Official Sony XBR2 (60" & 70") Owner's Thread - Page 17 - AVS Forum
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post #481 of 12054 Old 10-07-2006, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by (Evan) View Post

Does the XBR2 have the option to stretch the sides of a 4:3 image to provide less distortion?

Yep, there are three modes to choose from to fill the screen with 4:3.
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post #482 of 12054 Old 10-07-2006, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by ChromeZombiez View Post

2. things...

1. Are the side speakers on the 60 XBR2 same size of the 60 XBR1? and is it stlyed the same?

2. Some pictures of the 60 XBR2 owners are needed....

You wanna picture of me? Awwww....

full_frontal.jpg
twin_view.jpg
whoa_1080p.jpg
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post #483 of 12054 Old 10-07-2006, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by audiomixer View Post

And more talk about PQ!

I bumbled through AVIA and nothing looked amiss, most settings were spot-on (I did note about 10 pixel overscan top and bottom). Blacks are very black, but maybe some crush?? in some feeds like HBO. As I said, ESPN HD is about the best I can imagine. Batman Begins SD on the Tosh HD DVD was excellent. SD really varies--some looks really good. CBS college football was very bad, BUT it (and most if not all bad SD) looks VERY good in the twin view size. The twin view is pretty cool and I think I'll use it alot with crappy feeds, esp. given how close we sit and given the fact that the twin images are 2" larger on diagonal than our previous 27" crt

Now I am no videophile and this is my first hdtv, so ymmv. More experienced folks-- please put it straight.
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post #484 of 12054 Old 10-07-2006, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by toofargone View Post

Wow--no hdcp error? Do you happen to know the soft/firmware versions of SARA and hdcp on your 8300 from the diagnostic screens? I haven't found anyone yet (haven't searched exhaustively tho) that has had this work, but from what I read it requires hdcp v.1.1 or better and SARA ???? v. 1.88 or better and/or some ???? firmware 2.4 or better. To access the diag. screen hold select on the STB (not remote) until mail icon flashes then press info. Use the page up button on the remote to advance pages.

And that is bizarre that we both only find 7 channels. I am going to try to hook cable from the wall directly into the "cable in" on the Sony and see what happens. I don't really want to use a splitter long-term however.

I just saw your message. but unfortunately I'm on my way out the door. I will check tomorrow and get back to you. What I can tell you is that I just picked up the SA 8300HD from cablevision so I'm assuming that it has the latest and greatest firmware (unless it had been sitting in their inventory for some time). I also know second hand (through my local audio store) that they have other customers using the SA 8300HD and passing HDMI through a receiver to a HDTV that accepts HDMI. Anyone else on this thread with a similar successful setup????
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post #485 of 12054 Old 10-07-2006, 05:49 PM
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It's finally my turn! Yay, me!

Got it today. Immediately took the ears off and overrode pretty much every factory setting. Now looks fantastic. Here are a few notes to add to those posted by others:

+ Convergence is much better than I expected from a fixed raster multichip projection display. No worse than a pixel anywhere, maybe a pixel and a half in the very corners.
+ Projection seems correctly oriented, no obvious tilt or keystone.
+ Tons of options are A Good Thing(tm).
- Slight hourglass/pincushion for 4:3 is annoying, but ultimately ignorable. Still, I'd expect better for $7k.
- Only one s-video input. Not the end of the world, but slightly annoying with both an SD TiVo and an old VCR that sees some infrequent use. Oh well, screw the VCR.
- Menu operation can be rather slow. What's with that?
- Edit: I used to say here that I thought SD content was not very good because the scaler relied too much on bilinear filtering to upconvert. On default settings, that is true. However, now that I've done basic calibration of the picture and turned on CineMotion for 480i content (WHY is it off by default?!?), I'm finding SD material is looking imuch better. In fact, the the upconversion to 1080p really is very good. Yes, It's still a toonce too fuzzy, but the smoothing of jaggy lines and curves even on very dirty analog SD content is remarkable, indicating to me that it has a really good deinterlacer on board.
- I don't understand why mode changes are so klunky on a non-CRT display. It's not like you have electron guns and electromagnets to re-configure. *shrug*
- Overscan, rrr. The have an option to increase overscan. Why no option to decrease it? Duh. The loss of 1:1 pixels might be okay in some cases.

