Official Sony XBR2 (60" & 70") Owner's Thread - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 12056 Old 10-04-2006, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astro777 View Post

Can you post a list of TVs you've worked on in the last month or so? I'm assuming you're talking about the Mits 831, and that's another set I'm considering, so your input would be appreciated. Are you available to offer your opinion in private message, if we do not disclose it on the boards?

What I am talking about is not a display at all. I work on all aspects of home theater and focus on whole experience. Display performance is an important, but single component of that.

I have not worked on the latest Mits, but I am scheduled to this week.
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post #272 of 12056 Old 10-04-2006, 09:35 AM
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come back UMR, we respect your opinions

perhaps, then, you can start a thread on the sets that you have calibrated recently, within the last 6 months or so. that would be great!



Quote:
Originally Posted by umr View Post

I have nothing to say and I will not post my objective opinion. I am still available to work on these displays, but don't expect me to do any comparisons. I have not worked on one of these yet and would offer my first client in Houston a discount. I do offer objective purchase advice to my clients. It will not appear anymore on the open forum.

For example, I looked at a very hyped product yesterday (not this product) and it was truly horrible. This is a relatively expensive product that many people hope will be best in class. Unfortunately, it is far below average in preformance and far above average in price. I could post my measurements and observations in a thread about it, but it will not happen. I have learned my lesson and will only post positive reviews or nothing. You can figure out what I think if I say nothing about a product I have worked on.

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post #273 of 12056 Old 10-04-2006, 09:41 AM
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So does anyone have a good high quality shot of the front of their 60" XBR2? I need to know the space between the dumbo ear speakers and the actual TV. Thanks!

Brett
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post #274 of 12056 Old 10-04-2006, 09:45 AM
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Why didn't the moderator jump in on the threads that insulted UMR and drove him from the forum? I thought their policing of this site keeps things from getting personal. I hope you eventually make it back also UMR. We need more professional hands on opinions and experience from nice guys like yourself.

I just got the 60XBR2 and would love to have it calibrated. I live in Chicago and for a big city, there aren't a lot of ISF folks in the phone book (old school).
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post #275 of 12056 Old 10-04-2006, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umr View Post

I have nothing to say and I will not post my objective opinion. I am still available to work on these displays, but don't expect me to do any comparisons. I have not worked on one of these yet and would offer my first client in Houston a discount. I do offer objective purchase advice to my clients. It will not appear anymore on the open forum.

For example, I looked at a very hyped product yesterday (not this product) and it was truly horrible. This is a relatively expensive product that many people hope will be best in class. Unfortunately, it is far below average in preformance and far above average in price. I could post my measurements and observations in a thread about it, but it will not happen. I have learned my lesson and will only post positive reviews or nothing. You can figure out what I think if I say nothing about a product I have worked on.


i'm not familiar with the issues that caused this reaction, however, i have to say it really sucks when someone trying to help out gets bashed to this point. all of us have to suffer because of the hardheadedness of a few people. umr, please accept my apology for the arseholes, whoever they are. and to those people all i can do is give you this

Let the awe and mystery of a journey unlike any other begin
SharpLC70LE735U,SonyKDSR60XBR2,KlipschSynergyIII,PanasonicDMPDT210,Oppo981,DenonAVR683,Harmony880,MDN v3.2.0-5

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post #276 of 12056 Old 10-04-2006, 09:54 AM
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I'm with everyone else. While I have contributed very little since I've found these forums three years ago, I've learned a ton. I've always appreciated you input and observations, umr, and I've hoped that when I finally bought my HDTV (hopefully the 60XBR2) I could find a way to have you calibrate it.
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post #277 of 12056 Old 10-04-2006, 09:55 AM
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what happened has nothing to do with this thread...

