Just Got the Toshiba 62HM196 (First Impressions) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 343 Old 08-22-2006, 03:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Moved from a great Pioneer 643HD5 to the Toshiba and have a few quick impressions. Colour fidelity and black levels are superb and the best I have seen in any DLP so far. Brightness and color temp are ludicrous out of the box but I have it dialed in now. Only possible problem is 480i signals through componenet have some macro blocking but I assume it's how I have it hooked up. Will try s-vdieo as the SD connection as it looked much better on my Pioneer. Any questions or suggestions please feel free. For the money this set is really a steal.
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post #2 of 343 Old 08-22-2006, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou View Post

Moved from a great Pioneer 643HD5 to the Toshiba and have a few quick impressions. Colour fidelity and black levels are superb and the best I have seen in any DLP so far. Brightness and color temp are ludicrous out of the box but I have it dialed in now. Only possible problem is 480i signals through componenet have some macro blocking but I assume it's how I have it hooked up. Will try s-vdieo as the SD connection as it looked much better on my Pioneer. Any questions or suggestions please feel free. For the money this set is really a steal.

How do those black levels look in total darkness on a totally black screen (hint: set the lamp mode to low power for the best black levels in the dark)? How clost are they to your Pioneer? I may get a different set instead of moving my SXRD down to the home theater i'm building in the basement and the 72HMX196 is on my list to look at.
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post #3 of 343 Old 08-22-2006, 09:49 PM
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Im looking at the 72 inch set myself the only thing that gets to me a bit is there is no 1080 P input but you really need 1.3 Hdmi any way for HD DD and better rez at least they say lol....I might get the set tomarrow if I do I will post pictures and my mini review.............Tj8xp

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post #4 of 343 Old 08-23-2006, 02:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

How do those black levels look in total darkness on a totally black screen (hint: set the lamp mode to low power for the best black levels in the dark)? How clost are they to your Pioneer? I may get a different set instead of moving my SXRD down to the home theater i'm building in the basement and the 72HMX196 is on my list to look at.

There is very, very little difference. It appears that there finally is a DLP that does blacks as well or almost as well as a CRT RPTV. That was the one thing that had been holding me back from picking up a new set.
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post #5 of 343 Old 08-23-2006, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou View Post

Moved from a great Pioneer 643HD5 to the Toshiba and have a few quick impressions. Colour fidelity and black levels are superb and the best I have seen in any DLP so far. Brightness and color temp are ludicrous out of the box but I have it dialed in now. Only possible problem is 480i signals through componenet have some macro blocking but I assume it's how I have it hooked up. Will try s-vdieo as the SD connection as it looked much better on my Pioneer. Any questions or suggestions please feel free. For the money this set is really a steal.

Can you compare how the PQ is on the Standard Def channels vs the Pioneer?

I also have the Pioneer 643HD5 and love this TV because of the great SD PQ it produces in the stretch mode. However I cant stand the glare on this set and I am looking at upgrading to the 70+ inch set. However, I still watch alot of standard Def channels such as the Golf channel, Lifetime(wife), Animal Planet and the Home Impr shows, so the Sd PQ still has to be good. The ABC, CBS etc channels I plan to watch thru the digital channels so I know these will be OK
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post #6 of 343 Old 08-23-2006, 11:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMELVIN View Post

Can you compare how the PQ is on the Standard Def channels vs the Pioneer?

I also have the Pioneer 643HD5 and love this TV because of the great SD PQ it produces in the stretch mode. However I cant stand the glare on this set and I am looking at upgrading to the 70+ inch set. However, I still watch alot of standard Def channels such as the Golf channel, Lifetime(wife), Animal Planet and the Home Impr shows, so the Sd PQ still has to be good. The ABC, CBS etc channels I plan to watch thru the digital channels so I know these will be OK


No comparison at all. I loved the Pio's stretch modes and SD PQ but the Toshiba is in a different league.
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post #7 of 343 Old 08-23-2006, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou View Post

Moved from a great Pioneer 643HD5 to the Toshiba and have a few quick impressions. Colour fidelity and black levels are superb and the best I have seen in any DLP so far. Brightness and color temp are ludicrous out of the box but I have it dialed in now. Only possible problem is 480i signals through componenet have some macro blocking but I assume it's how I have it hooked up. Will try s-vdieo as the SD connection as it looked much better on my Pioneer. Any questions or suggestions please feel free. For the money this set is really a steal.


I am also in the market for this set 62mx196 - HHgreed - ( as soon as my wife gets her hands out my pocket)

I was loking at the Hatachi 65f59 saw it for 1500.00 but the dlp was sharp and nice good wow factor for the soon to be purchased HD DVD.

I have been told by readers here that RP CRT have a better picture ( if calibrated right )

Can you give me your honest opnion on the dlp vs RP CRT sets.

As i will be getting Dish as well as HD DVD as soon as the loot $ is there.