I'm pretty thrilled, all in all. Worth the hassles I've experienced? Well, maybe not. Worth the purchase? Totally.

Here's a picture of my set on a BDI Icon 9428, in case anyone else is considering that stand. What you can't see is that the pedestal is hanging about 3/4" off the back, but that's not really a problem. Note that the viewing position for this TV is from a fairly tall king size bed, so the tallness of the stand (23") is appropriate. You can actually see the edge of the bed at the very bottom. Sorry, the picture is grainy due to low lighting conditions. I didn't want to use a flash. That's also why the image is blown out, but I'm assuming people have already had their fill of close-ups of the screen anyway.



The TV is pretty far from the wall, so no, it doesn't actually cover up half of the doorways the way it appears to.
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post #486 of 12054 Old 10-07-2006, 06:09 PM
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Can someone tell me the exact width of the 70" with the speakers removed? Sony shows 68.6" on their website, but the on-line manual says 67.5". Reason I ask is that the wall unit I have is only 68.25" wide.

If it really is 67.5" W, I have a good excuse to buy the 70.

jk
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post #487 of 12054 Old 10-07-2006, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AikenGhoti View Post

It's finally my turn! Yay, me!

Yay, AikenG! A $7k bedroom tv? Dude, you must be the man, man.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AikenGhoti View Post

- Menu operation can be rather slow. What's with that?

I really liked your great overview. The only thing that I puzzled me was menu operation. All menu operations were instantaneous for me. Changing hdmi inputs and HD channels, however, are ire-risingly slow.

Congrats!
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post #488 of 12054 Old 10-07-2006, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AikenGhoti View Post

It's finally my turn! Yay, me!

+ Convergence is much better than I expected from a fixed raster multichip projection display. No worse than a pixel anywhere, maybe a pixel and a half in the very corners
- I don't understand why mode changes are so klunky on a non-CRT display. It's not like you have electron guns and electromagnets to re-configure. *shrug*
- Overscan, rrr. The have an option to increase overscan. Why no option to decrease it? Duh. The loss of 1:1 pixels might be okay in some cases.

That's about the same divergence I'm seeing, red's bending down one, maybe two pixels at the sides.

Since I feed from an external scaler, I'm not noticing the mode changes, but I'd guess it is the internal scaler circuitry adjusting, I see somewhat the same thing with the external scaler.

How much overscan are you seeing? As I said above, I'm getting 6-8% on the horizontal, 4-5% on vertical. Is that what you are getting? The reason you can't correct it in the settings is I don't think it is digital, I'm pretty sure it's optical. I'm torn right now on whether to kick in some underscan and lose 1:1, or live with some missing picture.

But it really is a great picture, isn't it!?

eric

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post #489 of 12054 Old 10-07-2006, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gymbow View Post

Can someone tell me the exact width of the 70" with the speakers removed? Sony shows 68.6" on their website, but the on-line manual says 67.5". Reason I ask is that the wall unit I have is only 68.25" wide.

If it really is 67.5" W, I have a good excuse to buy the 70.

jk

I had 68", you'll be fine. I did leave off the trim pieces, but the clear plastic pieces stay unless you want to try taking off the bezel. I think with the trim off, it probably comes in about 67"-67.25". I actually had to angle it in and rotate it because of a couple of front pieces on my cabinet, but we made it.

eric

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post #490 of 12054 Old 10-07-2006, 07:30 PM
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I'm going to drive a couple hundred miles to pick-up the KDS-R70XBR2. Does anyone have the dimensions for the box it comes in? I don't want to get there and find out my vehicle won't work?

This is my first post so if I've messed up, please be understanding.
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post #491 of 12054 Old 10-07-2006, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by TAGATAYA View Post

KT, I measured 4 cm (as shown in the pics) from each end point, and drew 2 lines to mark where it needed to be cut. I've had quite a bit of cutting experience with a dremel, and did it free hand using several heavy duty cutting wheels (no. 420) at high speed (by sure to use eye protection and face mask if you try this). You need to be patient, steady, and cut right on your line; it takes a while to cut through the aluminum. Be careful as the inside corner meets not to over cut in one direction. (The only caution is that you only get one chance to do it right, so there is a risk involved here and skill with the dremel comes into play; I would test cutting well inside your piece to get a feel it first). Use a wet sandpaper (400 grit) to smooth the edges. The dremel provides a nice cut as you can see in the pictures (but not perfect). I'd advise to try your way of mounting over the cover first to see if that fits the bill. Good Luck.