UMR brought to light a certain negative aspect of the A2000. the many buyers of said device were of course upset...finding out that there is a technical negative with their display that they dropeed hard-earned ca$h on. some buyers, in defense of their $ony set, began to attack UMR personally/professionally. a mod probably should have stepped in at that time, but alas, what is done is done.

i don't blame the man one bit, but it does hurt the many supporters with a lack of professional, unbiased opinions.
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post #278 of 12056 Old 10-04-2006, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by godsantagonist View Post

come back UMR, we respect your opinions

Many of us do.

However, some don't. Some people feel so challenged by professional opinion which they wish were otherwise, they are emotionally forced to engage in childish behavior in order to convince themselves that what they want to believe is true. Jeff understandably prefers to simply avoid that.

Also, doing ISF calibrations is how Jeff earns his living. He understandably wants to avoid offending potential customers.

Government Warning: The Attorney General has determined that Federal Regulation may be hazardous to your health
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post #279 of 12056 Old 10-04-2006, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

I just took delivery of the 70 XBR - for those familiar with my posts, you will know this was a swap for the JVC 70 97FH (which was a swap for a thrice-unsuccessfully-repaired 70 FH 96)

I've had only a few minutes to play, but had to post some initial thoughts:

Without even adjusting a thing out of the box, this picture is appreciably better than the 97FH - dare I say I am wowed?

Quick summary

+ bright without subtle blowout of highlights, which the JVC would sometimes exhibit
+ uniformity seems excellent. I have a HD recording of a couple of NY Rangers hockey games on my SA 8300 DVD, and the ice surface remains remarkably linear, where the JVC would show subtle areas oy yellow or orange.
+ Much better black level - when there is black, it is black. There is no faint glow of light like the JVC would exhibit on solid black backgrounds (like the gaps between a show ad a commerical)
+ MUCH BETTER (lack of)SSE than the JVC. The 97FH was better than the 96FH in this respect, but the XBR2 blows the JVC away. A hockey game is a great test for SSE effect, and I noticed really no SSE at all from my viewing distance of about 13 feet. Wit the JVC, I did.
+ Better quality screen than the JVC. Both are the non-reflective screen, but the JVC's always seems to have surface uniformity issues that contributed to the feeling of looking through a dirty window -not the sparkle of SSE, but a dinger look. Subtle, but there. On the Sony, very clean.
- As with the JVC, there is some pincushioning of 4:3 material
- I prefer the black of the JVC to the silver of the Sony
- Sony is deeper, putting the rear of the unit up against my wall (but it's completely open above and all around, so I don't think I will have a heat issue... will I?)
+ On screen menus and features are far advanced vs. the JVC, but will report on that later.

All this was via an HDMI connection from my SA 8300HD DVR/

I have a Mac Book pro that will support the native rez of the display, as well as HD-DVD and Blu-Ray - I will report more when I can, but I'm going away for the weekend and am out this evening, so It may be next week before I can....

I will try and take a photo or two a little later and post...but right now, I am VERY pleased with making the move. Ok, I tingled - there, you got me to say it.

Here are some photos....

http://gallery.avsforum.com/showgall...ppuser/7502673
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post #280 of 12056 Old 10-04-2006, 10:26 AM
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A quick side question.
Do any of you owners (xb1, xb2, A2000) use a backlight?
If so, what do you use (and where might I get one)?

thanks
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post #281 of 12056 Old 10-04-2006, 10:35 AM
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Thanks for posting this, thrang. I'm not a big JVC fan but I'll still be tempted to get an FH97 set because of the pricing, the availability (it's here now), and the cabinet. I thought it looked very nice in the store, which surprised me because I'm not a JVC guy.

So thanks for posting this. My wait will be worth it!
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post #282 of 12056 Old 10-04-2006, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KTTV Images View Post

There is no hard evidence I know of - but I believe they do have new light engines for 2 reasons:

1. They have changed to a new 180 watt bulb because of the need for greater light levels in the 70 inch set. Heat considerations imply change other than just the bulb power.