THX


PS I also have xbox360

Blu ray is the best Blah, blah, blah.
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post #8 of 343 Old 08-23-2006, 01:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hd nOOb View Post

I am also in the market for this set 62mx196 - HHgreed - ( as soon as my wife gets her hands out my pocket)

I was loking at the Hatachi 65f59 saw it for 1500.00 but the dlp was sharp and nice good wow factor for the soon to be purchased HD DVD.

I have been told by readers here that RP CRT have a better picture ( if calibrated right )

Can you give me your honest opnion on the dlp vs RP CRT sets.

As i will be getting Dish as well as HD DVD as soon as the loot $ is there.

THX


PS I also have xbox360

Before this model I NEVER would have given up my CRT RPTV but at this point I can see no advantage, other than reliability perhaps, to the Pioneer over the Toshiba and the Pioneer, IMHO, is as good as a CRT bases RP gets. The Toshiba is truly superb and the proverbial steal for the money.
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post #9 of 343 Old 08-23-2006, 01:57 PM
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What's the difference between the 62HM196 and the 195?

PSN: dsanders16
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post #10 of 343 Old 08-23-2006, 04:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dsanders16 View Post

What's the difference between the 62HM196 and the 195?


One model year and updated circuitry. I tried the 195 and couldn't live with it. Major improvements in black level.
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post #11 of 343 Old 08-23-2006, 06:54 PM
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I picked up the 72MX196 today and think the picture is really good .....The only bad that I can see is that they did not include 1080P inputs but for now who cares there is none worth watching lol....

The picture has a advance Color Adjuster so IFS guys will be able to go to town and get the color perfect....Dark shots have good contrast and the set is nice and detailed.....I had the HP 6580 and think its right on par with it....I got this because I want a 1.3 HDMI set don the road and the price on these guys just can not be beat ...Also I hate the Dumbo Ears on the SXRD sets...I also see that a 72MZ196 is comming out hmm....

So I will live with this for 6 months then give it a home downstairs....You should check it out tho its a really nice one from them this year........Tj8xp............

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post #12 of 343 Old 08-23-2006, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou View Post

One model year and updated circuitry. I tried the 195 and couldn't live with it. Major improvements in black level.

That is great to hear. I typically question peoples opinions of black levels. Especially after last year someone on AVS said that you could barely tell that the SXRD was turned on in a dark room. That's not the case at all. I would describe the SXRD as a light black in the dark which is far from pitch black. I'm assuming the 195 models were close to the SXRDs (XBR1) and if there is a major improvement then the 62/72HMX196 will be at the top of my list. I'd like the have a 1080P input but I'd MUCH prefer deeper black levels over a 1080P input.
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post #13 of 343 Old 08-23-2006, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj8xp View Post

I picked up the 72MX196 today and think the picture is really good .....The only bad that I can see is that they did not include 1080P inputs but for now who cares there is none worth watching lol....

The picture has a advance Color Adjuster so IFS guys will be able to go to town and get the color perfect....Dark shots have good contrast and the set is nice and detailed.....I had the HP 6580 and think its right on par with it....I got this because I want a 1.3 HDMI set don the road and the price on these guys just can not be beat ...Also I hate the Dumbo Ears on the SXRD sets...I also see that a 72MZ196 is comming out hmm....

So I will live with this for 6 months then give it a home downstairs....You should check it out tho its a really nice one from them this year........Tj8xp............

Can you get an IFS person to come to your home any where?

Im in columbus, Ohio

or is this something that you order when you purchase your tv?

Blu ray is the best Blah, blah, blah.
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post #14 of 343 Old 08-24-2006, 02:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

That is great to hear. I typically question peoples opinions of black levels. Especially after last year someone on AVS said that you could barely tell that the SXRD was turned on in a dark room. That's not the case at all. I would describe the SXRD as a light black in the dark which is far from pitch black. I'm assuming the 195 models were close to the SXRDs (XBR1) and if there is a major improvement then the 62/72HMX196 will be at the top of my list. I'd like the have a 1080P input but I'd MUCH prefer deeper black levels over a 1080P input.


You really should check one out. Right now they're a well kept secret.
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post #15 of 343 Old 08-24-2006, 03:05 PM
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Zissou, have you tried changing the levels on the dynamic black (iris) to see how that effects the black levels? Also how much difference do you see in black levels between bright vs. economy lamp settings? I saw a 62MX196 today, and it did look nice.
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post #16 of 343 Old 08-24-2006, 03:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by f300v10 View Post

Zissou, have you tried changing the levels on the dynamic black (iris) to see how that effects the black levels? Also how much difference do you see in black levels between bright vs. economy lamp settings? I saw a 62MX196 today, and it did look nice.

The iris isn't changeable and I run at low power for the bulb. Not a huge difference but I believe a good picture has to come from solid black performance and the low setting is a little better.
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post #17 of 343 Old 08-24-2006, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Zissou View Post

The iris isn't changeable and I run at low power for the bulb. Not a huge difference but I believe a good picture has to come from solid black performance and the low setting is a little better.