Thanks for the help.
KT
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post #492 of 12054 Old 10-07-2006, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by KTTV Images View Post

Thanks for the help.
KT


KTTV- are you going to try this? If so, when? I am very thick headed and need to see it, so if you do this, can you take pictures along the way? thnx!!!
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post #493 of 12054 Old 10-07-2006, 08:22 PM
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Looked today and the 70 is on BB.com but it shows as a magnolia exclusive which bites as there is no magnoila even remotely close to me I guess I can hope that the 60 will at least be avail in BB

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post #494 of 12054 Old 10-07-2006, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toofargone View Post

Not sure if this got answered: Nope, no floating lights, no clear strip along the edges. These indicators are at the bottom on the right side.

Thanks toofargone, I appreciate the reply. Good to know, now can't say I'm not disappointed though

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post #495 of 12054 Old 10-07-2006, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by KTTV Images View Post

Hi TAGATAYA.

Thanks for the instruction notes..

My 60 inch is arriving here in 2 hours and I have to decide if i want to remove the 2 side boards and deal with the Dremel later. Otherwise, I have my insert board ready to go.

Here is my question.
Your picture of the TV base and trim piece implies that the swinging door on the Sony -covering the front input jacks - swings up towards the front -like my XBR1 , but is hinged in such a way as to never come forward and hit the trim piece. Is this correct ( if this is not the case the door would would hit the trim piece) ? So put simply -can you open the access door on the front of the XBR2? Also could you comment on what holds the trim piece in place. Is it just sitting on the end frames -not locked in place?

Also could you advise me on what the least expensive (power-size) Dremel is that I would need to make these cuts.

Thanks

KT

KT, yes the front access door opens without interference from the trim piece. also, the trim piece is squeezing the front of the pedestal. The pedestal and the bottom of the front shelf is sandwiched tightly within the trim piece, creating a tight fit. The front of the pedestal is at the edge of the shelf under the trim piece. Also it is not locked into place, but pulling it off would take some effort. Dremel's are somewhere in the neighborhood of $80-$100. I suggest buying a kit that has an assortment of tools that you might find useful for other projects if you decide to buy one. The kit usually has a plastic case to store attachments and the dremel. I find uses for the thing all the time. As for cutting, you just screw a little wheel on a shaft the fits in the dremel head. The cutting wheels wear quickly, and you replace it when it gets too small. They come in a little plastic sleeve and run about $6 for 20 of them.
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post #496 of 12054 Old 10-07-2006, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by RobbinMerritt View Post

TAGATAYA:

From your pictures, it looks like the TV would line up with the sides of the stand if you remove the speakers. Do you intend to leave them on?

Robbin, I originally intended to remove them and then changed my mind and decided to leave them on. I wired an external speaker attachment to the rear of each speaker enclosure so that I could add some rear speakers using the sets amplifier. But, you're right, the TV would line up just about perfect with the ends of the stand without them. Thanks.
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post #497 of 12054 Old 10-07-2006, 09:35 PM
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Bought the 60 today delivery tomorrow will post pics once I get it all hooked up . Been researching for about a year was waiting to see if the sharp 46/52 d62 could compete but given that the 52 is 4.5 k and for that you getting fewer inputs, loss of PIP and personally I think the pic on the sony crushes (personal opinion) the sharp I caved today and picked one up.
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post #498 of 12054 Old 10-07-2006, 09:42 PM
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Anyone know where you can see the 70 in Orange County, CA?
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post #499 of 12054 Old 10-07-2006, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmatch View Post

I'm going to drive a couple hundred miles to pick-up the KDS-R70XBR2. Does anyone have the dimensions for the box it comes in? I don't want to get there and find out my vehicle won't work?

This is my first post so if I've messed up, please be understanding.

The empty's are sitting in my garage. The main piece is 78x50x28, but it sits in a bottom piece, so I'd add a couple inches to all dimensions to be safe. Lots of warnings on the box not to tip it over on its side.