2. They have used the 180 watt lamp in the 60 inch XBR2 where they could have used the entire old 120 watt setup from the XBR1. Why did they use the same higher powered Lamp -and the same base as the 70 inch (same base dimensions) unless the "new" Light engine is a better alternative?

Note -It is for this reason that I speculate that the new XBR2's may have less of the XBR1 and a2000 field problems we see in the Forums.

KT

Ah yes, the change in base dimensions! I knew about the lamp change, but am just hearing about the cabinet change here in this thread. The puzzle pieces do seem to fit together.

Excellent points. Thank you.

Edit: you may be able to start a profitable new business converting SUGW12 stands to fit the new 60XBR2. Good grief, first Sony designs a cabinet much wider than it needs to be, then they design a stand m-u-c-h wider than the already too-wide tv needs. Or maybe:
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post #283 of 12056 Old 10-04-2006, 10:35 AM
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I am a noob to both HDTVs and posting messages in forums, so I apologize in advance for my lack of knowledge and/or for posting this message in the wrong thread. But I need your help before I plunk down a wad of hard-earned $ on a new TV.

CNET and other reviewers originally got my juices flowing with their praise of the XBR1. The rumors of green blobs and lack of 1080p connections for Playstation 3 etc. kept me from buying.

I wanted my first HDTV purchase to be state of the art. So when I heard that the Sony KD-R70XBR2 was coming this fall, I patiently waited. It promised to be bigger, clearer, no blobs, and have the connections missing in the XBR1.

However, after listening to these Sony forums, I am losing my enthusiasm. All I am hearing is that this TV requires complicated adjustment processes that appear to go on endlessly.

Having never had an HDTV, please help me understand the experience I will be getting myself into.

I am willing to spend the money to have my new TV professionally adjusted. Once that is done, will I be able to plop down, grab my remote, and enjoy a good DVD movie, SD or HD broadcast, or play a PS3 or 360 game?..........or will each picture source require a complicated tweaking process to enjoy it each time?

Are all these tweaks you all talk about a Sony thing? Is it a projection TV thing? Do plasmas, DLPs and LCDs require this much effort to enjoy them?

I would like to enjoy the content on my TV without even being aware of the TV itself.

How does the 70" XBR2 stack up to the Sharp 65" Aquos LCD or the Panasonic 65" plasma that sell at Costco for $17000 and $8500 respectively. Why would anyone buy either of those TVs at those prices if this $7000, 70" Sony is supposed to be the latest and the greatest? If price were no object, would you still buy the XBR2?

I want to be a believer but I need help!
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post #284 of 12056 Old 10-04-2006, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmpharmacist View Post

Thanks for posting this, thrang. I'm not a big JVC fan but I'll still be tempted to get an FH97 set because of the pricing, the availability (it's here now), and the cabinet. I thought it looked very nice in the store, which surprised me because I'm not a JVC guy.

So thanks for posting this. My wait will be worth it!

Your welcome

Other than the ongoing problems with the JVC units, the picture appeared really good in my home..but once I saw the XBR in my living room, I was frankly amzed how much better the XBR2 is.

Not sure where you are buying/pricing, but I got a pretty good deal on the XBR2 (and the JVC for that matter) The delta was $1250 to move up to the XBR2, but when you factor in the spare bulb included with the Sony, I'm estimating the difference is about $900 to 1000. Not chump change, but, having seem both in my home environment, worth it (even without calibrating the Sony yet...)
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post #285 of 12056 Old 10-04-2006, 10:52 AM
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I'm looking at some pictures of the XBR2 that people are taking. I'm about to send Sony $500 for an exchange of my green blobed xbr1 to the 60" xbr2. My xbr1 is a 50" and I love it. Except the green blob and green streaks. I look at some of the pics posted of the xbr2 and they don't look anywhere near as good as my xbr1. I even looked at some pics of a 70" xbr2 adn looked at the guy's old mits and the mits looked better. Am I missing something. I wonder if Sony will exchange my 50" xbr1 for a 60" xbr1? I'm gonna make a phone call. I guess my question would be, Is the xbr2 actually an upgrade from the xbr1? That is, if one doesn't care about true 1080p and if there is no green blob issue. Even SD looks ok on my xbr1.
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post #286 of 12056 Old 10-04-2006, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlogle View Post