I just downloaded the owners manual, and found that 'dynamic contrast' was not what I had thought it was. I was hopeing it was a way to tune the iris, but as you said its not.
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post #18 of 343 Old 08-24-2006, 03:27 PM - Thread Starter
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I just downloaded the owners manual, and found that 'dynamic contrast' was not what I had thought it was. I was hopeing it was a way to tune the iris, but as you said its not.

It really doesn't need tuning at all. The dynamic contrast however looks like hell.
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post #19 of 343 Old 08-24-2006, 03:32 PM
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What did you adjust to get the color temp right? Are you using the warm setting?
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post #20 of 343 Old 08-24-2006, 03:33 PM - Thread Starter
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What did you adjust to get the color temp right? Are you using the warm setting?

Warm for all inputs. The slight blue cast of last years is very much tamed in the 6 models.
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post #21 of 343 Old 08-24-2006, 07:34 PM
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We got one of the 62's at our shop today and I spent some time calibrating it (I've been doing ISF for about 10 years). It replaced the 195 that was sitting in the same system until last week. I also did a new Toshiba 56 yesterday.

I would say it is a small but noticeable improvement over last years. More natural looking and slightly better contrast.

The service menu acts a little funny while adjusting values and the screen on both of them was no where near centered (about 3-4% high and to the right). Also the grey scale was off QUITE a bit on both, even on the warm setting. Don't fool yourself about it being close enough, just get it fixed.

Also about the black levels, they are excellent for these type of sets but you have to be kidding me about being as good as a properly adjusted CRT. Every once in a while I do an old Toshiba 480/1080 CRT and I'm reminded how far we have to go with black level and colour to get back to where we were 5 years ago. The Fujitsu hanging on the wall in the shop comes closer to the black out of a CRT.

All in all it's a great set that I could happily live with.

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post #22 of 343 Old 08-24-2006, 08:02 PM
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so then there isnt a night and day diff in black levels? if this doesnt have 1080p in then i may jsut get a 56mx195 deeply discounted
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post #23 of 343 Old 08-26-2006, 02:50 PM
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I am amazed that this tv is getting so little attention, Toshiba has always had a great reputation for reliability and for having a great picture. The price is great, almost too good to be true but it still gets no attention on this forum. Is it entirely based on the past reputation of the failed bulbs or what??

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post #24 of 343 Old 08-26-2006, 02:59 PM
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Value is a concept easily lost when you can't really talk about price. Bulb issues aren't going to disappear from peoples minds very soon either. I still have yet to get a straight answer on if its been fixed in the 195 with the replacement bulbs or not.
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post #25 of 343 Old 08-26-2006, 05:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irfan View Post

so then there isnt a night and day diff in black levels? if this doesnt have 1080p in then i may jsut get a 56mx195 deeply discounted

There is a very large difference. A buddy with the A20 and A10 stopped by today. He sat for 1 movie then went off to buy the Toshiba. His Sonys are for sale.
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post #26 of 343 Old 08-27-2006, 08:15 AM
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I too am wondering if the difference justifies buying the 196 as opposed to the deeply discounted 195.

Mr. Sweet seems to think that the difference is fairly minor after calibration. Does any one else have any input on that question?

Wad
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post #27 of 343 Old 08-27-2006, 12:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by wad06 View Post

I too am wondering if the difference justifies buying the 196 as opposed to the deeply discounted 195.

Mr. Sweet seems to think that the difference is fairly minor after calibration. Does any one else have any input on that question?

Wad

All I can say is I could not live with the black level of the 195 and returned it.
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post #28 of 343 Old 08-27-2006, 02:35 PM
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I have the 195 series. That black level on it is not that bad at all. However is has a lot of SSE and color banding. Do you notice this on your 196?

LawDawg
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post #29 of 343 Old 08-27-2006, 02:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cjlawson View Post

I have the 195 series. That black level on it is not that bad at all. However is has a lot of SSE and color banding. Do you notice this on your 196?

Not an issue at all on SD, HD, analogue or digital.
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post #30 of 343 Old 08-27-2006, 04:40 PM
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Having calibrated quite a few of the 195 sets in the same spot/system as the 196 now sits I can say it really isn't a night/day difference. And as far as black levels go, I'm not really sure the 196 is much better in that regard. Like I said I do believe it is better in contrast (mainly highlight retention and maybe a little deeper blacks) and it does appear to be a little smoother (more linear) through out the image. As I said, more natural looking.


The OP and I may be talking at cross purposes here a little bit. I made NO evaluation of the TV's performance pre gray scale calibration (nor do I ever do this). So if you are comparing non gray scale calibrated sets he may well be right.

All I can talk about is the post calibration results. Believe me when I say none of these sets are even close out of the box and without fixing the GS I can see little benefit in discussing the finer points of image quality. Yes it matters that much.

You would be MUCH MUCH better off saving some money on the 195 and getting it calibrated/gray scale adjusted. The difference between a GS adjusted 195 and a non GS adjusted 196 WOULD be a night and day difference.

Hope this helps.

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