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post #500 of 12054 Old 10-07-2006, 11:46 PM
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Thanks for the dimensional info. Looks like I'll have a TV and the kids will have a fort.
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post #501 of 12054 Old 10-08-2006, 12:09 AM
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Originally Posted by toofargone View Post

Yay, AikenG! A $7k bedroom tv? Dude, you must be the man, man.

Heh, it's acfually because my wife and I basically live in the master bedroom, instead of the family room like normal people do. Otherwise it'd be down there where the cheap TV is. I'm not that rich.

Quote:


The only thing that I puzzled me was menu operation. All menu operations were instantaneous for me.

Going in and out of menus is pretty slow, and changing certain options is extremely slow, to the point where you can get two or three moves queued up without realizing it. Since all changes are live, I'm guessing this is just because it takes a moment to process the change before the next menu input can be read. It's not as big a deal now as it was when I had to fix everything (freaking factory defaults).

I agree, though, that most menus actually are quite fast.
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post #502 of 12054 Old 10-08-2006, 12:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricBergan View Post

I'd guess it is the internal scaler circuitry adjusting, I see somewhat the same thing with the external scaler.

Hmm, it really shouldn't take more than one or two vblanks. I've actually written firmware to switch a scaler between rather different modes before. Usually it's only the display device itself that takes a while to sync, and only if it has to reconfigure electron guns. A digital display like LCoS has no reconfiguring to do, it just reads the output from the scaler. Oh well, no point pondering, it is what it is.

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How much overscan are you seeing? As I said above, I'm getting 6-8% on the horizontal, 4-5% on vertical. Is that what you are getting?

I haven't run an actual test pattern yet, but eyeballing it, I'd say something along those lines. I'm assuming manufacturing tolerances on these units are tighter than typical, so we'll probably all see about the same.

Quote:


The reason you can't correct it in the settings is I don't think it is digital, I'm pretty sure it's optical.

Well, the reason for the overscan is surely optical, but it could be (hackishly) fixed digitally. The increase in overscan in the options is certainly digital. There's no reason why they couldn't have provided a downscale instead of an upscale. Again, though, it is what it is. I've seen worse. It just makes me sad that TV manufacturers are forcing a safe region on HDTV content, even though there isn't supposed to be a need for one.

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But it really is a great picture, isn't it!?

Well, yeah, once you change every single setting in the options.

I especially noticed that several of my 480i/p devices wanted to be on the ITU709 color matrix. Until then, the reds were all rosy/pinky. I guess defaulting to the older color encoding is pragmatic, but you have to know to fix it for newer video signals. I hate to think what clueless people have to live with with these sets.
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post #503 of 12054 Old 10-08-2006, 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by AnthemAVM View Post

Anyone know where you can see the 70 in Orange County, CA?

If you are willing to make the drive, you can see it at the Wilshire Home Theater in Thousand Oaks. The Pacific Sales in Camarillo is going to add it to their floor, so you may check with the Pacific Sales in Irvine or the Tweeter in Newport Beach.

Mitsubishi WD-73738, Yamaha RX-V2700, Sony BDP-S570, 5.1 Surround with PSB Image Series Speakers
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post #504 of 12054 Old 10-08-2006, 12:25 AM
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Interesting observation on the 4:3 pincushion/hourglass problem:

Looking sideways at my screen, I can see that it bows in a little in the middle. If you apply gentle pressure to the middle of your screen (use a cloth!), you can easily double the hourglass effect. Not surprising that the screen bows in, and not surprising what the effect is.

I wonder if we all just need to get our screens made non-concave somehow. Beats me how you'd do that without risking damage, though. Get yourself a pops-a-dent and hope for the best?
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post #505 of 12054 Old 10-08-2006, 12:51 AM
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Football day Sunday on XBR2s!

How is all of this NFL programming looking on your XBR2 sets? I'm wondering how FOX'S 720p, NBC's 1080i, CBS's 1080i and ESPN's 720p all looks upconverted to 1080p?

Thanks!

Movies must be OAR, sports and movies must also have 5.1 audio, No EE or NO SALE!
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post #506 of 12054 Old 10-08-2006, 02:00 AM
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Originally Posted by EricBergan View Post

How much overscan are you seeing? As I said above, I'm getting 6-8% on the horizontal, 4-5% on vertical.