I'm looking at some pictures of the XBR2 that people are taking. I'm about to send Sony $500 for an exchange of my green blobed xbr1 to the 60" xbr2. My xbr1 is a 50" and I love it. Except the green blob and green streaks. I look at some of the pics posted of the xbr2 and they don't look anywhere near as good as my xbr1. I even looked at some pics of a 70" xbr2 adn looked at the guy's old mits and the mits looked better. Am I missing something. I wonder if Sony will exchange my 50" xbr1 for a 60" xbr1? I'm gonna make a phone call. I guess my question would be, Is the xbr2 actually an upgrade from the xbr1? That is, if one doesn't care about true 1080p and if there is no green blob issue. Even SD looks ok on my xbr1.

It's nearly impossible to take pictures that come close to approximating the resolution and color fidelity of any brand display. There are hundreds of factors that will degrade the image...so take them all with a shakerful of salt
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post #287 of 12056 Old 10-04-2006, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jstenuf View Post

Yes, I am considering putting a speaker stand in front of the tv stand. Something like this possibly: http://www.racksandstands.com/Wood-T...8O-WT0207.html.
I am a little confused by your measurments. It is probably not you because I tend to be a little dense about these things so here goes. If the base shelf is 3 9/16 from the floor and is also 2 1/16 thick isn't the 2 1/16 thickness part of the
3 9/16 distance form the floor?
My big concern is reflections from the floor if the speaker is to close or from the shelf the speaker is sitting on if the speaker is flush with the front of the shelf. Sorry, I have no data on a minimum height from the floor to avoid reflections but I am looking.

Yes the 2 1/16 is part of the 3 9/16. Here are the calcs. These will only make sense if you are looking at the drawings in the manual (surs51u page 6).

The uppercase letters are measurements from the drawings.
The lowercase letters are interim results.

You'll see at one point we get the total width of the both shelves (4 1/8(x))) which I assume to be equal for the top and bottom shelves. Given the design I think this is a pretty good assumption.

15 ½(M) - 14(P) = 1 ½(y) - The height of the pedestal (w/o the shelf).
15 ½(M) - 9 7/8(L) - 1 1/2 (y) = 4 1/8(x) - The thickness of both shelves
4 1/8(x) / 2 = 2 1/16(z) - The thickness of each shelf
1 ½(y) + 2 1/16(z) = 3 9/16(v) - The height of the bottom shelf above floor
3 9/16(v) + 9 7/8(L) = 13 7/16 - The height of the bottom of the top shelf from the floor.

The height of my center speaker is 6" so: 13 7/6 - 6 = 7 7/16 from floor. QED.

And I'm guessing that you don't want to push speaker back into the shelf, especially when it's that close to the top of the space, correct?
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post #288 of 12056 Old 10-04-2006, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyFunBoater View Post

Regarding placement of the center speaker:

Rather than put it below the TV (where the sound would be partially blocked by furniture) or try to mount it on the top of the TV (it's kind of heavy), I was thinking of using the dumbo ear speakers as the center channel. My AV tuner allows a center channel output via RCA jacks, which I assume I can just plug into the XBR2.

Does that make sense? Are the dumbo ears good enough? I've currently got a fairly large Klipsch center speaker, but I'm willing to suffer a little sound quality to make this work.

Thanks for your help!

I thought of using the "dumbo ears" as a center but they are so far apart (and right next to my mains) that i figured it wouldn't be able to easily image in the center, or moving across the center, of the screen?????

