to a UHP lamp design.
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post #390 of 2941 Old 08-26-2006, 09:27 PM
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Not 'yet' an owner, but I have sat with this TV at magnolia for awhile, so I can give some real hands on experience. I also currently have a 1997 Proscan 32" CRT that I have not replaced because I didn't want to loose PQ for size. I will be buying this set now that I have done some homework.

I have an eye condition called rotational nystagmus (eyes involuntarily oscillate in a clockwise/counter clockwise direction) which makes me extremely susceptible to RBE's. I can see them within seconds on a DLP set regardless of the amount of action on the screen. I could not see any RBE's with this set. This is the primary reason I will be purchasing it, as I love DLP technology for reasons I'm sure you all know, but could not put up with RBE's.

The black levels on this set are not so good, but.. they aren't horrible. TWD mentioned they should be able to turn LED's off completely and make this a non issue. Umr assumes the lights are timed in a sequence.. but why? I'm going to theorize that this set is clearly a traditional lamp set reverse engineered to work with LED's and not a set designed from scratch. If the circuitry on the set was designed to work originally with a 110v a/c current for a lamp, that voltage would have to rectified to 12v LED's, which would necessitate capacitors in place to charge to reduce diode ripple and prevent flickering. This would create a 100ms or so turn on time for LED's, potentially making it impossible to turn them off for black levels during action sequences. I'm picky, so this is unacceptable and i will have a gel filter installed.

Color Banding looked the same as the other 1080p lamp based Samsung right next to it. Noticeable on SD and HD feeds from D*. It is clearly a product of signal bit rate compounded with the Distortion and Noise Injected Electronically circuitry, and Samsungs de-interlacing/scaling circuitry. Those of you complaining have you compared to other 1080p Samsungs? or just the interlaced models? It reminded me of 2001: A Space Odyssey DVD, but something I expect for highly compressed/low bit rate images. Can someone with a nifty scalar, send a 1080p signal of D* HD to the monitor and then bypass your scaler and compare Samsung's circuitry to an external device? If an outside 1080p signal shows color banding with DNie off, then there's a problem.. not a showstopper, just something to be improved upon.

Pro:

no RBE
movie mode looks great (although I preferred warm1 instead of normal?)
long life expectancy (bulb life, accepts 1080p already, glass can be replaced cheaply unlike other technologies)
Quick On/Off times
whisper quiet
minimal heat emitted

Con:

Cabinet (piano black should be matte IMO, and a slim bevel)
questionable scaling circuitry adding to color banding issues
DNie
Black Levels should be better given the technology
Big low power button that can not be locked out (we have toddlers)
cost
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