Okay, I fired up DVE. If you mean left+right and top+bottom, then yes, that's close to what I get. Almost exactly 2.5% on either side, and about 3% each for top and bottom. The variations are probably due to our players more than anything else. Now that I look at the 1.78:1 geometry test, the circle looks a little tall. That's probably why my vertical overscan was greater than yours.

It's probably meant to be 2.5% overscan on every side (5% total), which is not bad for TVs that have overscan. Of course, this TV really shouldn't HAVE overscan, but oh well. I guess they just wanted to avoid returns of XBR2s wherein the light engines weren't aimed quite right.
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post #507 of 12054 Old 10-08-2006, 02:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Thebarnman View Post

Football day Sunday on XBR2s!

How is all of this NFL programming looking on your XBR2 sets? I'm wondering how FOX'S 720p, NBC's 1080i, CBS's 1080i and ESPN's 720p all looks upconverted to 1080p?

I'm not a sports guy, but I have to admit that today, after hooking this set up and seeing football, I wish I were.

Mind you, either Comcast or NBC was way overcompressing the college football that was on today. CBS looked better. They both looked fabulous as long as the image was static, but pans were painful to watch.

I actually have watched a few games here and there, and I could swear the quality was a lot better before. Maybe it's a college vs. Superbowl thing.

There was something on Fox, I forget what, but it looked good.
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post #508 of 12054 Old 10-08-2006, 03:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AikenGhoti View Post

I'm not a sports guy, but I have to admit that today, after hooking this set up and seeing football, I wish I were.

Mind you, either Comcast or NBC was way overcompressing the college football that was on today. CBS looked better. They both looked fabulous as long as the image was static, but pans were painful to watch.

I actually have watched a few games here and there, and I could swear the quality was a lot better before. Maybe it's a college vs. Superbowl thing.

There was something on Fox, I forget what, but it looked good.

On my Sharp LCD FP all HD Games having been playing perfect especially CBS and ESPN, TNT Sports with CBS being the best but the one channel I am having a similar challenge with is NBC HD Football during normal views it's close to perfect but once NBC pans it has issues that I see on no other HD Channels and I've been viewing mine for 9 months but something is amiss with NBC HD Football - no other stations on my Sharp has panning issues whatsoever yet when I watch their College or Sunday Night the pans present it while I have no other channels replicating the event. My Sharp is slower than new ones at 12ms but I have no motion problems doing X360 or other channels since a very slight issue during the Winter Olympics with downhills but even then were very slight - now I think about it the Winter Olympics were NBC HD I believe.

As an SXRD has great response times I would put the onus on NBC HD and compression - someone's cheating as there is no way that should occur on a new SXRD and the panning issue does not replicate on any other channel with my set and yours is much faster.

Samsung 65F8000, 60D8000, 40HU6350, Panasonic 50E60 LCD's
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post #509 of 12054 Old 10-08-2006, 03:52 AM
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Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post

As an SXRD has great response times I would put the onus on NBC HD and compression - someone's cheating as there is no way that should occur on a new SXRD and the panning issue does not replicate on any other channel with my set and yours is much faster.

Of course. I didn't even consider that it was the TV. I know where big blocky motion artifacts come from.

The only fault in the TV is that the default picture settings are all set to things that highlight the ringing and blocking that are already in the signal.
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post #510 of 12054 Old 10-08-2006, 07:32 AM
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Football day Sunday on XBR2s!

How is all of this NFL programming looking on your XBR2 sets? I'm wondering how FOX'S 720p, NBC's 1080i, CBS's 1080i and ESPN's 720p all looks upconverted to 1080p?

Thanks!

Last night I watched Tennessee/Georgia (ESPN) DTV and compared with Oregon/Cal OTA on ABC.

Both were fantastic on the 60 XBR2. However, the OTA was clearly superior, vivid and striking.

Can't wait for NFL today.

I havn't tweaked my set yet. The grass on football on some fields seemed a little too green.

No folks, I doubt if this is any concern.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Oops! I left out CBS and NBC. I watched Florida on Georgia OTA CBS. Wow!

I also saw some Notre Dame Stanford OTA. Magnificent.
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