I would be most grateful if those audiophiles present would make some comments on this center speaker issue (i.e. in the tv stand, using the dmbo ears).
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post #289 of 12056 Old 10-04-2006, 11:23 AM
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I have a Mits 65831 and bought a backlight from CinemaQuest. Excellent customer service, quick delivery and a high quality product. You need a 6500k Ideal-lume standard bulb for the required ambient lighting environment. I also ordered a remote for on/off, although I have it plugged into my receiver's power so it isn't really needed since I run sound through the receiver, so the light comes on when I power it up. This is my smartest purchase to date, it does wonders for your eyes, and the image actually seems better because of it, all for under $80!

http://www.goestores.com/home.aspx?Merchant=cinemaquestincn

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post #290 of 12056 Old 10-04-2006, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

Your welcome

Other than the ongoing problems with the JVC units, the picture appeared really good in my home..but once I saw the XBR in my living room, I was frankly amzed how much better the XBR2 is.

Not sure where you are buying/pricing, but I got a pretty good deal on the XBR2 (and the JVC for that matter) The delta was $1250 to move up to the XBR2, but when you factor in the spare bulb included with the Sony, I'm estimating the difference is about $900 to 1000. Not chump change, but, having seem both in my home environment, worth it (even without calibrating the Sony yet...)

I preordered from Tweeter so I'm good to go aside from the fact that I still have to wait for my 60" XBR2. Glad to hear that the extra money is worth it!
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post #291 of 12056 Old 10-04-2006, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigD57 View Post

However, after listening to these Sony forums, I am losing my enthusiasm. All I am hearing is that this TV requires complicated adjustment processes that appear to go on endlessly.

Having never had an HDTV, please help me understand the experience I will be getting myself into.

Taking just this part of your question, I think that you may be comparing apples to oranges. I think most people just have an SD set experience, where they bought something, plugged it in, and figured that they were done. With the lower quality of the source material, that probably satisfies most of the general public. Certainly, you could drop in any HDTV and probably get a "wow" factor (over SD), without touching a thing. What you see in any of these forums is that folks are shooting for (rightfully so) tweaking their sets for the optimum picture.

Even your SD set has the basics, and a slider to diddle with them, and so that part of this is nothing new. Most of these sets allow for a much higher level of control, thereby allowing for an even more "fine tuned" result. The problem with HD is that you ARE getting much higher quality source material, and people are expecting (and wanting) that "life like, jump off of the screen" look. Also, those settings would (ideally) vary based upon the source device (i.e. you might have cable, satellite, an HD-DVD player, etc.) So... with ANY of these sets (any vendor, any model), you would find that the recommendation would be to do the proper calibration exercise (whether you perform the do-it-yourself variety, e.g. something like Avia, or go all out and have a professional do the calibration). In short, it's not a "Sony KDS thing", it's simply taking any "out of the box" HDTV, and ensuring that it's been properly adjusted to deliver the "optimum" experience.

All, FWIW.
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post #292 of 12056 Old 10-04-2006, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Serenity View Post

Taking just this part of your question, I think that you may be comparing apples to oranges. I think most people just have an SD set experience, where they bought something, plugged it in, and figured that they were done. With the lower quality of the source material, that probably satisfies most of the general public. Certainly, you could drop in any HDTV and probably get a "wow" factor (over SD), without touching a thing. What you see in any of these forums is that folks are shooting for (rightfully so) tweaking their sets for the optimum picture.

Even your SD set has the basics, and a slider to diddle with them, and so that part of this is nothing new. Most of these sets allow for a much higher level of control, thereby allowing for an even more "fine tuned" result. The problem with HD is that you ARE getting much higher quality source material, and people are expecting (and wanting) that "life like, jump off of the screen" look. Also, those settings would (ideally) vary based upon the source device (i.e. you might have cable, satellite, an HD-DVD player, etc.) So... with ANY of these sets (any vendor, any model), you would find that the recommendation would be to do the proper calibration exercise (whether you perform the do-it-yourself variety, e.g. something like Avia, or go all out and have a professional do the calibration). In short, it's not a "Sony KDS thing", it's simply taking any "out of the box" HDTV, and ensuring that it's been properly adjusted to deliver the "optimum" experience.

All, FWIW.

BigD57, We're all just a little picky about settings, etc. because we tend to be video or audiophiles. 95% of people would be tickled to death with out of the box settings with an XBR2. We're just trying to get the most out of it because we're picky. If you don't want to play with settings, etc just get it ISF calibrated and you'll just spend all of your time enjoying it instead of messing with it.
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post #293 of 12056 Old 10-04-2006, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlpetrozelli View Post

I have a Mits 65831 and bought a backlight from CinemaQuest. Excellent customer service, quick delivery and a high quality product. You need a 6500k Ideal-lume standard bulb for the required ambient lighting environment. I also ordered a remote for on/off, although I have it plugged into my receiver's power so it isn't really needed since I run sound through the receiver, so the light comes on when I power it up. This is my smartest purchase to date, it does wonders for your eyes, and the image actually seems better because of it, all for under $80!

http://www.goestores.com/home.aspx?Merchant=cinemaquestincn

The link is dead.

Thanks,
JM
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post #294 of 12056 Old 10-04-2006, 12:06 PM
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jbug

Here's a link to the Ideal-Lume page on CinemaQuest's main site:

http://www.cinemaquestinc.com/ideal_lume.htm

Be skiing ya,

DSG
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post #295 of 12056 Old 10-04-2006, 12:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BigD57 View Post


However, after listening to these Sony forums, I am losing my enthusiasm. All I am hearing is that this TV requires complicated adjustment processes that appear to go on endlessly.

Having never had an HDTV, please help me understand the experience I will be getting myself into.

You don't have to use those controls to get a pretty good picture, but like it has been said, we are videophiles and love to be in control of our pictures.

Also, it's good that manufacturers are taking some of the controls out of the service menu and putting them in the user menu !

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post #296 of 12056 Old 10-04-2006, 12:12 PM
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Thanks H20Sports, the link now works. Today is such a sleepy day. I'm at work but can't wait to get home. This thread is also putting me to sleep. I'm ready for a tweak threads.
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post #297 of 12056 Old 10-04-2006, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MI_CT View Post

Has anyone been able to compare side by side the Q 006 to the 70" XBR2? I ask because i can get a floor model Q 006 for 6K, maybe less if I wait longer. Im curious which would be a better TV.

Thnks,
MI

If you live near Arlington, Virginia, the Sonystyle store at Fashion Center (aka Pentagon City Mall) has both the 70" XBR2 and the Qualia 006 (new retail price at $9,999.00!) on display running Blu-Ray material. The 006's shinny screen does tend to pickup room reflections more so, but the XBR2's matte finish works a lot better in environments with less light control capabilities.

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post #298 of 12056 Old 10-04-2006, 12:38 PM
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So, what about us Canadians that are interested in buying a 60" XBR2? Mainly me ? It is available in the US right? So how long before Canada gets them you guys think?

And someone post a good quality (over 1024X768) picture of the FRONT of their XBR2 60" please. I need to see something with the speakers. Thanks!
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post #299 of 12056 Old 10-04-2006, 12:56 PM
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Thanks for the backlight replies.
It seems like an easy purchase with big benefits.
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post #300 of 12056 Old 10-04-2006, 01:16 PM
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Note: please don't PM me about what price I got from Tweeter. All I can tell you all is that Tweeter was running a certain % off all TVs and I got them to apply that to the Sony MSRP even though they don't have the TV yet. Others also got that price while the sale was going on.
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Reply Rear Projection Units

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Sony , Sony Bravia Xbr Series Kdl V32xbr2 32 Inch Lcd Hdtv , Lcd Hdtv , Displays
Gear in this thread - V32xbr2 by PriceGrabber.com

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